Mom with BPD - navigating relationship and understanding from my family

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hi everyone. This is my first time posting here, or anywhere really, about this topic. My mother spoke with a therapist for a short time in the past and the therapist started talking about a BPD diagnosis and seeing a psychiatrist. That's when she stopped therapy. Perhaps they actually gave her the diagnosis and she was too ashamed of the stigma to be honest with me - but regardless that's her business on what she wants to share with me.

I'm now 35 and have started a family of my own with my husband. We have a 3 year old and 6 month old. My mom is currently in her 7th marriage, which is in the process of ending right now following the same pattern as the other relationships. A pattern she is unable to see. As a child/younger adult I used to always see her as the victim in these situations as if everything was happening to her. And maybe in some ways she still is a victim suffering from BPD...but now I can see her role and behaviors and it's really in some ways made me angry or emotional. I internalize a lot of my thoughts and emotions. It's been my coping strategy, which I realize isn't always the best strategy. Regardless of my mother's behaviors and mental illness I've decided to accept her as is, try to see and recognize what is a result of her disorder, and have a relationship with her. My husband struggles because he thinks I should confront her on the things she does wrong. I confront the big issues but I know me confronting her constantly will not change her behavior or disorder - only accepting her needs herself and going to treatment will. I think he gets irritated at what he calls my "zen" reaction but it's the only way I know how to separate myself from it and have a happy healthy family myself but still love her and have a relationship with her. I need to learn how to navigate that while still respecting his feelings and him not being able to accept it as much as I can. It's a different lens now having children who may be impacted by her behavior...and also now as a parent has stirred up emotions in me about how I raise my children compared to things she did during my childhood.

Anyway - I'm not entirely sure of the point of this post...I suppose it's just my first step in  talking about some of these things "out loud" with others who may understand or relate.

[cle216]

Hi everyone. This is my first time posting here, or anywhere really, about this topic. My mother spoke with a therapist for a short time in the past and the therapist started talking about a BPD diagnosis and seeing a psychiatrist. That's when she stopped therapy. Perhaps they actually gave her the diagnosis and she was too ashamed of the stigma to be honest with me - but regardless that's her business on what she wants to share with me.

I'm now 35 and have started a family of my own with my husband. We have a 3 year old and 6 month old. My mom is currently in her 7th marriage, which is in the process of ending right now following the same pattern as the other relationships. A pattern she is unable to see. As a child/younger adult I used to always see her as the victim in these situations as if everything was happening to her. And maybe in some ways she still is a victim suffering from BPD...but now I can see her role and behaviors and it's really in some ways made me angry or emotional. I internalize a lot of my thoughts and emotions. It's been my coping strategy, which I realize isn't always the best strategy. Regardless of my mother's behaviors and mental illness I've decided to accept her as is, try to see and recognize what is a result of her disorder, and have a relationship with her. My husband struggles because he thinks I should confront her on the things she does wrong. I confront the big issues but I know me confronting her constantly will not change her behavior or disorder - only accepting her needs herself and going to treatment will. I think he gets irritated at what he calls my "zen" reaction but it's the only way I know how to separate myself from it and have a happy healthy family myself but still love her and have a relationship with her. I need to learn how to navigate that while still respecting his feelings and him not being able to accept it as much as I can. It's a different lens now having children who may be impacted by her behavior...and also now as a parent has stirred up emotions in me about how I raise my children compared to things she did during my childhood.

Anyway - I'm not entirely sure of the point of this post...I suppose it's just my first step in  talking about some of these things "out loud" with others who may understand or relate.

[Harri]

Hi cle216 and welcome. 

I think you will see you have landed in a good place to talk about your relationship with your mom, your own recovery and how you can navigate a healthy relationship while dealing with your own feelings and considering your husbands.

Having your own kids definitely does change the picture.   I do not have kids of my own but many posters here do and have had to figure this stuff out too so you are not alone. 

It sounds like you are doing well managing your own emotions.  Can you describe this "zen state" that your husband talks about?   I agree that calling her on everything is not going to be helpful.  a lot of the changes have to occur with us and how we respond and handle certain things.  How do you handle current difficulties and what sort of things do you choose to let go?  The more detail we have the better we will be able to help you trouble shoot if necessary.

Again, I am glad you are here.  I hope you read and settle in.   Jump into other posts and ask questions.  We also have a Lessons section listed at the top of the board you may want to look through.

[Kwamina]

Hi cle26

I would like to join Harri in welcoming you to our online community

Yeah I can definitely see how having your own kids now could change your perspective and by contrast really make you see how dysfunctional your mother's behavior was/is.

When your mother saw that therapist in the past, what was the reason she went there in the first place? Do you feel like there are any negative aspects of her own behavior that your mother acknowledges at all?

