What can I do?

[LoveOnTheRocks]

I/we really need help today.  Actually, we need help a lot of days, but today it’s more urgent than many others. I am heartbroken and want to help my child, but learning from the mistakes we’ve made in the past, and knowing that I cant just go get her and “save her” makes knowing how to proceed far more difficult. I want to present a succinct series of facts and previous events to enable better understanding of our “reasoning” in this case, and at the same time, am requesting suggestions or advice on what to do now, since I want to help her so much, but am reluctant or lost as to how that might look.
My DD20 and her BF have been determined to be together, even though they’ve known that separately, there are resources out there for them.  As a result, they have been more or less homeless, donating blood and spending their days getting resources to have one night’s lodge in various hotels.  The BF has been telling my daughter he has a check for almost 2 thousand dollars coming from a job he finished several months ago, but for various reasons, he hasn’t been able to get said check.  This has been going on for months, and while we felt he was lying, she wanted to believe, so we all worked under the premise that the check was just waiting in another state for him to find a way to get.  I have paid for rooms for them, his phone bill, and two nights ago, when I payed yet another 2 nights, I told them to find a roomate situation or something that didn’t cost as much.  This morning it was time for them to leave the hotel and my daughter called to tell me there was a person looking for a roomate who would need $375 down and $200 a week.  I told her that until we tracked down his check, which would help us know how it would get paid next week, I wasn’t willing to part with that much money.  She gave me a phone number to a man and I called.  The man said her BF keeps calling and texting him, but he doesn’t know what the BF is talking about, and has never employed this guy.  I wasn’t surprised.  When my daughter called back again, I told her this.  She took it up with the bf and then the phone rings yet again from the police, as someone called when they saw the bf beating my daughter up.
I talked to my daughter on the officer’s phone and helped her calm down, but she says she’s tired of all the stuff she goes through and just wants it to end.  She wants to kill herself again, because her life is hard (and I can see why she is sincere in what she is saying...her life is almost impossible all the time, and not happy much of the time).
I reminded my daughter of some of the below facts about our situation and asked her to call a local shelter for women and children and told her I would get her another phone and bring it to her later (she sells them, so I need to go buy yet another one).  This is why I can’t just go get her and hope for better results this time, when we’ve done that at least 10 times, and every time we end up with the police here, and a horrendous scene.
1) We live far out in the country.  She has no car and due to tickets, even if we bought a car, we would also have to pay 2500 more for 6 months insurance.  We don’t have the money to do that.
If she comes to my house, we have to take her to job interviews, she gets one, then we have to take her to and from work.  This is simply unsustainable, as I am in a wheelchair and my husband already works himself like a mule with all of the details of our life.  Adding my daughters daily needs is very difficult.
2) When my daughter is here, she gets unregulated over something really silly.  She becomes violent and abusive and refuses to just walk away to let things cool down.  I get furious that she wants the conflict and ultimately, I am dysregulated, too. I don’t have bpd, but I cannot take these hours long abusive scenes. The police always end up coming.  For this reason, my husband now says that even though he loves her, she cannot come back to our house anymore.  It’s not an option, and I can’t say bringing her here, knowing what I know about how things always go, that I disagree with him.
3) She refuses to see a T.  She also refuses to be honest with us when, in the past, we’ve brought her to our home and made a plan.  She ends up coming here, and doesn’t follow through with her end of the agreements.  This last time, she felt the bf was going to “rescue” her out of our home and the situation, and she got real cocky and abusive, thinking she had options.

When I talked to her from the officer’s phone today, I asked her to go to the shelter place, use their resources to help get a job, talk to the other ladies in there and process her feelings, and to focus on herself and setting up a life she wants to live.  She has a friend whose lease ends at the end of the month and they could get a 2br. If my daughter would get a job and focus on herself.  I did tell my DD that I would help her if she put some skin in the game by going to the shelter, getting a job, and being willing to focus on herself so she could make her own life easier.  This BF is a nightmare. He abuses her physically, lies to her, and is so obsessed with making her not see other men that he can’t bear to separate from her for fear that she may decide she needs or wants better than this sad existence they have at this time.  She is drawn to him because he seems to love her so much, but it’s so unhealthy and doesn’t function/flow.

