It is so hard to deal with

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi again. I need some advice how you guys did/do when you are stuck with your feelings? I hate to feel like this- miss my ex so i hardly can breathe or eat. Keep thinking of her every day and i cant take my engagering of my finger.. im not just ready for that.. and all the memories kills me and i think am going crazy here. Why cant i hate her? When she left me with so much pain and sorrow.. and why do I still love her? And how do i know that she has BPD.. everything fits her like a glove when i read all about BPD's behaviour.. but what if am wrong.. how do you do to get your good  feelings about your ex away? Because what is the meaning to love someone when she doesnt give a PLEASE READ about your love anymore.. ? It has been a month now since she left and i feel like an empty shell here. I thought time would make me feel better but each day without her hurts me more..

[Yoke]

Hi again. I need some advice how you guys did/do when you are stuck with your feelings? I hate to feel like this- miss my ex so i hardly can breathe or eat. Keep thinking of her every day and i cant take my engagering of my finger.. im not just ready for that.. and all the memories kills me and i think am going crazy here. Why cant i hate her? When she left me with so much pain and sorrow.. and why do I still love her? And how do i know that she has BPD.. everything fits her like a glove when i read all about BPD's behaviour.. but what if am wrong.. how do you do to get your good  feelings about your ex away? Because what is the meaning to love someone when she doesnt give a PLEASE READ about your love anymore.. ? It has been a month now since she left and i feel like an empty shell here. I thought time would make me feel better but each day without her hurts me more..

[MidLifCrysis1]

I don't know what it is exactly like for you, based on your situation, but I can tell you that once you are aware that the behaviors exhibited by your BP are not in their control - in fact, not even in their awareness - and that they are not meant to be what the seem like --- and once you know this, you can not really un-know it --- you can't honestly blame them. You can't, nor should you, hate someone for doing something hurtful that they do not intend.

It seems like a tiny thing, but for me anyway, it is a big distinction to classify a hurtful act as conscious and purposeful (hence, sadistic) vs unconscious and incidental (which, by the way, seems to be how many non-BPs end up "hurting" our BPs, since we don't understand what the heck is going on with a given situation).

In short, don't try to hate this person. What good could come from that anyway? It is a hard road to be involved closely with someone with a condition such as BPD. Lament the condition. Lament the loss. But also try to remember how horrid their emotional existence must be. They do not deserve anyone's hate.

[Yoke]

Hi. I agree that you should not hate them. Hate the behaviour.  Even if they are sick and feel awful pain inside of them,  always living with the fear of being Abandonded it does not! Being an excuse for their behaviour like, accustation, lies, the explosive RAGE they show their partbers , family and loved ones. Even if they do all this to protect themselves and not om purpose. They DO hurt us in a very wrong hurtful way..? Dont u agree? If soneone is killing another one in a moment they lost their mind, is that also ok? No it is not... i dont think i will ever hate my ex. I am just hurt by the way she treated me, and just disappeared.. after a lousy textmessage.. it really hurts! I feel soo sorry for her pain abd what she went through as a child.. it hurts me a lot. But nothing gives you the right to treat another one in that abusive way.. we are all humans. Abd we, the non bpd.. we suffer and feel so much pain we too.. when we have been abandonded by them . We have to try fix the damage.. we lost ourselfs by only love them and gave us our unconditionally love.. i will not hate her, i will remember her for the rest of my life. The amazing memories , the bad tines and with the scar on my heart forever. I try to understand them, and i would do anything to have her back in my life.. ironic? ...

[No-One]

  And how do i know that she has BPD.. everything fits her like a glove when i read all about BPD's behaviour.. but what if am wrong..

Don't get hung up on a diagnosis. A diagnosis of BPD can be subjective.  It's not like diagnosing diabetes.  The individual BPD traits are not exclusive to BPD.  Strong BPD traits are generally unacceptable by emotionally healthy people.  Some people might even decide that having one strong BPD trait, could be a deal breaker for a possible partner. (as opposed to having at least 5 of the 9 for a diagnosis)

[Yoke]

Having BPD, does that justify them to act how they want and that you should accept it?..a non BPD also have other "traumas"/ problems in our lives. Everyone has its own story..right? How do you feel guys/girls? And how did u deal with the breakup...?

[Forgiveness]

Having BPD, does that justify them to act how they want and that you should accept it?

Hi Yoke, the BPD diagnosis explains behavior. People with difficult behaviors of all kinds do have an explanation rooted in either childhood or a genetic cause. But the word "justify" is difficult.

The more important question is what do YOU want in a partner and what are YOU willing to put up with. You do not have to accept anything that you don't like. Yes, BPD can be treatable but you're not in control of that. You are in control only of yourself.

As for getting over a breakup, just be gentle with yourself. It's only been one month! You are feeling a lot of pain and that is normal. You won't feel this much pain forever. Be gentle with yourself and allow yourself to feel sad. It's a kind of grief that you have to go through and it will pass eventually. It won't pass as quickly as you would like, but it will pass.  Sometimes a vacation or throwing yourself into something (like exercise) can help, but it's still going to be painful for a while.

[Yoke]

Mid lifcrysis1 thanx for the reply. I understand that they cant control what they feel in the moment. But they must be aware of what they are doing when they yell, are furious, their rage and accusing their partner?  I do understand their pain , emptiness, fear, and all that. And i wish i could take their pain and fear away in some way. My ex wrote me such an evil breakuptextmessage to me.  Saying i have been lying to her, that i sent her messages of how much i loved her and that i went behind her back, that i am insane, have no conscience , i promised to be totally honest, im disrespectful and i need professional help but it wont help, that i am sick.. and she never ever wanted to see me anymore.. " and so on. Then disappeared...now a month ago. The only thing she replied by texted me for 2 weeks ago( when i sent her a letter of how much, and what i loved her for, that i adored her for.. was that "am dating someone new now, so i appreciate that you dont text me anymore"  nothing since then... I do belive she meant every word she said..even though i have heard those words of rage that she wrote to me everytime she broke up with me.. same accusation. Rage.. but never told me WHAT i had done wrong, just THAT i had... and before she came back after i went to her to try say sorry ( for nothing) because i never did anything of what she accused me for.. in her mind- yes. And we were together again.. until next breakup by textmessage.. but not this time. This time she is gone for good i think. Before i think she tested me to see how far she could go and forme to show how much i still loved her, dont u agree on that or am i totally wrong here? But this last time she maybe already had someone new.. Its just one thing i am curious about. Maybe you could help me with? Everytime she broke up with me was when i have left for work. And the day before the "final devaluation"? She begged me 3 times on textmessages "i refuse that you work on Monday! You can't go to work ,! you can't go to work, please! " she has never begged me like that ever.. but i couldnt stay home on Monday. We slept together and next morning i went to work.. the "golden hour later" the final dischargemessage that i told you about came.. and she was gone...

[Yoke]

Thanx @forgiveness. Yes it hurts and it has only gone one month, i know.. but it hurts like hell this pain. Not just that she probably never will come back, also that she already is in a new relationPLEASE READ.. and that i never will see her again. I know i cant treat her, she must realize herself that she needs help.  Then maybe she will be okay. I feel sorry for her behaviour, her huge pain . And i blame myself for hurting her, even though i know that i only did gave her love, and grabbed the stars for her. I did everything she wanted me too. What i want in a partner is HER. I dont care about that she will push/pull. I dont care about her rage and fear of being abandon - because i would never leave her and i can live with this rollercoaster because i just want her back with me. She is all i ever wanted! And this is killing me.. i try exercise, go to theraphy every week.. but the pain wont go away. I love her so much and spent a year with her 24/7.. and its all gone. And i am the one being abandonded here... ironic.. is there any way to get her back or  let her know i will love her for the rest of my life? Or do you think she already knows that? It feels awful to just delete her for good.. but if she dont love me or will do again.. then its no use for me think of her at all. When does it feel better? After 5 months, a year, 2 years? Please share me your experiences .i need you to avoid me going totally insane...

[Wicker Man]

I don't usually post on 'Bettering' but I followed your story here and wanted to give my thoughts on your post -as I don't think my thoughts will be found to be too far out of touch or evocative to the culture of this board.

@Yoke if you really hope to continue "I just want her back with me"  I wish to play devil's advocate just a bit and perhaps give you some things to ponder.  I want nothing but your happiness -if your happiness lies in a future relationship with this person then so be it, but I have some thoughts on the matter.

