My life just changed overnight- I am still in shock

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have 7 kids 20-5 years old.  Divorced from BPD wife.  It was finalized after 2.5 years of court where she got almost everything she wanted.  Despite a 75 page custody evaluation that spelled out the bpd behaviors, stated extreme alienation, classified my ex behaviors as abusive and stating I should have at least 50/50 with full parenting if the alienation continues get full time.   Despite this court appointed custody eval, my ex got the kids with me just every other weekend and one night a week.  I was devastated.  I was broke as had to pay all her lawyer bills also.  I had to pay alimony on top of the child support.  I lost our home and my entire 401K based on fuzzy math of the lawyer which judge agreed to despite our protests.  Everything that could have gone her way did.  I took it to the appeals but little was changed in my favor. 

Yesterday, 7 months after that final decree post appeal , exbpd wife says she will give me total custody legal and physical.  She said I can have all weekends, all holidays...  all she requested was 30 days in the summer.  She said if I agree, I can stop all support to her and all alimony.  She said you have 2 days to decide but regardless she is going to petition for this if I do not give my answer.   

I spoke with my lawyer, she suggested to take if if that is what I wanted.

I'm floored.   Saddened she does not want to be a part of my kids life.  Overwhelmed at having the logistical challenge of taking care of 5 of the kids ) with 2 of the kids with significant special needs (other 2 are in college) and me working full time.  Mixed emotions to say the least

She has new boyfriend. ...  not sure how much that is playing into it.  She is not from this country... although she has lived in USA for 20 years...  is she going back?  Were the kids simply being used to fight with and not really her intention to have them.   She stated she was emotionally exhausted and could not go on with kids.  She said she was doing it for the kids.  She said she did not want any more of my alienation (although I was not invited to my daughters open house for graduation 3 weeks ago that was not even at my ex home...  it was done with three other grads at their home, and that is one of hundreds of stories over the last 2.5 years)

Have other experienced such a sudden change with their ex?   I feel confused, sad that this is another step of the breakup, mad that she does not want to have anything to do with the kids, and sad for kids

[Sluggo]

I have 7 kids 20-5 years old.  Divorced from BPD wife.  It was finalized after 2.5 years of court where she got almost everything she wanted.  Despite a 75 page custody evaluation that spelled out the bpd behaviors, stated extreme alienation, classified my ex behaviors as abusive and stating I should have at least 50/50 with full parenting if the alienation continues get full time.   Despite this court appointed custody eval, my ex got the kids with me just every other weekend and one night a week.  I was devastated.  I was broke as had to pay all her lawyer bills also.  I had to pay alimony on top of the child support.  I lost our home and my entire 401K based on fuzzy math of the lawyer which judge agreed to despite our protests.  Everything that could have gone her way did.  I took it to the appeals but little was changed in my favor. 

Yesterday, 7 months after that final decree post appeal , exbpd wife says she will give me total custody legal and physical.  She said I can have all weekends, all holidays...  all she requested was 30 days in the summer.  She said if I agree, I can stop all support to her and all alimony.  She said you have 2 days to decide but regardless she is going to petition for this if I do not give my answer.   

I spoke with my lawyer, she suggested to take if if that is what I wanted.

I'm floored.   Saddened she does not want to be a part of my kids life.  Overwhelmed at having the logistical challenge of taking care of 5 of the kids ) with 2 of the kids with significant special needs (other 2 are in college) and me working full time.  Mixed emotions to say the least

She has new boyfriend. ...  not sure how much that is playing into it.  She is not from this country... although she has lived in USA for 20 years...  is she going back?  Were the kids simply being used to fight with and not really her intention to have them.   She stated she was emotionally exhausted and could not go on with kids.  She said she was doing it for the kids.  She said she did not want any more of my alienation (although I was not invited to my daughters open house for graduation 3 weeks ago that was not even at my ex home...  it was done with three other grads at their home, and that is one of hundreds of stories over the last 2.5 years)

Have other experienced such a sudden change with their ex?   I feel confused, sad that this is another step of the breakup, mad that she does not want to have anything to do with the kids, and sad for kids

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Sluggo,

Wow. That certainly is a lot to take in all at once. It must really be surprising to see this complete turnaround after she fought you so hard and pushed so much to "win".

