I hope I can find support here - BPD wife and current situation

[Dave89]

Hi there,

I am almost 30 years old and I have had a history of incredibly complicated relationships. So I met my wife when I was 21, married a year later. This is both of the first and only relationships we have ever had since we both were Jehovah's Witnesses. I am a co-dependent person, I had a terrible childhood when my dad passed away (very likely was killed) drowning and my mother was kind of quite cruel and non-emphatic person. She tried to seduce me I guess once. Psychological and physical violence was the norm. I became quite introvert since no one showed any sympathy after losing my dad and one year later his mom as well. I was constantly bullied in school, so on a positive note at least I got my milk teeth changed sooner. Every day I lived with fear and meaningless. So I lived my life in the way I could easily not be alive anymore. So I was searching for the answer about meaning in life and afterlife, got introduced to Jehovah's Witnesses on age 15, was a nice company and something to live for, that decreased my likelihood of dying significantly. I also developed an addiction to female dominance erotic and later porn (age 14-15). At least now I understand where that specific genre came from - remember my mom tried to seduced me when I was only around 11, shortly after my father was gone.  That was my only way to survive back then - having these intensive fantasies of pleasing beautiful women plus the Jehovas Witnesses thing to save everyone shortly before coming to Armagedon by preaching them, quite a combo. Plus I owned business to make good money off selling telescopes triple the purchase price with my friend when I was only 16 years old. I was always quite active in testing what there is in this life. A few years later 2009 came a world economic crash - so I refocused on spiritual things more than before. Money made no sense for me, it just gives 0 happiness, I understand that by age 18-19. A was this guy who could walk into the airport and buy any ticket and fly anywhere and book any hotel. Yes, that rich meaningless idiot.

So I was becoming more and more active witness (pioneer - preaching 70 hours) up until I met my wife by age 21 (she was 17). Yes, we "marry only in the lord" (read-only in JW's). I was still running high with my porn addiction plus my extreme emptiness of not having any chance to talk to anyone my real issues. And this was the first real person that finally listened to me. Yes, the same person that only after few times said she has to say something - her dad is the worst person in the world and few dates later, her best friend (female) is the worst person and took the chair in anger and destroy it because of this terrible friend. Hah, I am this "smart" (stupid) person, who only sow how much she loved me, it was so intense, no worse than my sexual fantasies. The first year in marriage - maybe I won't talk about it, it can be too much, but in short version, I discovered I am unable to have sex because of infection, so I had to make circumcision one and half years later (since I am very sensitive, it took me a LOONG time) and thank you mom and dad for newer shoving me that you need to wash yourself :D But it worked out well eventually. I also understand - I had a serious problem with my porn addiction, I was able to get some inner help in organization, so I felt it would be possible to get better with that. But my wife was amazing, in 2nd day of our marriage she got lost on honeymoon in another country - she ran away from me until I found her later. She always made me feel guilty, always, about everything. That was an incredibly difficult first year, we lived in a terrible apartment. A year and 3 months passed - so she separated, now finally I could work on myself, I made very good progress. So after another year and 3 months, she called - wanted a divorce, but when she was hearing how good I was - yeah, let's try again, why not. It took just two days to get my lovely wife rage out, I didn't do anything wrong, but it was how terrible I was before. And it just got worse and worse.

So long story short - she separated and reunited I guess some 30 times over our last 8 years. After her mother died, she divorced me, re-married four months later. Then a few months in our second marriage she with the help of a few nice friends went to police to claim domestic violence (was dropped in 8 months by the police itself because there was no evidence at all), oh, finally I got at least some more interesting action going on than fear of my life in house - went to the police to give report. She stayed at a domestic shelter. By this time I understand very clearly - it is not 100% problem with me, actually with those 8 years I have improved hugely, while she claims at times I am the worst devil on earth. After police two months passed - I promised myself - this is enough, we need to live separate lives, and she was back at my door - I didn't want to let her in, but my best friend and her wife pressured me to open the doors. Of course, it was so nice for the first month, and then, yeah, classic. And then, you know, I started to think - what is this? So I looked up, and there it was - it was as clear as day its almost 100% accurate description of BPD. So it was this year march I said to her, I know what is with you, my dear. Took some time and finally, a month ago psychiatric doctor without doubts said - she has BPD plus Bi-Polar.