It’s not that I don’t love her...or want to help her...I just don’t want to do what has been done so many times in the past, and which we know doesn’t work.  I had a major spine injury in 2012, and my CNS is dysfunctional.  Every day I endure unspeakable physical pain from a brain/spine that is broken, and just doing my day is almost unbearable.  When you add these things with my DD, I am almost always so overwhelmed that I can barely cope.  When my DD tears into me, the physical pain is unbearable. I want and need a solution so badly. 
What can I do that will help this situation?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

LOTR
I am so sorry to hear that your daughter's life is not going well these days. Of course you are hurting for her. Anyone would be. But I think you are 100% right that coming to live with you is not the answer. BPD or not she is an adult making her own choices. I have been in similar situations with my son. This falls into the category of accepting what we cannot change. My only advice about how to feel better is to detach with love. Let it go. Focus on living your life away from the drama
 Can you do that?
Hugs
Faith

[Swimmy55]

LOTR
 I am very sorry for your situation.  You are doing the right thing even though it doesn't make you feel better.  You even are willing to help her based on how she helps her self which is very wise.   You have no other option, please see that.  I know the guilt is crushing, but stay strong and know you have offered her a lifeline, but it is up to her to take it. Like FaithHL states, my son also refused help in the way of having shelter at a family member's house in exchange for going to rehab.   DS refused .  You cannot take care of an adult who will not take care of him/ her self. It is impossible, actually.   Take care of you in the meantime.

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Wise counsel from both of you.  Ironically, it's the same that I give when I sometimes read what others say on these boards, because I can objectively see more clearly than I can when it comes to my own situation.
I have a lot of guilt about the "ugly" scenes that play out in my home.  My DD20 literally won't walk away, and literally begins to physically fight us if we try to separate her from us when she gets hysterical and starts screaming horrid things at us. These scenes last for hours until she has worn herself down, but in recent years, until either she or my husband call the police out here and they have to diffuse for an hour or so, or take her to the hospital, where we have to come get her later, and where she has accumulated many ambulance bills for suicide threats (long story on this, insurance won't pay these things!). Her credit is toast and the bills she has, like 10 of them, are all in the thousands for rides to hospital or short term (like overnight) psych. care. None of it has made a hill of beans difference.
Her father used to physically abuse me and shove me into a corner where he would yell at me for literally 5 or more hours and I had to stay there and take it, because he was physically very powerful and I didn't want broken bones.  I eventually fought my way (psychologically) away from him, but not before getting pregnant.  I elected to keep the baby, and she showed signs of his dreadful condition literally at the age of 1.5...we started getting kicked out of daycares.
With my DD20, I cannot tolerate the yelling at me for hours, and when she refuses to allow me to get away from it by going to another room, leaving the scene, or something similar, I eventually end up fighting back.  I am so upset about some of the things I've said when so enraged by the scene...and I feel sometimes, that I have failed.  When I decided to keep the baby that was inside me, I swore to myself that I would not let her turn out like her bio dad, and would help her, get help for her, and believe me, I tried everything ad naseum for years...but I never got her the help she needed, and we were given the wrong dx until she literally turned 18.  Top that with I never knew what was wrong with the dad (I was told by my then psych. that he was a psychopath, and so I believe that dx).  So, when we were being told about our daughter ODD, and conduct disorder, which lead to sociopath and psychopath, I did the things the Ts were telling me to do for THOSE conditions, which I now know made things so much worse for my DD and for us.  I have only known about the  BPD for 2 years, but there is a lot of damage and hurt and shame in the background.
Do we have articles on this? on this site?  I am not being ugly, I'm serious...I need to work through these feelings I have.  I know a T would be great, but I see doctors several times a week and am now in water therapy, and getting in and out is horrendously painful, which I have to recover from, so I cannot add more trips out to my schedule at this time, I am already doing too much with this broken CNS of mine in tow.