... i blame myself for hurting her... ... i only did gave her love

Obviously, I don't know the specifics about your relationship dynamic for the year you were together --but there is a good chance you didn't do anything to hurt her.  If this is the case what are you blaming yourself for?  I am sure there are things you could have done better, you are only human, but I would guess you did nothing which would have warranted her running out of your life.  You sound like a very sensitive and compassionate person.

Please read about 'gaslighting' in case it brings some clarity.

What i want in a partner is HER. I dont care about that she will push/pull. I dont care about her rage... ...i can live with this rollercoaster

Ok... but... Why? Why don't you care about these things?  Those things hurt us.  I know how deeply the connection in love can feel.  Love is blind I know! -I was blinded by the searing brilliance of my love for my ex.  Part of this was her and part of it was  limerence (please look this up too), and my childlike romantic belief in the magic of love.  You spent a year with her constantly, 24/7 as you have said, and I think I know how that made you feel.  Being with my ex literally effected my heart rate -I was so happy my heart beat more slowly in her presence.  I had never felt peace like that before -if I was with her I felt all was right in the world.

But... Why do you want to be or deserve to be in a relationship with someone who goes hot and cold on you, rages at you and then leaves?  What you are feeling right now -this pain, confusion, and devastation, IS the rollercoaster.  If she re-appeared that would be another high... but... if she left again you would be back in this low. 

Is the high worth the low you are feeling right now.  I remember it!  I remember waking up after 2 hours of sleep, I remember thinking I heard her voice... -I remember railing against reality.  The low is... very low. 

I was lucky(?)  I have always had a drop dead boundary -no breaking up -she could do whatever else, but never that.  When she crossed that boundary it shocked me into realizing our relationship was not what I thought it was.  I had my view of what was going on and she, perhaps, had another.  But -I agreed with her and we ended things.  She later told me she was just angry and didn't mean it -but I learned this was an arrow in her quiver and saw what the future would likely bring.

She is all i ever wanted!

The fantasy I created in my head was what I wanted.  I wanted someone who loved me, to be the mother of my child, to by my partner in life.  The reality was... well... quite different.

At this point in her life, it is my belief, she is not ready for a healthy relationship.  for her sake I hope one day she finds happiness.  This happiness and contentment will only be possible for her if she gets help.  I could not be the one to help her -you cannot love a personality disorder out of someone --I tried.  We can support them and love them, but relief from such inner psychic pain is only possible through therapy and hard work on their part.

Here is the Catch 22... We cannot love and support them if they break up and leave. 

When does it feel better? After 5 months, a year, 2 years? Please share me your experiences .i need you to avoid me going totally crazy here..

You were in the relationship a year -it might take a year to truly recover.  My relationship lasted 18 month and it took me about a year to not think about her every day.  I have been, and continue, in therapy.  I am very glad you are doing the same.  Now days (18 months out) when I think of her it don't hurt anymore.  I am still confused, but no more pain.  I don't think I will ever forget her, but day by day I think of her less and less.  I still have pity for her and wish her the best, but even those feelings are waning in intensity. 

Write here on BPD family.  Journal.  Spend time with friends.  Take a walk everyday (no phone no music, just listen to the birds and look at flowers).  You will get through this.

The happiness you found with her actually lives within you --you will find it again.

[MidLifCrysis1]

Honestly, Yoke, I don't think she was testing you - at least not in the way (I think) you think.

From what I have come to learn the subconcious universe the BP's mind and heart exist in is a swirling, chaotic, frightening place with black holes, time warps, supernovae, etc. Their outward behavior is a manifestation of what their existence has to do to fight to survive and navigate that universe of dangers and wonders. Testing you? Maybe. But probably not consciously. Probably the same way a child tests a parent - just to become reinforced that you are safe.

If you haven't already, ASAP get and read Stop Walking on Eggshells https://www.google.com/search?q=stop+walking+on+eggshells&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS747US747&oq=stop+walking+on+eggshells&aqs=chrome..69i57.9233j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (or another on the site rec booklist, but this is the only one I have read so far and it was amazing) HINT: There's an excellent audiobook version of it available as well. This will, perhaps, offer you more insight into the confusing elements that seem to be plaguing you.

ALSO: read and then re-read Wicker Man's reply. I think that is full of valuable points to deeply consider.

[Yoke]

@Wicker man. Wow.. All your text made me first cry.. thanx for sharing and be the "devils advocate". It made me also think of what you said and asked me. Why do i not care of all the push/pull, rage , accusation etc.. i may just being stuck in my emotions right now. I in grief and the worst pain now. Missing "us".. my mind is not alright. I am not an evil person and when i love someone i give her 200% of me. All of me. So she knows and feel that she is the one and only.. am passionate, kind and thoughtful person. Never harm anyone. Even if they hurt me. Thats why am going to theraphy.  Because of all this mess and pain, and also to figure out why i am tolerating people treat me bad.. i feel its my fault she is gone. Because of me. And thats because she has written so many messages,and also told me what she has been through.. i can feel her pain and i understand WHY she is like this now.. that makes my heart break because i think that "if" if i listend to her more, acted more loving.. so many "ifs" .. but at the same time i know it wouldnt made any difference- she would leave me sooner or later. Am sad because i opened up my heart and soul to her because i felt she was the one. The only one. I trusted her, but she used that against me.. and that is not love. I understand that she has a disorder and are so much in pain all the time. But as i said before. That is no excuse for their behaviour..i am reading stop walking on eggshells- amazing book! And it helps me a bit. I will keep reading it again. Once i manage to think more clearer i think that in time.. i will not have this feelings anymore for her, at least not strong. And hopefully they fades away with her. I will, or think that i will never stop loving her in a way, because she IS a wonderful woman also. And she thought me a lot during the year. Positive things also.. she will always have a piece of my heart.  You @wicker man know exactly how it feels i quote u " Being with my ex literally effected my heart rate -I was so happy my heart beat more slowly in her presence.  I had never felt peace like that before -if I was with her I felt all was right in the world." - thats how i feel and felt with her... I dont deserve this love, i want someone who loves me, for who i am AND all my flaws.. not just concentrate on the flaws in rage and disappointness, instead feel she loves me anyway. But if she does not get treatment and/or understand she needs help. Then it cant work. Neither with me or someone else? But maybe she finds a guy who can deal with this rollercoaster and are fine with that? Maybe she acts different with someone that is not me? I dont know... i will write to you again Wicker man if its ok with you, and continue to respond all you wrote here. Thanx again! It meant a lot to me.

[Yoke]

@MidLifcrysis1. Thanx to you too

[Wicker Man]

...your text made me first cry...

I am sorry you are so sad, but when you feel like crying -cry.  I know I did...  Well actually I spent some time shellshocked and numb... then cried -but you get the idea.

Never harm anyone. Even if they hurt me.

I was guilty of Childish love 'If I care for you the way I want to be loved -then you will love me that way too.'  I grew up a 'parentified' child.  My mom needed a friend and someone to talk to...  It was me starting around age 6.  The good? I am empathetic, perhaps to a fault.  The bad?  I will put the needs of someone I love above my own once in a while.  A little bit of co-dependence is necessary in a relationship -but too much of a 'good thing' can become toxic.  An abuse and co-dependent dynamic will create a downward spiral consuming both parties. 

I can feel her pain and i understand WHY she is like this now.. that makes my heart break

Oh! Yes...  Leaving her was so incredibly hard, but I had become certain she would leave me.  When I started reading about BPD and learned she is emotionally out of control and acting in a hurtful manner because she is in soul crushing pain it made me so very sad for her.  I was already plenty sad for the loss of 'us'.  I knew we were both going to be hurt badly. 

"if" if i listend to her more, acted more loving.. so many "ifs"

As I said you seem to be kind -maybe even too kind.  I am sure you gave her yourself and your best self.  Try to stop ruminating -I know what I am asking is impossible -but try.  For better or worse I have a good memory for conversation (I can't spell and have no sense of direction... so there is no free lunch).  I spent months running conversations back in my head over and over...  I was looking for a reason where there was not one.  I treated her wonderfully well -even after reviewing our interactions for a year I found nothing I could have done to be more kind -more supportive -more loving.  --I thought she was the dream I never dared to dream -so perfect -I treated her like one would a treasure.

I never raised my voice to her.  I think the hardest thing I ever said to her was 'I am starting to lose my temper -let's talk about this later.'  I would listen to her talk about her dreams and we would spend hours trying to figure them out.  When she was happy -I loved her, when she was sad -I held her, and when she raged -I listened to her.  I did my level best to be the sort of mate I would want -but not with all the Kings Horses and All the Kings Men could I make her feel truly safe.  Rage is caused by fear.  I feel she lives a life motivated by fear and shame -always reacting to pain.

