Part 4 step parenting uBPD SD22 with suicidal ideation

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

*mod note: this thread was split from a previous discussion found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338261.30


FF, that's good language to add to the eval piece.

My T said, This is the first step in information gathering. Get the ball rolling.

I'm sure we will be chipping away at this some more once the T responds.

Super proud of you standing up for yourself on date night!  I got the vibe he was trying to minimize your needs and maximize SD22s needs...and you stood up for yourself.  Did he ever circle back and reflect on this some more?  

No reflection. Although we worked through it in the car in light of recent discussions we've had about being codependent with our kids. We're both working on this with our respective kids (with different issues). So there is a foundation for moving back to center together.

Tonight, SD22 talked to BF on the phone, who talked for over an hour about his own issues. SD22 then talked to H about BF's issues. Apparently she then got angry at H for giving advice, stormed upstairs, started beating up the room (?). Loud bangs. H shrugged and said, Maybe she's discharging anger. I'm not going to follow her.

I didn't want anything to get broken so we both went up and asked if she was ok, did something fall. A clipped response came back, "No."

Then she stormed downstairs, looking disheveled, angry (bottled up). She got irritated with H, who was trying to find some neutral ground talking about a show she recommended, that he is now watching.

She said, I don't want to talk about this for 24 hours.

H said, About the show?

She realized what he was saying, then stormed outside.

H didn't follow. We went back to chatting, looking at vacation pictures.

To her credit, SD22 returned to some kind of baseline. She came back inside and tried to joke with H, attempts to repair, although her emotions were still high and hot and front and center.

He stayed neutral, didn't try to appease her. Just went about making dinner, responding to cues when she made overtures to normalize.

My hunch us that SD22 wants H to pay for BF to move closer to her up where she'll be teaching and living. She can't figure out a way to ask for this so it's coming out in strange ways. She said, "BF's dad has headaches that are affecting his brain so BF has to move out. He doesn't make enough money for his parents so they want him to leave."

Eye roll-a-rama.

[livednlearned]

*mod note: this thread was split from a previous discussion found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338261.30


FF, that's good language to add to the eval piece.

My T said, This is the first step in information gathering. Get the ball rolling.

I'm sure we will be chipping away at this some more once the T responds.

Super proud of you standing up for yourself on date night!  I got the vibe he was trying to minimize your needs and maximize SD22s needs...and you stood up for yourself.  Did he ever circle back and reflect on this some more?  

No reflection. Although we worked through it in the car in light of recent discussions we've had about being codependent with our kids. We're both working on this with our respective kids (with different issues). So there is a foundation for moving back to center together.

Tonight, SD22 talked to BF on the phone, who talked for over an hour about his own issues. SD22 then talked to H about BF's issues. Apparently she then got angry at H for giving advice, stormed upstairs, started beating up the room (?). Loud bangs. H shrugged and said, Maybe she's discharging anger. I'm not going to follow her.

I didn't want anything to get broken so we both went up and asked if she was ok, did something fall. A clipped response came back, "No."

Then she stormed downstairs, looking disheveled, angry (bottled up). She got irritated with H, who was trying to find some neutral ground talking about a show she recommended, that he is now watching.

She said, I don't want to talk about this for 24 hours.

H said, About the show?

She realized what he was saying, then stormed outside.

H didn't follow. We went back to chatting, looking at vacation pictures.

To her credit, SD22 returned to some kind of baseline. She came back inside and tried to joke with H, attempts to repair, although her emotions were still high and hot and front and center.

He stayed neutral, didn't try to appease her. Just went about making dinner, responding to cues when she made overtures to normalize.

My hunch us that SD22 wants H to pay for BF to move closer to her up where she'll be teaching and living. She can't figure out a way to ask for this so it's coming out in strange ways. She said, "BF's dad has headaches that are affecting his brain so BF has to move out. He doesn't make enough money for his parents so they want him to leave."

Eye roll-a-rama.

[formflier]

I think the way you guys handled the outburst and aftermath is good. 

I like that she wants to wait 24 hours. 

I'll add to the analysis, although more generally.  She realizes that the BFs issues are outside her control/boundaries...and she is trying to figure out a way to get him "rescued". 

She likely gets that it's BFs issue to deal with (or not). 