[PeaceMom]

LOTR
I’m so sad for you. You give excellent, sage advice here. It is so obvious you are a sharp, compassionate woman. I want to offer my agreement with the group that moving home is NOT a good idea. It is excruciating to think of our children being abused. Somehow I think mindfulness and really thinking “radically accepting” on a daily basis that you can’t control here. The trickiest part is that she’s actually asking you for help. But the help she wants is not the help she needs.
Please keep posting here.

[LoveOnTheRocks]

I should tell more.  Last night my DD20 called me from a shelter for "unaccompanied children."  The females in this shelter are between the ages of 17 and 21...so, God intervened and sent her to a different place where she can stay for 60 days.  Her bf's mother found this place through a friend and helped my daughter get there.  My DD actually went to the BFs house after the scene yesterday and they talked and cried for hours about their circumstances and agreed to this different approach.  Both of them have agreed to stay together, but not physically, since their stress and the overall pressure just got to be too much, and they ended up hurting each other.
So poignant.  I know these two, who have been living together for at least 3 years...at some place or another, have a very deep and intense relationship. I do not speak against it, but listen, because it's necessary in order for me to understand and "get" them and what they do. She is open with me this way.
Literally, as soon as she got to this shelter, they let her use the phone, and she chose to call me.  We talked for at least an hour...no bad stuff in our phone call...and she wants to go into the military...but she needs a waiver due to her pending charges...BF, the same...they "ran into" someone yesterday who explained the waiver and gave his personal contact info, so he can give them a personal recommendation for this waiver and so each of them can get into the military. (She has wanted to go to the Coastguard for at least 2 years now, so this is not a whim)...she wants to do it for college access and so forth.
Anyway...I must have told her 4 times last night that even though I was not wanting her to come to our house for all the logistical reasons, she was NOT being abandoned by her parents...we are here and won't be going anywhere.  She didn't need this (or imply she did), but I felt an overwhelming need to tell her that even though we can't be "normal enough" to just bring our child home and help her...!tears of agony at this!...we love her and when and if we can figure out ways to help her, we will do our very best.
She is so dang smart.  She gets all this stuff and so much more...even if none of us can gather much control over the situation(s) at hand.
I've run out of words and this may well be my shortest post ever.  I can't believe it.  Usually my posts are unbearably long as I pour my heart out here...but I think I am getting better just doing that...for you...for me...for us...and for our BPD loved ones.

[FaithHopeLove]

I am reading and re-reading every word of your posts trying to see if I can help in any way beyond simply listening and praying. Can you tell me more about what you mean when you say  "I have only known about the  BPD for 2 years, but there is a lot of damage and hurt and shame in the background.
Do we have articles on this? on this site?  I am not being ugly, I'm serious"
Is this something I can help with?"
hugs
Faith

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Can you tell me more about what you mean when you say  "I have only known about the  BPD for 2 years, but there is a lot of damage and hurt and shame in the background.
hugs
Faith

First, hope I cut and pasted the "quote' right, we'll see...if not, was trying to paste Faith's question.
My daughter's bio dad was actually uBPD (I think), but my Psychiatrist back when I was seeing him told me that he was a psychopath.  We had issues with our daughter at age 1.5, so since she has been in kindergarten, we've had her and our family seeing doctors.  We were always told about our daughter she was ODD...or conduct disorder...and these, if you research, lead to sociopath and psychopath...BELIEVE ME...I wanted to prevent the progression, so I did exactly what these docs told me to do with my daughter, and with those behaviors it was all about rewards and consequences for various behaviors...
and some of what we did, following the advice to the strict letter hoping to get better results...were probably the worst things for a pwBPD.  No...scratch that, I'll leave it...but "probably worst for pwBPD" should be changed to...couldn't be worse for a person with BPD.

