The reality of the situation

[clvrnn]

My feelings are still fluctuating, which is annoying. One day I’m over her, the next I’m back to square one.

What if she simply doesn’t speak to me again?

What if she just simply doesn’t want to be with me?

Maybe she doesn’t think about me at all, and she’s happier this way. Maybe nothing will ever happen between us again. Maybe she’ll find someone else, or has already. All quite upsetting things to think about, but all very real and possible. She’s young - I’m not going to be the person she chooses to be with, or has children with, or lives with, even. Really, all of this probably doesn’t mean much to her; I feel as if I’ve put my life on hold for her but really, what has this situation meant for her?

Say we start dating again; for how long? Until this happens again? Until the end of university? Until she wants to sleep with someone else? Until she makes another impulsive decision that doesn’t include me? Really, it can’t last with her - regardless of the personality disorder. She’s too uncertain, too inconsistent, too unstable. She’ll never choose me, long term. I wish she would, but that’s just a fantasy. I was just someone at uni that she dated, that’s it.

She probably did love me - her actions with the sabotage and everything suggest that yes, she probably did. I would guess also that the cutting me out was to avoid any chance of her falling into it again with me, based on little things she said and the way she was acting around me at uni. She seemed almost nervous, scared to look at me - she laughed at my jokes. She said that if she hung around with me outside of uni that we’d end up dating and that’s not what she wanted. That she couldn’t be involved with me “or anybody” because of how it made her feel, and that she didn’t want to be that angry person, that anxious person.

I would love it if we spoke again at university. All it takes is a look between us, or even a simple joke to bring us together. But this will just keep happening. As much as it hurts, I’m not sure there’s anything I can really do. I don’t want to be close to her again and live in fear of her sabotaging things again, it’s so painful. So there’s not much I can do, really. If she speaks to me again, then she does. If she doesn’t, well, that’s heartbreaking, but there’s nothing I can do.

Oh, and I also wanted to express a really very heartfelt thank you to the members of this community who have never been critical, or judgmental, or impatient with my repetitive posts. This really does feel like a family, and I feel very safe here. So thank you to everyone who does take the time out to respond, read and advise me.

[babyducks]

Hi clvrnn,

Hope you had a good day and did something nice for yourself.

What I notice in your writing is a lot of focus on her.   What if she does this.   Or what if she does that.    What has this meant for her.

All interesting questions and important ones.     Also pretty impossible to answer.

I think the better questions are:   What has this meant for YOU?    What will YOU do when you return to school?    What will YOU do if XYZ happens.

Turn the focus around.     Take it off of her.   Aim it at yourself.   You are in control of you.     You don't have to / need to react to her.   You can set conditions that you are comfortable with.   You can determine your actions and stick with them.     

The difference between reaction to her and acting from your values and beliefs is a huge step.    you are the more stable one.   while you allow her to drive the bus she's in control.   when you drive the bus you are in control.

what do I mean by driving the bus?     Doing what you want.   When you want.   because it's good for you.    with out over functioning trying to figure out what it all means to her.

People talk about NC like it's a switch that goes on and off.   I am no contact.    the switch is off.      How realistic is that?   If you share children together?  If you work at the same place of business?   If you are going to see each other at college?     If you are going to be in the same study group?

There is also such a thing as LC - low contact.    And CC - control contact.    LC might be appropriate when some one is over pursuing you.     pushing on your boundaries for time and space.    CC might be appropriate when you have to see some one in the function of your life.    Control Contact is what you define it to be.    for me it might look like I will engage in conversation in a public setting that is about the event at hand.     I will talk about what is currently happening, not the past, nothing personal.   I will be cordial.     I will not encourage conversation but I won't actively avoid it either.

In your other thread LivenLearned asked:

It takes a long of strength to not be emotionally injured in a BPD relationship. Have you found ways to take care of yourself so you can build strength in the event the relationship were to start up again?

do you think we can go back and look at this question.    You are going to see her once college restarts.   It will be hard.     She might talk to you.   She might ignore you.    Either is possible.     What are you doing to build up strength so that you are not emotionally injured in either event?