I don't have experience with this particular situation, but it doesn't surprise me. There are countless stories on these boards of pwbpd pushing to get something they feel that they want, whatever those motives are, only to be unsatisfied once they have obtained what they were pushing to get. I think she was probably focused in black and white thinking terms- she "wins" so you "lose". Now, the reality of what she pushed for has probably set in and she can't handle what she "won". If it's her idea for you to have the kids, then she still "wins". You only get them on her terms.

I understand your mixture of feeling sadness and anger, especially for how your kids will feel and be affected by this. I know it is probably overwhelming to think about the logistics of caring for all of them. I have six kids myself, and I only have custody of the youngest. Recently, I have been able to gain more visitation with them with more likely to follow, and I do have the ultimate goal of filing for custody of all of them one day. But it does worry me to think of how I am going to manage it. However, I plan to take it one step at a time and not give up. They are my kids, and I will do whatever it takes to be the best mother I can be for them. I suspect you will do the same.

This is your chance to give your kids a shot at stability. It will likely be hard and take some adjustment for everyone, but if this is how your ex behaves, then the kids are better off with you as the healthier parent. It's like the balance is being restored and you are being vindicated for everything you defended and lost. Your kids will need a place where they can be nurtured emotionally after experiencing this kind of behavior from their mother.

[formflier]

Get it signed and verified good by your lawyer..quick!

FF

[ForeverDad]

I have 7 kids 20-5 years old.  Divorced from BPD wife... 
Yesterday, 7 months after that final decree post appeal , exbpd wife says she will give me total custody legal and physical.  She said I can have all weekends, all holidays...  all she requested was 30 days in the summer.  She said if I agree, I can stop all support to her and all alimony.  She said you have 2 days to decide but regardless she is going to petition for this if I do not give my answer.   

I spoke with my lawyer, she suggested to take if if that is what I wanted.

I'm floored.   Saddened she does not want to be a part of my kids life.  Overwhelmed at having the logistical challenge of taking care of 5 of the kids... I feel confused, sad that this is another step of the breakup, mad that she does not want to have anything to do with the kids, and sad for kids

Don't feel mad, sad, whatever.  Maybe it was her fight to look like a good mother.  Maybe it was control, need to win.  Maybe this is about her new boyfriend.  Whatever.  (Not your worry.  It just "IS".)  As a person with some level of BPD or related PD, she's messed up to some extent, not your job to fix her or figure her out, you can't.  If you want to parent, then jump on it.  It's got to be better than any alternative.

However, it has to be done Legal.  None of this quickie she'll propose, "I'll just sign it away with a brief statement." Maybe that's a good start to make her feel obligated to the legalese framework but her signing away aspects probably does not make it all go away immediately.  I feel sure there are some items that can't be undone without court approval or at least a court filing.  I'm particularly thinking of child support or alimony.  So be sure each detail is resolved so she can't later recant (such as boyfriend breakup).

[worriedStepmom]

Yay!  You get your kids back.

Now is the time to make plans - plans to make sure this is done legally and plans for how you will be able to care for the children while you work.

Good luck!

[Sluggo]

I am redeemed,

This is your chance to give your kids a shot at stability. It will likely be hard and take some adjustment for everyone, but if this is how your ex behaves, then the kids are better off with you as the healthier parent. It's like the balance is being restored and you are being vindicated for everything you defended and lost. Your kids will need a place where they can be nurtured emotionally after experiencing this kind of behavior from their mother.

