Any advice from an attorney to my attorney?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I've posted elsewhere that I finally had enough and can't continue to degrade my health in my relationship with my uBPDw.  I'm having some difficulty explaining things to my attorney, who is probably only doing their job.  She is very aggressive, and the biggest problem is I'm just not comfortable with some of the approaches.  I fully understand my attorney works for me and I have control over my approach, but I'm wondering what can be done to help my attorney understand the situation better.  She of course views my wife and her behavior as "bad" and wants to use it against her.  I've read every book on BPD and understand it is more than that.  I understand it's a condition that has grown since she was sexually abused at a very young age, as well as other environmental and biological factors.  I do still understand that she is capable of making choices, particularly one to get help, but she is the one that chooses not to.

Quick background of my own traumatic three weeks:  19 y/o stepdaughter (I've fathered for 13 years) left for the Navy.  My BPD wife took this extremely bad, and turned it into my fault, starting an episode for her, which eventually led to police call.  My 17 y/o stepdaughter (also been fathering for 13 years) graduated from high school and is preparing to leave home.  A 5 year old my wife and I had been care-taking for (not truly fostering, but she lived with us 99% of the time for two years) has not been here for three weeks (my decision given the toxic situation), but I miss her dearly.  And, my biological 19 y/o daughter told me she was pregnant.  I hired my attorney and started divorce proceedings the day BEFORE all of this happened.  So, on top of my normal emotional roller coaster life with my wife - I've got all of these other life changing events I'm dealing with. 

Here's the thing.  My life is not healthy.  My bio daughter is going to need me to be healthier...my stepdaughters need me to be healthier...I need myself to be healthier.  So - with extreme pain, I'm choosing to walk away (divorce) the women I've been with for 13 years, and who I still desperately love with all my heart.  I just want a peaceful divorce, I want to be fair, I don't want to kick her while she's down.  We're both retired from the military and stayed in our last location...so no family in the area.  My attorney's petition for divorce included having my wife immediately removed from the house.  I've been prepping my wife for the divorce, telling her the opposite:  that I simply want a peaceful, fair process using a mediator to split our assets fairly (no kids involved).  Now, I do understand that I have been codependent in the past and I need to be careful that I don't start trying to do that; but I feel guilt for having told my wife all of this and then possibly filing divorce for cause.

I guess I'm just looking for a way to explain to my lawyer how emotional this decision is, and that I'm not divorcing my wife because I no longer love her, and I don't want to hurt her or make her situation worse.  I also understand that my wife's behavior through this process could dictate a change to my approach, but for now, I really just want this treated like two people that no longer get along. 

[Brian1977]

I've posted elsewhere that I finally had enough and can't continue to degrade my health in my relationship with my uBPDw.  I'm having some difficulty explaining things to my attorney, who is probably only doing their job.  She is very aggressive, and the biggest problem is I'm just not comfortable with some of the approaches.  I fully understand my attorney works for me and I have control over my approach, but I'm wondering what can be done to help my attorney understand the situation better.  She of course views my wife and her behavior as "bad" and wants to use it against her.  I've read every book on BPD and understand it is more than that.  I understand it's a condition that has grown since she was sexually abused at a very young age, as well as other environmental and biological factors.  I do still understand that she is capable of making choices, particularly one to get help, but she is the one that chooses not to.

Quick background of my own traumatic three weeks:  19 y/o stepdaughter (I've fathered for 13 years) left for the Navy.  My BPD wife took this extremely bad, and turned it into my fault, starting an episode for her, which eventually led to police call.  My 17 y/o stepdaughter (also been fathering for 13 years) graduated from high school and is preparing to leave home.  A 5 year old my wife and I had been care-taking for (not truly fostering, but she lived with us 99% of the time for two years) has not been here for three weeks (my decision given the toxic situation), but I miss her dearly.  And, my biological 19 y/o daughter told me she was pregnant.  I hired my attorney and started divorce proceedings the day BEFORE all of this happened.  So, on top of my normal emotional roller coaster life with my wife - I've got all of these other life changing events I'm dealing with. 

Here's the thing.  My life is not healthy.  My bio daughter is going to need me to be healthier...my stepdaughters need me to be healthier...I need myself to be healthier.  So - with extreme pain, I'm choosing to walk away (divorce) the women I've been with for 13 years, and who I still desperately love with all my heart.  I just want a peaceful divorce, I want to be fair, I don't want to kick her while she's down.  We're both retired from the military and stayed in our last location...so no family in the area.  My attorney's petition for divorce included having my wife immediately removed from the house.  I've been prepping my wife for the divorce, telling her the opposite:  that I simply want a peaceful, fair process using a mediator to split our assets fairly (no kids involved).  Now, I do understand that I have been codependent in the past and I need to be careful that I don't start trying to do that; but I feel guilt for having told my wife all of this and then possibly filing divorce for cause.