'ducks

[clvrnn]

Hi ‘ducks,

Thank you for taking the time out to reply to my ramblings.

What I notice in your writing is a lot of focus on her.   What if she does this.   Or what if she does that.    What has this meant for her.

You know, for the entire time I’ve been at university I have been focusing on her a lot. Her inconsistent behaviour since March 2018 has really affected me, and as such, I think I just naturally focus on/wait to see what she’ll do or say, because for so long she has intermittently been intense/avoided me – so I suppose I am naturally ‘chasing’ that contact from her, hoping for it, maybe.

But you are right; I can’t find out the answers to any of these questions.

What will YOU do when you return to school?    What will YOU do if XYZ happens.

I have no idea what I’ll do when I go back there. I don’t have any other friends in the class, as I spent all of second and most of first year with her. I briefly hung around with another woman, but she became distant when pwBPD and I got back together, and I’ve reached out twice to this woman and she’s ignored me. I’m not really an extrovert, and as it’s third year, everyone has their own groups and friends – it does seem that I’m going to have to just do my own thing in class, this year. It’s also dissertation year, which doesn’t really leave a lot of room for socialising, anyway.

Turn the focus around.     Take it off of her.   Aim it at yourself.   You are in control of you.     You don't have to / need to react to her.   You can set conditions that you are comfortable with.   You can determine your actions and stick with them.   

 The difference between reaction to her and acting from your values and beliefs is a huge step.    you are the more stable one.   while you allow her to drive the bus she's in control.   when you drive the bus you are in control.

I had thought about just going in and focusing on what I am there to do, but it will be hard to block her out. I have never really been much of a strong person, emotionally. I had planned on going in and just not speaking to her – I have to be honest, even just looking at her or catching eye contact will kill me. So even CC would be difficult. I feel like it’s best if I don’t acknowledge her at all, but I am not really that strong and, as you say, it’s possible we’ll be in the same groups or projects, etc.

Driving the bus – again, yeah, just ignoring her was my plan. I hadn’t and don’t want to do that, but I think I’d probably break down if I tried anything else like trying to be cordial or looking at her and saying “hey” and that’s it. I have so many questions and unresolved feelings, it’s as if I want to lock her in a room and just talk to her and ask her this and that and this and that. I don’t feel in control of the bus at all, so to speak.

In your other thread LivenLearned asked:

Quote from: livednlearned on 20 May 2019, 19:17:50
It takes a long of strength to not be emotionally injured in a BPD relationship. Have you found ways to take care of yourself so you can build strength in the event the relationship were to start up again?

do you think we can go back and look at this question.    You are going to see her once college restarts.   It will be hard.     She might talk to you.   She might ignore you.    Either is possible.     What are you doing to build up strength so that you are not emotionally injured in either event?

I’ll be honest, I have no idea what to do or how to prepare emotionally for the coming term. I suppose I had just assumed that by the time it comes around I’ll be feeling better, that my feelings will have died down. I think I forget that the environment will be VERY stressful emotionally; for example, we’ll have to give presentations and it’s possible I’ll have to look right at her, hear her speaking, see her being friendly to others, watch her leaving without being able to go with her, etc. It is also where we met and spent a lot of time together, and the campus holds a lot of emotional memories for me – being there and being in a different situation with her will be bound to upset me.

I have read all about BPD, all about trauma bonding etc – but I don’t know how to build strength up for this. I feel like the moment I see her I’ll just feel everything again, and start doing silly things like trying to message her again, or trying to catch her attention. It’s as if my emotions really do take over in that environment. I’m quite scared about it all, to be honest.

So no, in answer to you and LivenLearned, I haven’t found any ways to build up my emotional strength and don’t really know where to begin.

[JNChell]

clvrnn, ducks makes some very solid points. What sticks out the most is shifting your focus onto you. You’re struggling and I’m sorry for that. I know how it feels. I can also tell you that focusing on myself in the best way that I can has made a world of difference. Yes, there is still sadness and resentment, but it’s residual now. I don’t focus on it. I feel it when it comes. Do yourself a favor. Make a list of 3 things that you’ll do for yourself this week and complete it. Sound reasonable? Let us know how it goes. Much love, clvrnn

[babyducks]

Hi clvrnn,

There was a lot in your post so I am going to reply to this one piece now.     And I will be back later to talk with you about the rest.