Yes it does feel like the balanced has been restored.  I do feel vindicated.  I feel very thankful.   Although just 1.5 days (as I found out my ex had already told the kids what her intentions were before even asking me) I have already noticed a little improvement from the 2nd most alienated child.  She was the one most dependent on my ex with her disabilities.  My daughter is engaging with me these last two days--  she is talking about painting her room, she was even smiling at me.   I imagine now she does not have that 'responsibility' of reporting everything that happened at my house.  I don't know for sure but just what I am thinking... 

[Sluggo]

FF,

Get it signed and verified good by your lawyer..quick!

My lawyer already wrote it up and filed it with the court with the correct motions needed.  If wife signs it, then don't have to go to court.

 If she does not sign it, then I have the email she sent where I replied accepting it.  It also showing the court she essentially wants nothing to do with the kids.  

Fingers crossed.  

Sluggo  

[Sluggo]

Forever Dad,

Don't feel mad, sad, whatever.  Maybe it was her fight to look like a good mother.  Maybe it was control, need to win.  Maybe this is about her new boyfriend.  Whatever.  (Not your worry.  It just "IS".)  As a person with some level of BPD or related PD, she's messed up to some extent, not your job to fix her or figure her out, you can't.  If you want to parent, then jump on it.  It's got to be better than any alternative.

I think that can be my tendency is trying to figure out... which you are correct, it doesn't matter.  Trying to do that is wasted time, energy.   

The lawyer has jumped on it.  She has everything wrote up and filed with the correct motions and have a court date late August if needed.  Hoping she signs but if anything her email was specific, clear, which can be shown at the court with our request to modify time and support.

Thank you,

Sluggo

[Sluggo]

Worried Step mom,

Yay!  You get your kids back.

I am excited! 

If I remember the movie correctly..  Kramer vs Kramer...  he fought so hard and lost.   then after he lost, the mom gave Dad his kid back for him to be a father.    I feel like that has happened. 

Keeping my fingers crossed. 

Thank you,

Sluggo

[Longterm]

That is great news for your kids and you.

I'm extremely happy for you I wouldn't worry, you'll figure out the logistics.

[formflier]

Hey Sluggo.  Have you had a meeting with your lawyer yet?  It's critical this is done right!

Best,

FF

[PeteWitsend]

Worried Step mom,

I am excited!  

If I remember the movie correctly..  Kramer vs Kramer...  he fought so hard and lost.   then after he lost, the mom gave Dad his kid back for him to be a father.    I feel like that has happened.  

Keeping my fingers crossed.  

Thank you,

Sluggo

I read somewhere, possibly here, that every interaction with a pwBPD - in their mind - has to have a winner and a loser.  They are so mentally fragile, they can't countenance being the "loser" so they fight, tooth and nail, to "win"' whatever the cost.  And I suppose they'll fight, even if there is nothing to win, or they don't  really want the prize.

I assume that's what happened here.

In my own experience, you just have to let them stew.  Or "give them enough rope to hang themselves."  Time and silence are your friends.  They'll often cave or simply go away on their own when they don't get the fight or emotional reaction from you that they expect.

[Panda39]

I have already noticed a little improvement from the 2nd most alienated child.  She was the one most dependent on my ex with her disabilities.  My daughter is engaging with me these last two days--  she is talking about painting her room, she was even smiling at me.   I imagine now she does not have that 'responsibility' of reporting everything that happened at my house.  I don't know for sure but just what I am thinking...  

Your daughter she is doing what her mom wants (so no guilt-that is no small blessing) and gets to be with you...she is not in the middle of conflict between you and mom, mom has taken herself off the triangle.

I'm super excited for you and am glad to hear you and your lawyer have jumped all over it...getting the paperwork done so quickly!

How are you feeling? This is a lot to take on in such a short period of time.

Panda39

[Sluggo]

FF,

Hey Sluggo.  Have you had a meeting with your lawyer yet?  It's critical this is done right!

Thank you for checking in.  Yes I met with the lawyer.  She drew up the document, and submitted to the court the necessary motions to modify custody, parenting time, and all other matters.  We have a court date set for late August. 

