Like clockwork, I'm painted black.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

     I don't know how to handle this, and it seems that I'm failing.
     My husband is mad at me again and is pushing me away. He's said some mean things and has told me that he didn't want anything to do with me...again. I am just so fed up with this behavior, and am beginning to feel as though it will never end. I am doomed to a marriage in which I can't ask questions or share my feelings for fear of being painted black. I feel as though I don't know this man, and certainly do not like him; much less love this mean person.  So I let him have his space, and go away. He told me tonight that he didn't want to go with me to a concert, although  asked him if he wanted to go. It's as though I am talking to two different people, jekyll and hyde. He loves me deeply and then decides that I am worthless the next day. The difference is that I don't believe him anymore.
      He makes plans and then changes them. He promises me that he will do something and then acts as though he never did. I can't count on him to be consistent. Is this the same thing that others are going through with their BPD SO? I can't count on him, but I can on myself.  He's trying so hard to push me away. When he comes back to the relationship (days, weeks later) he expects me to just forget it all happened and says that he knows he's difficult. He has no idea that my love for him has changed. I love him, but I don't like the person he is when he is split.
      So frustrated. Will it ever end? Unfortunately I know the answer to that.
     

[loyalwife]

     I don't know how to handle this, and it seems that I'm failing.
     My husband is mad at me again and is pushing me away. He's said some mean things and has told me that he didn't want anything to do with me...again. I am just so fed up with this behavior, and am beginning to feel as though it will never end. I am doomed to a marriage in which I can't ask questions or share my feelings for fear of being painted black. I feel as though I don't know this man, and certainly do not like him; much less love this mean person.  So I let him have his space, and go away. He told me tonight that he didn't want to go with me to a concert, although  asked him if he wanted to go. It's as though I am talking to two different people, jekyll and hyde. He loves me deeply and then decides that I am worthless the next day. The difference is that I don't believe him anymore.
      He makes plans and then changes them. He promises me that he will do something and then acts as though he never did. I can't count on him to be consistent. Is this the same thing that others are going through with their BPD SO? I can't count on him, but I can on myself.  He's trying so hard to push me away. When he comes back to the relationship (days, weeks later) he expects me to just forget it all happened and says that he knows he's difficult. He has no idea that my love for him has changed. I love him, but I don't like the person he is when he is split.
      So frustrated. Will it ever end? Unfortunately I know the answer to that.
     

[AskingWhy]

LW, I have been with my uBPD H for more than twenty years.   It was only in the last five years or so that I really grasped how my low self esteem played into my fear of H actually leaving.

Threats to leave/divorce are very common with pwBPD.  It is often a bluff as terrifying fear of abandonment is part of BPD.

As for your H's forgetting promises, he may have actually forgotten.   BPDs disassociate and have no memory of other states of mind.  It truly is Jekyll and Hyde.  When a BPD man says he hates you, in that moment in time, he truly does.  He has no memory of when he loves you.  It's odd for us nons to understand this.

For me, loving myself brought a realisation that I was lovable and I was free to leave my H.  He would be devastated.  At a certain point, I started laughing at him, including the divorce threats.   This might not be an approach you can use, but it works for me. When my H dysregulates, he wants me to be upset or fear losing him.   I got beyond caring, to be honest.  

Now when H starts going down the road of painting me black, it's like, "Whatever. "  H no longer has power over me. It's liberating to no longer be codependent.   At one time, a single instance of name-calling (the worst names and obscenities) with a divorce threat would have me hysterical in tears, begging him not to leave me, promising not to make him mad, begging to make things right.

It took me years to get to this place.  One day I had enough resolve never to take second place to his adult children or be his punching bag when he had a bad day or was reminded of his childhood and uNPD F.

Never forget that you have the option to leave.  No one can make you feel like dirt unless you give them permission.

 

[formflier]

     
     My husband is mad at me again and is pushing me away. 

Am I correct that you are taking this very personally?

I am going to venture a guess that you actually have very little to do with it.  Look at the way I've edited the quote. 

Would you react differently if your hubby was mad at the neighbor and wanted time alone (still pushed you away?)

Best,

FF

[loyalwife]

AskingWhy:

Never forget that you have the option to leave.  No one can make you feel like dirt unless you give them permission.