I guess I'm just looking for a way to explain to my lawyer how emotional this decision is, and that I'm not divorcing my wife because I no longer love her, and I don't want to hurt her or make her situation worse.  I also understand that my wife's behavior through this process could dictate a change to my approach, but for now, I really just want this treated like two people that no longer get along. 

[worriedStepmom]

Wow, you have a lot of stuff going on at once.  That's enough to make anyone overwhelmed.

What is going to happen with the 5-year-old?  Are you intending that she come back to your home after the divorce is final?  Is she permanently with another family now?

Someone told me once that divorce is, by nature adversarial.  That's why there's a "vs" in the name of the court case.  Even so, many, many people who divorce still love their spouses, they just don't see a way to live together anymore.  Just like you.  To do their job, lawyers don't deal with emotion.  Their job is to get you the best possible outcome.

Your wife has domestic violence charges pending because she was violent towards you.  I can't imagine there are many lawyers who wouldn't insist that she vacate the property during the divorce.   The divorce will get contentious, because that's how divorce tends to work.  Which means at some point there is a strong possibility that she will become violent toward you again, because she is incapable of regulating her emotions or behavior.

My lawyer told me once that part of her job was to be the evil bad guy.  If my stbx or someone else was angry about something happening during the divorce proceedings, I should blame it all on her...even if I was the one who suggested or agreed to it.  "I really wanted to do it your way, but my mean old lawyer won't let me."

Your wife made poor choices - to be violent.  Now she has to deal with the consequences of those choices - not being able to leave the state for her child's graduation, and being asked to leave the family home.

It is not your job to protect her from the consequences of her bad decisions.

[livednlearned]

This article (written by attorney for attorneys) might be helpful:

High-conflict Family Law Matters and Personality Disorders

[ForeverDad]

I just replied to one of your other posts.  I advised that you not let her problems become your problems.  She's an adult, she has consequences that she has to own.  You indicated she has more than enough monthly income to find herself a place to live during the divorce.  It's not like she couldn't afford a simple apartment, even if only for 6 to 12 months during the divorce.

[formflier]

Since it doesn't appear there are children you will be arguing over, what are the issues in the divorce?

What is your attorney trying to accomplish for you by "kicking her while she is down"?

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

I guess I'm just looking for a way to explain to my lawyer how emotional this decision is, and that I'm not divorcing my wife because I no longer love her, and I don't want to hurt her or make her situation worse.

I think I get what you're asking for, Brian1977.

What feels assertive to the lawyer feels aggressive to you. Out of love for your wife, you would like to feel that you're approaching this with her best interests in mind. She is ill and you have no desire to see her suffer more than she already does.

Something like that?

Have you run through the contingencies of how each possible approach (perhaps you could brainstorm with people here) could play out?

For example, what happens if you move out and give her a month to find a place. Or, what if you file the papers, outline a safety plan of what will happen in the event of an attack, what you are prepared to do to protect yourself, outcomes for her if that happens.

I think you're asking to outline a plan for how things can work peacefully, with her options and choices and outcomes outlined in advance so she can make those choices.

Is that in the ballpark of what you're looking for?

[Brian1977]

What feels assertive to the lawyer feels aggressive to you. Out of love for your wife, you would like to feel that you're approaching this with her best interests in mind. She is ill and you have no desire to see her suffer more than she already does.

Perfectly stated.

I think you're asking to outline a plan for how things can work peacefully, with her options and choices and outcomes outlined in advance so she can make those choices.

I agree with this as well, and would add that my wife's behavior, while she is fully responsible for her actions, is not black and white.  Where my attorney sees something to use against her and in my favor, I'm not interested in (at least as long as things are being fair; I mean if my wife starts making false accusations and stuff like that than I will certainly use everything available).

Her first divorce has put a fear of God in her about court.  Her ex beat hear, had no job, was an alcoholic, convicted felon, and they had two little girls to fight over.  She gave him way more than she should have because she wanted to settle out of court.  Court terrifies her.  Her ex drug us through custody battles for years, and I recall that she works herself up so bad that she can't even remember what happens in court.  She wouldn't even go to my daughters speeding ticket court, even though I hired an attorney and he had already worked out a deal...she is that terrified.

Basically, where my attorney might see an angle, I still see a very hurting person.  I want to protect myself, and I probably have enough evidence to take everything, but that stuff doesn't mean much to me.  I want to be safe, and I want her to be safe (ultimately want her to get help).

Your responses are so perfect, so helpful, so needed.

[worriedStepmom]

My H's xW is also terrified of court.  She refused to attend the hearing when my H filed for primary custody of their daughter last year and agreed to sign whatever terms he proposed.  My H bent over backwards to be fair, while giving SD the protection that she needed.  (His ex still thinks he is a monster for stealing her child.)