Really..that's the thing for you and H to get ready with.  Not to give suggestions...but go shrug..sigh...and then express confidence that he will solve it.

Is there any chance your H would even consider "helping" or "giving advice by proxy"? (I hope not)

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

I shared with H the three items for SD22's T.

These were the points:

Both you and SD22's psychiatrist have said that she is chronically suicidal. What advice do you have for me about how I can best support her? Is there a safety plan template or interventionist expert who can help us prepare an effective safety net for her? She has a history of calling all family members when she expresses suicidality. It’s difficult for us to know when to worry and how or when to act.

Independent of each other, several family members have suspected that SD22 might have traits of borderline personality disorder, in addition to possible autistic traits. SD22’s mother is believed to have borderline personality disorder and same with my sister, and potentially my mother.

SD22 has not had an evaluation since she was a teenager. With that in mind, can you help me understand what a full psychiatric evaluation entails, and do you think there is a safe and healthy way for me to encourage SD22 to move forward with this?

I let H know in advance, "This is going to be tough. I didn't tiptoe around, this is too important." He said he was ready. I asked him if SD22's T knew that there was BPD in the family and H said, "Ex has never been diagnosed."



Do you see that move? It says to me, "Stay out. You're going too far."

He's in conflict with himself, probably with me, and maybe even angry to have me so deep in this.

I'm grateful that you've all walked with me through this. Part of me wanted to fold. I'm reluctantly committed to making this my business even though deep down I feel unsure.

H is the one who told me that his ex was BPD. SD25 has had two Ts who suggested her mom was BPD. H has said his sister is BPD. He also refers to his mother (deceased) as having had some kind of "psychopathology."

What's weird is pretending that SD22 wouldn't have BPD given the family history of it. Playing devil's advocate, I said to my own T, "How do you know I'm accurate about SD22 having BPD?" She said, "Even if half of what you say is true, SD22 sounds like textbook BPD."

H said about the items, "I'm going to send it. I'll put it in my own words, but I'll send it."

He didn't copy me on the email or send me what he wrote, only confirmed that he sent it.

It's a really touchy sore spot right now so I'll wait and ask in a few days if he heard back from T.

Meanwhile, SD22 was here for a while with BF. SD22 announced, "BF says he wants to stay a second night and leave really early the next morning." Like it was his place to decide 

I was at the stove, with my back to her. H did the math, "Doesn't that mean BF has to leave at 4:30am?" That's how he expresses his feelings. Instead of, "BF can ask me or LnL if that works for us. We'll let you know."

As I get better at this stuff, I'm hoping I can address it in the moment. Instead, I listened and did nothing. I read somewhere that having a strategy sometimes mean waiting things out -- it can feel like compliance even though in the big picture it's not. So I'm going with that 

I did follow up directly with BF the next day. "Hey, I'm glad you feel comfortable staying here. SD22 may not know everything we have going on in our house -- it's a good idea to check with me to make sure we have enough beds and the timing works out with my schedule and H's. If it doesn't, you and SD22 can always stay in a nearby hotel -- we have lots of guests who do that, especially while SD25's been living here."

I think I need to back off a bit for now and focus on my own child (whole other story) and let things cool off with H. We are ok ... I also feel the temperature has risen, pushing him before he's ready.

[formflier]

I think I need to back off a bit for now and focus on my own child (whole other story) and let things cool off with H. We are ok ... I also feel the temperature has risen, pushing him before he's ready.

Umm...I was with you until this? 

I think you need to keep the temp even.  Keep stirring the pot. 

Seriously...most cooking is done at a constant temp. 

Perhaps another analogy.  Take two steps forward.  Wait...Take another step forward.  Wait.  Decide to take one or two steps forward.

This is strategic.  You know that you are way off the "path" you need to be.  So...put way more thought and energy into "steps back"..than into "steps forward". 

Does that make sense?

I don't agree with your interpretation of hubby to mean "stay out".  I see it likely me.."this is hard".

If he wants you to stay out...he knows you aren't a mind reader.  He will use his words.  Otherwise...assume the best..don't over function for him.

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

you need to keep the temp even.  Keep stirring the pot.

I thought you guys might say that.

I don't agree with your interpretation of hubby to mean "stay out".  I see it likely me.."this is hard".