Since you have a family of your own now, a husband and two kids, I think it's even more important to have firm boundaries with your mother. It's clear that in spite of everything that has happened, you do care about your mother very much and want to have a relationship with her. The tools and resources on this site can help you with that, while also help you put boundaries in place and protect yourself and your own family.

The Board Parrot

[cle216]

Hi Harri! Thanks so much for your welcoming message.

It sounds like you are doing well managing your own emotions.  Can you describe this "zen state" that your husband talks about?   I agree that calling her on everything is not going to be helpful.  a lot of the changes have to occur with us and how we respond and handle certain things.  How do you handle current difficulties and what sort of things do you choose to let go?  The more detail we have the better we will be able to help you trouble shoot if necessary.

My husband calls my "zen state" when I don't really show a lot of emotion or anger when my mother does something that could be hurtful or upsetting. It seems to bother him that I don't get more emotional about it. It's a coping strategy for me, which maybe isn't always good. But I describe it as an emotional shield or filter to what I allow to come through. If I allowed myself to get emotional about everything she ever did or said, I would be a complete wreck. It would consume me. I've made a decision to just not let it in, to not take it personal, and to look at it as her disorder. Something she can't control and really her loss if she decides to last minute cancel plans, not be around when her grandchildren are born, or not visit for months. I cannot and will not guilt her into being around. I want her there because she wants to be. The difficult part for him, which I understand, is that when she is in crisis mode, she suddenly wants to frequently be around us and visit until she finds a relationship and other things that occupy her time, we suddenly don't see her until the next holiday. I completely understand why he struggles with this. I do too, I just respond to it differently.

At times I do break down a bit and allow myself to be angry or cry. I'm not a complete robot about it. As I mentioned in my original post, I've had a flood of all new emotions more recently as I raise my own children. Things I never realized were wrong have suddenly come to light for me which has been a strange experience to be upset or hurt about something that happened 30 years ago. As a child, I used to do a lot of reading to escape, would spend entire days out in the neighborhood with friends, and did a lot of journaling or poetry. I didn't know what was wrong or have a label for it at that time, but new something didn't feel good or right. I'm really open to hearing if anyone here has better or different coping strategies. But I have to think about what I can control and for me, it's my expectations and my reaction to her behavior. In many ways, I'm thankful that I've still learned a lot from her on how to mother...for me it was a lot of examples that I will not do because I know how it felt as a child or now as an adult to process it.

[cle216]

Thanks for the warm welcome Kwamina!  

When your mother saw that therapist in the past, what was the reason she went there in the first place? Do you feel like there are any negative aspects of her own behavior that your mother acknowledges at all?

My mother originally saw the therapist following the break down of her 6th marriage. She was relying on me a lot to process the situation. The role reversal happens often with us, and she does not have friends to go to. I want to support her but it becomes draining and now that my perspective has shifted from seeing her responsibility in these situations she gets into, it is becoming more difficult to be empathetic. So I encouraged her to talk to a therapist to help her see the patterns she was repeatedly following, leading her to relationships and marriages she could have avoided. I don't think she truly acknowledges her role in these situations. When she seems to approach acknowledging her behavior she includes a lot of negative self-talk and name calling toward herself..."I'm nuts, I'm crazy. I know something is wrong with me" paired with tears and almost a manic sort of state...then the natural reaction of people observing it is to soothe her or talk about the positive things about her. Often when something happens, she more often goes on attack about the other person. They must be too sensitive or whatever her perception is. She does a lot of this talk about my sister who has really distanced herself from my mother.

Since you have a family of your own now, a husband and two kids, I think it's even more important to have firm boundaries with your mother. It's clear that in spite of everything that has happened, you do care about your mother very much and want to have a relationship with her. The tools and resources on this site can help you with that, while also help you put boundaries in place and protect yourself and your own family.

Definitely an excellent point. I want my husband to understand that not having a relationship with my mother isn't an option for me, but I need to find the balance in respecting his feelings too and the valid points he makes. I just don't want him to start avoiding time with her creating more problems. My husband is an only child and his parents are extremely supportive and involved. It was actually a bit overwhelming for me initially, and sometimes still is, but I do appreciate it. I've had to remind him that having such involved parents isn't the norm either, so we have both had to find an understanding. My father has an attachment disorder so I had a very different upbringing than my husband and my parents involvement is very different than his. Setting boundaries and confronting things is uncomfortable for me, but I know I need to grow and do what is best now for my family. I'm really thankful for this site and have started looking at the resources and the book recommendations. Thanks so much for your feedback.

[Panda39]

Hi cle216,

I'd like to join the others and say welcome! 

