Alienation of Grandchild from Grandparents and Uncle - Heartbroken and Helpless

[Angie59]

Hello everyone! 

I hope I am posting this on the right board.  I am at a complete loss at how I feel and what is going on right now.  I would appreciate any thoughts any of you may have.  I am not a newbie on here, so some of you may remember me from past posts.

I'm going through something right now regarding our grandson that I would like opinions, advice, thoughts, whatever you have to offer is welcome because I am literally in tears right now. My husband and I have been close to and babysitting our 3 year old grandson once a week every Thursday for the past 2-1/2/ years. We are very affectionate people who cuddle him and show him how much we love him with our words and actions. We spend quality time when we are with him at his house on Thursdays. We make sure he knows how important he is to us. About 3 months ago, my son's uBPD girlfriend broke up with him after a 5 year relationship, told him she had cheated on him, now was involved with another man besides, and did not love him any more. She financially drained him while they were together and he is in a real hole now because of it. Getting off track here ------ we (my husband, oldest son and myself) have noticed a difference in him whenever he spends time with her. For instance, she has him every other Friday and always on Saturdays and returns him on Sundays. They came over today to have supper with us. Last Thursday as well as today we have noticed a definite difference between how he is being toward us. He always gave us a hug and kiss before leaving or when we got there to his house. Now he refuses to give a kiss or hug hello or goodbye and is distant towards us. I believe she is trying to alienate us from him. I know he is only 3 years old but in the past if we asked for a kiss goodbye and he said no, he would call us back to the porch and hug and kiss us, like it was a game. Not now. Now he just doesn't show it at all. My heart is broken. I suffer from depression and anxiety and he has been the light in my life since he was born. Anybody?

[livednlearned]

Dr. Craig Childress describes pathogenic parenting (alienating behaviors) as practically synonymous with personality disordered parents.

Is GS's mom allowing you to continue babysitting?

How is mom with you?

It sounds like your son is the primary parent spending most of the time with GS?

I wouldn't be surprised if GS is already learning to reassure and validate how mom feels, and probably intuitively knows that it's emotionally dangerous to demonstrate love to anyone but her.

How is GS with his dad?

[ForeverDad]

You should read Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison.  There may not have been an official divorce but it is a split nevertheless.  He mentions that the overpowering or demanding parent can influence greatly how the child expresses himself.  Even if one parent or the grandparents show a lot of love and attention, a child can feel forced to appease the more controlling one.

So your son is getting to do the majority of parenting?  If so, great.

I noticed you stating she takes the child every weekend?  Generally that is impractical over time.  Courts almost always default to alternate weekends in the parenting schedules.  (Sometime it will order 2 weekends for one parent in the month and the other 2 or 3 for the other parent.)  Exceptions might be made for emergency workers such as police, fire fighters, doctors or nurses who are required to often work weekends.

The advantage to alternate weekends is that each parent gets regular time with the kids (either at home or weekend outings, trips out of town, etc) and yet also has regular time for a "weekend off".  You'll find that is standard in every family court.

[Angie59]

Hello and thank you for your replies!

First of all, yes, my husband and I are still babysitting our GS on Thursdays.  I am a bit confused; however, by the question because that happens to be my son's day to have his child and who is she to dictate who is watching him on his day?  The uBPD made up a 50/50 schedule - but of course it would be her, she has to have all the say...it works like this:  Mon/Tues - Mom;  Wed/Thurs - Dad;   Fridays they alternate; Saturday - Mom, and Sunday - Dad.  So it is basically a one week one parent gets him 3 days and the other 4 and then vice versa.

So, she had them Friday, Saturday and up to noon on Sunday this past weekend.  Sunday they usually come over to our house for dinner and to swim and visit.  GS was very distant - no kiss, no hug, was sort of indifferent and basically kept to himself - no affection shown at all which is different behavior for him.  My oldest son always does this silly thing with GS by raising him up to where he can touch the ceiling and calls it "Spider Baby" where GS makes his hands look like Spiderman likes he's holding onto the ceiling that way.  (Know it sounds weird when typing it out, but GS loves it and always asks for him to do it).  Not this time.  My older son asked him twice if he wanted to do it and he just shook his head and started watching TV again.  Pretty much kind of ignoring us.

What's odd is that the non-bio GD of 5 comes with them every other Sunday and she is always with me the whole time, wanting to brush my hair, play make-up, or she will just keep close to me, very, very affectionate with me only. 