I see it as, "Just because my ex is BPD, and my sister is BPD, and possibly my mom, too, doesn't mean SD22 is BPD. But wait ... that sounds like denial even to me. I'm a rational guy and this feels really emotional so I'm going to kind of argue with you on a technical point and then stop arguing because I can't defend what you're saying since I'm the one who concluded BPD is in my family. I don't like the conclusion being extended to SD22 because that reflects on me as a parent..."

don't over function for him.

Maybe we have different definitions of overfunction. To me, overfunction means asking to have him forward a copy of the email. Or asking him daily whether he has heard back from the T.

To be honest, I'm not feeling super optimistic about all this. I read the parenting a child with BPD board and even when two committed parents try to get a minor child treatment, there are so many cracks for things to fall through. What is the T here going to say, really?

Having said that, I do feel it's positive that we took this big step together. At the very least it moves something forward. We are in motion and that is not nothing.  

[worriedStepmom]

Maybe we have different definitions of overfunction. To me, overfunction means asking to have him forward a copy of the email. Or asking him daily whether he has heard back from the T.

By this definition, I think you are going to have to overfunction for him in terms of concrete actions that he already agreed to take, because his emotional flooding means he is not necessarily capable of following through.

I would ask him once a day - and only once a day - whether he has heard back from the T.

And I absolutely would have nagged my H to show me the email.  If mine had acted like yours I would have been highly suspicious that the email he sent bore no relationship to the one he agreed to send.

I think you should not overfunction for him in terms of his emotions.  Don't read into what he is saying.  Ask questions to help him verbalize what he actually means, but try not to assume.  I can think of a lot of different explanations for his comment "She's never been diagnosed"...if you choose the wrong one, then that may lead you to limit your choices in a way that you shouldn't.

[formflier]

First of all...I 100% agree things are in motion and that is FAR from nothing.  He is apparently communicating with SD22s T.  That is huge.   

Maybe we have different definitions of overfunction. To me, overfunction means asking to have him forward a copy of the email. Or asking him daily whether he has heard back from the T.
 

Overfunction. 

He is an adult if he wants you to understand "stay out"...he has a mouth and has words and can use them.  Don't save him from inability to use his words (if you are correct in your interpretation)

Here is the thing..we'll never know what he really meant.  Perhaps it meant what he said (plainly interpreted) and nothing more.


I'm also onboard with you NOT asking to be on CC line or Bcc line.  (hang with me..I want you to be there..but I want to see what he will do "unprompted")
 
I also think you should not directly ask if he has gotten a response.  Perhaps something along the lines of "How are things going with SD22 T"  (again..to let him fill in the blanks he wants to)

After a couple things like this I think we will have a clear view of how he will act unprompted or "unasked", which will then be a good thing to have a "multi-paragraph" talk about.

The quick version.."is this "us" working on this issue or "you"..or "me"..."

Circling back around to "overfunction"...perhaps "mindreading" would be better or  focusing on "implicit" messages vice "explicit".

Since the subject is SI...(and other serious matters)..this is not a place for implicit. 

What's going on with the job offers?

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

I see how you're both defining over function.

worriedStepmom, like you, my instinct is to ask to see H's email. I have been thinking of saying, "Can I see how you worded things to the T? It will help me understand what parts of what I wrote you connected with, and what parts you didn't."

Thoughts?

FF, to your point -- SD22 has a job now and moved into an apartment a few days ago. I think H is wanting to enjoy this in between lull of relative calm. I suspect he knows it will be brief. SD22 feels good about having a job, but hasn't yet slammed into the challenges of her work environment.

H is nothing if not optimistic. He is always hoping, "This is it. She's now doing great."

He said to me last night, "SD22 has not really been calling or texting me as much, I think she's handling this transition well."

I believe it's because she has found a new supply of reassurance. She has found a compassionate mom figure in her aunt (H's sister-in-law) after burning support bridges with her mom, brother, sister, and grandma. They all love her, and they are all exhausted trying to soothe her. SIL/aunt is fresh.

SD25 said to me, "SD22 is staying at my aunt's house a lot. She's going to wear out her welcome like she does with everyone else."

I really do hope for a period of relative calm for SD22. BF is expressing an interest in living with her, and SD22 has said to H, "I don't want him showing up here expecting me to support him."

She does surprise me!