Am sad because i opened up my heart and soul to her because i felt she was the one.

Once again -sadly... I completely understand you.  I wish I had no idea what you are talking about -but you and I walked the same path.  I showed her every corner of my soul -because she seemed to love me all the more for it. To believe we have found our perfect mates and to share so much to then lose them is heartbreaking.  I literally had pain in my chest -like my heart was hurt.

I will never stop loving her in a way, because she IS a wonderful woman...

When Dream Come True is not being consumed by her defense mechanisms she is creative, funny, bright, funny, and kind (I like funny so I put it twice).  I cannot think of any other human being I have enjoyed talking to so very much -her laugh is child like and musical.  We would spend many days in bed just talking and watching movies. 

So... Yes -it is fine and good to recognize your ex is a special person.  BPD is a terrible disorder, but it does come with some 'super powers' -extreme sensitivity and extreme empathy (although when in pain they don't show it.)  It felt like Dream Come True could read my mind -because she could sense how I was feeling -it was haunting and magical.

i want someone who loves me, for who i am.
Never forget this.  Write it down somewhere and look at it often -you are absolutely right!

...maybe she finds a guy who can deal with this rollercoaster and are fine with that? Maybe she acts different with someone that is not me? I dont know...

Anything is possible but somethings are not likely...  I have never and will never say people with BPD do not deserve love -all human being do -I am not in the 'run' camp either.  Believe me I understand how much love we can have for someone suffering from BPD --but if they do not seek treatment then they are not likely to have a healthy and sustainable relationship.  I would actually be so very happy if I learned Dream Come True was in a healthy and happy relationship!  I know we can't be together, but that does not make me hope she stays alone or is unhappy.

My experience with Dream Come True made me want to punch Alfred Tennyson right in the nose... He famously wrote:

'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all'.

@Yoke this will get better -though therapy, introspection and after some time you will find yourself ready to love again and you will find someone who is kind and reciprocates your love in a healthy fashion.

[Yoke]

@Wicker Man. Thanx again for the reply. I feel like you and i have experienced the same thing and feel /felt the same way about our exes. We have walked the same path... I can feel your pain also even though you have come soo much further than me.. am still stuck here right now. Withcrying, the pain, the loss, frustration, anger towards myself, hurting.. all mixed in a huge chaos in my heart and mind. She is in my mind 24/7 .. i thought like you did.." If I care for you the way I want to be loved -then you will love me that way too"... that was never enough.. it was never enough.. As you , i also reconice this " she is emotionally out of control and acting in a hurtful manner because she is in soul crushing pain it made me so very sad for her.  I was already plenty sad for the loss of 'us'.  I knew we were both going to be hurt badly.  
The difference is that YOU left her, i was left by her and that is the most painful for me . Because i think it may would have been easier for me to deal with all this if she would have said " i don't love you anymore/ i   dont feel its gonna work/ i have met someone else..." then it would be easier for me to understand and" accept "that she is gone.. now am just here woundering what has happend , and left with no clue, just with the pain. And that kills me like u described it @Wicker Man   ..
I spent months running conversations back in my head over and over...  I was looking for a reason where there was not one.  I treated her wonderfully well -even after reviewing our interactions for a year I found nothing I could have done to be more kind -more supportive -more loving.  --I thought she was the dream I never dared to dream -so perfect -I treated her like one would a treasure.
Thats exactly how i am feeling.. AND
.. i know that i should not read her messages,  look at photos.. i know i should not be ruminating - but right now am not ready to " let go of her".. silly , i still have the engagementring on me.. but i have ordered another ring that i can wear.. with another text.. so i hope that will heal me a bit. Sorry for that guys. I know it will take time all this..

Am sorry for your childhood"parentified".. but that made you a strong person, emphatic, kind and with a big heart! Am proud of you.  Are you afraid of love somebody again? ..i dont know how i ever will be able to love someone again... but IF i dare, i want someone who loves me for who I am.. all of me..  so how did u overcome your fear? And how long did it take?..i somedays think of find someone new now, to feel love, intimacy talk and hang out with someone-, to calm my pain.. and do just like she does now.. dating someone new.. BUTA I CAN'T... I am not ready for that yet. It would not be right to me/ either to the one i see.. because my heart is not there, and its evil to do such a selfish thing...to somebody else.. and how silly it sounds to you. I would feel like i betrayed my ex in some way... so no...life suxxx right now and i feel i just want to disappear.. wake up from this nightmare. now. Did you guys had it hard to "let go" of everything? Please tell me

[Wicker Man]

 
The difference is that YOU left her...

Well... sort of...  She broke up with me -but it was in a rage and she said she 'didn't mean it'.  Her breaking up with me caused me to wake up at 3am with the sudden epiphany 'There is nothing I could do to keep her from leaving me one day'.  The thought was terrifying and clear as a bell tolling.  I had forgiven, overlooked and swept under the rug so many bad behaviors on her part.  Each thing on its own could be explained -but that fateful morning at 3am all of the data points suddenly became a clear picture.  I was not the only boy for her and one day she would choose another -and disappear.  That is bad enough -but... to make things more complicated I was planning to move from the US to mainland China to be with her.  This relationship blowing up would have been very very hard for me to recover from.  We were talking about having a baby -that would have made her leaving catastrophic.  Shared custody of a child is complicated, but if it is international then...   So I felt I had no other rational choice but to agree with her to end it.

...if she would have said " i don't love you anymore...

From what I understand about people suffering from BPD this would have been incredibly hard for her.  You are using your logic again -which presumes there was a tangible reason for her leaving the relationship.  There is no way to know why she bolted -I would guess she may not know.  You read here over and over 'Feelings are facts'.  Emotions are felt much more deeply by someone with BPD and this can be overwhelming.  Once overwhelmed their defense mechanisms kick into gear -Rage, impulsive behavior, depression, self harm.  I believe unfortunately once they feel threatened or afraid they react in a dramatic and unpredictable fashion.  Keep in mind this threat can come from within their own psyche.  I read where one girl suffering from BPD wrote she literally had trouble remembering her boyfriends face only moment from him leaving their apartment. 

...And that kills me like u described it...

We went from incredibly happy to done in 2 weeks.  I left Beijing and said I will see you in a couple weeks -Waving to her in the airport was the last time (with any luck) I will have seen her.  I do not want to see her again -She had my name tattooed on her hand 3 months after we broke up, she is still using my surname on a social media account, still wearing our engagement ring and a pair of earrings I gave her.  Suffering from this level delusional and I don't know what would happen if we met face to face.

...i know that i should not read her messages,  look at photos...

I am a photographer -and I knew I had to archive all of our photos.  One day maybe I will delete the archive -but I sure don't open it.  Perhaps speak to your therapist about a strategy for not looking.  I also deleted all of our thousands of chat messages.

Am sorry for your childhood...

I think I got pretty lucky in the parent department.  There is no free lunch in childhood.  Parents do the best they know how --and then the kids end up in therapy...


[Trigger warning infidelity]

Are you afraid of love somebody again? ... ...so how did u overcome your fear? And how long did it take?...

I am sorry to admit Dream Come True was my affair partner.  It was not something I thought I was capable of -but I was wrong.  I was leaving my marriage to be with her.  My wife asked me to reconcile around the time things blew up with my affair partner. 

My wife and I are reconciled and working through the affair and a lot of other issues.  Yes -I was terrified to try to start my marriage again.  I left it because the relationship was slowly dying -I had tried to get my wife to couple's counseling and she had refused -We had become roommates and financial partners.  She suffers from OCPD -which is a Cluster-C disorder.  I jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire of Cluster-B (Cluster -B includes BPD and 3 other personality disorders). 

Ok... My wife did not say this, but it typifies a marriage with someone who has OCPD 'I told you I love you 3 years ago -if something changes I will let you know'.  No validation, no warmth.  I kept trying to love the disorder out of her --we cannot.  Only they can change and only through therapeutic intervention is this possible.

Trying to rebuild my marriage and disclose an affair was a herculean task for both my wife and I.  I wish we could have tried to rebuild with our the specter of my betrayal -however I am certain only a catastrophe of this magnitude could have shocked my wife into going to therapy and getting us into couples.  A silver lining in a very dark cloud.

I am not ready for that yet.

To have to mourn the loss of my relationship with Dream Come True quietly on my own while simultaneously trying to sift through the ashes of our marriage looking for embers was emotionally crushing for me.  We have come out the other side of this.  Our marriage is now a marriage -we are having a better time now than any other in the last 25 years. -so there is a happy ending to a horrifically painful story.