Strange situation - my older son has actually become depressed over it and has hardly said a word all day.  We don't know what the future will hold and to see the connection we thought we all had with him almost feel like it had been severed yesterday was heartbreaking. 

So, I think I answered the questions you had asked.  Again, they have the 50/50 custody deal, (nothing legal, just what she wrote out and he went along with as he knows if he does not agree with things and makes waves there is always, always a price to pay); however, it is not the customary set-up - to me a lot of ping-ponging back and forth for the little guy, but they will do what they want. 

Just feeling really down, like we've already lost him somewhat. 

[Angie59]

Sorry, just realized I didn't answer one question - how is mom with me?

We have had 0 contact since they split up on 04/15/2019; nor do I want any contact with her or her parents.  I hope I never had to lay eyes on any of them again.  

Also, GS seems to be the same with Dad - close to him and affectionate.

[livednlearned]

It's hard to know what's going on exactly ... but I can understand why this would be so painful.

It sounds like mom has split you black. Meaning if she feels bad around you, then the only explanation is bad. And because she will have no boundaries with GS3, then he must be convinced to feel this way too.

Whereas with your son, she still has some control invested in the relationship and is calling the shots. If she left him, then he may still be serving a purpose, so his relationship is not as alienated. At least not yet 

The most important skill you can learn when a child is experiencing alienation tactics, which Dr. Craig Childress refers to as a form of child abuse, is validation.

3 is pretty young to get straight answers. I wonder, tho, how does he respond when you try to engage him and ask for hugs?

[Angie59]

Well, she really can't feel bad around me because we are never around each other - have not been since the split.  So I'm not sure about that one.

We only asked him once for a hug or kiss goodbye because we don't want to force him to do anything he doesn't want to and he simply said no and kept walking toward the door.  This is very unusual for him.

Again, what's strange is his sister comes out of the car, greets me with a big hug and kiss and leaves in the same manner, and during the visit is attached at my side the whole time!

[Notwendy]

Hi Angie-

I followed your situation on the family thread. I am glad for you that your son is no longer with this woman who was so difficult to deal with.

However, you know that when there is a child involved, she's a part of the family for the long term.

I'm going to propose another possibility besides, or in addition to, alienation. A three year old is very young to fully understand the kind of things a parent may say to them. She could be saying things like "don't kiss grandma" - we don't know.

Another possibility could be some form of depression in the child or behavioral changes due to an abusive situation. I'm not an expert but thinking along the line of attachment issues. Along with the other advice here, I wonder if an assessment from a counselor would help? A child his age can't describe things well, but sometimes play therapy brings out situations. I don't have personal experience with this but I think it's a good idea to have a counselor check out behavioral changes when there is separation of the parents and a dysfunctional parent. Some children may react by being more clingy and affectionate- like the sister, but others may withdraw.

[Angie59]

Hello NotWendy!   

While I don't want to even begin to entertain the idea of abuse, I know it is a possibility.  I think the idea of a counselor is an excellent idea; however, I think it will fall on deaf ears when posed to my son.  I suggested is to him about himself before he really engages in another relationship, but he never took me up on that either. 

It seems GS's behavior has gone from one extreme to another, just thinking about Sunday.  A few weeks ago when we babysat him on Thursdays, twice in a row, he would not even lie his head down on his pillow to take his nap but stayed glued to my arm, and fell asleep sitting up and eventually with his head on my chest, like he had to have that contact.  He did that twice - the other times lying next to me on the couch on his pillow, but close by.  The last two times we have been there he gets his pillow and blanket and lies on the floor to sleep.  He won't even come up on the couch. 

So it's like we've gone from needing to be close, affection, happiness, to keeping his distance from us.  It is very hurtful for us, but more importantly, I want to know if he is okay.  It's not under my control though.  I believe my son still has one foot in her world and will not do anything whatsoever to upset her, make her mad, etc...  He either still cares for her (even though she is with a new romance) or he is afraid to because he knows, as we all do, making her angry means paying a high price tag.

It's a shame too that he has lied to his family throughout the time he has been with her, and still continues to.  Lying takes such a toll on a relationship, but I guess he just doesn't see it or care.  With this in mind, who would even know if he agreed to a counselor , which by the way I feel is an excellent idea, or if he would just tell us he took him.   

I know I have gotten a lot of advice to not be so involved in his life/situation, and I'm sure that is good advice.  Much time has passed now, and I seem to be unable to do this.  I have tried many, many different things, nothing has worked.  Feeling kind of hopeless about all of it!