she broke up today but doesn't want me to tell others about her

[truthbeknown]

My gf just broke up with me today. I'm basically numb.  I am sort've relieved because I have been divorced from someone with BPD and didn't want to go down that path again.  But still its hard because I too love hard and give up a lot to make things work.  What's so strange is that she told me that all her relationships have ended either around her birthday or her ex's birthdays.  My birthday was in May and she picked a fight with me before my birthday and we weren't even talking on my bday.  She charmed me back in (because I wanted her too!) and then dropped me even harder this time.  That feels more like NPD then BPD but who knows. 

The strangest comment was at the end she said, "I hope you don't tell everyone or people that you had this ex that was crazy and that's why things didn't work out."   Here she was destroying our relationship but she is more concerned about what i'm going to tell others about her rather then realize what she is doing.    So because I didn't know what to say and was still in the mode of trying to comfort her even though she is breaking up with me (mostly because I see past what she is doing and know enough to know she is hurting) I said, "i'll just tell my friends that we are taking a break to work on ourselves and if its meant to be I'm sure we'll get back together and if not then no hard feelings."    She liked this and was teary eyed and said, "why couldn't you be like this before I broke up with you?"  I actually was sensing that she was switching back into the gf I knew part of her personality so I joked with her, "well (her friend) says you're stubborn so I guess once you decide to do something you think you can't undo it?"   She said,  "well I didn't know you were going to be so nice today."   Meanwhile, I asked her about something she gave me that was special to her and asked if she wanted it back.  She told me to keep it. Also I asked her about something that I had given her and she told me she still has it she just moved it somewhere else (it used to be besides her bed).  So that made me realize that she had made this decision before today and today was just the announcement day. 

I know I couldn't give her what she needed or wanted which was to not ever get upset at her.  Her childhood wound.   She blame transferred everything onto me and said she had to break up with me because of my wounds and inability to be present in the relationship.  I choose not to take on this projection as I know that I spent more hours talking with her then anyone I've ever been with and still that wasn't enough and I am now labeled an avoidant like all her past boyfriends.  I guess if you can't beat them; join them?  so now i'm in her club of old boyfriends who are avoidants.  The story continues.

Me i'm left picking up the pieces.   I'll say a prayer for her. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Beneck]

Hey man, welcome  I can see that you've been through the wringer here. Really hurtful stuff.

"I hope you don't tell everyone or people that you had this ex that was crazy and that's why things didn't work out." 

Interestingly, I would encourage you to do the opposite and DO talk about it. Social support is PARAMOUNT in times like these. Don't be afraid to talk about it and and ask for support, situations like these are tough.

[truthbeknown]

Thank you.  This forum is super busy and I think the rise of cases and dysfunction has a lot to do with it.  The world seems to be going mad. 

[Lucky Jim]

I would encourage you to do the opposite and DO talk about it. Social support is PARAMOUNT in times like these. Don't be afraid to talk about it and and ask for support, situations like these are tough.

Hey truthbeknown, I'm sorry to hear about your b/u.  I'm w/Beneck: don't continue the cover-up; instead, I suggest you reach out to others and let your r/s see the light of day.  Go ahead and stand in your truth.  You no longer need to protect her.

LuckyJim

[once removed]

do you want to get back with her?

[truthbeknown]

once removed:

of course i'm split on this.  I tell myself that I know the real her; the little wounded girl that was just acting out and that is not her.  She is typically very loving when she is NOT in dysregulation.

However, the wise mind part of me also knows that her other personality; the one that gets dysregulated and becomes delusional is dangerous and I want my cake and eat it too.  I want to be able to be with the good part but I also want to be safe.   Seems impossible with borderlines who don't get help. 

I'm going back and forth because I can't sort out things right now.  I just feel numb.  The highs and lows are amazing.  I can also see how her situation has brought out more desperation and possibly even BPD traits.  Somehow i'm questions whether that would change if her situation was better? 

So i'm split on the answer to that question.  Today she sent me a text wishing me well on the new job that i'm starting.   

I thought that showed that she probably woke up back in her main personality and feeling bad about what happened? 

[Lucky Jim]

However, the wise mind part of me also knows that her other personality; the one that gets dysregulated and becomes delusional is dangerous and I want my cake and eat it too.