Then on top of that, I had some issues with Jehovah's Witnesses - we believe we only now the absolute truth, so I just took my chance to double-check that on of their main teachings of the 1914 year as being of last days was incredibly wrong. So wrong that was refuted in late 1970ties so that they had to come up with apostate teaching that anyone who has even slightest doubts in any teachings should be disfellowshipped (read - left with no contact to 8 million people that aren't allowed to communicated). I was, hah, shocked, to say the least. This was always my stronghold I thought we are the ones. Yeah right, grow up boy, so researched Bible itself and it became clear that to prove Noa's worldwide flood being real 4000 years ago would take some quite supernatural things to happened afterward.

So in the last few months, I discovered her BPD, lost my faith, lost all my friends, now we had a conflict just over a week ago, she is at our last good friend's place (unfortunately JW's that can try to say that I am mentally diseased and she needs to go back to her hell - being a JW, which in itself was a good contributor to her illness, I believe). I could not even write 1/100 of what I had to go trough, it is just incredible that I am alive. So my current situation - I hope she finds an apartment and finally for the first time live separate for at least some months. As with BPS, you know it's not so easy, one hour ago she wrote to me that she wants me to call arrange a divorce, I know that she is in trance state, I saw her today coming with my good friends' wife and saw her mania-state face. I talked with her aunt, and told my feelings and that helped me a lot because she understands the situations quite well. I told her I won't reply. I doesn't make any sense to reply to such text messages with "?".  I also told that I am very worried of those JW people affecting her to start with this illness again (going to JW meetings and so on), then no future DBT therapy will be effective or whatsoever. She completely agreed.

I will tell you - she is a really good person, but this illness makes it impossible to live together, at least for now, so I hope she will get her own space (without any influencers) and take time to find some treatment hopefully within next few months. Although I also expect her to call me this night and be willing to come back to me and out of that tyranny which she now considers a divine family she is living with (pre-conflict situation when she makes herself do anything to please them and then she will be this angry victim of them, yes, I guess typical..).

Update just seconds ago while I am writing this: she in-text message threatens to otherwise go through police (if I don't call an arrange divorce tomorrow morning) which is the path, as she writes, we both don't want to go.

This makes my HSP person stomick sick as hell. I haven't been properly eaten for last 3 days, and because of these heavy feelings I cannot do anything with them, I even don't have anyone to call since all my JW friends are fake friends that will see me as the devil itself now because of my stand about the truth.

I had thoughts of passive suicide three days ago, now its a bit better, I re-started my consultation with the therapist. I am kind in a dark place after all of this, I hope you can understand. And its pitty I have to come to hear since I have no support system around me as I had for the last 10 years. Because talking to a trusted friend helps a lot for me, at least to relieve my extreme emotions when I am constantly going this harsh situation.

P.s. do you have any advice if I need to reply to her today, I really didn't expect she would bring the POLICE topic as a threat AGAIN (she said it was the worst thing she did, oh, when she was out of current MANIA state).

I am also sorry for my long rant.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Harri]

Hi and welcome.

Wow, you have been through a lot of really big changes.     I am glad to hear you are in therapy as that can be a place of support for you in addition to this site.  We get it here and while some of the details may vary from person to person we can certainly relate to the general circumstances and the emotions.

I had thoughts of passive suicide three days ago, now its a bit better,

I am glad it is better, even if only a little bit.  A lot of us can relate tot hat as well.  Are you safe now?  Is your therapist aware that you have had suicidal thoughts?  If not, can you please make sure you tell her so she can give you the proper support?  We are here too but having someone in real life is very helpful.  There is also a text line you can reach out to.  Just text help to 741741 and you will be able to chat with someone.  They can also refer you to local resources as well.  I mention this only as a safety net and so that you know you have help and options available.  Can you contact the text line and let us know how you make out?

Update just seconds ago while I am writing this: she in-text message threatens to otherwise go through police (if I don't call an arrange divorce tomorrow morning) which is the path, as she writes, we both don't want to go.

As you said above, this makes no sense.  If she called them, chances are they would refer her to a lawyer or say it is a civil/domestic matter.  If she wants to start divorce proceedings she can call a lawyer herself.  If you were to say something like "I do not want a divorce.  If you want one at this point, you can start the process though I would rather you didn't" how do you think that would go over?  Put it back on her but gently.  Let her know you don't want the divorce but she gets to choose.   It is hard to say at this point what sort of response she is looking for.  Aside from that, I am more interested in what you want and are hoping for regarding this relationship. 

What do you want?  How can we help you?

[Dave89]

Are you safe now?  Is your therapist aware that you have had suicidal thoughts?  If not, can you please make sure you tell her so she can give you the proper support?