If you were to bring your wife an agreement that was as fair as you think it ought to be, would she sign it, just to avoid court and the anxiety that it brings?  When my H and his ex divorced, they wrote up the entire agreement and filed for divorce once they had agreed.

Or would she avoid all of those conversations, just like she avoided being served, and refuse to engage at all?

Or is it possible that she might stonewall for a long time to help her start to deal with the emotions and then hire a lawyer and start proceedings that you aren't expecting? (This happened to one of our other members.)

Be very candid with your lawyer about what you expect her to do, while understanding that she may act in ways that you don't anticipate.  That will inform your lawyer's strategy.  At the very least, though, she is going to need to leave the house.  It is not a good thing for her to be there when there are pending DV charges.  And, honestly, it's not good for either of your mental health to be living together while a divorce is in process.  It makes it a lot harder to start to heal.

[Brian1977]

Since it doesn't appear there are children you will be arguing over, what are the issues in the divorce?

What is your attorney trying to accomplish for you by "kicking her while she is down"?

Basically removed from the house immediately, she covers attorneys fees, I think just trying to get the most for me...but I'm not asking for that.  I'm only wanting a fair split.

[Brian1977]

At the very least, though, she is going to need to leave the house.  It is not a good thing for her to be there when there are pending DV charges.  And, honestly, it's not good for either of your mental health to be living together while a divorce is in process.  It makes it a lot harder to start to heal.

I don't disagree with this, but it's a tough one for me.  We have planned our daughters high school graduation for months which is in mid June, and the 5 year old we've been raising for two years has a birthday party at the end of June.  I guess that doesn't mean we couldn't work something out for those events, but, I believe they are important events to my wife and the kids.

[ForeverDad]

Brainstorm ways to get the needed end result... you two living separately while the divorce proceeds.  Yes, her having to move out will be very triggering for her.  But the fact remains that you (we presume) are the owner of the house and afterward you will continue ownership.  So she will have to leave sooner or later.  Better to do it sooner, less opportunity for her to flame out again.

It comes down to perceptions.  You have to accept that her moving out is necessary and you're not mean to require it.  She has to accept that moving out sooner is better for everyone.

Here's one idea how to redirect her likely overreaction to the moving news.

"You're already dealing with a DV case in court.  The sooner you live elsewhere - and you know you can easily afford it - the less risk there will be of another incident like that.  So in reality, you finding another place to live, even if only as a transitional residence, will help you to avoid things getting worse than they are now...
Do you want some help finding an acceptable apartment?  Here are names of a couple real estate agents who are familiar with available apartments in the area.

I don't recommend you moving our for a month to give her time to move.  You risk her becoming the spouse who gets declared "in possession" of the home.  And what would you do if at the end of the month she hasn't moved out?  Then you might have less legal standing than you have now since you had moved out, even if only temporarily.

[livednlearned]

Where my attorney sees something to use against her and in my favor, I'm not interested in (at least as long as things are being fair; I mean if my wife starts making false accusations and stuff like that than I will certainly use everything available).

It may take a lot more work on your part if you can be patient -- this is where you might have to dig deep for the "my attorney works for me" thought process. If your attorney is ethical, he or she will not opt for the more expensive, more labor intensive approach, and may not even know what that looks like for you, leaving you to outline how you want things to go. Maybe we can help you think this through together so you can propose what works best for you to your attorney.

One question:

Does the petition have to be filed now? Since you are waiting for this graduation and birthday party to happen, does it make sense to hold? I recognize in your posts something I also felt -- that I had a better sense of my ex's abuse patterns than my lawyer's, or anyone else for that matter. Maybe it's the same for you.

For example, you recognize that your wife is afraid of court, and has current charge hanging over her, and that you have enough documentation and understanding of 911 to feel relatively "safe," if that's the right word for the situation you're in...

That is not insignificant leverage, and the nuance (in my interpretation of your story) is that you recognize she is (in a sense) cornered, a very fearful situation to be in. So in your interpretation of the situation, you feel some semblance of protection, even if a bystander would not necessarily see it that way. You even feel a sense of legal protection, which seems to be relatively rare for men when it comes to DV.

Your lawyer is suggesting, "Let's move the danger out of the house."
You are concerned that removing one danger (her) will create another (she harms herself or harms you with a false allegation).

Something like that?

And some part of you, the part that has been in a state of heightened vigilance about her abuse and dysregulations for the last decade or so, believes the greater danger is to herself than to you.

You are willing to gamble on this because you're still working through conflicted emotions and are not sure you can tolerate the feelings that may follow if she harms herself once she's served.

(If I'm off here, please say so. It will help us better support you to know how you're experiencing your situation.)