Hey tbk, Not saying you shouldn't recycle if that's what you choose to do; I am saying, however, that you can't have one side without the other in a BPD r/s, because it runs with the territory.  The issue is whether you can work around it, but in my view you can't avoid the Jeckyll/Hyde  part of the BPD personality.  I should know: I was married to a pwBPD for 16 years!

LJ

[once removed]

of course i'm split on this.

ok.

i moved your thread to Bettering/Reversing a breakup for now. you can explore the pros and cons of exiting the relationship. but if youre torn, this is the place to be.

However, the wise mind part of me also knows that her other personality; the one that gets dysregulated and becomes delusional is dangerous and I want my cake and eat it too.

i dont really want to belabor the point, tbk, but BPD isnt two personalities, one that is loving, and one that is distorted/mean/unloving. they are one in the same: the real her.

people with BPD traits live in extremes. its important to know, understand, and accept (and by accept i dont mean approve) who our partners are, and who they arent, whether we are staying or leaving.

i think a lot of us get tripped up here, thinking that the good times are the real times, and if we could just make the bad times go away, or lessen, all would be great. this is not realistic. i dont mean to say at all that things cant improve, they can. but it will require a very different approach.

what was her reason for breaking up with you? have you dropped the news that youre not going to marry her?

[truthbeknown]

Hey tbk, Not saying you shouldn't recycle if that's what you choose to do; I am saying, however, that you can't have one side without the other in a BPD r/s, because it runs with the territory.  The issue is whether you can work around it, but in my view you can't avoid the Jeckyll/Hyde  part of the BPD personality.  I should know: I was married to a pwBPD for 16 years!

LJ

LJ:  are you "lucky" because you are done with that relationship?  Today and going forward my objective is to list why I feel I want her or need her in my life and try to balance out the equation of whether she is enhancing my life or bringing me down?   Those are serious questions I know my logical mind is willing to tackle.  I know i'm in touch with my emotions but i'm mostly over empathetic.  Today on my morning walk I thought about something.  To me it seems that pwBPD are all about emotions affecting them and not about how they affect others.  So they seem to only be willing to look at how a feeling affects them vs looking at how their behavior could generate feelings of different sorts for other people.  This lack of empathy seems to be some hard wired protection mechanism.   Whats strange is that I had a lot of abuse growing up but my brain must have decided to be overly empathetic as my operating mode and in some self defense.  I see my kids making excuses for their mom who by other people's or societies standards could be looked at as very ill but to them they empathize with her.  I think it keeps them safe from facing the truth which they can't do anything about. 

Right now I'm looking at where my emotions are coming from.  Is it my wounded child that wants to be accepted and just like my kids trying to get their mom's approval, my brain might think if I just had another chance I can make her happy.  But the difference is that I don't need her to survive like my kids (younger ones) perceive they still need their mom and her resources etc.   This is just a theory or thought that i'm pondering on now. 

I have to get out of the second guessing mode or cognitive dissonance of whether I could have done something to prevent this.  What if I was more ready? what if I wasn't ready?   etc etc. 

LJ- have you found peace in relationship after that long marriage or have you gotten out the game entirely?  I wonder if I have a flaw in a way by being too empathetic and no matter who i get with I'm going to attract this?  That question could be from feeling a little sorry for myself right now.  I'll be okay.  just going back and forth

[Lucky Jim]

I have to get out of the second guessing mode or cognitive dissonance of whether I could have done something to prevent this.  What if I was more ready? what if I wasn't ready?   etc etc. 

Hello again, tbk, To me, it's doubtful that anything you did or didn't do would have changed the outcome.  Just the way it is with BPD.  I suggest you decline to engage in this kind of second-guessing.

No, I don't think you are flawed, but most of us Nons have co-dependent tendencies, which you might want to work on.  You might also want to explore why you ended up in a marriage to a pwBPD?  Hint: usually it has something to do with one's FOO or other childhood trauma.

Yes, life is a lot more peaceful.  Though not currently in a r/s, I've discovered that there are kind and considerate people out there who appreciate me for who I am!  So I'm here to confirm that there is definitely romantic life post-BPD.

Feel free to pose any other questions!

