Part 3: Unpdh moving out and wants a divorce

[snowglobe]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337241.0

Do you have this in writing from the lawyer?  Is the lawyer aware of your family dynamics and your concerns about this?

Best,

FF

Yes, I have “without instructions, signatures and agreement from all parties on the title, the money will be held in real estate lawyers trust”. In fact, he advised me that the proceeds are very powerful bargaining chips when you are cooperating with the family law issues. It forces “otherwise combative” individuals to sit and negotiate the settlement conditions.yes, I have vaguely mentioned our issues to him

[Enabler]

Why are you trying to show me? Instead of asking an ambiguous question, why don’t you just come out and say what you mean

Sorry let me re-phrase this.

Snowglobe, I don't know you other than what you have written on the boards. However, knowing your story and believing what you have experienced, I give a fairly large  about you and your welfare, and the welfare of your kids. Your H sounds like a nasty piece of work and I would not be at all surprised that if you allowed him the opportunity to walk run away with ALL the proceeds of your house sale and spend it on b!tches, blow and Bitcoin HE WOULD WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT.

I'm glad you have at least the protection of dual signatory.

Enabler 

[Notwendy]

What Enabler said...

Your H even said he would- several times- leave you penniless.

Please protect yourself. Don't sign your part over. Keep it there until it is divided fairly- and put in a bank account in your name only- where he can't get it.

Nasty piece of work- may sound harsh to you, but he's selfish and does not think of your welfare. He's also addicted to drugs, spends vast amounts of money, impulsively, and from what you have posted, not trustworthy. Why would you hand over your part to him?

Please protect yourself.

[snowglobe]

Sorry let me re-phrase this.

Snowglobe, I don't know you other than what you have written on the boards. However, knowing your story and believing what you have experienced, I give a fairly large  about you and your welfare, and the welfare of your kids. Your H sounds like a nasty piece of work and I would not be at all surprised that if you allowed him the opportunity to walk run away with ALL the proceeds of your house sale and spend it on b!tches, blow and Bitcoin HE WOULD WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT.

I'm glad you have at least the protection of dual signatory.

Enabler 

Enabler,
It means a lot for a person like me with extremely low self esteem to know that someone cares for my life. Your support is much appreciated. One thing- don’t hesitate to bring your concern to my attention, when you do, please be as explicit as you can in what your concern is. I don’t know all of the nuances, so if you have more insight into my situation, it would be great to bounce it off of me. The lore I’m prepared, the better I can deal with what’s coming. My motto for now- make decisions accordingly as my options are narrowing down. Do I want to divorce him- no. Am I prepared to fight for my interest if he tries to screw me over- yes. Do I have enough ammo to go by- absolutely. Will I threaten him with it? Never. Only once I’m ready to pull the trigger, will I aim.

[Enabler]

My motto for now- make decisions accordingly as my options are narrowing down. Do I want to divorce him- no. Am I prepared to fight for my interest if he tries to screw me over- yes. Do I have enough ammo to go by- absolutely. Will I threaten him with it? Never. Only once I’m ready to pull the trigger, will I aim.

Snowglobe, you have a lot of people who care about you on these boards. If we didn't care we wouldn't spend our time posting specifically to you.

I might consider rejigging your thinking here:

Do I want to divorce him - no - Okay, that's not a silly stance, I am in a similar boat
Am I prepared to fight for my interest if he tries to screw me over- yes - change this to how can I position the things that are important too me like money and kids in a position that HE CANNOT SCREW ME OVER as they are protected by law.
Do I have enough ammo to go by- absolutely - Keep that powder dry, keep it safe and keep it relevant. USE IT ONLY WHEN YOU ARE PREPARED TO FOLLOW THROUGH
Will I threaten him with it? Never - Put yourself, the things that are important to you in a position where you DON'T NEED TO THREATEN HIM

Rather than rehash what I wrote to another member earlier here's the link
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337583.msg13061003#msg13061003

Read this bit - Do you know anything about decision trees... shall I go left or right?... left... okay shall I go left or right?... right... eventually you get a big tree with lots of different branches. At the end of each branch/twig you have a leaf... these are outcomes. As things stand now you are in "Outcome management mode".