     "Low self esteem". That is a defect that I struggle with, and that is what keeps me 'trying' to fix things. After a few years of learning about BPD, I started to react differently to his outbursts. It has changed his acceleration rate, which would escalate from "go away" to "I'm not interested" to"I want a divorce". Not to say that he won't go to the divorce spot, just not as fast. I have learned to stay out of his destructing path to protect myself. I learned to love myself.
     Last night, I went out for a nice salad (brought it home) and sat out in the moonlight eating strawberries/tomatoes and mozzarella cheese. It was peaceful. I know that his mind is full of self hate and anger, so why put myself in danger of being a target? I went to bed early, and slept well. (actually zQuil helped).
     The power to leave, comes in small doses. Not engaging is powerful. Disconnecting and self preservation are baby steps. I talked to him briefly in regards to some business I needed to do today that was preplanned. He mentioned that I intentionally set him off and that I know his 'triggers', but chose to continually step on his toes. After months of side stepping, I'm human and respond authentically (which creates havoc). He said that there isn't a resolution and that our lives will continue to be like it is. I did take a leap of faith and confronted him on pushing me away. I told him that when he does this, it hurts me. I asked him what he would do if I did this to him and he said "I'd be long gone". Obviously, this would hurt him. Although the conversation took a roundabout (past etc.), I left him with "Don't hurt me". It is emotional abuse. It took courage to face him with this, but it is true. In order to build self-esteem, not taking abuse is critical. As I said again "Don't hurt me", I kept inside the fact that with every "push away" and "I'm not interested", a little bit of my love for him goes away. So, he's trying to fulfill his belief that I will go away, and he can satisfy that part of him that fears abandonment. Ultimately, this is the reality of living with someone with BPD. Their self loathing is at the bottom of it all, and as loved ones we get the brunt of it.

FF: It is madness. It always has been and his mind has a way of taking truth and turning it around to suit his madness. He alienates everyone from his life as he turns reality into his reality. And yes, I did take it personally (again). I watched my mother cry when my father said mean things to her, or pushed her away. (usually into her bedroom). I dried her tears, and in my heart never wanted to experience that kind of pain. But I do. Not until today did I stick up for my own heart, something she wasn't able to do, out of fear. I felt as though I was also standing up for her, in a weird way.
     There may be a consequence to standing up for my own feelings. Now that I have brought it up, he may decide that he isn't getting the results he wanted. That in the past I happily (not really) accepted his abuse as being deserved. His whipping post just spoke up. At this point in time, I'm learning to be a life coach, and working on myself so that I can help others. Self-esteem is high on the list, and this was my first step at improving it.
     And so, another episode of "The Twilight Zone" is almost over. I can tell when he is baselining as his voice and eyes change back. Not sure what it was that I said that hit the nail, but I did validate his feelings and didn't discount how he felt. I'm sure he doesn't care that he is hurting me. His look good to the world, just looked bad when I confronted his pushing away as emotional abuse. What initially provoked the outburst had little to do with me, and more to do with everything in his life. I was just prime candidate to hit. It's possible that my purpose in his life is to take his outbursts. I do have choices. And I will not take abuse.
      When I step away and view our life from the outside, I can see lot's of destruction on his side. Not only of others, but himself. On my side, I see relationships and change. I don't want to leave him because when he isn't
'mad', he's a great guy, and I love him. I just do not love his evil side at all. Is wanting time alone his need? 

[formflier]

Let me ask a different way...

Help me understand how he "hooks" you with untrue statements/opinions/stuff...


If he said "loyalwife, is in love with a two horned blue unicorn"...would it upset you?

Compare that to things he says which do upset you (I'm assuming you would be able to let the unicorn thing go)...what is the difference?

Best,

FF

[Lucky Jim]

Hey loyalwife, Those w/BPD will try to manipulate you through F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt).  For example, when he pushes you away or disparages you, it's an application of Fear.  I'm sure you can think of other instances when he has used Obligation and/or Guilt to twist your arm, to get you to do (or not do) something.

The key is to recognize it when he's using F-O-G on you, which allows you to defuse it.  To the extent you are aware when he's attempting to manipulate you, you are in a position to change the outcome.  Does this make sense?

LuckyJim

[Cat Familiar]

What if you assume that he is untrustworthy and that whatever he promises, he is possibly not going to follow through. Then if he does do what he's said, you will be pleasantly surprised.