LJ

[truthbeknown]

FOO?

yes I know I have co-dependent tendencies.  Both her and I studied Stan Tatkins work and he talks about co-regulating.   Somehow we failed to do that.  I don't want to blame; I think her desire for me to be a certain person for her and my inability to do it (marry her like right now) contributed to the lack of co-regulating? 

Right now I'm feeling like we both failed each other.  I'm sure time will soften things up a bit.  I'm just glad she didn't have kids.  In my last r/s the woman didn't tell me she was on meds and when she got off she went bipolar and manic.  That relationship ending was very hard because I had ties to her kids and it felt like I was accepted by them more then my own kids who have been alienated against me.

I think when a partner shows me that she loves me or wants me it sooths the wound of my ex wife alienating my kids from me and that I don't have the relationship with them that I would have wanted. 

[truthbeknown]

Hello again, tbk, To me, it's doubtful that anything you did or didn't do would have changed the outcome.  Just the way it is with BPD.  I suggest you decline to engage in this kind of second-guessing.

No, I don't think you are flawed, but most of us Nons have co-dependent tendencies, which you might want to work on.  You might also want to explore why you ended up in a marriage to a pwBPD?  Hint: usually it has something to do with one's FOO or other childhood trauma.

Yes, life is a lot more peaceful.  Though not currently in a r/s, I've discovered that there are kind and considerate people out there who appreciate me for who I am!  So I'm here to confirm that there is definitely romantic life post-BPD.

Feel free to pose any other questions!

LJ

I was just thinking today:  Why do I/we non's remember the good things about them when they throw away all the good and only remember the bad?   It's like a switch gets turned off and they forget who they were with us.  To us it seems real but maybe to them it was just a dream or something unreal to them?  All the I love you's , the things in common, the admiration for us.  It's really hard for normal people's brains to believe non of this meant anything and we were just being played?   I think that's why break ups with pwBPD are so hard!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey tbk,

FOO = Family of Origin.

For us Nons, I think it's a selective amnesia that blocks out the trauma and abuse, and  idealizes the good times.

For those w/BPD, I think it's Black and White thinking.  Someone is either stupendous or horrible, with nothing in-between.  Over time, anyone within their orbit will usually fall in both categories.

No, I don't think we were being played, because those w/BPD respond to the emotion of the moment, with no ability to filter or regulate it.

Agree, parting ways with a pwBPD is a painful process, as many here will attest!

LJ

[once removed]

Why do I/we non's remember the good things about them when they throw away all the good and only remember the bad?

because when you are feeling the sting of rejection, you tend to idealize your "rejector". there are a myriad of ways that people cope with that sting, some better than others.

I wonder if I have a flaw in a way by being too empathetic and no matter who i get with I'm going to attract this?

empathy isnt a flaw, or something that makes you susceptible to a group or type of person. its the ability to understand where a person is coming from, and why. its probably the number skill you need in a relationship with someone with BPD traits, if not any relationship in general.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

I have to get out of the second guessing mode or cognitive dissonance of whether I could have done something to prevent this.  What if I was more ready? what if I wasn't ready?   etc etc.

if you want her back, while there is no use in beating yourself up, it is invaluable to examine what wasnt working, why, where you can do better, and go back in with a very different game plan.

its been a couple of days. any update? have you heard from her?

[truthbeknown]

because when you are feeling the sting of rejection, you tend to idealize your "rejector". there are a myriad of ways that people cope with that sting, some better than others.

empathy isnt a flaw, or something that makes you susceptible to a group or type of person. its the ability to understand where a person is coming from, and why. its probably the number skill you need in a relationship with someone with BPD traits, if not any relationship in general.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

if you want her back, while there is no use in beating yourself up, it is invaluable to examine what wasnt working, why, where you can do better, and go back in with a very different game plan.

its been a couple of days. any update? have you heard from her?

no I only heard from her on Monday- wishing me well on my new job.  I said thank you and that's it.  I've been tempted to reach out but honestly i'm so strung out from getting up early, working late and not sleeping well that I don't think I have the capacity to re-engage.  She has been on messenger a lot and one of my new acquaintances from a fb group for those who have married philipinas has told me it is culturally conditioned for a lot of them to quickly get another boyfriend or cheat if they are mad at you.  I thought she was higher consciousness then that but that might be the lie I was telling myself? When we were together she was not on messenger except for a few times in the evening to talk to family but now (and just before the breakup) she has been on many times a day. 