The hard part of these marriages and divorces is the two sides of the aggression/victim coin. We may be 80 percent good at predicting when aggressive/abusive behavior will occur. The rest of the time aggression/abuse comes out of left field and we are stunned.

People on this board have seen BPD spouse stun their partners by grabbing hold of the legal system and weaponizing it. I imagine your attorney has seen the same. 

We also see the suffering, victim side -- after you learn about BPD, your definition of victim may encompass even the abusive behaviors. You see her abuse as a byproduct of her illness, sort of rationalizing it. You feel you know the situation better than anyone else, including your lawyer, and others who have been through this -- and you may be right.

With what you are asking (a slower walk to divorce with more options for her), I would suggest making some kind of decision tree/flow chart so you understand the implications of each decision point: what happens to her, what happens to you (including emotions), how exposed you might be legally, what if any legal protections you have to counter her moves, and any safety plans that might need to be activated. I don't know firsthand what a military operation feels like, even so -- that's the metaphor for I exited my marriage and it did seem to minimize the damage.

What you are suggesting, at least it seems, is that your emotions are a factor here. You want to be able to live with your decision knowing you did everything with full awareness, not wanting to inflict harm on her even if she may not feel the same way toward you.

Right track?

[worriedStepmom]

I would suggest making some kind of decision tree/flow chart so you understand the implications of each decision point: what happens to her, what happens to you (including emotions), how exposed you might be legally, what if any legal protections you have to counter her moves, and any safety plans that might need to be activated. I don't know firsthand what a military operation feels like, even so -- that's the metaphor for I exited my marriage and it did seem to minimize the damage.

What you are suggesting, at least it seems, is that your emotions are a factor here. You want to be able to live with your decision knowing you did everything with full awareness, not wanting to inflict harm on her even if she may not feel the same way toward you.

As usual, lnl's posts are excellent.  I just want to add one caveat.

When I divorced (a non-BPD), I found that I twisted myself into knots trying to predict how he would react and continue to manage his emotions.  I saw the same behavior in a friend who divorced a pwNPD, and in my husband as he worked through a custody battle with his BPDex.  We had all been trained that it was our job to help keep them on an even keel - either because we'd be punished (verbal or physical abuse) or because we were terrified they'd try to harm themselves.

It took me a lot of therapy to start letting go of outcomes.  My mantra is to do my best to make decisions that fit my core values, to make genuine amends when I mess up, and to learn from my mistakes.  (SD11's therapist is actually working on this same concept with her - they are currently working for her to define her core values.)  Basically, I own my stuff, and other people own their reactions. 

Having a plan is a WONDERFUL thing.  Having a safety plan is a necessity, especially when you've been the target of violence and are dealing with someone in danger of harming themselves. 

Just be careful that your plan
--centers your well-being (you are not a secondary citizen in your own life)
--doesn't require you to rescue or manage your wife (because you are establishing separate lives)
--and doesn't make you a pretzel trying to predict every one of her reactions (because she is not emotionally stable and her reactions are often irrational)

There's a balance to be had.  Do you have a therapist?  Sometimes they can be a great asset in helping you determine whether you are finding the right balance in your choices.

[zachira]

You sound like a kind caring man. You maybe struggling with seeing your wife in a completely negative light because you are not the kind of person she is, and would never do the kind of things she has done to you. Perhaps you feel that what your attorney is advising you to do is mean and you are not that kind of person. How can you protect yourself from further abuse and worse consequences down the line doing what your attorney recommends while keeping your self image of being a good person intact?

[mart555]

--and doesn't make you a pretzel trying to predict every one of her reactions (because she is not emotionally stable and her reactions are often irrational)

I am having a difficult time with this as well.  I like to predict things so I can plan accordingly.  This is damn impossible with a BPD during a divorce.  "mine" is impossible to predict. She'll sometimes feel powerful and that everything is owed to her.  Other times she wants to abandon the kids.  I'm slowly less and less influenced by this but it is difficult to get out of the old habit of caretaking which I did for 19 years.   I really hate it.  Can't wait for it to be over but sadly it seems like a really long process. 

[livednlearned]

The other thing to keep in mind is that sometimes a crisis turns into an opportunity.

My stepdaughter appears to have BPD traits and having a psychotic episode helped get her in front of services she desperately needed.

It's good to know if your own emotions are a factor in your decision-making because your fears and care taking behaviors can be the exact thing that prevents someone from getting the help they desperately need.

If you have codependent traits, you will not want a loved one to feel feelings that you yourself struggle to feel.

So codependents tend to protect loved ones through rescue - fix - save behaviors that may be more about our fears than them.  

[Brian1977]

Oh my, to all of the previous posts, it’s like you know me already.    Most everything is spot on.  If nothing else, you understand what I’m feeling, as well as why I’m struggling.  Thank you all so I much, I will try to reply to each of you...still learning how to excerpt into my messages.