You know, for the entire time I’ve been at university I have been focusing on her a lot. ../../.. I think I just naturally focus on/wait to see what she’ll do or say, .

This piece sort of leapt out at me.     Hmmmm.    It sounds like maybe you focused on her to the exclusion of other people.    and it sounds like you focused on her and ignored your own feelings/needs/wants.    What do you think about that?    I think this would be a fruitful place to dig deep.     I think that perhaps is one of the reason you feel so bad right now.

When I suggest you turn your focus on you,  I don't mean on what you are studying
or what you are working on.   I literally mean on you.    On figuring out what will make clvrnn happy.     and if you tell me happy isn't possible, I am going to say figure out what would make clvrnn comfortable.    if comfortable isn't possible how about less awkward?

I am also not suggesting blocking her out.   That's all or nothing thinking and I suppose that won't be possible for a while.    The first times you see her you are going to be vigilant and aware of what she is doing and where she is.     How can you learn skills now to get ready for that.    Like a runner training for a race, do you think it's possible to train your brain to turn your thoughts into more positive areas?

back later
'ducks

[Lucky Jim]

I would love it if we spoke again at university. All it takes is a look between us, or even a simple joke to bring us together. But this will just keep happening. As much as it hurts, I’m not sure there’s anything I can really do. I don’t want to be close to her again and live in fear of her sabotaging things again, it’s so painful. So there’s not much I can do, really. If she speaks to me again, then she does. If she doesn’t, well, that’s heartbreaking, but there’s nothing I can do.

Hey clvrnn, I'm uncertain why you write that, "there's nothing I can do"?  I'm with babyducks and JNChell, you're the Captain of your Ship and you get to decide the right course for your life.  To put it simply: you don't have to be close with her again if you choose not to.  Right?  I am uncertain why you are living in fear of her sabotaging things again.  I suggest you decline to get back on the roller coaster, if that opportunity should present itself.

LuckyJim

[babyducks]

hello again,

It took me a long long time to learn this.   I struggled with it and struggled with it.

But the honest truth is the only way to change how you feel is to change how you think.

Yes.    Really.

One of the most sure fire ways to change how your feel is to change negative self talk.

I had planned on going in and just not speaking to her – I have to be honest, even just looking at her or catching eye contact will kill me. So even CC would be difficult. I feel like it’s best if I don’t acknowledge her at all, but I am not really that strong and, as you say, it’s possible we’ll be in the same groups or projects, etc.

Will looking at her or catching her eye really kill you?    I am sure it will be unpleasant.   Won't be easy at all.    But kill you?    

How would it look if you started to take some ownership of the upcoming term?   What proactive steps could you take?

livednlearned asked about building emotional strength.   it seems clear that you are going to need some when you return to college.    Now is the time to work on that.    To actively work on that.

If you go over to google and type in 'building emotional resilience'   or 'how to build emotional resilience',  a few million articles will pop up.   browse around until you find one you like.    emotional resilience is a skill you can build by practice,   like baking a cake or hitting a tennis shot the more you do it the better you become at it.

one of the first things you'll learn in emotional resilience is that neuroscience says there’s only one real way to deal with fear: you need to face it, head on. When we avoid scary things we become more scared. When you face your fears they become less frightening.

you have a fear of seeing her again.   understandable.   the more you back away from that fear the scarier it will become.    the more you tell yourself,  the more your self talk centers around,...    I can face this fear down and not be defeated the more progress you will make.

what do you think?    Do you identify the negative self talk you have going on?  

'ducks

[clvrnn]

Thanks 'ducks for the reply. I've been thinking about it a lot. I did look for some emotional resilience tools on Google as you mentioned, there were many helpful things. Thank you.

I don't think she will engage with me in October. There appears to be someone else. I'm not proud of it but I was looking at her online activity and she's online often. She doesn't usually do that, and it seems to be how she is when there's someone she likes - i.e, me. I assume from her constant online presence that she's talking to someone else or dating someone else.