I think because she has a narsisistic streak in her BPD traits that if I chase her or reach out then she will probably think in her mind that she controls me and can keep dishing out punishment.  I hate to condone that. 

But I think about her everyday.  And then I think about the distortions, the drama, the ups/downs and in my mind I know its best to let this go but my heart wants to keep holding on.  She even told me not to worry about her because she would be okay and wouldn't try to hurt herself like my ex wife did after divorce. 

We had talked about this being a cooling off period and maybe touching base in a few months but nobody set who was going to do that and when.   

I don't want to keep going through this with her and I fear that going back would be very risky for me.  Of course there is a part of my brain that says, "what if you just gave her what she ultimately wants- maybe things would get better?"  But I know that is a lie.  she has already shown her true colors.  I know my not being able to tell her that I could marry her through her off but I couldn't do that if she wasn't going to respect me before we even got married.   I am fighting myself and hear a part of me saying "well maybe you're just wanting someone to be perfect?"  I don't really believe this- I just want stable.  But I was happy with so many things about her that were a perfect fit for me.  The only thing that wasn't was her inability to self regulate without blaming the partner. 

[truthbeknown]

because when you are feeling the sting of rejection, you tend to idealize your "rejector". there are a myriad of ways that people cope with that sting, some better than others.

empathy isnt a flaw, or something that makes you susceptible to a group or type of person. its the ability to understand where a person is coming from, and why. its probably the number skill you need in a relationship with someone with BPD traits, if not any relationship in general.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

if you want her back, while there is no use in beating yourself up, it is invaluable to examine what wasnt working, why, where you can do better, and go back in with a very different game plan.

its been a couple of days. any update? have you heard from her?

We talked on Saturday.  I initiated it by asking if we could talk so that I could clarify a few things from our previous conversation.   She agreed and the conversation started out rocky but once she got her hurt feelings off her chest then she was back to normal again.  My summary from the meeting is that she struggles with obsession over things that she perceives is a threat.  It turns out that what she was really upset about was how I handled something with a female friend that triggered her beliefs that "men cheat on women" because her dad cheated on her mom and then her childhood was very rocky because of it.  I think that she was projecting her dad on me for sure.  While I know I could've handled things differently with what happened in the situation she is referring to it was initiated by her lying to me about something very key in our relationship dynamic and that basically changed everything.  I was asking for a time out that night on the phone and told her ( as we have agreed to do with timeouts) that I would call her later.  My mistake was that I didn't give it enough time.  I should have said, "lets talk tomorrow".  So instead this female friend in question called me during that evening and her and I spoke for quite some time.  She was telling me about her boyfriend and asking me my opinion on some things related to that in addition to venting about work.  Her and I also have something in common in that our ex's tried to commit suicide and it keeps us walking on eggshells with them.  But truly to me we are just friends.  She has a bf, and I was having a relationship with my gf. 

So this was the issue and in the conversation the blame got shifted to me and I think it was my fault.  I took responsibility for my part but rather then her being empathetic about that- she used that as re enforcement that I was hurting her.  I had to remind her we were on a time out and the timing just seemed to be bad when she called because I did not get back to my gf before she got back to me.  So this triggered "he's cheating on me with her" kind of response.   As I asked her, "why would tell you i'm talking to her and be transparent with you about her if I was cheating?". 

After hashing it out we got to talking about childhood wounds and she finally seemed to let go of the anger.  But man she had been carrying around the anger for a good while about this.
I am trying to decide if she is more Paranoid Personality disorder then BPD?  I know there can be mixed traits but she does apologize for bad feelings and does seem to want to work on things but she needs to be allowed to be angry and be heard about being angry even if it is a distortion of hers.

For me it's exhausting so i don't know what will come of this in the end.  Right now we agreed to work on each during a break period and touch base in a couple of months.  We also agreed to have light contact with no relationship talk once a week or every other week so that we don't entirely lose our connection.  I feel more at peace with this even if the relationship doesn't work out- I feel it's better to do this then to have a split over anger.

she wanted to know what the outcome would be and i said I couldn't answer that but depending on the work that we both do that might have an influence.

[incognitoMe]

"...she had made this decision before today and today was just the announcement day." 