[Brian1977]

For example, you recognize that your wife is afraid of court, and has current charge hanging over her, and that you have enough documentation and understanding of 911 to feel relatively "safe," if that's the right word for the situation you're in...

Perfectly stated

That is not insignificant leverage, and the nuance (in my interpretation of your story) is that you recognize she is (in a sense) cornered, a very fearful situation to be in. So in your interpretation of the situation, you feel some semblance of protection, even if a bystander would not necessarily see it that way. You even feel a sense of legal protection, which seems to be relatively rare for men when it comes to DV.

Again, perfect.  She is not stupid.  For example, as crazy as she can get, as soon as the phone dialed 911, she cooled off real quick and retaliated to her room.

Your lawyer is suggesting, "Let's move the danger out of the house."
You are concerned that removing one danger (her) will create another (she harms herself or harms you with a false allegation).

Very much so.  I know that if I start this off "fighting" I will get "fighting" in return.  Now, I also understand that me doing the right thing all these years still led to my wife fighting whenever and wherever she was triggered.  So that might not be the logical approach, but it is exactly how I'm feeling.

And some part of you, the part that has been in a state of heightened vigilance about her abuse and dysregulations for the last decade or so, believes the greater danger is to herself than to you.

She has literally been locked in her bedroom (door shut, locked and dresser moved in front of door) for three straight weeks.  I work from home and my office has direct site of the pathway from the room to the kitchen.  She comes out no more than twice a day, sometimes none at all.  I check on her every night...I can pick the lock, but won't push through the dresser.  I just demand that she move or make some kind of noise so I know she is breathing/alive.  Her response is that she has a broken rib and is just doing what her doctor told her to do, which is nonsense.

You are willing to gamble on this because you're still working through conflicted emotions and are not sure you can tolerate the feelings that may follow if she harms herself once she's served.

This is a great point, but one I'm slowly getting frustrated with and starting to move away from.  I think that is in conjunction with me finally putting my needs first.

People on this board have seen BPD spouse stun their partners by grabbing hold of the legal system and weaponizing it. I imagine your attorney has seen the same.

Yes, my attorney has dealt with BPDs.  That is why she wants to start aggressive, even if we back down during the process.  She is afraid of the attacks that will come our way.  She wants to strike while the iron is hot, so to speak.

We also see the suffering, victim side -- after you learn about BPD, your definition of victim may encompass even the abusive behaviors. You see her abuse as a byproduct of her illness, sort of rationalizing it. You feel you know the situation better than anyone else, including your lawyer, and others who have been through this -- and you may be right.

Absolutely...sometimes to the point that I wish had not learned anything about it.  I see a weak and fragile person who in one hand is acting outrageously inappropriate, but in another, a very broken person who is crying out for help (but won't get help)

What you are suggesting, at least it seems, is that your emotions are a factor here. You want to be able to live with your decision knowing you did everything with full awareness, not wanting to inflict harm on her even if she may not feel the same way toward you.

I swear, I feel like we must have been on an identical path.  This entire post has been spot on.  Thank you!

[ForeverDad]

Reciprocity is a concept foreign to a pwBPD who is prone to ranting and raging.  Their moods and feelings are generally centered on self.  You thinking of protecting her from herself, her perceptions and her consequences probably won't give her incentive to reciprocate.  She is in Denial that she could be the cause of problems which is why she's an expert Manipulator, Blamer and Blame Shifter.  That's why self-protection has to be one of your top priorities.

[MeandThee29]

When I divorced (a non-BPD), I found that I twisted myself into knots trying to predict how he would react and continue to manage his emotions.  I saw the same behavior in a friend who divorced a pwNPD, and in my husband as he worked through a custody battle with his BPDex.  We had all been trained that it was our job to help keep them on an even keel - either because we'd be punished (verbal or physical abuse) or because we were terrified they'd try to harm themselves.

It took me a lot of therapy to start letting go of outcomes.  My mantra is to do my best to make decisions that fit my core values, to make genuine amends when I mess up, and to learn from my mistakes.  (SD11's therapist is actually working on this same concept with her - they are currently working for her to define her core values.)  Basically, I own my stuff, and other people own their reactions. 

Yes, I recently came to this point. I have to focus on a reasonable outcome for myself and our young adults and let him handle himself. It was hard place to come to. He can rage, blame, and accuse, but I have to look to my own affairs first. That seems so foreign to me, but it's what divorce is. It's legally dividing and going our own ways. It can't be all what he wants, and it can't be all what I want. I know that.

I'm using my attorney much more than I had hoped, but it's an investment in my future.

[livednlearned]

I know that if I start this off "fighting" I will get "fighting" in return.  Now, I also understand that me doing the right thing all these years still led to my wife fighting whenever and wherever she was triggered.  So that might not be the logical approach, but it is exactly how I'm feeling.