You are at the bottom of a big tree, each choice you make takes you on to a different branch which leads in turn to a different leaf which is an outcome. The outcomes are relatively predictable. Work of looking forward to see what those outcomes might be and what his behaviour might be given your choices... that way you may be able to eliminate some negative outcomes... you may be able to eliminate some choices he might have because you made better choices now.

[GaGrl]

One of the advantages of working in a decision tree model is that it helps with "what if..." scenarios as a result of where you end up.

For example, say your decision tree leads you to staying in the marriage, buying a much more expensive house and continuing to hold joint title to the property -- and then the cycle of abuse begins again with your H. You can think through possible scenarios far before they happen.

[formflier]

 please be as explicit as you can in what your concern is.  

You are signing your name to bids on properties "with" your husband.  That will put you on the legal "hook" to follow through with the bid or forfeit your deposit...half of which should come from proceeds of the sale of your home.

That's a silly way to waste money.  If you buy a home with your husband AND spend your half of the proceeds on another home you are choosing to continue your life as it is.  You are choosing the dysfunction.

The pathway to health is for YOU to control your half of the proceeds and spend those proceeds over the next several years so you and your children can be healthier.  

I can't imagine any situation where you and your husband buy a home together that will result in a different life than what you have now.

Snowglobe

I've been as explicit as I can be about your choices.  Can you reflect back what you believe your choices to be?

Did you sign the most recent bid?  

Best,

FF

[snowglobe]

You are signing your name to bids on properties "with" your husband.  That will put you on the legal "hook" to follow through with the bid or forfeit your deposit...half of which should come from proceeds of the sale of your home.

That's a silly way to waste money.  If you buy a home with your husband AND spend your half of the proceeds on another home you are choosing to continue your life as it is.  You are choosing the dysfunction.

The pathway to health is for YOU to control your half of the proceeds and spend those proceeds over the next several years so you and your children can be healthier.  

I can't imagine any situation where you and your husband buy a home together that will result in a different life than what you have now.

Snowglobe

I've been as explicit as I can be about your choices.  Can you reflect back what you believe your choices to be?

Did you sign the most recent bid?  

Best,

FF

Ff,
The bid didn’t go through, ubpdh gets discouraged with every sign back he revived and considers that property tainted. We are moving on to another property, hopefully soon. The choices are the only two branches I see- first is us buying a home and moving there with children whilst I continue my education. I need 3 more years to get a post grad and in this time we shall see what is going to happen. Second, we don’t buy, and then I will consider my separation from him whilst we live in rental.

[formflier]

Snowglobe,

You are asking us to be explicit.

I don't believe you reflected back my explicit concern.  

"We" putting in bids and "we" buying a home together will NOT change your future.  A post grad degree is NOT going to affect the dynamic between you and your husband.

Your husband uses money to control you.  

By bidding "with" your husband and committing your money to another venture with him...YOU are choosing to a future where he continues to control you financially.

There is no "wait and see".

It's magical thinking to believe he will change with no incentive.

Once he realizes he can no longer control you...we'll see if he changes.  That's uncharted territory.

Can you explicitly reflect back what I (and I believe others) believe will happen if YOU choose to buy a property with your husband?

Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

I'm not sure why your H wanted to sell in the first place. I thought his reasoning was to free up funds so he could leave. The other was so he could buy something bigger and better.

Then you mentioned he was bidding low and going through the motions just to lead you on.

What direction is this taking? On one hand, he's leaving, low bidding on houses out of your price range, the next minute he says he wants to be done and isn't speaking to you.

One concern I have is: is he serious about buying a house with you, or is he wanting to get all the money and is going through the motions to get his hands on it?

I know your dream is buying a home together and all will be well. But what is your H doing and saying he wants to do?