Meanwhile, I will keep stirring the pot 

SD25 is moving out and we have some stuff going on with S18, plus we're thinking about moving across the country. Part of me wants to take a minute and press pause and celebrate that two of our four kids are about to be independent 

[formflier]

I think the job will be a way bigger deal than either of you imagine.

She may find other people to soothe her...that's not your business and really isn't SD25 or anyone elses.  The key is that when (if) she comes back by for over and above soothing from you guys...that you provide the appropriate about that SD22s T suggests as part of the SI plan (or whatever else you want to call the plan)

I'm not against you explicitly, directly asking hubby for the email.  I would suggest it either should have been done at the start and done consistently since then...or give him space to fill in his own blanks of how to do it.

Since you didn't ask at the start...you are kinda on path 2.  I would vaguely bring it up  another time or two, (give it a few days) and let him include you as much as he wants.  Your job is to express interest.

We obviously believe he won't divulge details...after a few examples you will have something to talk about.

With one example..you don't have a trend.

Best,

FF

[wendydarling]

To be honest, I'm not feeling super optimistic about all this. I read the parenting a child with BPD board and even when two committed parents try to get a minor child treatment, there are so many cracks for things to fall through. What is the T here going to say, really?

Well LnL you said a while back, you think your SD22 is ripe for DBT and from what you share with us I agree with you, I'm hopeful she will engage, I feel it. I do question her current T's have left her since 16, so how they respond to your H will be interesting.

If I was your H, he's sent the email, he's doing his best. Being bugged about it before I heard back would get my back up bigtime, despite loving support.

LnL what certified DBT groups does your DD have? They are the business, and will take your DD off your shoulders.  

Have any of your BPD family members taken this step?
WDx  

[formflier]

  I do question her current T's have left her since 16, so how they respond to your H will be interesting.

What does this mean?  I may be misunderstanding part of the story.

I sort of have the same thought as WDx about asking.  Part of my reason for asking vaugely...is it's not much of a "poke", especially if nothing has happened.

Even better..."Any updates on SD22?"  (let him fill in anything he cares to)

You know your hubby best?  When he gets a response from the T, how long do you expect it will take him to let you know/discuss it with you?

Best,

FF

[wendydarling]

FF, thanks for asking 

1) SD22 has not been revaluated since crisis at 16, why?
2) And that leads me to questioning if they are qualified to take her forward.

Wdx

[livednlearned]

I know H will tell me when SD22's T responds so I'm good with waiting. Thanks FF and wendydarling -- I do want to ask and I do know it will feel like picking.

I want to shape positive behaviors, right? So reward with levity and patience  

Will do.

I would feel the same way. We are working on an independence plan (for lack of a better word) for S18 so I am walking the talk with H, on the other side. Letting him into this strong mama-son bond. After a year of S18 healing from three surgeries, H is finally able to administer twice-daily dressings to S18's butt area. Talk about sensitive work, emotionally and physically! That is a whole other story making this SD22 thing a bit of a see-saw. H and I are working to step-parent better together, lots of give and take and trust.

wendydarling, I have similar feelings about the T. I know she helped stabilize SD22 and is a good influence for anxiety and divorce sadness and gender fluidity. My T about fell over in her chair when I said SD22 had not been evaluated since age 16.

I know she proposed to SD22 the prospect of being re-evaluated, as did SD22's psychiatrist. I don't know what can be done if an adult patient decides nah, not necessary?

When I wrote the items for H to share with SD22's T, my hope was that the puzzle pieces snap would snap together for the T.

When I asked H if SD22's T knew that mom was likely BPD, he also said, "Yes, I assume so. SD25's T was able to figure it out so I'm guessing SD22's can do the same."

Except SD25 is not BPD, she likely engages in therapy in a very different way.

Right now we are talking about a potential move 3000 miles away. Just talking. H said to me, "I don't want the kids to know. SD22 just got a job and is settling in and I want her to have this time to feel that things are stable."

I'm thinking, "She can't know that we're talking about a move? And you're having a hard time thinking she's BPD?"

What other psychiatric disorder would trigger a dysregulation at the thought of a parent moving, who already lives in a different state?

I know I need to respond more directly in these moments. I teeter totter because of the stuff with S18, knowing how hard it is to let people into the parent-child space when there's been a history of codependence.

Snail's pace  

[formflier]

Not trying to prioritize the responses.  Just how they are coming out.