What does not fighting look like to you?

In your mind, what is the best (most realistic) outcome, knowing the realities of how she has responded to extreme stress in the past?

If she does something aggressive (physically and legally) in response to your not-fighting approach, do you feel there are things you can do to protect yourself?

It's good to play these scenarios out by 5-10 steps so you aren't caught off guard.

I gave my ex the house and it took multiple trips to court and a lot of money, plus a real estate lawyer, just to get him to refi so I could sign a quit claim deed and be done. It took years. Looking back, there was no surprise -- he is and was a stonewaller. Winning meant me losing as much as he could make happen, even if it meant he lost too.

In retrospect, I wish I had known what I know now (and learned from friends here). That every legal decision, act, motion should have a consequence for non-compliance. By consequence, I don't mean a punishment. I mean if x happens, then y follows. If x does not happen, then z happens by day/date/year.

A consequence might be, "We respectfully request that stbx find a suitable other home by day/date/year, allowing her time to celebrate the graduation party and birthday party in the marital home as planned. By day/date/year, if furniture and belongings have not been moved, they will be relocated to a storage unit paid out of stbx's settlement monies."

I don't know what a reasonable consequence might be, I'm only pointing out how you can slow walk people through their choices and the implications.

It costs more money for an L to figure out exactly how you want to do things. It took me years to get a handle on how things worked -- you might be a faster learner  

Whatever you choose to do, it's important  to realize that your L is ethically bound to represent your best interests -- you are sort of working against her when you take the teeth out of her approach. She's also not your therapist   so the more you show her you've thought this through and planned for contingencies, the more likely she will believe you understand why your way is going to work as effectively as her's.

[Brian1977]

Kind of an interesting development yesterday.  My uBPDw started packing.  I think she finally is taking this seriously, which makes me feel better that she is at least planning.  I've had a whirlwind of a week, when I was literally having anxiety worried about what is going to happen to her, to an almost numb feeling while she laid in bed for 3 weeks doing nothing, to a little bit of joy that she is packing (peacefully by the way) and leaving.  While I know my wife is a master manipulator, sometimes you just don't know.  I think she's convinced herself that I don't love her anymore.  Our youngest (my stepdaughter) just graduated high school, and twice this weekend my wife talked to her, while crying.  The first time she said I didn't love her anymore, and her daughter stuck up for me by saying "Mom, he's stuck around this long, of course he loves you...but you won't get any help.  Everyone has a breaking point, but this is just as hard for him as it is for you."  That just opened my eyes to some truth...who would have thought my 17 y/o gives the best advice.  Anyways, my daughter also told me that her mother told her yesterday she was leaving and asked if she wanted to go, and she said no, it was better for her to stay with me.  This both shows me how mature my daughter is but also breaks my heart, that a daughter would choose a step-dad over a bio mother (I've raised her for 13 years so not like I'm not her real dad, but still).

Will a BPD seriously lose everything before they even try help, whether they truly believe something is wrong or not?  My initial divorce hearing for temp orders is Wednesday, at which I point I firmly believe the orders will say she has to find another place to live.  I just can't wrap my head around it...even as much as I've studied and learned about BPD.  It reminds me of a speeding ticket a got a few years ago.  The court offered defensive driving to drop the ticket.  I understood the consequences of the ticket, so I took the DD class.  Now, did going through DD mean I was going to become (or even intended to) the perfect driver; no, I just didn't want the ticket.  Is this just another example of how she thinks, or doesn't think?  Is the astigmatism of a diagnosis that scary, or is it a bit of narcissism? 

Anyways, as of right now, I'm both satisfied I'm doing the right thing by walking away, and, I no longer have bad feelings about how it is happening.  I can look back and not feel like a bad person, that I did any thing to be ashamed of, nothing that was "wrong" or with wrong intentions.  My heart and conscious are finally clear.

Ironically, I think my wife woke up because her sister told her some truths.  Her sister knows her very well, and we've spoken often over the years.  Her sister is one that has told me many times why am I even hanging around.  Of course, they're family so she is still there for her.  I'm in TX, she is in TN.  Anyway, her husband is an attorney.  He talked to me the other day, and I explained (two rational people speaking) what was going on, even told him what my wife was up against legally (divorce).  Now this is my wife's brother-in-law, who cares more about the health of his own wife than anything in the world, and I know that his wife will be healthier when she knows her sister (my wife) is OK.  He told me I'm doing the right thing, my attorney is doing the right thing, and not to change anything.  He explained how emotional everything is right now but everyone knows what I've been through.  He said they will make sure my wife is OK, but he wanted me to take care of myself, and if he were my attorney, he would be doing exactly the same thing.  This wasn't some eye opening thing from an attorney, but from someone who would directly benefit in his own marriage the sooner my wife is doing better, it kind of really hit a spot with me, almost a peace came over me. 