I agree dating right now would be ill advised.  You need to give yourself time to process this, mourn the loss, and figure out how you can put your needs first.  It feels great to do things for our partners -but a relationship must be a two way street. 

i just want to disappear..

Do you have friends you can spend time with? If not take your journal to a coffee shop to be around people.  Seeing 'normal' life going on will help. 

Did you guys had it hard to "let go" of everything?

It was tough to get rid of the things she gave me.  I threw some away and gave other things to friends.  Yes -it was hard, but necessary.  Replacing your engagement ring is a good idea.

[Yoke]

@Wicker Man.. Am so sorry she also brokeup with you in rage.! But as you wrote "nothing i could do to keep her from leaving me one day' - that i think its true.. i feel the same. Im so sorry for that. You said that " I had forgiven, overlooked and swept under the rug so many bad behaviors on her part.  Each thing on its own could be explained -but that fateful morning at 3am all of the data points suddenly became a clear picture.  I was not the only boy for her and one day she would choose another -and disappear. That's similar to mine.. and that hurts like hell.   But you know that yourself, and others here. We have more or less similar stories about this. Each painful in different ways.. But can i as you @Wicker Man  , what do you mean by this :  From what I understand about people suffering from BPD this would have been incredibly hard for her... that you replied to my " if she would have said " i don't love you anymore.. why would that be so incredibly hard for her? .. i dont understand that? Why is that so? I thought that one of the reasons could be that they did not love you anymore was a perfect reason to devaluate you. A good reason.! Explain please..
Its brave to you to admit your affair Wicker Man. I can understand you in some ways because your wife suffers from  OCPD.. its never right to have an affair when you have somebody else, but i feel that you have been through a lot with this women. I could never cheat on my girlfriend, but we are all different and i understand you. And you learned something about it, and did not give up, and you are a couple now and i am happy for you, really! I knew you are strong and i love happy endings. You are  right, i will not see anybody or just date someone to fill the emptyness of her.. it will not bring me any good at all.. i probably will feel worse. And also, not right for the woman.. i need to take time to heal. In my way. And gof knows it will take time. Because it feels she had ripped my heart out and there is just a black bleeding hole in me. Am not capable to love someone now.. i must rebuild my love for myself first. The hardest part.. About the replacement ring.. Right now.. it feels like i have to do and have that. Another ring wich  in it is engrave her initial and "It was you or no one else".. now you wonder why i want that.?  Crazy, but in someway i honour her by that because we both said from the very first month we started to see eachother as a couple.. "I'ts you or no one else"... so i will keep that "promise" until i am ready to let her go... that is my healing in some way. Stupid? Yes maybe.. but that shows ME, how i am.  I cant just turn my emotions off, pretend i dont care or love and then just move on like nothing has happend.. today i cried all time at my therapist.. some days are tougher than others.. but to cry is a way to heal- that i have learned from you here. Even if it also makes me so angry and frustrated to feel this because she is not worth the pain am feeling . So day by day i try here. Did you guys felt such anger and frustration also? After the breakup? Or just sad and cried for months? Please respond of your experiences if you like. I would be grateful for that...

[Yoke]

@Wicker Man. Thanx again for the reply. I feel like you and i have experienced the same thing and feel /felt the same way about our exes. We have walked the same path... I can feel your pain also even though you have come soo much further than me.. am still stuck here right now. Withcrying, the pain, the loss, frustration, anger towards myself, hurting.. all mixed in a huge chaos in my heart and mind. She is in my mind 24/7 .. i thought like you did.." If I care for you the way I want to be loved -then you will love me that way too"... that was never enough.. it was never enough.. As you , i also reconice this " she is emotionally out of control and acting in a hurtful manner because she is in soul crushing pain it made me so very sad for her.  I was already plenty sad for the loss of 'us'.  I knew we were both going to be hurt badly.  
The difference is that YOU left her, i was left by her and that is the most painful for me . Because i think it may would have been easier for me to deal with all this if she would have said " i don't love you anymore/ i   dont feel its gonna work/ i have met someone else..." then it would be easier for me to understand and" accept "that she is gone.. now am just here woundering what has happend , and left with no clue, just with the pain. And that kills me like u described it @Wicker Man   ..
I spent months running conversations back in my head over and over...  I was looking for a reason where there was not one.  I treated her wonderfully well -even after reviewing our interactions for a year I found nothing I could have done to be more kind -more supportive -more loving.  --I thought she was the dream I never dared to dream -so perfect -I treated her like one would a treasure.
Thats exactly how i am feeling.. AND
.. i know that i should not read her messages,  look at photos.. i know i should not be ruminating - but right now am not ready to " let go of her".. silly , i still have the engagementring on me.. but i have ordered another ring that i can wear.. with another text.. so i hope that will heal me a bit. Sorry for that guys. I know it will take time all this.. 

Am sorry for your childhood"parentified".. but that made you a strong person, emphatic, kind and with a big heart! Am proud of you.  Are you afraid of love somebody again? ..i dont know how i ever will be able to love someone again... but IF i dare, i want someone who loves me for who I am.. all of me..  so how did u overcome your fear? And how long did it take?..i somedays think of find someone new now, to feel love, intimacy talk and hang out with someone-, to calm my pain.. and do just like she does now.. dating someone new.. BUTA I CAN'T... I am not ready for that yet. It would not be right to me/ either to the one i see.. because my heart is not there, and its evil to do such a selfish thing...to somebody else.. and how silly it sounds to you. I would feel like i betrayed my ex in some way... so no...life suxxx right now and i feel i just want to disappear.. wake up from this nightmare. now. Did you guys had it hard to "let go" of everything? Please tell me

[Wicker Man]

That's [hurtful behavior] similar to mine.. and that hurts like hell. 

What I keep coming back to is the notion we cannot love disorder out of someone.  We can love and be supportive, but change can only come from within.   Until someone wants to change for themselves, as they cannot possibly manage such a feat for someone else, the trajectory of their lives will remain the same.  I fear my ex is doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over -she will either end up with someone abusive or she will end up with another 'nice' guy and tear him apart.  I don't know how much of what she said about her past relationships I can believe  -but she described some of them as physically and mentally abusive... Sadly, from anecdotal experience I am guessing she gave as good as she got.  Part of her is smart, funny, creative -but oh the darkness which can blot out all of her goodness!

...people suffering from BPD this would have been incredibly hard for her... to say" i don't love you anymore.. why?

I base this presumption on a few factors.  First and most importantly when pushed into a corner emotionally someone suffering from BPD can disassociate.  This is a defense mechanism to pain.  When we (all humans) feel threatened our limbic system begins to release hormones (flight, flight, freeze) -we all know the feeling.

When some one suffering from BPD begins to fall into this state it can, I believe,  create a feedback loop. The defenses create the need for more defenses.  --Once again this is only theory on my part -but if your ex felt she needed to leave suddenly it is likely because she was completely overwhelmed emotionally -there was no room for any thought of you or anything else (flight).  I saw this sort of a feedback loop in Dream Come True's rage -her rage would self propagate and it could go on for some time.

Dr. John Gottman coined a phrase Diffuse Physiological Arousal to describe what is happening when we go into fight, flight, fear mode.  Here are the two most salient points                               
                             --  increased amygdala activation
                             --  decreased frontal lobe activation
The genetic component to the predisposition for BPD it lies in the amygdala.

Prior neuroimaging studies have indicated that BPD patients have (1) excessive amygdala activation to negative emotion and (2) diminished frontal regulation.

excerpt from abstract Amygdala Functional Connectivity in Young Women with Borderline Personality Disorder

So what the hell does that mean?  The limbic system, of which the amygdala is part of, helps create emotional response.  When it goes into overdrive emotional response becomes more severe.  The frontal lobe is the rational mind -which serves to keep emotional response in check.   So when extremely stressed we literally cannot think straight.  'So angry I could not see straight'  -this literally happens -we also literally don't hear as well. 

When in this state people with BPD can experience disassociation, psychotic events, rage, dysphoria, their sense of time can be dilated, dichotomous thinking (black and white), they can become extremely impulsive, act out with promiscuity and so on. 

My point once again -when someone with BPD are pushed, by either internal or external stimuli, into this state they are reacting not acting.  Think of an injured and scared animal -they are dangerous because they just react.  My therapist told me part of DBT is learning the feeling before this feedback loop begins -because even with DBT if they slip into this state they cannot think their way out of it.  It takes discipline and training to feel it coming and calm down. 