Yes, now is much better. It can get very tough lately at times, but I am establishing relationships with one of my former work colleague, he is a very nice person. And I got to talk to him yesterday and got the support. I also talked with my wife's aunt and she understands and that helped me very much so. I live outside the US, so in my country, I have Red Cross helpline in case of suicidal thoughts, but I never had to use it, but I would do it in case of feeling emotionally very fragile. My therapist knows about it, and she, in case if its get worse, advised getting some doctor help likewise but seems I am doing better now. I had used all sorts of anti-depressants (for calming down and sleep) for many years, but I came off them two years ago by making high-quality organic juices every day. I am hoping to stay free of them since they made more problems than solutions. That's just a side note though.

As for divorce and police threats, I decided not to reply anything and to not validate her threats so that she would bring me into escalating her destructive behavior. If she wants to do it - she always can, but I won't take responsibility this time for her actions. I spoke with my lawyer just in case today as well. And he said not to worry likewise. It was just a heavy moment, but I have done the right thing, freed myself from taking guilt, procrastination, and other damaging emotions.

Aside from that, I am more interested in what you want and are hoping for regarding this relationship.  What do you want?  How can we help you?

Well, she now lives with my good friends, but we both with her aunt want her to start living on her own, without the influence of Jehovah's Witnesses again. Secondly, she needs to get to DBT therapy, somehow. Here the problem is, they have group therapy but in language wich, we don't speak very fluently as of now, but I guess its better than nothing. So from there, I have to see if there is some chance that she could get better and it would be possible in the future to create a relationship that is worth living in. I love her very much, but I don't want to live in mutually destructive relationships either. I try to be reasonable as much as I can. It's not only about me and my feelings, but it is also to understand what solution is best for both of us. I don't want to be in extreme - to stay together, no matter what, and the other one - you are destroying my life, you are manipulative evil person, so my life will only be happy without you. It's like finding a solution that would make the most sense out of the real-life possibilities. I also learned that even though being a highly sensitive person, I do not have to always use that capability, there are situations when I have to take a step back and not get involved in situations that will make things worse. Discipline towards myself is necessary in order to get to do things that make things work out in the long run.

I am actually very thankful for her illness in some ways at least, because it has taught me to be an even stronger person and to fight my tendencies of co-dependance and the low self-esteem that I had for most of my life. When your BPD takes you to extremes (for example, making you feel for many years that you have 100% guilt of everything that went wrong in relationships), your situation makes you realize, there are things that you need to adopt in order to fight it. More resistance creates a stronger person. You are becoming a better person every day. And you learn that never in your dreams you imagined that you can be as strong as you are now. I guess that is what makes our life meaning, to develop our personality to be able to withstand anything that may come. And having this that makes us even more able to help others and live out our responsibility to make things better for us, our family and society in this life that is generally defined as suffering for all of us and eventually ends in tragedy.  When you accept the reality and make the best out of this life, you start to live your life much more meaningfully. You grow up. Radical acceptance is something that is valuable not only for BPD but for everyone living on this earth. So that was my philosophical approach in a way.

I am very happy to have this chance to write down how I feel and know someone would validate at least some elements I write to their own experience. I will keep you updated on how things go with my wife.

[G1B8oN]

Hello, just to say I'm a fellow ex-JW and I know how much it can mess with your mind.

Even without the issues with your wife you've been through a significant trauma which I'm sure is being compounded by the subsequent  shunning.

Be kind to yourself, don't be afraid to question what you believe and maybe consider talking to a counsellor who specialises in people who have survived cult programming or join a fellow ex-JW group/forum. Welcome to the forum.  

[Dave89]

Hi G1B8oN,

I didn’t believe I would find exJW so quickly here, but I guess there are many out there. I am not officially DF but I guess there is almost no difference, unless you will only talk about weather. I cannot imagine myself listening to “rely on Jehovah” etc and worried not talking something that would be labeled as apostate. However I accepted the good I have learned being a JW such as setting good moral values in your life. I wouldn’t like to devote my whole life to ruminate about JW effects and being victim of them, but I see the point why it can be quite traumatic to many. My main worry though is losing my all support system so I need some time to find and gain new one. But that’s how we grow smarter. Now before joining everything - first I will read critics and if it’s ir-refutable, then stay as far as possible would be the best decision in my opinion.

By the way, do you think it is possible that somehow JW structure make BPD symptoms worse, since you are always like a small child - told what to believe and do based on believing that this ORG is somehow unikely guided by God holy spirit itself? My wife was there since age of 3, I think her mom was in such despair of don’t having any meaning in spite of her own suffering she experienced, she just wanted to get answers and logical about life - and there she had, just didn’t make her any happier in the long run, everyone was sitting in convetion rather than at her funeral, true friends, right.