The only unresolved question for me, and I know I may never have a rational answer to this, is how/why my wife would think I don't love her.  Leaving her is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.  People have broken up with me before, and that hurts.  My previous marriage ended when my ex- committed adultery...which still hurt.  Nothing compares to choosing to leave someone you don't want to leave because you're health has left you no other options.  I know I need to quit asking myself that question, it just reinforces the sad nature of the BPD mentality.

[Panda39]

Hi Brian,

I'm glad to hear you are finding some peace in your choice.  You have a very wise step daughter who clearly cares for both of her parents and have also received good advice from your BIL.  It's nice to get those types of validation in the real world from people that know you both and know the situation.

Divorce is never easy BPD or no BPD, you want to do what is best for everyone and least painful for everyone but I found that you need to do that from a place where you put your needs first.  It feels weird or selfish because many of us put the needs of the other person before our own.  When we can do what is best for everyone that's great, but when we can't we need to choose ourselves.  Just because we choose ourselves that doesn't mean that we don't care about our spouse...it can be both.  We can choose us and still care about them.

The only unresolved question for me, and I know I may never have a rational answer to this, is how/why my wife would think I don't love her.

There is a lot of black and white thinking that can come along with BPD, heck we all can be black and white thinkers sometimes.  I think this is what this is what some of this is, black and white thinking.  If you aren't with me you are against me.  This has absolutely nothing to do with who you are and how you feel about her.  For people with BPD feelings can often also equal facts.  She feels it therefore it is.  Again this is about her, her feelings, her perceptions and nothing to do with your feelings and your intentions.

Panda39

[mart555]

Anyways, as of right now, I'm both satisfied I'm doing the right thing by walking away, and, I no longer have bad feelings about how it is happening.  I can look back and not feel like a bad person, that I did any thing to be ashamed of, nothing that was "wrong" or with wrong intentions.  My heart and conscious are finally clear.

This feeling will come and go.  Guilt will come back and disappear a few times.  It's weird and you feel like PLEASE READ when it comes back.  I still feel occasional guilt even though she assaulted me at my workplace, was charged,  breached her conditions a month later,  told the kids incredibly mean things (their psychologist and lawyers were troubled when they read the messages).   It does get much better over time. 

The only unresolved question for me, and I know I may never have a rational answer to this, is how/why my wife would think I don't love her.  Leaving her is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.  People have broken up with me before, and that hurts.  My previous marriage ended when my ex- committed adultery...which still hurt.  Nothing compares to choosing to leave someone you don't want to leave because you're health has left you no other options.  I know I need to quit asking myself that question, it just reinforces the sad nature of the BPD mentality.

Might be a case of caring vs loving?  I realized that I stopped loving my wife years ago but I did care for her.  At some point you have to save yourself.

Count yourself lucky, your kid is old enough.  I even consider myself lucky, my kids are 14 and 10.  If they had been younger, the damage their mom could do would have been way worse. 

[worriedStepmom]

I can feel the relief rolling off of you, and I'm so glad for you to get a measure of peace.  Were you able to serve her?  Were the papers the same ones she refused before, or did you have the lawyer change anything?

I want to caution you that divorce is like the worst kind of roller coaster.  There are lots of moments when you feel like everything is going to get better...and then a few moments later it seems like your world is ending.  That's normal, and that's okay.  Over time, things are going to get better.

Your wife's family has promised to help take care of her.  That's great that they love her enough to help - and to reassure you that they will help.  They can help her get settled in a place and help her to be physically safe.  Even with their intervention, your wife may never get help for her emotional issues.  BPD is an ego-syntonic disorder; people with BPD cannot recognize that their actions aren't "normal", because in their reality, the way they are acting IS normal.  People with depression can usually recognize that the way they feel is "off", but people with a personality disorder can't.   I can't even imagine trying to convince myself that everything I think and feel could be "wrong".  I sincerely hope that my stepdaughter's mother becomes healthier, but I accept now that this is unlikely to ever happen.

  This both shows me how mature my daughter is but also breaks my heart, that a daughter would choose a step-dad over a bio mother (I've raised her for 13 years so not like I'm not her real dad, but still).

My stepdaughter once came out of a therapy session in tears.  She walked right past her mom and into my arms for comfort.  I cuddled her close and cried because an 11-year-old couldn't depend on her own mom for emotional support.  My sister told me that as far as SD is concerned, I am her mom.  She's just lucky enough to have two moms and she can pick which one she needs when.

You are dad to SD17.  It sounds like to her, you are an excellent one.

Anyways, as of right now, I'm both satisfied I'm doing the right thing by walking away, and, I no longer have bad feelings about how it is happening.  I can look back and not feel like a bad person, that I did any thing to be ashamed of, nothing that was "wrong" or with wrong intentions.  My heart and conscious are finally clear.