I thought that one of the reasons could be that they did not love you anymore was a perfect reason to devaluate you.

You are looking for logic from someone who is ruled by emotions which are out of control.  You will not find the logic of a neuro-typical in her actions.

Ok here is an example.  Dream Come True worked with a very dangerous producer -he grabbed her and kissed her at a dinner.  Had offered her money for sex -you get the idea.  I asked Dream Come True to promise to never be alone with him or get drunk in his presence.  Well... She did.  She was texting me and could barely make words.  I was really scared.  So the next day I sent her notes about how important it was to keep herself safe for her family and me.  I never said anything worse than 'We had this promise for a reason'  Her response was rage 'Never ask me to promise anything again'... 

I didn't know about BPD -I was just doing the best I could.  I am afraid I made her feel more shame than she already was. (people with BPD do have a moral compass -but impulsive behavior can make them act against these principles -resulting in shame)  Even though she knew what she did  was dangerous (aka stupid) --but 'I am sorry' would have been admitting to shame.  With dichotomous thinking if she admitted to this shame then she is completely bad. 

...So now she has shame... What to do?... hmmmm...  Well... Obvious!  Stop talking to me and hope in bed with an actor...  Where is the logic? There isn't any.  No logic in impulsively getting drunk with a man she knew was dangerous, no logic in not being able talk the situation through, no logic in closing her heart to me and cheating on us.  She ghosted me for a week during this interval -it was a horrible week.

Its brave to you to admit your affair

Ugh... I don't consider myself brave -but I will not double down on a bad bet.  There are arguments for disclosing and for keeping it secret.  In my case I believed discloser was best.  One also has to be very careful in not turning disclosure into some perverse lust for absolution -it is not a confession at church to wash away sins. It is to be the beginning of rebuilding a shattered trust.

... its never right to have an affair... ...I could never cheat on my girlfriend... ...we are all different...

I thought these very same things.  I thought it was something I could never do.  I thought by sublimating all of my desire into my work it was enough.  Apparently, I had accumulated a huge subconscious debt.  The lack of emotional and physical and and demonstrative love came ripping thought my subconscious (I knew theoretically she loved me, she just never could show it).  When I met Dream Come True I knew in that moment I didn't care about my marriage anymore -it felt lonely and sad. 

This horrible turn of event has given my wife and I the impetus to actually act like people who love each other...  It feels nice.

...i must rebuild my love for myself first.

“To say ‘I love you’ one must first know how to say the ‘I.’ The meaning of the ‘I’ is an independent, self-sufficient entity that does not exist for the sake of any other person. A person who exists only for the sake of his loved one is not an independent entity, but a spiritual parasite. The love of a parasite is worth nothing.”
                                                                               ― Ayn Rand
Rand's views are dichotomous and hard -they cut like a razor  --it does not necessarily make her wrong.

"It was you or no one else"...

She used to say 'Always and Forever' (... or until I forget we are a couple and sleep with someone else, or rage for a week and break us...)  I guess it was just shorter to say always and forever. and leave out the other bits...  What makes this so confusing is she meant all of it with all of her heart all of the time -the love, the cheating and the break up.  All completely real and 'logical' for her in the moment.

I am sorry about the ring.  She is still wearing my mom's engagement ring... So yes... I understand ring issues. 

Why?  well... my wife and I never had an engagement.  We got married to save taxes on a house I was selling...  No cake, no dress, we were married at the airport.  So our entire time together has been a mess -she moved into my house so she could stay in college...  We are amazing financial partners, really good friends, but we have to work hard on the actual 'love' part -thank goodness it is happening now... better late than never.  I have been trying to lead by example and other than the affair I have been really good to her -but you cannot love a personality disorder out of some one... I tried for 25 years.

I cant just turn my emotions off

No you cannot -and if you did there would be hell to pay later in life.  You are doing the right thing in grieving your loss.

...she is not worth the pain am feeling.

I cannot agree here.  You loved her and in her way she loved you -so you are feeling the painful loss of love.  I don't hate Dream Come True -but I also know a life with her would be full of endless pain and confusion.  She wants me back desperately in this moment -that does not mean she could keep this idea straight in her head.  It would get mixed up again, she would rage, cheat and leave.  I don't hate her I pity her.  She wants to love and be loved -but her emotions are completely out of check and she destroys that which she craves so badly.

She was my schedule 1 drug... A drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical treatment use

Did you guys felt such anger and frustration... ...After the breakup?

I felt like a bomb had gone off.  I felt numb, confused, lost, sad, depressed, and alone.  This quote really sums up how I felt.

"Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now?
                                                                        --Nietzsche

Much like Rand...

[Yoke]

@Wicker Man. Thanx for explaining and the patience with me.. you know,  the hardest thing to understand of bpd, is that they crave for love so much but they destroy it with their own fear of being abandonded..the push and pull cycle.. when u come to close- they disappear..

"but if your ex felt she needed to leave suddenly it is likely because she was completely overwhelmed emotionally -there was no room for any thought of you or ".. exactly this its so hard to deal with.. overwhelmed by love or fear? Either one is so hard to understand because i would never harm/hurt or leave her. She owned my heart..

 I Think the same as you " i fear my ex is doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over -she will either end up with someone abusive or she will end up with another 'nice' guy and tear him apart.. that i belive my ex future brings her. She had a sleepingpartner when she fell in love ?with me, then me, and after her final devaluation, she wrote to me 3 weeks later " i date someone new "... i really hope that she finds true love and will be happy, because she deserves it. I feel pity for her as you do with your ex.  One of my painful thoughts is that (i am gay, been it since 17 years ago) my ex has been heterosexual all her life. And never ever thought she would even think of being with a woman. Just the thought of it made her feel "sick". She told me that when we started to see eachother. But she said it felt so "right" and when we were a couple, she said she would never, ever go back to  be with men again. And the thought of having sex with a man, now when she had been with me, she can't go back to men ever. That , is too me also painful and I feel so dumb that i belived all this.. because i think its just another lie she told me in the "idealisation phase".. but for me it is so much bigger and important to me..its intimitate. Do you get it? I feel ashamed that i trusted her words and im almost sure that she sleeps with men now.. that makes me angry and sad too. One thing i have also thought about, is what u said @Wicker Man

"I don't know how much of what she said about her past relationships I can believe  -but she described some of them as physically and mentally abusive... Sadly, from anecdotal experience I am guessing she gave as good as she got.  Part of her is smart, funny, creative -but oh the darkness which can blot out all of her goodness! "  Me, when i think about what she told me about her former relationships.. i dont know what to think and trust about it. She had one relationship  for 10 years with a man she met when she was 13 years old. They got a child together. He was an elite cyclist and all she did was to serve him with all things. They never went out see friends, no drinking, just home. She broke up with him when they was just going to buy a house. Left him... then she met another guy, who she said she loved, then suddenly he got killed in an caraccident. That i belive. She still mourns him. She was pregnant and lost their child while she was depressed after the grief of him. Then she has have just temporary men she slept with and a man who was engaged, but they had an affair.. then Me. When i started to see her, talking on messenger, she once told me "why do you think i have only been dating occupied men?  Its because they are occupied and i am afraid to have an relationship, not because of the relationship but to get hurt"  that i have been thinking of a lot now.. and i wish i was smart enough to understand the signal before...i dont think she ever had a happy relationship with love. And now when she met me, who thrown so much love to her, she got terrified and devaluated me for good.. ? But i know also that she would have left me anyway someday.. but maybe.. this was one of the reasons?

[Wicker Man]

...Thanx for explaining...

I am happy to share my thoughts. My defense against the unknown is to try to learn everything I can.  I needed to try to understand why, when I thought we were so very happy, our relationship was meant to bring so much pain.

...when u come to close- they disappear...

Do you read other posts on these boards?  Read about some of the relationships where the people are trying so hard to keep their loved ones happy.  There is so much pain it is palpable.  Read about the relationships which are 20 or 30 years old. 

Have a look at this video -it might help you.  This woman has recovered from BPD and is now a counselor (I don't know how she is licensed) www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYpH8VQmqSE   she speaks about loving an untreated borderline -she is very compassionate -as I said she used to have it.

i would never harm/hurt or leave her. She owned my heart..