I got dumped Sunday after a fight after taking care of her all weekend. She was sick and I made her chicken soup from scratch etc...

The actual ending fight was staged I believe.  She admitted later that she was already planning to leave since a couple weeks ago. 

Basically every time she has broken up with me, it has been planned in advance, but she pretends it is over something I did.   Its all smoke to hide the escape, and deflect blame and shame.

 

   

[truthbeknown]

yeah I've run into that before.  where they think you are going to leave them so they pick a fight over something stupid and then blame you for it.  Only she is paranoid and I don't know how many people with bpd are also paranoid ?  but maybe she has more of Paranoia personality disorder ? 

after the conversation she has returned to her usual self.  Not sure how long it will last.  Still not sure what I am going to do?

[Lucky Jim]

I don't want to keep going through this with her and I fear that going back would be very risky for me.  Of course there is a part of my brain that says, "what if you just gave her what she ultimately wants- maybe things would get better?"

Heu tbk, Yes, going back would be risky.  Many of us, including me, have recycled only to wind up in the same place down the line, except with more pain.  In my view, the hope that if you gave her what she wants (?) things would get better, may be unrealistic.  Stay the course, is my suggestion.

LJ

[once removed]

I am trying to decide if she is more Paranoid Personality disorder then BPD?

what youre describing wouldnt be described as clinical paranoia. insecurity, jealousy, jumping to conclusions based on strong feelings, sure. people with bpd traits can be all of those things, and have inherent trust issues.

My summary from the meeting is that she struggles with obsession over things that she perceives is a threat.  It turns out that what she was really upset about was how I handled something with a female friend that triggered her beliefs that "men cheat on women" because her dad cheated on her mom and then her childhood was very rocky because of it.

you were fighting at the time, do i have that right?

[truthbeknown]

what youre describing wouldnt be described as clinical paranoia. insecurity, jealousy, jumping to conclusions based on strong feelings, sure. people with bpd traits can be all of those things, and have inherent trust issues.

"Paranoid personality disorder is characterized as a longstanding suspiciousness and mistrust of people in general. Paranoid individuals are suspicious, resentful, hostile and often times irritable and angry. The essential picture of paranoid personality disorder is a pervasive and unwarranted tendency to interpret other people's actions as deliberately demeaning or threatening. Combined with this is the desire to remain free of close personal relationships in which there is a chance of losing power or self-control. Paranoid individuals frequently, without justification, question the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends, family and associates. In the workplace, they tend to be jealous of coworkers, guarded, and loners, often times isolating themselves from others. They react with anger even to constructive criticism and have a tendency to be quarrelsome, abrasive and would much rather work alone. It is commonplace for them to turn a small issue or problem into a catastrophic issue. They often times feel mistreated, overlooked and picked on by their superiors. Coworkers may become exasperated and angry toward them."

she has a number of these traits and lacks understanding the difference between humor and criticism.  She seems to look for criticism from others even if they are not and she can't handle constructive criticism.  Just was curious if there was crossover between the two spectrums?

you were fighting at the time, do i have that right? 

 Yes I was very upset that she lied to me about something so I needed a "time out" to regain my composure.  I just didn't know the other person was going to call and to be fair, I may have subconsciously not cared about the timing since I was angry at her for lying to me.  Looking back I didn't handle the situation well.  I could've done some things better but what upsets me now is even confessing this to her and taking responsibility for my part doesn't get her to meet me there.  Instead she uses it as confirmation that her paranoia about me trying to hurt her or leave her is correct which just makes her angry vs empathetic towards me.  what do you mean by "do I have the right" .

[once removed]

what do you mean by "do I have that right" .

i was asking if i had the facts correct.

the DSM advises that it not be used like a cookbook, which is to say that looking at surface details and connecting them to pathological traits can be misleading. i think what youre getting at though, is her distrustful and suspicious nature, which is common to a person with BPD traits, pertaining to strong fears of abandonment, rejection, and low self esteem; these things are very difficult for a loved one (you).

for example, her reaction to you and your friend being on the phone during a fight isnt an irrational one...it is certainly over the top. but what she was really saying is that she felt betrayed over it (and she reacted to that). if you can see her and hear her, and speak to that feeling, and not just argue over the facts of the matter, you may be able to get somewhere, you may not.

i think that what im saying here is that trying to pinpoint her pathology is probably less helpful to your circumstances than seeing that this is primarily about a conflict style between the two of you, as well as major differences (for example her high priority for marriage) and whether (and how) or not that can be resolved.