[Dave89]

I am trying to understand what would be the best for both of us. I guess I need to let her make her decisions and take on the responsibilties. I feel that I over-protected her during these 8 years of our marriage and tried to resolve things on her behalf. I think I had good motives. But I came to understand the more order I tried to bring into her chaos, the more resistance came and the more alone I felt.

Last days I have been feeling sad and lonely. My heart still wants her, but my mind says that we need to wait, she needs to go therapy and I need to work with my co-dependance. I am bit worried though if she will find apartment and will be able to pay for it. I offered her part of our savings. She hasn’t write me much, just that she finished her things with bank, changed her phone subscription and that I “have teached her how to do all things in life and it works! No need for any university!”. She is using a lot of ! and ? marks. It is not common for her, she might have a lot of mixed emotions such as anger and love.

I don’t know if our marriage is something we can develop or it’s in our both interests to let go. For now my vision is separation and then to decide how we proceed. I know she is more radical - together or divorce. Then on top I have my guilt, that I could have been better, but my friend said that under the circumstances I had I did best. Well that’s something I find very hard to believe in. I punish myself a lot on how bad a person I am, I had low self-esteem long before this relationships, so that only made it worse. I am trying to do what helps, but my sadness is deep and I find very difficult to even eat with this feelings. I think the most I need is to have a friend to understand ans bare with me my emotional turmoil. For me, talking always helped, but now I find it difficult since all my old friends have left me, because I said my opinion on some trivial religious doctorine.

[G1B8oN]

Hello! Sorry I've taken so long to reply, my life is chaos right now! These are just my opinions but here goes...

My background is that I was born in the cult and questioned it from a very young age. I got really bored in meetings and so would read the bible, I probably read it ten times from cover to cover. I just could not see how they could preach about their loving god to outsiders and on the platform when the god described in their bible was cruel, vindictive...basically a monster. There were too many contradictions and I did not like the way women were treated in the religion (especially after a sister was made to stand on the platform and apologise for having premarital sex after she was raped), I didn't like how beliefs and teachings were suddenly forgotten whenever "new light" conveniently appeared. The cognitive dissonance was too much.

By the time I was 16 I refused to go to meetings and, after a lot of fighting and arguing with my parents, they accepted that I had never wanted to be part of the religion, had always fought it and they stopped trying to make me go. I never got baptised, I'd always refused to do talks and they stopped making me knock on doors because I would tell the people about all the bad stuff in the religion. After about 6 months my mum and brother stopped going too. My mum said it was like a light had gone on in her head and she'd suddenly seen it for what it really was. My dad still attends and thus shuns me and my brother most of the time.

I like to think that good moral values are human values that do not have to be taught around the construct of religion and a vengeful deity.

I do think that one thing the religion teaches you is to tolerate huge amounts of cognitive dissonance. It also discourages critical thinking and encourages you to always turn the other cheek. All these things make a person vulnerable to exploitation by a person with BPD and is probably part of the reason why we have attracted these individuals and then tolerated their abuse for so long.

As for people with BPD who are in the religion, yes, I can definitely see how they may be affected. As you say, it tends to infantalise it's members by treating them like children. It also normalises a lot of controlling behaviour. It also encourages paranoia, something pwBPD already struggle with and teaches them that the whole world is against them. Another thing the religion does it tolerate abuse of many kinds by hiding it. Children who are sexually abused are ignored unless there are two eyewitnesses to their abuse, the police are almost never involved, ministerial servants and elders who commit abuse are moved around from congregation to congregation much like the Catholic church does/did with priests who abuse.

[Dave89]

That's a lot you have been trough. It amazes me that you already in teens come to conclusions that what you're being thought and the actions just don't match. I believe everyone has their own rights to choose if he or she wants to believe, it is very intimate (including children). Unfortunately many JW families tend to use threats to make you fear of leaving. I agree with the most things you wrote though.

Yes, my wife was totally un-prepared for real life. I talked with her aunt and she agrees also, that this religion had a lot of affect on her mental health as well. Her other aunt (who is JW, special pioneer) most likely has BPD as well since she has very similar ways of dealing with things than my wife.

Anyway, I probably should stop writing about religion since this board is about BPD and this seem to go a bit off-topic. But I appreciated your input. I hope things goes well in your case with your partner, whatever the best outcome for both of you would be. And take care of yourself as well.