Oh believe me I understand -and with so much love how can it not work?  This had me confused for a long time -but I had to accept it takes two.  It is the idea of "I".  I have never said 'love you' to anyone I always include the "I".  I believe she lacked a sense of "I".  She was lost inside and did not have the ability to hold on to our love.  My folly was believing our love was strong enough to give her a healthy space to heal -I didn't know about BPD.  I believed her diagnosis of Bi-Polar / schizophrenic -both of these conditions respond well to a stable home.  I thought between my love and the love of her family she could let her guard down and be at peace...  Nope

She had a sleeping partner when she fell in love with me...

I was so optimistic and blind!  My ex claimed she had been avoiding her current boyfriend for months, didn't love him, wanted to end it...  Well...  I accepted all of these 'truths'.  He flew 1000 miles to where we were working to have dinner with her -why?  I now guess she ghosted him and he had no idea she had stopped loving him.  He had given her an apartment in Beijing -I believe he thought they were engaged...  She chopped him off at the knees when she found a new shiny penny -me...

I thought she was special... I thought she was honest.  The first time she came to my room she was wearing nothing but a very short bathrobe.  I was shocked!  I told her 'You cannot walk around a hotel dressed like that -it isn't safe.'  Oh what a fool I was.  I now believe She had planned to jump right in bed -we spoke for 4 hours, I gave her a hug and sent her on her way...  How many times has she shown up at a guy's door wearing next to nothing?  I was so naive.  I wanted what was between her ears -not between her legs.  I am guessing she must have thought I was crazy...

"i date someone new "

I broke no contact around Christmas to get some closure and perhaps help her on her life's journey.   She made it clear she was waiting for me to come back to her... I was also able to piece together she is living with someone else... What does this mean?  She would destroy this new guy, just like the last guy -to come back to me... Well... Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior...  In other words... Yes... She would come back to me and then... one day she would find someone new and I would be destroyed too.

While she was at the dinner with her soon to be ex she was texting me while breaking up with him -brutal!  She sent me a text 'I told him I love you'...  I wrote back 'him "you" or me "you"?'  In the moment I still thought this was some lucky, once in a life time, sent from heaven,  fairytale --instead of a dysfunctional person who could turn completely cold.

...i am gay... ...my ex has been heterosexual all her life. And never ever thought she would even think of being with a woman.

Yes, I followed the pronouns in the thread I knew you are gay.  With all due respect I don't think it matters.  Love is love and people are people.  Mine claimed she had never been with a woman -but I don't really know.  Most of our roommates were gay -I think most of her female friends are.  They were an amazing group! -all artists.  I miss them.  It was a really fun place to be, there was always something being drawn or carved.  Your situation made me think of this one couple.

The one girl was smart and sweet and her girlfriend suffers from DID. The girl with DID could be sweet or raging.  My ex thought Feng Shui was important... I said and what about that?  pointing to their door (they were screaming at each other)... My ex said -yes that isn't good energy...   I laughed at the understatement... 

...I feel so dumb that i belived all this.. because i think its just another lie she told me...

I would guess she meant it when she said it.  I really believe this. 

She had one relationship  for 10 years with a man she met when she was 13 years old. They got a child together.

Mine had an abortion at the beginning of the year we met.  The father was her boss at work -his new baby from his marriage was born a week after the abortion.  She still continued to work with him.  I believe now they were likely still sleeping together.  So much sadness and pain.

They never went out see friends, no drinking, just home. She broke up with him when they was just going to buy a house.

You know you just described my relationship right?  All of it.  The last 2 weeks we were together she cancelled our trip to Thailand, we only went out to see her grandparents -otherwise we ate all our meals in the hotel... and 3 weeks later we were done.

"why do you think i have only been dating occupied men?  Its because they are occupied and i am afraid to have an relationship, not because of the relationship but to get hurt"

I heard from the nice roommate her previous boyfriend (dinner guy) may have beeb married too.  That would make three married men in a row.  She never told me dinner guy was married -and where he got $1.5mm to buy an apartment for her I don't know.  Although there are a lot of spoiled rich kids in Beijing. 

My guess now is she thought I was 'safe' because I was a foreign married man.  Well... we really fell in love and tore each other's hearts out.  I ended up with 18 months of therapy (and counting) and she ended up with an ex lover's name on her hand and a name that means nothing now on her social media account.  I don't think she every thought we would last -I think I was initially to be a distraction to get away from dinner guy.  Instead I was the guy she brought home to her family -the family lost so much face!  Their entire block threw a huge outdoor party when we went to her home town.  Meeting her family was the happiest week of my life.

...she would have left me anyway someday.. but maybe.. this was one of the reasons?

Logic?  again?  The reason, I would guess, as you have described the situation, would be... She either suffers from BPD or has enough of the traits that a healthy relationship is impossible for her at this stage in her life. 

Please try not to think about who she is with -man, woman -it is all the same.  It isn't you, it isn't personal -it is, likely, just how she tries to cope with her pain.

It used to bother me, the idea of her being with another brutal lover. (Some men in China retreat women like things -there is no sexual education in China and woman's bodies are not understood and feared in some ways -Ha!  I had to explain a thing or two about basic biology to her --and it was her body!). 

She told me she trusted me and felt safe with sex for the first time.  This may or may not be true.  Hell!  I am afraid (from piecing together several conversations) she may have been a sex worker in her teens when she left home and moved to Shang Hai.  All just tragically sad.

Please spend some time reading what other people write here.  It is good to see other opinions.  I am opinionated and express my point of view with strength and conviction -it doesn't necessarily make it right.  I tell my truth -see what other have said too.  I do my best -but I do feel my views are not necessarily always common.

Keep reading -keep writing.  The only way out of pain is to go through it.  I think you are doing a great job.

[Yoke]

@Wicker Man. Thanx again.  I must ask you, why do you think this? " she will either end up with someone abusive or she will end up with another 'nice' guy and tear him apart.  I don't know how much of what she said about her past relationships I can believe  -but she described some of them as physically and mentally abusive... Sadly, from anecdotal experience I am guessing she gave as good"  dont you think she will find someone "normal" guy and be happy? Is it so that they always has this behaviour with the rage, makeup/breakup in  the relationship?  Will they most always start to find negative things after the idelisationphase"? Because when we come to close.. can the devaluation never be avioded? Because my ex  had before a 10 year relationship.. so  im confused..

"I believe she lacked a sense of "I". .. @Wicker Man. How do u mean with this? She was lost inside and did not have the ability to hold on to our love. "  I thought myself this You  also said "My folly was believing our love was strong enough to give her a healthy space to heal "  I still dont know if my ex is an uBpd but 99 %.. but it soes not matter if its BPD or something else, in some way she a very sick behaviour when it comes to love. The explosive rage, the foully mean textmessage she has sent to me all the time when she broke up with me. That is what i need to focus on to heal. She is a stunning, sexy woman with eyes blue like hell, kind, thoughtful, loving .. and i love her for that ..BUT.. the flipside when all the darkness are shown.. that is really scary and hurtful.. and that i can't ever love or accept living with. That is for me not love. As you also said "
I wanted what was between her ears -not between her legs.  I am guessing she must have thought I was crazy..."  that was what i wanted to from her. Why do you think she must thought you were crazy? @Wicker Man? Do they think we only want sex? Sex is for me a part of the relationship, but not the main thing. Can you explain it?

[Wicker Man]

...why do you think this? [her next relationship -someone abusive or ...'nice' guy] --don't you think she will find someone "normal" guy and be happy?

My supposition, about her next relationship, is based on two things -one my own experience as a 'nice' guy and having read about people with BPD being involved with sufferers of NPD.  Narcissistic personality disorder and Borderline personality disorder can somehow mesh is a dysfunctional lasting attraction.  I have read this notion in a few different articles -this one is not badly written:
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/understanding-narcissism/201711/why-do-narcissists-and-borderlines-fall-in-love

As a gross generalization the two most prevalent dynamics tend to be either a co-dependent or a Narcissist. -Neither of these dynamics are healthy.

It is important to look at your actions in this failed relationship to see how you could do better next time -but I am guessing most of the issues were caused my your ex's BPD traits.  Could you ex have found someone nicer than you?   Something I tried to teach Dream Come True is there cannot be a winner and a loser in our relationship -either we both win or we both lose.  We were supposed to be a team -two different, but equal people.

Could she just find a good guy and settle down, living happily ever after?  The short answer is -without treatment there is very little chance of this. Remember I keep saying 'we cannot love the personality disorder out of them'.  BPD has some ego-syntonic characteristics -they believe they are right and what they are doing is normal. 