What I'm hearing in your post is that you are arriving here with some tools already in your tool belt.  The biggest being Radical Acceptance. It sounds like you can accept that your mom is who she is and is going to do, believe, say...what's she's going to do, believe, say etc.  This is good because accepting she is who she is will help allow you to take things less personally.  Recognizing that much of what she does or says is about her and not you.

More on Radical Acceptance (I love sharing the information from around here  )  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

I come at BPD from another angle my Partner has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) so I can also relate to your husband, I have been where he is.  He loves you and he wants to control the situation with your mother so she can't hurt you or the family you have together. 

One tool your husband has is an outside perspective.  You have been raised in this dysfucntional relationship with your mom and sometimes that can muddy the waters.  He may have a clearer view sometimes.

I arrived here one angry Panda because of my desire to control my partner's ex, my partner and even his children who were being used as pawns.  I wanted to control everything and everyone (we also did not know about BPD back then).  It took me awhile to learn that the only people we truly control is ourselves.  Once I learned that then I realized I could create change. 

What's great about this site is that we learn what we can change (us) and when we make those changes like ripples in water those changes spread.  Your radical acceptance of your mother vs your husband's desire to control/vent/argue can demonstrate what that kind of change can do.  Your radical acceptance likely  leads to less discomfort for you and less conflict where your husband is likely more uncomfortable/stressed by the situation with your mother and his approach would likely escalate conflict.

The other thing I hear in your post is compassion for your mom in your conscious choice to have a relationship with her.  I agree with Kawmina that because of that choice then boundaries will play a big part in what you do going forward.

You mentioned doing some reading here are a few books that you might find informative...

Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality by Randi Kreger

Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder: A Family Guide for Healing and Change by Valerie Porr

Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship by Christine Ann Lawson

What do you have most difficulty with in terms of your mom's behaviors?

Take Care,
Panda39

[cle216]

Hi Panda39! 

I'm thankful for your insight as the person not directly related to the person with BPD. I've been open and understanding of my husband's point of view, but I admit there are times when I feel defensive.

When you mention radical acceptance, that is definitely an "a-ha" feeling. Hits the nail on the head. I've saved the link and look forward to reading more about it. It's nice to have the information to help normalize and express the things I know I feel but can't always find the words for. I really appreciate the information.

As far as your relationship with your husband and dealing with his ex...what are some things you found helpful for you to come to a level of understanding? Or on the flip side, were their things your partner said that were not helpful to you? How did you learn how to cope with something that you had little control or say over? I've explained my perspective to my husband about recognizing what I can control...he sees my logic but he still has a very hard time separating the logic from his emotions. I suppose this takes time and you make an excellent point about his perspective and wanting to protect my feelings too which is exactly things he has mentioned. It gives me hope to hear you have made progress with this. 

What's great about this site is that we learn what we can change (us) and when we make those changes like ripples in water those changes spread.  Your radical acceptance of your mother vs your husband's desire to control/vent/argue can demonstrate what that kind of change can do.  Your radical acceptance likely  leads to less discomfort for you and less conflict where your husband is likely more uncomfortable/stressed by the situation with your mother and his approach would likely escalate conflict.

This statement above, it's like you're in my head   but seriously, yes yes yes. I do take on the discomfort for myself to avoid conflict and what I believe is wasting my time creating conflict that won't result in change. But maybe I need to work on that too. I think it translates in to other relationships in my life where I take on discomfort. I need to figure out how to turn the coping strategy off when it isn't helpful.

Thank you for the book recommendations. These are some titles I have come across as I've recently decided to dig in and face this a bit more. I'm glad to hear a recommendation for someone who has been in this situation.

What do you have most difficulty with in terms of your mom's behaviors?

There are a few things I find difficult. And I'm sure I won't find a way to quite express it all. I think one thing is that things that are blatantly obviously hurtful she doesn't see. I struggle with calling her out on it...it's as if you can't see how hurtful it is I don't want to make you feel guilty to fix it. But I recognize there are times where I should be better at telling her how I feel. Then at the same time, knowing it's not intentional helps me not take things personally. I think the other big thing is the same behaviors over and over...not seeing the pattern in her mistakes. Like the relationships/marriages. The pattern is very obvious to me and it becomes hard to be empathetic and understanding...I have to admit I'm starting to feel sad for her, embarrassed for her, and even a little bit angry. Finally, it's the extremes in her perception of people or relationships. One minute she's complaining about her husband and the marriage ending but then she will cancel plans with me and my children last second for him, cancel her plans to babysit, or book a flight to florida when I'm due to give birth. So I've changed my behaviors by really cutting down on asking her to watch the boys unless I'm in an absolute bind. I think as I have children it's just hard to understand how she doesn't just want to be around us more or choose us more. I'm either suffocated by her constant contact and visits when she's in a break up or it's crickets for months.

Thanks for listening and striking up reflection with the questions you asked!