It's good that you went out for a salad. But next time, what if you didn't bring it home? Do you have friends you can do things with?

At the first hint of him pushing you away, if you take the initiative and leave to do something you'd enjoy, you will break the pattern of seeming to be hurt by his moodiness and he will be surprised that you're responding differently.

[formflier]

The key is to recognize it when he's using F-O-G on you, which allows you to defuse it.  To the extent you are aware when he's attempting to manipulate you, you are in a position to change the outcome.  Does this make sense?

This is the essence of where I was going..

FOG is ridiculous..and when there is an attempt to use it with a ridiculous example (the two horned unicorn)...it's easy for most of us to blow it off.  To make sure the manipulation doesn't work.

However...when there is a "kernel" of truth to it..or it's close to the kernel of truth, for some reason we "nons" can get hooked...and "get lost in the fog".

Let's focus on how you get hooked...

Best,

FF

[loyalwife]

This is a core piece.

Let's focus on how you get hooked

When he is assigning fault and blaming everyone for his woes, I am always in the mix. I can hear the lies, and cover ups and dismiss them,  but when it comes to "we had a month of happiness" I fold. It is FOG, I see that now. I go right to "I'm not good enough" and "You'd be better off without me" mode. And I do get lost.

The disengaging is getting easier. I was out and about earlier today and he texted me saying that my phone showed I'd been at a Holiday Inn for 3 hours. I had to laugh, as I'd been in traffic. I just ignored this. What in the heck? If I'd said that to him he'd go ballistic.

I am emotionally exhausted tonight. And sad. Deep down, it's my lack of self-esteem that is keeping me stuck. I'm working on it, a little at a time. Not buying into his meanness is the first step. And daring to be autonomous is required.

Thank you for bringing this up.

[formflier]

ugg..did I understand it correctly.  Your phone/location is remotely monitored by your pwBPD?

Best,

FF

[loyalwife]

ugg..did I understand it correctly.  Your phone/location is remotely monitored by your pwBPD?

     Yes. Everything in my life is. Our cars are locatable through the system installed. Last night he slept on the couch and is huffing around me still. I decided to take care of myself, took a shower and made an egg. He came in and replied "Going back to the hotel again today?". I confronted him with how that made me feel and that I am LOYAL. I have been since day one. Where does this mistrust come from? His lack of loyalty or just jealousy.  I've never even looked at another man.
      He told me to let him be, and I am. I can't make this any different than it is, except not letting HIS misery become mine. I read somewhere that the pwBPD will continue to push until you finally leave, and then they can fulfill their belief that they are abandoned. His ex did that. I'm sure that the majority of those in his life have too. Here I am, loyal. It takes a strong centered individual to remain in a relationship with this type of personality. It's difficult to love someone when they don't love themselves, and really haven't any idea what love is.
     By the way, he used to be able to read my email etc., and had ways of monitoring my computer. I just gave up on caring about it.

[Lucky Jim]

    By the way, he used to be able to read my email etc., and had ways of monitoring my computer. I just gave up on caring about it.

Hey loyalwife, It's time to take back your personal zone of privacy.  The answer is boundaries (see Tools, above).  You need your space, in my view, if you're going to find your way out of the BPD swamp.  It's crucial to avoid isolation, which is why it's important to be free to communicate with the outside world.  Otherwise, you can lose all perspective, which is not fun, believe me.

LJ

[formflier]

Hey...please understand you invalidated him when you "confronted" him and told him you were loyal.

ONce I gave up doing that my relationship got much better.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Can you put in your own words why insisting you are loyal is invalidating?

Note..I'm not saying you should agree either...

After reading the article..what is the better way?

Let's shift gears: 

Can you list out what is private and what is monitored?

That's something to start chipping away at.

Best,

FF

[loyalwife]

It's crucial to avoid isolation, which is why it's important to be free to communicate with the outside world.

Agreed!
     I'm doing more of this, without worry of his response to me "doing my own thing". He is less restrictive that a few years ago, yet, he has 'tiles' on all my keys etc.  I don't care, as it's more important to have my own space than to deal with his insecurities.

FF

Hey...please understand you invalidated him when you "confronted" him and told him you were loyal.