It takes someone with a severe personality disorder hitting rock bottom to realize something is not right with them.  You and I have a worldview and it more or less works for us, however the worldview of someone with BPD contains a lot of shame, pain and mistrust.  Their world view hurts them and the ones they love -but they still feel their view is valid and correct.  I sometimes think of a personality disorder as the lens through which someone sees their world.

I keep coming back to the idea of object consistency or object permanence (look these up if you are not familiar with the concepts).  We read over and over someone with sever BPD has the emotional age of 3-5 years old.  Have you ever watched a toy just fall from a baby's hand?  They aren't thinking about it and the toy simply falls to the ground as the find something new of interest.  This is what I imagine happened the time she ghosted me and hooked up with the actor. 

Our conversations leading up to that week were about our future and our living arrangements -we were so happy talking about where and how we would live.  Then she went to that dinner with the #metoo producer -I was unhappy about it.  After I confronted her on doing something dangerous and breaking her promise to 'us' -I fell from her grasp.  I believe during that time she could not remember us and the love we had had for each other only a few days before. 

I remember the phone call we were on she said 'Oh! I have to get off the phone... an actor has brought cake.'  I said 'Oh -that's nice'... It wasn't until the next day she stopped sending messages that I did the math and figured out it was 11pm when he came to her room...

How can we keep love with someone who can literally forget about us?  How can you build the foundation of love when the past can be distorted by their perception or forgotten all together?

...my ex  had before a 10 year relationship.. so  im confused [can they have a lasting relationship]...

Read on this very board 'Bettering a relationship or reversing a break up.'  Some of these people have been in long relationships -but they can be very rocky and painful.  Ok -she had a ten year relationship -but was it happy?  Healthy? 

How do u mean with this? ["I believe she lacked a sense of "I"]

We read people suffering from BPD lack a strong sense of personal identity.
"Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self." is one of the 9 diagnostic criteria for BPD.
This article is technical -but really worth reading www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3494330/

If her view of herself is in flux how can she hold on to the idea of love in a lasting relationship?  How can you say 'I' and mean it when one's view of 'I' changes from time to time?

An example when we met she was acting like a rich person (like ex boyfriend).  After we fell in love she started acting like someone with strong family values (like me).  Initially we started talking because her special effects make up was some of the best I had ever photographed -SFX make up was incredibly important to her.  When we were engaged I told her I thought she should go to Hollywood to study makeup -the best school in the world is there.  She said she didn't like makeup any more and wanted to do something different (maybe working as my agent and interpreter).  When we last spoke SFX makeup was all she ever wanted to do...  again -I am guessing this is the influence of her ex boyfriend boss (father of her aborted child... the one she left for the rich kid)

I ... dont know ... if its BPD or something else...

Neither of us is qualified to diagnose someone of a personality disorder -but yes you are right the label doesn't matter.  Both of our ex's had something serious going on which makes a stable, healthy, and lasting relationship unlikely at best and impossible in the worst case.  Unfortunately, while I was with Dream Come True I saw literally all 9 of the diagnostic criteria for BPD -one needs 5 of them to be considered to possibly have BPD. 

She did stop binge drinking while we were together, so that meant she only had 1 of the 2 impulsive behavioral problems -but that still leaves 8 of the 9 other criteria.  Before we met she ended up in the hospital because she had alcohol poisoning -nearly died from drinking.  When she started she would not stop and she weighs under 43kg

FYI here are the diagnostic criteria for BPD:
1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behaviour covered in criterion 5.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. Impulsivity in at least 2 areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behaviour covered in criterion 5.

5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour.

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness.

8. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

                        -from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision.

...the ... mean text message she has sent to me all the time when she broke up with me. That is what i need to focus on to heal.

Mine sent me a message completely full of vitriol on my birthday.  She was raging and didn't know what day it was.  It was Christmas a week later she broke up with me. 

She is a stunning, sexy woman with eyes blue like hell, kind, thoughtful, loving .. and i love her for that ..BUT..

Oh -I understand...  Dream Come True's eyes are black as night and her best feature.  When her smile touches her eyes it is breath taking.  She and I dyed her hair teal green -she looked like an anime character.  I am afraid she believes her sexuality is her only value.  I don't think she really believed anyone could love what is inside of her, only lust after her. 

In our last conversation (when I broke no contact) we were trying to talk about the actor issue.  She denied it and denied it and then sent me a text 'If, just if something bad happened...' I told her '...Something bad did happen -you made me not trust you and until you stop using sex as a weapon or a tool people will see you as a thing instead of the wonderful person you really are.'  She never responded.  Ironically for someone who lied often she was terrible at it. 

I had a meeting with the guy she spent the night with after a date... We were talking on the phone as I walked  to the meeting and she said 'He might tell you terrible lies about what happened that night...'  She was so horrible at lying!  What she really told me in that statement is 'I slept with him'.  Obviously... she never even came up during the course meeting -we were talking about a future movie project.

... i can't ever love or accept living with [bad treatment]. That is for me not love...

Amen sister!  Write this one down and put it on the refrigerator -you deserve to be loved by someone you can count on when life gets hard.  You don't need to be worried your partner will blow up at any moment and start screaming at you.  There are healthy and happy people in the world -and when you are ready you will find one.

...Why do you think she must thought you were crazy? ...Do they think we only want sex?

I am guessing she was very surprised, when she came to my room in the tiny robe, I put on tea and we sat in chairs and just talked.  I am afraid this isn't likely to be the first time she has gone to a man's room nearly naked -but I am guessing it is the first time the man was thrilled just to talk with her.  -I didn't know her at this point and sleeping with her was not on my mind.

I warned her, once we became intimate, sex was not a lever for control -it is an expression of mutual love.  If she wanted me that was great -and if she didn't that was fine too. 

My wife had suffered from severe intimacy issues and she had weaponized sex during our relationship when I was young  she withheld sex as an expression of anger.  Over the years I managed to let it not hurt so badly.  So when poor Dream Come True tried to withhold sex (which had likely been a powerful tool in her past relationships) I told her it was fine - I was happy to just spend time with her -which was true.  Begging for sex or getting angry would have only made real intimacy less likely.

For me there is no sex without love -I just don't understand it.  If I don't care for someone, then I don't care how they feel and thus there is no empathetic connection - which, in my opinion, is necessary for good sex.

She seems to be somehow obsessed with sex and its imagery -I am afraid she feels it is her only real value -her only way to have power in a relationship.  She is pretty and being a makeup artist she presents herself well -but perhaps it is to an unhealthy extent. 

She has tattoos and had some cosmetic surgery done -When we met I thought this was the self expression of an artist -but I now fear she needs the thrill and empty validation of people chasing her.  She would often walk to the bathroom in our apartment wearing little to nothing -I have a feeling she liked having the other girls in the apartment see her.

What a mess...  I am amazed how blind I was to the dysfunction in the moment.  Now looking back I can see the relationship was not built to last -however in the moment I thought I had found my perfect match.

[Yoke]

 Thanx @Wicker Man. It was thoughtful of you write back and give me advice!

It is not easy to deal with bpd. Its easy to fall in love and love them because they are wonderful caring and loving... But when they flip - oh my... i really try to not think about her but my mind is stuck on it. How do you guys do to get rid of the thoughts of your ex?

[Wicker Man]

How do you guys do to get rid of the thoughts of your ex?

That seems to be easier said than done.  It does take time, but you have to make good use of that time.  As I said earlier journalling helped me -having to think things through enough to put the thoughts into writing is a good exercise.

Spend time with friends.  Self care is really important -walking, eating and sleeping right, don't drink too much, yoga or some other physical activity.  I found myself mildly depressed and nothing was fun -so I kept doing the things which I had found fun in the past to form a habit.  I made myself ride my bike, go to the gym, hike.  Now those things have slowly begun to be fun again -but it took time.

Please put the photos of her away, get her things out of your house,  put the ring away,  if there are other gifts from her put them away somewhere, don't check her social media. 

Try to find things you can do when obtrusive thoughts of her come to you E.g. cleaning up your house, even playing a computer game, take a walk -some sort of a distraction to stop the obsessive thoughts.  When thoughts of her do come to you write down when the thoughts came -you may find there are triggers for these thoughts and if you recognize them the triggers can be avoided.

I know how hard this is. E.g. every morning when I take calcium I think of her -because I taught her how important calcium was for thin women.  Now I can smile about it, but it was hard every morning for months and months.

Ask your therapist directly for strategies in stopping obsessive and intrusive thoughts.  I am sure your therapist will have some helpful ideas.