[mutemonkey8]

Hi, CLE216,
I don't have any advice or anything, but I just wanted to say that I can totally relate to your situation.

In many respects, it is so good to come to terms with the fact that it's mom's decisions that have led her to the place she's in. In another respect, it's distressing to realize how I've been trained to rescue her or to see her as the victim. And it's a struggle to learn to consistently put responsibility where it actually lies - with her.

And I can relate with your situation with your husband. It's especially fraught now that I'm digging into the healing process from the trauma of having a BPD mother. I want to talk about the things I'm learning with my wife, but she's so protective of me she has a difficult time not getting angry and judging my parents...when I just need her to listen and witness my process. Luckily, I have a good therapist and found these boards so I don't feel totally alone in it all.

Thanks for writing and sharing your story.

[cle216]

Hi MuteMonkey8,

You are definitely in a very relatable situation. I know it sounds silly (but actually you can probably understand!) that I only recently realized her decisions and behaviors...I totally believed that she was a victim and that she was in relationships with these horrible people abusing her. So I'm not only dealing with her current behavior but processing things that happened so long ago...and it's odd to be frustrated with things that happened so long ago. In addition to having my own children which has given me a new lens on the past, I now work with children in the mental health field and the things I see that we work on or even make CPS calls on...it's a wild experience when I realize that was a part of my "norm". But I can really relate to children loving their parents regardless of those situations...that is something that can be impossible for my coworkers to grasp.

It really helps me to remind myself of my husband's intentions. I know when he is upset he really is upset for me and my pain or the idea of our children being impacted. It just puts me in a situation where I find myself defending my feelings, or lack of reaction to her. I probably need to grow in my understanding of his emotions but he also needs to understand that without coping strategies and acceptance I would not be the person I am today or someone that he would want to be with. My husband and I have great open communication but I find myself having a moment of dread when I have to share something my parents have done or said because I don't always want advice or for him to feel angry toward her...but how could he not, I'm sure his reactions are only normal for someone who had a completely polar opposite childhood. Have you found that since being with your wife that there is now a magnifying glass on things your mother does? Now that you have someone else's feelings to worry about or another person's perspective and life that is impacted by it, I wonder if you also now have to face things you may have been able to pass by before. That has been stressful for me.

Good for you for seeking therapy! My husband has made the suggestion to me before. How did you approach it? How did you describe to your therapist why you are there? I struggle with it so much...I feel like I function fine in my own daily life so the therapy isn't about me. It's about healing. So I suppose I just answered my own question. I'd be interested to hear how you feel it is helping you navigate through things or what type of therapist you are working with.

[mutemonkey8]

I’m SO glad those kids have an advocate in you who can really see things from their perspective!

“without coping strategies and acceptance I would not be the person I am today or someone that he would want to be with.”
Wow, SUCH an important point! Spot on.

Yes, I TOTALLY understand about no longer being able to ignore certain things about mom’s behavior! I have a current example, actually. My mom used to rage at both me and my father equally. Since I became an adult and started setting boundaries, her primary target is my father. They are long divorced but completely enmeshed so they see each other a lot. I often see both of my parents at the same time. My mom, of course, feels totally free to treat him like *&^% in front of me….and now also in front of my wife (welcome to the family!) My wife HATES witnessing it, she hates that my mom gets away with it, and it makes her have strong negative feelings towards my mom (understandably).

Just a month ago, my wife was asking me how it makes me feel to see my dad treated like that, and how I can just seemingly ignore it. I realized yes, this is something I should have strong feelings about, because it is traumatic to witness someone else’s abuse…and I just don’t. (Or, not yet…I believe that I am dissociating in these situations.) I recognize that is damaging *me* on some level to be a party to it.

And I kind of can’t believe I’ve never thought about it! It happens ALL the time! Now that I know I was blind to it, I know that I’m going to have to feel my feelings about it (ugh) and make a change. And that is scary.

I am a huge fan of therapy. It has helped me so much. I started at age 21 and have been going off and on for years - I’m 39 - because I’ve had lots of struggles with my own mental health (eating disorders, major depression, anxiety, etc.) You don’t have to be at rock bottom or even struggling day to day to benefit from therapy. It’s a safe place where you can focus on your own relationships and emotions and get a totally outside perspective. So therapy is most certainly about you! And that’s a good thing!  

When I start with a new therapist (I’ve had probably close to a dozen in all this time) I usually am struggling with something, like depression or anxiety, or maybe just turmoil in my relationship. Or sometimes I just feel like I’m entering a growth/healing period and want support with that. I would say look for someone who’s got some interest in family members of BPD people or at the least someone who has experience treating trauma. The most important thing is to listen to your gut about whether they’re a match for you.

It's been really good "talking with" you today.