[formflier]

  the next minute he says he wants to be done and isn't speaking to you.

And...this is the polite version.  There is also the version about "leaving you penniless" and we could go on with all the things he has said and sadly the times he has used/restricted funds for some purpose that you don't agree with.

Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

Snowball- I just want to make a point that I'm not picking on you or trying to corner you with these statement. I'm genuinely confused about your H's motives.

I know you want to stay together,  buy a home together. I am not asking you to initiate a divorce or to rent separate apartments. However, I don't know what your H wants or what he is trying to do.

To buy a home together, two people first need to decide that they want to do this. They then look at their finances and monthly income and decide what they can afford. Then, to get a mortgage, they need to qualify for it- the bank or lender will ask for financial details and proof of income before it decides to lend the money- they don't want to take a financial risk.

"Home ownership" isn't often the case when someone buys a home. Unless someone is able to pay the whole cost up front, there is a mortgage. The lender owns the home. If the home buyer does not make payments, the bank will repossess it and sell it to get the money back and the home buyers will be left to find housing somehow. You might be able to get your H to put a down payment on a home and get a mortgage. However, unless the home is paid for, he will need to be making monthly payments for several years. He needs to be reliable with the payments as well as be able to afford them. Is this the case with him?

Then there is the realtor. They do this to make a living. They want to sell the house. To do this, they need to find buyers who are serious and who make realistic offers. Part of their job is to help home buyers find a home within their budget. It's a waste of their time and expertise to have buyers make low bids on homes and/or try to buy homes they can not afford. I don't know the chance of a seller agreeing to a very low bid but it is probably unlikely they would do that.

I don't have the expertise FF has in rentals, but we have moved a couple of times, sold our home and then bought another one. There is no way we could buy a home far out of our price range- we would not qualify for the bank loan. Also there is no way we would sell a home for a very low bid- because we would lose too much money in that sale.

What your H is doing and saying is confusing because this isn't the usual way to buy a house. Does he want to buy a house with you?

[formflier]

What your H is doing and saying is confusing because this isn't the usual way to buy a house. Does he want to buy a house with you?

Perhaps..and I say that with a capital P...perhaps he is behaving sort of like a real estate investor...vice someone that wants to buy real estate for their families needs.

In my life...I've bought at flipped around 50 homes...there are a handful more that I still own and rent.  I'm slowly selling those off to get to a more manageable life.

Here is my point.  The way I buy an "investment" home is completely different than the homes and farms I've purchased for my family.  No..I don't set out to loose money or have a "money has no object" point of view for "our" homes (vice investment)...but money is not the "primary" factor.  The house has to "work" for our family (which has some particular needs...)

I don't see anything..capital A..Anything that you husband is doing that leads me to believe he has his families best interests at heart..in mind...or anywhere arouInd this house buying thing.

And..he knows...knows that his family is concerned about the timeline.

As an investor it's a bit harder to tell..but I've heard stories about lots of bad decisions..loosing lots of money...getting fired and all kinds of other stuff, which resulted in cars "having to" be sold...and other financial restrictions...followed randomly by a lavish vacation.

From time to time it appears your hubby hits the jackpot with an idea or partnership...and then "poof"..blows tons of money.

Nothing...captial N Nothing that I've heard about him leads me to believe (recent MBA graduate) that he is a steady hand that can invest and grow a business idea and provide stable..steady income to his family.

Nothing

That's another reason I've been so explicit about the need for YOU to control your half of the proceeds.  Don't let him anywhere near it...EVER.

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

It sounds to me that Snowglobe's H goes through periods of manic behavior. This could be triggered by drugs or by extreme financial stress, as when he incurs bitcoin losses or business setbacks.

Snowglobe, what is his business situation now? Is he still in partnership with the same person? Is the business stable and thriving?

My concern is that the current family property represents the only significant asset that your H can turn into cash, which he needs in order to "save" his business or , worse, gamble by investing into more bitcoin thinking he can win it all back.

Thoughts?