When I missed my ex I would remind myself of the parts of the relationship which were dysfunctional.  When I worried about her being with someone else -I reminded myself she was with other people when we were together.  At least now her behavior does not effect me directly.  I don't hate her -but I realized I sure didn't like a lot of the things she did.

Lastly, it helped me to realize things would have likely gotten worse -not better.  If things had gone on longer the break would have been even more painful -- Children, a house, finances.

[Yoke]

@Wicker man. Thanx for telling me this. Your story. Do you still miss her? You remember it like it was yesterday. And managed to move on and live a happy life now. What was the toughest and most painful , what was the hardest thing about your breakup? What do you miss most and why?  I wonder why i cant get my ex out of my head. Everything reminds me of her and everything i do.. i  wish she was with me.. it hurts. I miss our conversations so much, her near me. Just smell her sence.. presence.. i wonder how i ever will and can let her go forever... how did you guys do? Please give me advice!

[Yoke]

When i miss my ex much i try to think of all the words of hate she threw on me, the accusation, rage... but still, it does not make me feel better and i do not miss her less.. she was the love of my life and I want her.. back. I know some of the uBpd comes back, but with her.. no. She would never come back by herself... how did you guys moved on? I try do things i liked to do before i met her, i go to therapy, i am with friends.. but i miss her. Its her i want to do all stuff with... not anyone else..

[Wicker Man]

Do you still miss her... ...What do you miss most and why?

I miss the idea of her.  I miss the fantasy of the future I saw.  I say it like this because the reality was not always in sync with the idea in my head.  I was projecting my kindness and stability on to her -so I found it very confusing when she acted otherwise.  E.g. when we were first a 'couple' we went to KTV (Chinese karaoke) and I had to be up early the next day -so I left and she said she would come to 'our' room at 11:30.  I got a text at 4am 'Remember I am young and beautiful'.  She finally showed up at the room drunk at 6am.  I wish I had had the sense to end things then -but I made excuses.  I made excuses because of all beautiful things we had said to each other.  Actions are important, words are nice, but it is how a person actually treats you which is important.

I certainly miss talking with her -she might have been the person I enjoyed speaking with more than any other.  I don't know if this was partially because I was learning Mandarin and speaking with her in her language was fun or if it was all because of her personality.  We met at work and spent a lot of time talking about work and watching movies together.  We would then talk about the movies -as they related to our jobs.  (I am a photographer and she is a SFX makeup person).

I miss making her laugh -she has the most lovely childlike laugh.

Now... I think it is equally important to list a few of the things I don't miss.  I don't miss wondering when the next time she will betray us might be.  I don't miss wondering how many men she is sharing intimate texts with every day. E.g. One day she told me a director heard she was engaged and told her if she breaks the engagement he will give her a house, a villa, and a car. I told her if he is kind and you think you would be happy you should be with him -I could never afford to give you all the things he could.  She was furious and yelled at me for saying she should leave.  This was constant -she was forever texting and I think quite a bit of it was to men interested in her. 

 I don't miss worrying she will start drinking again and get herself hurt or raped.  I don't miss her treating her family badly and me trying to explain why what she did was bad. E.g. throwing her grandparents things out of their window into the street.  I don't miss her bone crushing jealousy over women from my past -whom she hadn't met.  I don't miss being with someone who I thought was lying to me.  I don't miss being afraid today will be the day she disappears again.

...toughest ...most painful  ...hardest thing about your breakup?

Similar to your case -it was the suddenness of the breakup.  I went from the happiest I have ever been to knowing I needed to get away from her in the span of 2 weeks.  I was so looking forward to beginning the life we had planned together for the 18 months of our relationship.  We had been engaged for 6 months -we were just about to really begin... and it ended in a brutal and sudden fashion.  When I told her I agreed with her we were done -tears were streaming down her face and she said 'So we will never speak again?' -I said 'Yes this is the last time'.  She said 'Then you hang up -I cannot'.  Yoke -It was the hardest thing I have ever done.  However, I believed it was the only rational choice.  Love is based in trust and respect -we really had neither.  We had something dysfunctional, but which felt really good.  She had been my constant companion -we spoke and messaged every day for hours.  Speaking with her was the best part of every day -and now she is gone.

I wonder why i cant get my ex out of my head.

You were in love with this person -it takes time to get over the pain of a failed relationship.  People often say it is harder when their ex suffers from BPD.  I believe this is for a couple reasons -one is the closeness with such a sensitive person, and the other is to have this person say sweet things one moment, and horrible the next. 

Variable reward schedule (like a slot machine -which pays sometimes not others) trains subjects the fastest and the behaviors they have learned take the longest to unlearn.  A relationship with someone suffering from BPD is on this reward schedule.  Sometimes they are great, sometimes horrible -so we keep putting 'emotional coins' into the relationship and pulling the lever hoping to be 'paid' with kindness.  The randomness of the emotions which someone with BPD feels makes life very inconsistent.

If you are like me you like the idea of helping people.  Both of our lovers were in a lot of pain -so we tried to help them through it.  Both our lovers were in a relationship unique for them -yours first time with another woman and mine first time with a foreigner.  I believe, perhaps, both you and I made excuses for our lovers due to these unique circumstance.  We accepted odd or even bad behavior and thought it would get better -because we loved them so very much.

i wonder how i ever will and can let her go forever...

Yoke -this will just take time.  I know you must get tired of hearing this, but there is no healthy shortcut for grieving loss.  You have to accept you relationship, as wonderful as it felt (sometimes), was not built to last.  There is likely nothing you could have done to make her stay and have a healthy relationship with you.

As much as I miss Dream Come True -I wish I had never met her, I wish I never had loved someone in such psychic pain.  I wish I had realized sooner she was not ready for a healthy relationship and ended things before both of us were hurt so badly.  I am thankful our relationship ended before I had reached a tipping point in my life.  Yes -I miss her, but I feel it is similar to a recovering addict missing his needle.  It felt great, but it was very bad for me.

[Yoke]

Thanx @Wicker Man.. i understand that i need to look foward, not back. But like u said "certainly miss talking with her -she might have been the person I enjoyed speaking with more than any other. " that i miss the most! And just be with her, feel her presence... knowing she was near me.. that i miss so damn much. Your ex , you talked when you broke up, mine just disappeared after a lovely night in bed and fell asleep in our arms... then she was gone. No nothing. Just two pretty angry textmessage replies..i know i will never get a closure.. and right now i dont care either. I just wish to see her .. and the most of it all, i dont want her to hate me anymore. If i just knew that she did not hate me anylonger.. that would calm my mind a bit. How long after they devaluated you will they hate you? How long periode? Is it the rest of their lifes? Pleaae tell me..

[Longterm]

 How long after they devaluated you will they hate you? How long periode? Is it the rest of their lifes? Pleaae tell me..

Hi YOKE. Has much as it hurts, she will stop devaluing you when she NEEDS something from you. The hatred will drop because your either all good or all bad and if she needs something you must be good. It really all does depend on their current circumstances. It took my ex 15mths to stop hating me because she needed something. Once she got what she wanted she left again and now hates me again. This is why you need to be on guard if she does come back because it will not be anything to do with love but everything to do with need

[Yoke]

Thanx @Longterm.. but what do u mean by this? " The hatred will drop because your either all good or all bad and if she needs something you must be good"..? Im all good or bad? If she thinks am all bad why even contact me then? I havent heard a word from her since 3 weeks ago- only because I texted her. Otherwise she wouldnt contact me. She never did that one single time when she broke up with me. It was just me "ask her" to let us try continue our relationship.. So either i think she hates me? Or are to proud? To contact me and awaits for me to contact her again? Is it that you think she is waiting for, even if she is dating someone "new" as she wrote.. i dont know what to belive? Please help me understand them...and their thinking

[Longterm]

What I mean is if I wanted to use your car I would not ask you in a hostile way would I? For example, "gimme the keys now" wouldn't work would it? But "hey how are you YOKE? Ya know I just can't stop thinking about how wonderful you are and I need a ride into town and you always treated me so well and i know you are always there for me". That might work right?

They like to keep contact in case things don't work out for them, like a back up. It keeps you connected and prevents you from moving on, it's is utterly selfish and self centred, my ex did it a lot and stopped me seeing my boys because I would not engage in conversation, I refused to play the game.
 She may not initiate contact whilst idealizing somebody else, her thoughts processes will be solely on him. You will never understand them or what they are thinking because it's nonsensical and this is the very reason why you need to try and move the focus to yourself. During this period how much have you thought about yourself and what you want? Probably very little besides wanting the pain to stop, this has to change YOKE.

[I Am Redeemed]

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