I cannot overstate the value of this.  Write it down and post it somewhere to remind yourself that you did the absolute best that you could for as long as you could.  You tried.  That means something.

[Deb]

Will a BPD seriously lose everything before they even try help, whether they truly believe something is wrong or not?

Sometimes they will. My dBPD sister lost everything and still insists that she is fine. That someone (actually me) turned her older kids and husband against her. It's been 20 years and she still clings to that rather then look at her own behavior. 

[MeandThee29]

Will a BPD seriously lose everything before they even try help, whether they truly believe something is wrong or not?  My initial divorce hearing for temp orders is Wednesday, at which I point I firmly believe the orders will say she has to find another place to live.  I just can't wrap my head around it...even as much as I've studied and learned about BPD.  It reminds me of a speeding ticket a got a few years ago.  The court offered defensive driving to drop the ticket.  I understood the consequences of the ticket, so I took the DD class.  Now, did going through DD mean I was going to become (or even intended to) the perfect driver; no, I just didn't want the ticket.  Is this just another example of how she thinks, or doesn't think?  Is the astigmatism of a diagnosis that scary, or is it a bit of narcissism? 

The only unresolved question for me, and I know I may never have a rational answer to this, is how/why my wife would think I don't love her.  Leaving her is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.  People have broken up with me before, and that hurts.  My previous marriage ended when my ex- committed adultery...which still hurt.  Nothing compares to choosing to leave someone you don't want to leave because you're health has left you no other options.  I know I need to quit asking myself that question, it just reinforces the sad nature of the BPD mentality.

You can't reason it out. When I have troubles in my thinking or life issues, I go for help. I talk to a wise friend or see a professional. Through this I've seen a therapist, a life coach, and now am involved in a 12-step group that gives me the group support I need from people that get it. I want to get better and turn this into better chapters ahead. I stumble at times, but I go to work, keep up with my affairs, and do things with friends and family. It doesn't dominate my life anymore.

This morning I read a few chapters from a book (Les Carter's "When Pleasing You Is Killing Me") that didn't do much for me several months ago. Today it was meaningful to me because I understand more of my part in this. I helped me see some of the issues I've had at work in a new light too. So it's a growth process.

In contrast, a person with disordered thinking doesn't see the problem and won't get the help. Whether they initiate it or not, divorce deregulates them. They may go into a spiral. They may believe can get rid of their partner that is causing problems and feel better. Maybe they find someone new and start over. But unless you deal with the core issues, it won't be better. My therapist has emphasized over-and-over that you have to face your problems and situations you've created to work through solutions.

[Brian1977]

I can feel the relief rolling off of you, and I'm so glad for you to get a measure of peace.  Were you able to serve her?  Were the papers the same ones she refused before, or did you have the lawyer change anything?

We did not change anything.  I tried my hardest to get my wife to "wake up" from her three week state of lying in bed.  I do believe that after speaking with my BIL, my wife's sister must have given her some advice that she had better start waking up.  She's not been kicked out of the house, but I think realizes that is inevitable...or she is leaving by choice.  Server comes one last time today, we'll see if she accepts it.  If not, TX has a way to file that we made three attempts then the court will simply appoint someone to look out for her during the pretrial orders.  From both my lawyer, as well as my BIL, we left it as is because they all know that crazy accusations against me may surface at anytime, so better to have those included and we can always lay off the consequences as we mediate division of property.  I feel good with that.

I can't thank everyone who has followed my posts.  There are times I am just at such a loss.  The toughest decisions in my life are the ones where I don't know what is right and what is wrong.  I've had to make very hard decisions in the past, but I knew it was the right thing to do; so I did it rather easily.  In this life with my BPDw, there are all  kinds of "I just don't know what is right" and that is my biggest struggle.  Starting to come around on that.

[livednlearned]

Will a BPD seriously lose everything before they even try help, whether they truly believe something is wrong or not?

She hasn't learned to attend to her own feelings, so she expects others to make her bad feelings go away. Likely, she was relying on you (and others) to make herself feel worthy, and now that it's clear you cannot do this, she blames you (and others) for her feelings of low self worth.

If, in her mind, you are to blame then it makes no sense for her to get help because someone else other than her is the cause of her problems.

She has used physical aggression and abuse to (dysfunctionally) get a need met. From what you've described, she is somewhat boxed in because she fears court. Without learning other skills to deal with emotional pain, she literally has no other way to cope other than to hole up in her room.

Has she self-harmed in the past? What did she do when her first marriage ended?

[Brian1977]

Has she self-harmed in the past?

Not that I'm aware of, but it's possible she has over medicated.  It's hard to tell when her emotions are just raging verse Xanax or Klonopin OD.