[truthbeknown]

i was asking if i had the facts correct.

Sorry I misread and thought it said, "do I have the right"  .   

the DSM advises that it not be used like a cookbook, which is to say that looking at surface details and connecting them to pathological traits can be misleading. i think what youre getting at though, is her distrustful and suspicious nature, which is common to a person with BPD traits, pertaining to strong fears of abandonment, rejection, and low self esteem; these things are very difficult for a loved one (you).

for example, her reaction to you and your friend being on the phone during a fight isnt an irrational one...it is certainly over the top. but what she was really saying is that she felt betrayed over it (and she reacted to that). if you can see her and hear her, and speak to that feeling, and not just argue over the facts of the matter, you may be able to get somewhere, you may not.

i think that what im saying here is that trying to pinpoint her pathology is probably less helpful to your circumstances than seeing that this is primarily about a conflict style between the two of you, as well as major differences (for example her high priority for marriage) and whether (and how) or not that can be resolved.

yeah I don't know if my brain can handle knowing that there have been all these episodes and feel totally safe emotionally with her.  I guess that is my insecurity.  One author I follow talks about "wound mates"  and I really didn't think that we would become "wound mates" but we did. 

we'll see what happens- we're on a break and keeping in contact once a week but the longer i am not in contact with her the more i remember the bad episodes vs the good now   I wonder if she is doing the same?  I know its part of a self defense mechanism.  I have alot of work to go back and do on me again.  The fact that i keep attracting this dynamic means i haven't healed something in me.  This week i realized that maybe being with a person who has bpd fills some void in me.  I'm working with a woman who seems pretty healthy (from what i can tell) but even though she is attractive physically, I am in this space where there is something about her that hypothetically speaking (if she was my partner) that i would be happy with her.  Maybe i'm addicted to dysfunctional people?  because i grew up with it, had an ex wife and family like that etc?  just conceptualizing here- don't really know but just speculating i guess.

[once removed]

The fact that i keep attracting this dynamic means i haven't healed something in me.

believe it or not, all of us pursue similar partners, and often familiar family dynamics.

the difference, i think, and as you touch on, is gravitating toward dysfunctional relationships, and/or people.

the long and short of breaking that pattern is digging into what about that dynamic that you gravitate to, and then discovering and, actively, gravitating toward a healthier model.

easier said than done, i know. but i have a history of nothing but dysfunctional relationships myself. i learned a lot here that really opened my mind and challenged my conceptions of what a relationship (healthy or otherwise) is, something i guess i always thought i knew. my attractions havent really changed. what i gravitate toward, how i handle relationships, and relationship adversity, and how i process it all has.

my advice would be to focus your energy there. it just so happens that the skills on this board will take you far in terms of healthier relationships, whether you reconcile with the person youre on a break with, or not.

[truthbeknown]

believe it or not, all of us pursue similar partners, and often familiar family dynamics.

the difference, i think, and as you touch on, is gravitating toward dysfunctional relationships, and/or people.

the long and short of breaking that pattern is digging into what about that dynamic that you gravitate to, and then discovering and, actively, gravitating toward a healthier model.

easier said than done, i know. but i have a history of nothing but dysfunctional relationships myself. i learned a lot here that really opened my mind and challenged my conceptions of what a relationship (healthy or otherwise) is, something i guess i always thought i knew. my attractions havent really changed. what i gravitate toward, how i handle relationships, and relationship adversity, and how i process it all has.

my advice would be to focus your energy there. it just so happens that the skills on this board will take you far in terms of healthier relationships, whether you reconcile with the person youre on a break with, or not.

thanks O.R. :  your efforts on the board here are to be commended.  I see you answer a lot of posts from struggling people and I just want to thank you and let you know that you deserve some recognition for your efforts! 

I think you're right; if this ended i would most likely attract something similar but just different shell?  so maybe it's time to buckle down and see what i can do? she did send me a fathers day gift and told me that she has taken a break from any hormone / sexual related activities because i had pointed out all of our fights had appeared after this.  She may be realizing she has an addition to over sexual / hormone depleting acts and is trying to see how she does without it.  She was much more grounded and back to her self that i know.  Some women admit to being affected by hormones and up to this point she was not willing to admit to this and it was controlling her.  She is seeking some help.  We are still on a "break" but had a much healthier conversation this past weekend.  I'm trying to not over celebrate this and just see where it goes.