I can't believe it, but my daughter (who HATES head docs now, for obvious reasons) agreed to see these two older men who are both "head" doctors, who set up a counseling center at my parent's church.  We FINALLY got the right dx (she was 18, tho!)...Literally, I had never heard of BPD, because I was always googling ODD and related terms to that condition.
Just having better information has helped us over the past 2 years, but there is a lot of water under the bridge with how firm I've been with her (trying to follow the instructions given me).  She needed a lot different than what she was getting...oh, my, word...the damage that is happening out there in the name of not diagnosing things until a person turns 18...retrospect and hindsight only helps going forward.  We will never get back all those years and the heartache is almost unbearable...that said, all along, she still did have a personality disorder, which in and of itself, is extremely serious and hard to work with.

I have a lot of guilt...for what I did trying to MAKE my daughter act right, think right...(this is the best way I can say this)...having not a clue about personality disorders, I felt she was being defiant and difficult and I had no concept of personality disorder...I think I tried to break the spirit of defiance in her...and all along, ...not understanding any of her actual needs, I was very shallow...no, the advice of these doctors was very shallow...
all that work for not...except a whole bucket of regret and guilt and sorrow.
It makes me so sad.

Gosh...debbie downer...I'm sorry...but Im trying to express what is real inside me with this.

[FaithHopeLove]

I see what you mean. Before my son was diagnosed I thought the "tough love" approach was the right way to go. Obviously it was not. He needed validation instead. I sometimes feel guilt too but you know what, it is not helpful. I did my very best and so did you. Now we know better we will do better. You sound like an excellent mom. Do you think you can stop beating up on yourself?

[Longterm]

My heart goes out to you LOTR 

Such a difficult situation to be in.

LT.

[LoveOnTheRocks]

You guys are sweet and God is so good.  Yes, Faith, coming here and working on getting it out and learning is helping me to do good by her today, and remind myself that I did the best I could with the information I had in the past.
My DD called me again today.  There is some GREAT additional information that I want to share with you all.  I am on top of the world and here's why.
The place that she's in...she's done intake and it gets SO MUCH BETTER.
First, she can stay there until just before she turns 22 (she is getting ready to turn 20 right now).
Second, they are going to get her into counseling (therapy/with meds Dr., too), and she can also see and get her dental needs taken care of.
Third, she will get help getting a job through a program they have.  She signed a contract to "put away" in a special account they have, 60% of her earned income, so that she will have some real money when it's time for her to leave this place.
Fourth, when she gets ready to leave, the program helps them get an apartment.  They pay the security deposit and 1st month's rent so that her job is to focus on how she will get the rent paid the 2nd month.
She has already met the other girls (all her age, btw 17-21) and thinks she will like a few of them for sure.  They are leaving Monday for a 3 day vacation in the mountains.  She is so excited and was telling me all about this place they'll be staying at...it sounds pretty amazing (I wanna go, ).
Also, they help the girls get a cellphone and other things they need to be ok...

I am at a loss for words.  Surely we can all see why?  This may be far better than an inpatient program, because she will do some more growing up here.  It appears this program is designed to help meet the needs of girls who, for one reason or another, need that special extra something to embrace responsibility and begin to take care of themselves. 
I could not have hand picked a more ideal situation for her than the one she's literally landed into.
I am over the moon.
She also says she can get a 1 night out pass.  She told me she wants to come spend the night with me and go through her stuff and just see her parents...she isn't sure she is eligible for the night out pass or not, yet, but it is great that she wants to come here and do that...
some of the pressure and burden has been lifted and I am so cheered up now.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Longterm]

Wow, that sounds great LOTR.

I wanna go too

It sounds like a really good opportunity for her and a 3 day break could give her some much needed time to just take a break from it all, it does sound like its been very up and down lately so some time in the mountains could have a calming effect.

Yes, it is great that she wants to come and see you, she is probably missing you, bless her.

Im glad your mood has been lifted 

LT.

[Swimmy55]

This is very promising, LOTR!

[LoveOnTheRocks]

(BIG GRIN) This really is great news!  We all know there could be an epic explosion and she get kicked out, but I am NOT projecting this.  I am hopeful she will be ok right where she is.

[FaithHopeLove]

 

[wendydarling]

Wow   LotR this is wonderful news, what a great opportunity. Is this the place BF's mother's friend directed her to?

Your DD and you so deserve this break through.

Jumping with joy for you LotR!