So I guess that's it. I've spent all of this time wondering what's going on, missing her, etc. And she isn't thinking about me at all. Well. This certainly feels worse than before.

[Beneck]

And she isn't thinking about me at all.

How can you be sure?

As I see it, it's more likely that she may be trying not to think about you, pushing her emotions for you away, good and bad.

Presence and activity and social media can be very misleading, as people usually try putting up a font. I'd be careful about arriving to hard conclusions based on her activity on the internet.

Not to say that I haven't done what you're doing right now :p

[clvrnn]

How can you be sure?

As I see it, it's more likely that she may be trying not to think about you, pushing her emotions for you away, good and bad.

Maybe. It certainly feels as if she has NO emotions for me, after completely cutting me off and avoiding me. Why do you think she may be pushing her emotions away?

Presence and activity and social media can be very misleading, as people usually try putting up a font. I'd be careful about arriving to hard conclusions based on her activity on the internet.

I know it is probably very damaging for me to look, but she spent so long online - all day - that it reminded me of when her and I would speak all day like that, and she isn't someone that is typically glued to her phone. Of course, I don't know if there's anyone else, my anxiety and I jumped to an instant conclusion.

[clvrnn]

Sometimes I wonder whether I should even be upset. I read a lot of posts on here from people who've been married to their ex pwBPD for many years, have children, etc. I was simply dating someone for a short period of time - I realise many would view this as a lucky escape.

I often feel as if maybe I am to blame. pwBPD had told me many times in the early stages that she was "flaky and unreliable", that she would go on to break my heart, that she sabotages relationships, that she was abusive, that she would hurt me "in one way or another". She told me very clearly. Yet, I didn't listen. I even had a therapist tell me not to get involved with her, before we began dating. In fact, I have never heard anyone say anything positive about her - mutual friends, therapists, ex friends of hers. Yet I blindly went ahead with it, and I got burnt. So who is to blame, really?

I think also I realise that even though the relationship itself was quite short, my involvement with her has spanned an entire year. This push/pull has been going on since this time last year, I've been trying to make sense of her actions for a whole year. Maybe that's why this is affecting me so much.

[Beneck]

Why do you think she may be pushing her emotions away?

Because... well, people do that! And I'm not talking to just people with BPD! But I think people with BPD do it in a far greater intensity and more easily.

I am guilty of doing something like this myself. I felt I had wronged someone, the situation/relationship was awkward and difficult to resolve and I was feeling shame. It was easier to distance myself away from the person rather than to face what was going on. My ex had done something very similar, gave me the silent treatment for 5 months :p

Of course, I don't know if there's anyone else, my anxiety and I jumped to an instant conclusion.

There could be someone else, or she could be looking for someone else. How long has it been since you 2 broke up? Time since last contact?

Sometimes I wonder whether I should even be upset.

I think that you should be. Despite the relationship being wrong/unhealthy for you, you had feelings for that person and she, as well as the relationship, was important to you. It's very important to mourn all that; all the things that won't happen again, your dreams, your future with her, etc. Respect your emotions and take them into account - listen to them.

I often feel as if maybe I am to blame. pwBPD had told me many times in the early stages that she was "flaky and unreliable", that she would go on to break my heart, that she sabotages relationships, that she was abusive, that she would hurt me "in one way or another". She told me very clearly. Yet, I didn't listen. I even had a therapist tell me not to get involved with her, before we began dating. In fact, I have never heard anyone say anything positive about her - mutual friends, therapists, ex friends of hers. Yet I blindly went ahead with it, and I got burnt. So who is to blame, really?

I think that, in life in general, we can learn a lot from the mistakes of others, but there come times where we have to make mistakes of our. You deeply wanted to be with this person and you went for it. I think that's very admirable, despite the negative outcome. And what's more, you can learn a lot about yourself from this. You're saying here that you went for this despite everyone warning you not to do so. Why? What does that tell you about yourself?