[Cat Familiar]

I agree with formflier. Your husband has a poor track record of being financially responsible. He's kept you in a subservient position through threats to leave you and the children without support.

You now have the opportunity to control half the proceeds from the sale of your house. Why would you let him have access to this money again? Why would you go along with buying a house that you may not be able to afford if he makes more irresponsible decisions?

And if a low ball offer is accepted, perhaps there's something wrong with that property. Have you considered that?

[Cat Familiar]

It sounds to me that Snowglobe's H goes through periods of manic behavior. This could be triggered by drugs or by extreme financial stress, as when he incurs bitcoin losses or business setbacks.

This.

[snowglobe]

Hi guys,
I will answer this in broad stroke for today, he has been with me 24/7, I will address each of your messages individually once I have more secure setting. It appears that he was magically thinking that it is a buyers market and he will sell low and buy low. Whereas in reality this is only true for townhouses and small detached homes. The luxury realestate kept and maintained the value. People who own such estate homes have the means to wait it out or not to sell period. His “plan” failed and now he is “depressed and discouraged” according to him. He also no longer wants to buy the property, it’s me who has been pushing for it. Why? Because triple the proceeds from the house sale he owns in crypto currencies. I have no way to prove that he has it or that it ever existed. With anyone who knows anything about this grey area, it’s stored on a small device that may have number of different “pockets” with different amounts. Without his cooperation I will never be able to prove it ever existed, even through forensic accounting. I will not take the money from the lawyers trust, because he will take half of it, while sitting on more assets. It’s like having a post nap that I have not consented to. If he doesn’t buy the home, the very little trust I had left in him will vanish and I no longer CHOOSE to continue and be married to him. He does appear manic and depressed, hence bidding. He also doesn’t take the rejection well. 

[Cat Familiar]

Is there any chance of putting a bid in on a property that you can reasonably afford?

[Notwendy]

I think I get what you are saying. He has a lot of money in Bitcoin and you want him to use this to purchase the house, not the money from the sale of the house. Is he willing to do this? Does he want to stay together?

[snowglobe]

I think I get what you are saying. He has a lot of money in Bitcoin and you want him to use this to purchase the house, not the money from the sale of the house. Is he willing to do this? Does he want to stay together?

Bingo, I want him to add needed funds for such purchase. Without buying a home, I won’t see these funds. He fluctuates between doing it, delaying, but feels like he is moving closer

[formflier]

So..connect the dots for me.

How does you signing the bid document get you closer to your goal of seeing the bitcoin money?

Again..connect the dots..I'm struggling to see the path.

If you are legally bound to spend your part of the money from the sale, how does he cough up the elusive  bitcoin?

Best,

FF

[snowglobe]

So..connect the dots for me.

How does you signing the bid document get you closer to your goal of seeing the bitcoin money?

Again..connect the dots..I'm struggling to see the path.

If you are legally bound to spend your part of the money from the sale, how does he cough up the elusive  bitcoin?

Best,

FF

I invest all of the proceeds from sale, on top of it he has to liquidate his assets to maintain and purchase such lavish property. Connecting the dots- I invest 100% of proceeds from the house sale, he has to come up with equivalent of the same amount from the assets that he holds. If he acts stupid, the money are already in a joint name in the house equity = I have the tights and access to it. 

[formflier]

So...you invest your half of proceeds.  He invests his half of proceeds...AND he has to liquidate his bitcoin to buy a property?

Do I have this right?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

  access to it. 

Explain how you get access to it?

FF

[snowglobe]

So...you invest your half of proceeds.  He invests his half of proceeds...AND he has to liquidate his bitcoin to buy a property?

Do I have this right?

Best,

FF

That was the original plan. He is cycling between manic and depressive, we are bidding on mixed manic and he doesn’t want to hear anything about the purchase, like ostrich burring his head in the sand. “I don’t want to hear that, you are pissing me off with your nagging”. I don’t know how it’s all going to end, I’m just super tired and exhausted

[snowglobe]

Explain how you get access to it?