WDx

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Hi Wendy, yes. it is.   

[LoveOnTheRocks]

   Im worn out physically, mentally and emotionally...and it's only been 24 hours since my last post, which had so much joy and optimism and blah, blah, blah.

My DD20 and I spent all day Saturday on and off the phone.  She's in this new place, no friends, so I didn't mind helping her pass her day and keeping her mood and mind regulated.  We made plans for her to come to our house Sunday and go through her things to "restock" clothes, etc., plus hubby and I plan to give her $100 to have some spending money on their mountain trip and so forth, plus she longs for mom's cooking, so I pulled out all her favorites to cook today (Sunday) in anticipation of enjoying a great day and ending it with a great meal before we take her back Sunday eve, and she gets on her trip early Monday morning.
THEN, WHAM!  She calls 9pm Sat. night, severely dysregulated.  Says BF just broke up with her. Demanding BF's mother's phone number (I don't know why).  Tells me she is NOT going to stay at this place she's at any longer! and demanding I come pick her up NOW! to which I state she cannot come stay at my house.  She says that's fine, we'll see, because she's sick and tired of it all and is going to kill herself anyway, We'll see...I tell her we likely won't be able to visit on Sunday, because when she gets like this, she has energy for hours and hours of hysteria and it tears me up, physically more than anything, and that's saying a lot.
I get off the phone with her (tragic call), and then my head and stomach are churning.  I end up having a horrible night...I've said I have a damaged central nervous system, and all things affect that.  My pain levels shot through the roof and the long and short is, I spent a vicious night going from chair to bed and sofa and wherever, with physical nerve pain so severe that I nearly lose my mind (this is not hyperbole, this is a real thing that goes on with me and it's unrelenting and unimaginable physical pain). Also, my mind is churning.  I am worried.  If she blew up her situation at this place, where will she go next?  She was so dysregulated and noone can talk to her when she's like this...she is ridiculous and unreasonable doesn't even begin to describe it.  Will these people see she has a mental illness or will they judge her as unruly and tell her that since she's over 18, she can leave or she must leave and we have a problem...will she say she's going to kill herself to them?...if so, did they send her to hospital?  On and on my mind replays the conversation with DD...and I have no idea what even went on with BF on the phone.
Sunday morning she calls, expecting me to be there at the planned time to do our day. Problem is, I am very weakened due to the hours overnight...physically/mentally...She casually tells me that she and BF talked after she got off the phone with me.  He is jealous because there are other boys at this place where she is. They've sorted themselves and are back together again. She just wants to confirm I'll be there at the planned time this morning. 
I carefully describe the impact of last night's dysregulation on me.  I also tell her that she needs a better way to handle things in her life when they go sideways which is why she so seriously needs to be working with a T.  I say that she's literally blown her life up because something happens and in her dysregulated emotional state, she does severe damage, only to find out that just like last night, only an hour later, she's back together with the BF but damage has been done as a result of the dysregulated state inbetween.  I explain she needs skills to help her work through her emotions when things kick off, so that less damage can happen.  THEN, I tell her that I will not be able to pick her up at the scheduled time because I am very weak now.  I need to recover physically today, and internally, I know that literally anything could go wrong while she's here going through her stuff and I am not physically or mentally in a place where I could cope today...I am exhausted and in a lot of pain right now. The barrage of accusations fly on the phone.  Per her, I didn't really want to see her, I am casting her aside like always and dont really love her.  I am the worst person in the world and she needs time to go through her stuff, etc. ,etc. etc.  Eventually, I get exhausted on the phone, can't get a word in edgewise and she refuses to hear what I am trying to communicate to her anyway, so husband takes phone over and when he's had his fill, he gets bottom line, he will be there at "x" time to pick her up, and if she's not happy, he won't come at all, but in the meantime he needs to cut the grass and is not going to spend any more precious time arguing with her on the phone and listening to all of her accusations. He eventually just hangs up followed by her calling repeatedly and aggressively screaming at us.
I dread her coming.  I am in no state and because of what has happened since last night, I am almost certain it's going to be a very unpleasant experience...this visit of ours, where we can give her our money and feed her all her favorites I've managed to cook today for her, all while she tells us what pieces of "S" we are.  I am tired mentally, hurting physically, and frankly, I just don't even want to see her...she's right...not because I dont love her and haven't missed her, and nevermind how excited I was yesterday in anticipation...taking care to get all her favorites cooked for her...but look at what's happened.