I think also I realise that even though the relationship itself was quite short, my involvement with her has spanned an entire year. This push/pull has been going on since this time last year, I've been trying to make sense of her actions for a whole year. Maybe that's why this is affecting me so much.

I think this could definitely play a role, yes. But in general people with BPD make us feel intensely loved because of their capacity for unprecedented mirroring and idealization. That creates a very powerful (even if unhealthy) bond, despite the length of time.

[clvrnn]

I am guilty of doing something like this myself. I felt I had wronged someone, the situation/relationship was awkward and difficult to resolve and I was feeling shame. It was easier to distance myself away from the person rather than to face what was going on. My ex had done something very similar, gave me the silent treatment for 5 months

You're right; no-one really likes to have to admit that they've done something to hurt someone else, or really face the negative consequences of their actions if it can be helped, I guess. Your ex remained silent for five months? That's such a long time; how did you manage during that time?

There could be someone else, or she could be looking for someone else. How long has it been since you 2 broke up? Time since last contact?

It's been four months since we broke up, and two months (almost) since I last made contact with her (no response, though!). It certainly doesn't feel like that long at all. With her, she seems to be very anti-relationship - one of the last things she said to me was "this is why I can't be involved with you, or anybody" - she seems very aware of how relationships and involvements make her behave. She gave a similar reason when she ended things the first time - "I can't take the anxiety that being involved with someone causes, there's a lot less pressure when I'm not involved with someone" - But, who knows. I don't know what is going on in her life.

I had liked to think that I was special to her, despite the BPD. She would often tell me that she hadn't met anyone like me for years, and there didn't seem to be anyone she'd mention in her romantic past apart from her ex, whom she dated four years prior to me. There didn't seem any mention of anyone significant other than him, and I got the impression that I was really the first person since him that she was truly involved with, but that it was causing her a lot of fear. So, in regards to her dating someone else - I think I'd be surprised if she was, but again, I don't know anything about her current life.

I think that you should be. Despite the relationship being wrong/unhealthy for you, you had feelings for that person and she, as well as the relationship, was important to you. It's very important to mourn all that; all the things that won't happen again, your dreams, your future with her, etc. Respect your emotions and take them into account - listen to them.

Thank you, that's such a compassionate thing to say and I really appreciate it.

I think that, in life in general, we can learn a lot from the mistakes of others, but there come times where we have to make mistakes of our. You deeply wanted to be with this person and you went for it. I think that's very admirable, despite the negative outcome. And what's more, you can learn a lot about yourself from this. You're saying here that you went for this despite everyone warning you not to do so. Why? What does that tell you about yourself?

That I need to stop rushing into poor decisions? Ha. I don't know. I suppose I was prepared to risk it, but I knew deep down it wasn't really a good idea at all.

[clvrnn]

I realise that I have been scared to 'let go', and that I am scared of her no longer thinking about me, and of no longer thinking about her. I don't know; scared of the unknown, or scared of having to return to 'normality'? I'm not sure.

University is almost over. For many reasons this is upsetting. She has become an intrinsic part of my university experience, and once it's finished it's unlikely I'll ever see her again - as proven, she is fleeting and unreliable and so I don't believe I'll see her again after that. That saddens me. It seems as if she has kept me as a university thing only, disappearing during every holiday, whether intentional or not. I have never felt part of her REAL life, and I've relied on uni for our interactions. So I am having to let go from now, and preparing and accepting that with the end of university comes the end of her part in my life. It terrifies me.

I know that really my life, my mental health and my emotional health are better without her around. I need to remain stable, because my mental health can so easily deteriorate and spiral out of control and she seems to be a trigger for that (in the same way she says I trigger her!).

I hate that university is the only place she has existed for me. This entire situation has been confusing, emotional, difficult, painful, horrible. It has taken so much out of me, that I at times forgot who I even was, what I wanted, what I was doing, etc.

Perhaps she has forgotten about me, and has moved on. Perhaps she is lamenting the loss of me in her life, I don't know. I have no idea. I wish I knew.

[clvrnn]

Lol, just looked at the post above. My thinking about her is still trying to make sense of her and still fixated on her actions/words. I realise I have a lot of letting go to do, here.