FF

If he pulls “I hate you, want to divorce you” once we buy the home, the proceeds from sale will be split equally, where as he doesn’t buy and I have to sue him, he will surely say that the bitcoins never existed and I imagined it. Thus I won’t have the access to that money

[formflier]

So...let's assume you need "access" to the money for therapy for you and children.

You hubby says no (typical response I believe).  How long until you get money in hand to get you and children needed care.

FF

[formflier]

If he pulls “I hate you, want to divorce you” once we buy the home,

So...if he says this, you will divorce him then?

FF

[snowglobe]

So...let's assume you need "access" to the money for therapy for you and children.

You hubby says no (typical response I believe).  How long until you get money in hand to get you and children needed care.

FF

Given what scenario? That we buy or don’t buy. If we do, and he says no, it may take a long time for me to receive  child and spousal from unpdh. There would be an urgent hearing, his business are legit so I would get 25% of it. He has another partner who is now in a process of divorce. She asked for 25% of the company.

[snowglobe]

So...if he says this, you will divorce him then?

FF

I won’t try and stop him

[Enabler]

Snowglobe, just to check, is his Bitcoin business a 'brand' or does it just mine coins? What assets does it hold in the company or is it predominantly expertise. I'm just wondering since now him and his business partner are potentially getting divorced there could be an incentive to liquidate the current enterprise and then effectively start up next door. 

Broadly speaking, there are businesses that own machines/land etc and do things with that machine/land, the machines and land are the capital... that's where the money is. There are other businesses such as being a lawyer where the money is in the brains of the people running the show... intellectual capital. If your H business is the former then you're potential claim on the business has actual value, if your husbands business is mostly based on human intelligence or software... well there's very little stopping him extracting all the value (him and his brain), rebranding in a different company structure leaving you (and partners ex W) with no actual value in the company.

Re the house and sucking out bitcoin assets, this isn't daft as long as you can manage the transition between sale of existing home cash and buying new home. I think we're all singing from the same song sheet where we're trying to get you to make sure you have tangible claim on as many physical assets as possible. That said, he's smart... I think you mentioned genius IQ before, he also lacks empathy, you need to be one step ahead, dot all i's and all t's and make sure YOU source legal representatives and have things checked for loopholes. I don't want to be telling you not to trust him... BUT DON'T TRUST HIM.

Enabler

[formflier]

Given what scenario? That we buy or don’t buy. If we do, and he says no, it may take a long time for me to receive  child and spousal from unpdh. There would be an urgent hearing, his business are legit so I would get 25% of it. He has another partner who is now in a process of divorce. She asked for 25% of the company.

There is a big difference between "ask" and "get".

So...how long would it take to get your children the care YOU determine they need if you go the route of investing funds from the current sale into a new home?


Compare that to how long it would take if you are renting or if you bought a place that didn't require your half of proceeds from sale?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

I won’t try and stop him

And..since history seems to repeat itself, what do you think the chances are he actually will file for divorce?

Compare that with the chances that your life will be similar to what it is right now?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

this isn't daft as long as you can manage the transition between sale of existing home cash and buying new home. 

As long as the overriding goal is to get the bitcoin.

I've only recently become aware this was a goal at all

My understanding was that Snowglobe wanted to control her financial future and the psychological health of herself and her children in the next few months.  To have a different life in a few months...vice a potential different life in a few years (when perhaps children are out of the house)

Snowglobe

Can you list and rank your goals (what you are trying to accomplish) with the sale of the current house and purchase of a new house?

Best,

FF

[Enabler]

As long as the overriding goal is to get the bitcoin.

Agree that should be the primary motivation... releasing and locking down hidden or transient capital.

If it's about providing cash then the only way really to release cash from post house purchase would be divorce... unless H wants to play ball... and the former would potentially be protracted, not least because there's a corporate structure to value and negotiate.

Enabler

[Cat Familiar]

This thread has reached its maximum length and is now locked. The conversation continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337708.0