Keeping fingers crossed ex will sign...  it is really everything she requested.  If she does sign then, will not have to go to court. 

Thank you for asking... 

[Sluggo]

Petewitsend,

they can't countenance being the "loser" so they fight, tooth and nail, to "win"' whatever the cost.

I think you are right on the money.  She also had garnered the pity from our church congregation (for the most part)-  Dad of 7 walks out on Mom, etc.  I think that was further motivation. 

[Sluggo]

Panda,

Had not thought of that... yes she is not in that triangle anymore.  She can start being herself.  We got a long way to go as there was a lot of damage but I am hopeful. 

Feeling: 
1.  Better than the first day.  Was overwhelmed.  But starting to get my mind wrapped around it. 
2.  Still in shock..  I did not expect this day to come.  I thought it would only come from the multiple contempts and her inability to follow the rules with the court and the parenting coordinator and that the previous judge just retired. 
3.  when I start feeling sorry for myself I feel... Anger & shame at times when thinking what a huge cluster my marriage has caused.  How I let it get so far out of hand and have 7 kids that have been affected.  To have picked a lady to be the mom of our kids who is not able to love them.  Who is so broken that she can barely love herself let alone our children. 
4.  Excited for the kids and for my time to love them and be the Dad that I always wanted to be to them!  I want to be the Dad I would have wanted myself growing up. 

   

[livednlearned]

Thanks for sharing good news! We can all use some of that here 

The new BF is probably a motivator for the change of heart and probably the exhaustion of raising 5 kids, 2 with disabilities. Maybe the new BF is narcissistic and doesn't want the burden of dealing with those responsibilities and in the idealization stage, your ex sees them as an obstacle to this *perfect* union (destined to devalue).

Depending on when the devaluation stage hits, she may walk this back one day and you'll be scratching the other side of your head, wondering how someone could be so inconsistent 

Wrap the details up tight as you can and enjoy this newfound good fortune.

Are any of your kids in therapy? I have to imagine this will be a bit of whiplash for them to go from alienation abuse to living with you.

Have you seen the offer yet?

[zachira]

I am really hoping for you and especially your children that you do legally get nearly full custody of your children, because they need you and you will be so much happier knowing that they are safe most of the time. Having grown up with a mother with BPD, I can say that often times a mother with BPD is so overwhelmed emotionally that she can not do much including caring for her children. My mother always complained how hard she worked when in reality we had hired help for nearly everything, and mom's main duty was to cook dinner.

[Sluggo]

Livednlearnd,

Are any of your kids in therapy? I have to imagine this will be a bit of whiplash for them to go from alienation abuse to living with you.

The kids were in therapy when the divorce was in process.  However they have not been there since Aug 2018.  They did not like going and asked to stop...  so when school started back and I stopped setting up and taking them.  At the time they were at moms and she would not take or pick up from therapy.  I thought therapist was good however, they seemed pretty closed mouth when in visits with them. 

What are your thoughts with therapy?  Any opinions of a 'family therapy'? 

Have you seen the offer yet?

We made offer, and gave her the minimum guidelines (she only asked for 30 days) and if living out of country for 9 weeks in summer.  She countered stating she did not want minimum.  She wanted less time as she had requested.  We re-wrote the offer today and sent over.  Waiting for her response..  but in the end, it was everything she had asked for. 

[Sluggo]

Zachira,

Thank you for your response...  Did you live with your mom full time?  Now looking back what are your thoughts on living with her?  Did you live with Dad separately?  Interested to hear what your experience was as a child? 

I know my Ex has everyone in the church community doing stuff.  Picking up kids, watching them, have dinners brought by the house, and so forth.  Ex usually not home - even not come home overnight.  She was a master at logistics coordinating everyone where she would not do much.   

[ForeverDad]

Our shared experience, and hence outlook, is that the chaos, obstruction and discord will never end.  That's true for many.  But often a watershed event occurs where much of the conflict dissipates.  At what point that may occur may not be easily predicted.  For me, it was a couple years after I got full custody, it was when I also got majority time.  Custody and majority time together were what worked in my case after 8 years of heightened legal conflict.