I see your point. Probably not saying anything would have been better, although I did have the opportunity later in the day. He said "There may be a time that you get tired of all of this, and leave". I remained silent. If I told him that was an option (validate), he'd get mad, and if I told him I'd never (invalidate), he wouldn't believe me. Obviously, he only hears what he is saying. It was easier to let go of this statement  than the accusation that I was having an affair. I did put up a boundary and said that if that were the case, I'd make sure he knew and would leave.  No question and would expect the same of him. Is it the reaction they look for?
     He is back to center now, after two days of being out there. He explained how stressed he was, and I listened to validated. But you know what? He's absolutely right about getting tired of the roller coaster. So tired.

[Cat Familiar]

If I remember correctly, he is uneasy about your relationship with your adult son?

[AskingWhy]

LW, it's empowering to look back and realise you have power over your own actions.

Your self worth is not dictated by your H.  For years, my uBPD H could have me in tears by threatening to leave.  He'd call me the worst names imaginable.  (The "C" word, the "B" word, etc.)  I was immediately forced to face my own abandonment issues.  (My own FOO was abusive and invalidating.)

It took time, almost 20 years, for me to recover my own self esteem and sense of worth.  At some point, I looked at the way me H treated me, and I told myself, "I don't deserve this."  

What do we do with a misbehaving child, as BPDs have the emotions of young children?  We put them in their place and enforce boundaries.  Again, this is not easy if one's partner is totally out of control or violent.  (In those instances, a call to the local DV agency is in order.)  But with my own H, sometimes I give him a taste of his own medicine.  It stops him in his tracks.  This is the NPD side of BPD.  Now if my H tells me he wants a divorce, I tell him he's free to do what he wants, and without any emotion of upset or anger on my part.  I say this clearly and factually, and then go about my business and don't engage.  I do not validate his anger, threats or dysregulation with emotional responses.

If he wants to leave me, he is free to leave, in other words.  (I know he most likely will not.  Twenty years of divorce threats makes me conclude this.)

   Where does this mistrust come from? His lack of loyalty or just jealousy.  I've never even looked at another man.
       
     By the way, he used to be able to read my email etc., and had ways of monitoring my computer. I just gave up on caring about it.

pwBPD are incredibly insecure, and their rages give them a perceived sense of control. They abuse their partners for this reason.  It's because they lacked control in childhood.

Reading mail and spying on locations is a violation of boundaries.  Pure and simple.  You are not beholden to you H for anything.  You must feel like a prisoner in your own house.

I am at the point when my H is raging or pouting, I see before me a  very little boy trying to get his way.

When my H would drive away for hours after a divorce threat, I would be terrified for hours.  Then he'd come back and force me to apologise for whatever I did to make him mad.  (OK, no one can force anyone to do anything. It's all choices.)  Now my H knows those threats don't mean anything to me anymore.

If H even thinks about storming out, he knows I won't even look up as he goes out the door.

 

[loyalwife]

     

pwBPD are incredibly insecure, and their rages give them a perceived sense of control. They abuse their partners for this reason.  It's because they lacked control in childhood.

     As much as I want to believe that things will get better, I know they won't. My husband treats me as though I'm an intruder, instead of his wife. He told me again that I wasn't "the fun girl" that he married. I can't disagree, I'm not. A long the road of his switching, treating me like crap. I treat my dog better than he does me when he is in the 'rabbit hole'. I made him mad today by saying that he must like being in there. He told me "f...y...".  It's his place of safety, a place that he can be alone and feel sorry for himself (he even said he felt sorry for himself), that he is mistreated and taken advantage of. Boo hoo.
     There was a time, that my feelings were more of sadness. Right now I feel anger at him for being so selfish. It's all about him, always.
     The control is horrible. He has pushed everyone in his life out of his life but me. His family, my kids, his friends.  He told me that he hadn't been happy since the day we got married.  He said that we would muddle through it, and that it was 'wrecked' and horribly repaired. Not exactly the words you want to hear from someone you love. But it's how he feels.
      What prevents him from just leaving? If I felt the way he does, I'd be packing my bags and heading out the door. Instead he has the deer in the headlights look of craziness. What is preventing him from divorcing me, if he is unhappy?  Somehow this seems like a repeat of his behavior, and a way for him to get the results he wants.
       Fun girl?  Hell no.  I see no fun in being abused and treated like dirt. He's a mean man that wants everyone to suffer like he has. I'm at my wits end, again. How do you live with a toddler, who consistently can't make up their minds.
      Hurting.