I told my Husband that we need to get a storage unit near this place she's at so she can get her things anytime she likes and I dont have to be held hostage to a timeline where even if it's going to be bad, I must see her, so she can switch her things out.  Frankly, when we set a time to see each other, it should be a time where we are socially getting together to enjoy each other's company.  Period.

Then there's the real issue which is her absolute refusal to get a T and work on making these things better.  This is such an impossible situation and there are no changes to look forward to at this time.  She doesn't agree with my assessment that she needs a T and nothing is going to change without that.  It is her dysregulation that causes so much more...drama...and all of it is literally rearing me up in every way it can.  I am at my wits end and my perception of my life, with all of these trials and troubles and endless conflicts is not a pleasure, at all.  I am not waking up happy enough...I wake in a lot of physical pain and have to work through that sometimes from minute to minute, and on the best days, I still have to go through a lot to manage it.  Add in all this extra stuff and it's just overwhelming and unpleasant.  Then, I am a believer but feel abandoned and unloved by God here...it's a terrible place to be, really. 

[FaithHopeLove]

How frustrating! You can't keep riding this roller coaster. I think a storage unit is a good idea. You know you can't change her. You can only change you. Have you thought about emotionally detaching from her drama and just letting her make her own adult choices? Your happiness cannot be contingent on her behavior.
hugs
Faith

[Longterm]

Hi LOTR.

It does sound like you are in a lot of pain most the time and your DD doesnt seem to understand which must be awful for you, especially when she makes demands without taking your issues into consideration.

It's just a brick wall isn't it. I experienced similar with my son, there was just no communication to be had, any interaction was him wanting something, if I said yes it was all good, if I said no it was just a complete explosion of shouting and violence. I think you have made the right decision on not allowing her to stay with you, it also sounds as though your husband is fed up by it all. You have made efforts in helping her and understanding what is going on, and also trying to get her into therapy and unfortunately she sounds very unresponsive. There is very little you can do at this point, as hurtful for you as that is.

I hope you have a better nights sleep  

LT.

[LoveOnTheRocks]

In ways, I am ashamed to say that my daughter came today and it was a beautiful visit without even one slight hiccup.  What a beautiful visit.  Not one issue.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

Oh LotR   what a weekend you've had, so classic BPD! As Faith say's you can't keep riding this roller coaster. In hindsight, is there anything you'd have done differently, do differently when your DD dysregulates that may help you move forward? The toll on you is immense.

Small gentle steps.

WDx

[Swimmy55]

One day at a time LOTR.  Enjoy the little gifts of each day. I am glad you had a nice visit !

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Oh LotR   what a weekend you've had, so classic BPD! As Faith say's you can't keep riding this roller coaster. In hindsight, is there anything you'd have done differently, do differently when your DD dysregulates that may help you move forward? The toll on you is immense.

Small gentle steps.

WDx

I am trying to learn how to handle myself around her by reading the articles here and what others are doing that helps them with their BPDs. 
I do feel better about my making and having boundaries.
I really hope she will ultimately stay at this place, because if she can use the resources they're offering, and get herself established and seeing a Dr. and using me for encouragement and support, but not in other ways that aren't good for either of us, it will be better for all of us.

[FaithHopeLove]

LOTR I am happy to hear that you are establishing boundaries that feel healthy to you. That is such a huge step toward finding some serenity in the midst of the BPD storm. I found this really interesting thread here where people are talking about language that they use to communicate boundaries. There are some great "short scripts" here. You could almost make flash cards out of them. . Here it is: Boundary Scripts
hugs
Faith

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Hi FHP!  That was a great thread to read (and of course, revisit to read and practice from again!).  Thank you so much for putting it out here.
LOTR

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