Seems like for you it was when the legal struggle was mostly over and ex realized she didn't want to carry the full load.  Or once she had a new relationship.  Or a combination.  Whatever.  Let's hope her reduced level of conflict continues.

[zachira]

Sluggo,
In response to your questions: My mom was a stay at home mother and my father worked. Mom was two faced: She talked about everybody behind their backs, including treating my father well to his face and talking about divorcing him when he wasn't around. My father often sounded perplexed when he would say that he could not understand why mom complained of being tired all the time when she really didn't seem to do that much.  At mom's request, dad generously paid for all kinds of outside help, most of the time for chores that family members could have done.
I have heard many people who post here describe their mothers with BPD as too overwhelmed to do much of anything. It sounds like the mother of your children can't handle most of the responsibilities of parenting because she is too emotionally overwhelmed.

[livednlearned]

What are your thoughts with therapy?  Any opinions of a 'family therapy'?

I believe therapy is essential. Family therapy, if you can make it happen, and if you find a skilled therapist, would probably help you all heal faster.

There will probably be some anger toward you -- kids can't always articulate why they're angry, so it can come across as acting out. The anger comes from knowing you're the stable parent and weren't strong enough to protect them.

Those feelings will be about them, not you. A good therapist can help guide you all toward resolution, them seeing your perspective, you seeing theirs.

Otherwise, without this support, we all stay hurt and confused by the confusion and pain that goes with BPD parenting.

[40days_in_desert]

Sluggo,

I empathize with you as I'm in a similar situation. I'm a father of 6 (1 adult son from a previous relationship). My 2 oldest daughters live with me full time. Their choice and mom didn't protest aside from false allegations that I alienated them from her to anyone who would listen. My three youngest have been living with me for 2.5 months because their mom has no place for them to stay with them. She's living with her bf in a 2 bedroom townhouse with bf's stepdad. Her bf has a felony record. She's gone from idealizing him to saying that he's bad to the point where she doesn't want the kids around him. Since she's been living with him he's conveniently a good guy and only said bad things about him because she was mad at him.

Anyway, I'm in your corner cheering you on and hoping for the best outcome for you and your children. I wanted to let you know that there's someone out there going through what you are at the same time!

[Sluggo]

L&L,

I believe therapy is essential. Family therapy, if you can make it happen, and if you find a skilled therapist, would probably help you all heal faster.

thank you for that.  I reached out to the court custody evaluator.  The one who wrote the 75 page report and knows our story inside and out... and understand borderline.  She stated in the report of the abuse, the alienation, etc, etc. 

She agreed to do the therapy for the kids and will do a family session next week.   

[Sluggo]

UPDATE... 

After a few times going back and forth with the lawyer and my lawyer, my ex signed off and judge just finalized. 

I did not cave to one item I did not think was fair. Ex gave me full legal and physical custody.  She did not want any bdays, holidays, etc despite me trying to give her those.  All she asked for was 30 days a year. 

23 months post final divorce decree and 7 months post appellate court (where they ruled in her favor)... I would never had guessed this was to happen.  This was a complete turnaround in 14 days. 

 

[Panda39]

So happy for you, it's gonna be a lot of work but your up for it 

How are your kids feeling about what has happened?  This is likely very difficult/confusing for them.  I agree therapy will be important.

Panda39

[GaGrl]

Wow. Just wow.

This is such good news for your future.

Like Panda, my immediate thought is -- how do you get help to ensure as good a balance going forward as you possibly can arrange?

[formflier]

     

Solid work getting it all signed off.  Also solid work moving quickly on this before "minds changed"!

Best,

FF

[incognitoMe]

I was getting sad today about moving out of the place my ex and I shared...   I'm so glad I never married her.

I'm happy for you having finally gotten your kids.  It will be hard to juggle all the responsibility yourself, but it will be a lot easier than dealing with her!