[once removed]

We are still on a "break" but had a much healthier conversation this past weekend.  I'm trying to not over celebrate this and just see where it goes.

how is it going?

[truthbeknown]

Once removed:

back in the "dog house" again.  At first she pulled me back in and I was tentative.  She sensed this.  She was missing me.   I told her why I was tentative.  I think it is so hard to be transparent with her because then if I tell her why I was upset or go over how things happened so we can learn from them and avoid future conflict she winds up digging up more dirt in her mind against me and using that when she is dysregulated again.  In fact i'm noticing when she feels dysregulated her anger or emotions of over sensitivity to what most would consider "typical" couple conversations goes to a level of victimness and blame.   

Last weekend she announced that she was going out with a man who was just a friend.  This meeting with "just a friend" lasted 5 hours in a restaurant ( am I paranoid to think that seems a little long for a dinner meeting with a friend?).  Then she asked me where I was and I told her I went dancing ( I go line dancing).  She flipped the switch and immediately went into victim mode about me not being transparent with her.   So she breaks up with me, we are on a break, we both agree not to date anyone and she announced that she was planning on going out with a male friend ( I really believed her and was not jealous) and then she calls me at 11:30 pm her time and grills me on going dancing and accusing me of matching her and retaliating because I decided to go dancing. 

I was distant with her after this and then a few days later she acted like nothing had happened.  I confessed my upset feelings and told her why.  She listened patiently and didn't try to argue with me.   after that conversation she reached out to me every day and was sweet and seemed like we were "back on" again.   Then, today,  after having a healthy conversation last night, turned the switch again.   Yesterday I shared with her something that my ex wife did that really is a major problem and expressed how upset I was about it.  Her initial response was okay until I asked her a question or two.  I felt like she didn't really seem upset that my ex would do this to me.  I admit I had an expectation of more support.  I admit this.   Because she seemed so indifferent to it, I asked her why she would be so angry at a female friend of mine who did nothing to hurt me but my ex purposefully hurts me and there is no irritation on her end.  The two seemed incongruent to me.  Anyway that triggered her going into victim mode over me comparing her to the other women and devaluing her. 

Imagine that- I was the one who just got blind-sided by my ex wife and now my gf is the victim.    She told me that this female friend of mine wanted to seduce me and that this is why she was angry at her but she was not afraid of my ex wife seducing me.  It seems very narcissistic behavior now.  As long as the pain involves her there is a concern but if it doesn't "oh well".   That may be my over reaction to her words about this.  At any rate now i'm the bad guy again even though I am the one whose credit just tanked because my ex wife put my name on medical bills and they got charged off against me. 

I am feeling pretty stupid right now - like why do I put up with this?  what am I doing to myself?  but in all fairness the night before we had one of the best conversations we had in awhile.   Total Jekyl and hyde.   I'm exhausted and scared and sad.   Running the gamet of emotions right now.

thanks for checking in.

[once removed]

it sounds like the two of you are mostly relitigating old relationship battles, with the same old approach.

if you want things to change, you most likely need a radically different approach.

[Lucky Jim]

I am feeling pretty stupid right now - like why do I put up with this?  what am I doing to myself?  but in all fairness the night before we had one of the best conversations we had in awhile.   Total Jekyl and hyde.   I'm exhausted and scared and sad.   Running the gamet of emotions right now.

Hey tbk, what would you like to see happen?  What are your gut feelings about the r/s?

LJ

[truthbeknown]

lucky jim,

I am trying to figure that out.  If there was no immigration thing involved I would want to do a trial living together to see how things go.  I know this is still a risk but that is what I would want. I don't think i'm going to get it though and yet I want to hold off deciding about the relationship until we see each other again because I believe there are things we can both learn from that meeting.  Maybe i'm foolish?

OR: 

yes it's like she is seeing me as old wounds and then when she behaves like that I react and she sees me reacting to my old wounds.  I think she is pushing buttons more then I am but I could be wrong.  I need to have self preservation too and that is why I say it like that.