[Red5]

Fun girl?… Hell no... I see no fun in being abused and treated like dirt. He's a mean man that wants everyone to suffer like he has. I'm at my wits end, again. How do you live with a toddler, who consistently can't make up their minds… Hurting.

Hello loyalwife,

I am very sorry that your dealing with this… I too know how it feels when our partners are 'projecting' onto us seemingly non-stop, when we become their emotional teething ring 24/7… when nothing we do seems to be right, when they make us feel everything is our fault, they we are an utter failure!… we feel like we are continuously getting an "F" on our relationship report card, no matter how hard we try…

I remember the non-stop emotional dysregulations, I remember my udx bpd wife acting like a petulant teenager, whom was not getting her way, or else "bullying" me trying to get me to feel worthless… its called gas-lighting… basically is a tool of brainwashing, whether or not the pw/bpd realizes what they are actually doing, hard to say…

I think… from what I've read, that the pw/bpd is developmentally delayed, stuck in their own past somewhere, stuck in some trauma that they experienced when they were kids… and now, they cant cope with even the simplest of relationship communications… they feel threatened by us somehow… so they lash out, sideways… its a defensive mechanism for them…

I too was on the receiving end for years, and I didn't understand what was going on, I thought I was the one whom was "broken", after all, that's what she was telling me, screaming at me… shutting down on me, giving me the silent treatment… I was really lost for a long time… and I made it all much worse for a long time as well, because I would fight back, attempt to reason with her (JADE)… this "gas-lighting" will get to you after a prolonged period… you will lose yourself… and you will start to believe them when they constantly tell you that you are wrong, stupid, lazy, fill on the ____, all "projection"...

You have to shake it off, you have to put them "at arms length"… its so hard I know, when they are "at you" all day, and night sometimes… you get so worn down… you become despondent after a while… you just want them to stop… you become, and act like someone you don't want to be… in a self preservation - survival mode, I surely did,

I didn't even want to come home from work most days, when she traveled for her job, I was like… "thank God"… I get a break for a few days… to try and center myself again…

Lots of great advice, and tools to use as described by the other posters above…

Hang in there, and keep posting, you are not alone loyalwife,

Kind Regards, Red5

[secretgirl]

Hi loyal wife ... I’m having an epiphany today because my ubpdexbf (well probably still my bf but he’s blocked me now) is the exact same as your H. Very insecure , very jealous etc.
I’m only now realizing what user Askingwhy is saying ... they are legitimately like kids. After talking to my counsellor today about what just happened between my ubpdbf and I... it comes down to two options ... asking them whether they LIKE this conflict or what on their part they will do to try and change it because you’re doing everything on your part
OR ... accepting them the way they are and if this is the case , I’m assuming we have to be like how “Askingwhy” presents it.
My ubpdbf has threatened to ditch me a billion times in the last 8 months . Almost on a weekly basis . I’ve noticed a pattern ... every time I’m SAD and beg and cry, he increases the punishment and is more mean.. every time I DONT care , he comes back to me crying... the trick is, I think, is to get to a point where we don’t let the anger bother us because we are confident people .
I still struggle with this to be honest because I sometimes JADE still instead which is BAD as we know . So for future I will still JADE BUT instead, JADE in my own head not speak it out loud.

So for example , my ubpdbfs jealousy is so out of this world that if things are going too smoothly he will find anything to accuse me of (my last post describes this) just to push me away and test my love . This time ... I basically told him to beat it probably not good ... and not the way I should’ve handled it actually . I should’ve not defended myself . BUT what I AM proud of is that I didn’t apologize this time for something I’m being accused of that I DIDNT do.
So instead of defending myself next time, I just will remain calm and quiet like AskingWHy says ... and almost not let it affect you.
It does take a lot of strength and believe me ... I’m at a point where I don’t get sad anymore but actually I wanna lash back (not good either) but like you said, when they’re good , they’re good men/women...
so I’m starting to realize the trick IS to treat them like a child .
I’m sure your husband loves you very much especially if he’s so insecure of you cheating etc . Just like my bf ... but how do we handle this ? That’s the trick. By KNOWING deep down we aren’t cheaters... and not having to actually defend yourself . Just knowing it to our cores