For something like a move, especially a big one...I would suggest that you and H don't breathe a word to anyone, until things are coming together or perhaps even done.

The older two can be informed.  The 18 year old is trickier, really depends on where he expects to be living in the next few years and the impact of a move on him.


OK..SD22 T situation.  There are 2 Ts..right?

Has one T never evaluated?  Are either T qualified to do the evaluation? How long since SD22 has had an appointment with a psychiatrist?

16-22 is a long time, even if things "seem" to be going fine.  For someone that is "chronically SI"...I think I would fall out of my chair as well. 

I don't know if I would call this a "strike" against this T, but there are a couple things that really seem odd.

1.  Someone "chronically SI"...yet there is no plan being driven by the T.  It would seem T would be in the lead.

2.  No eval since 16.  Again..I could understand if "things are fine or better"..but I don't get that vibe.

Lots of question marks here.

I get it that you are trusting H around your child and he is trusting and letting you in to SD22.  That's good. 

Did I pick up a vibe of "fairness" or "keep things even"?  Hard to put my finger on..so let me know if I'm off base.

Among FF family 8 children we have an established policy that "it won't be fair"  (assume that from the start and you will be much happier).  All of the kids are so different, have different needs..etc etc.

Again..might be picking up vibes that aren't there.

Butt surgery for an 18 year old dude...that sucks. 

When my now S18 was 17 he had to get some "private" surgery done, yet he had to recuperate at home.  For some reason he didn't want Mom to know anything about it.  I let her know privately and she was cool with "giving lots of space".  It all worked out.

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

There are two Ts, yes. And one psychiatrist who prescribes meds for bipolar. Can't remember what meds they are.

Neither the current Ts nor the psychiatrist were involved when SD22 was 16. The one H emailed came onto the scene relatively soon, though. Like perhaps within a year, after the initial psychosis.

The current psychiatrist is SD22's second. First one was down here, second one was up in SD22's college town. First one did the dx. First it was psychotic depression, then later changed to bipolar. I'm fuzzy on any other details.

The second psychiatrist is the one who wants to reconsider the diagnosis. I don't know if that psychiatrist communicates with the T down here. SD22 does not talk to H about her visits or what is discussed. We only know about the move to reconsider dx because SD22's T mentioned it and added that the psychiatrist had raised the topic with SD22. It's possible SD22's learned that through SD22 herself.

Changing meds and rediagnosis is a super hot sensitive topic. SD22 runs out of the room when it is discussed. I have witnessed it. H is concerned about the long-term health complications of the meds so he periodically will mention his concerns. SD22 will have none of it.

My T has a theory. That SD22 clings to the bipolar dx because she can say, "I am not like my mom. Bipolar is not BPD."

About the fairness vibe. It isn't that we're trying for fair. It's that I notice my own feelings when I wade into his stuff  -- I can sense in him how I feel when roles are reversed. It's empathy that needs to be organized so that I can focus on SD22 in one moment and not get distracted by how I feel, and what's happening with S18.

Does that make sense?

It's both a pro and a con. One I have to be aware of.

We have no illusions about fairness with any of the kids. They are all so different, plus we're blended. H tried one time to pull rank about "you don't have multiple kids, you don't know, I can't say yes to one and no to other" but he says stuff in the heat of the moment when he's challenged emotionally to move to the center. I don't put a lot of stock in it.

There is nothing coming from H about "if we talk about SD22 then I get to talk about S18."

Not sure that nuance is coming through?

[livednlearned]

Well pfffffffft.

Hello,
Here is a reputable website with helpful information about suicide. MHA also has local groups for folks affected by mental health diagnosis and their family members. NAMI and Family Support Network of Your County are two other resources. 
https://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/suicide

A DBT group could be beneficial. I am happy to try to research where to find groups and the other provider may be familiar with what’s in the area too.
Please let me know if I can be any additional help.
Kindly,

T

H forwarded SD22 T's response to his email.

I suspect he dropped the part about evaluation and BPD.

On a positive note, SI prevention class starts in September and I registered us. 10 weeks long, 1 night (2 hours) a week. It will be a lot for H to manage because of his work schedule but I'm going regardless.

The woman on the phone raved about the program and told me it's powerful, that it will be perfect for our situation, that we will learn so much. I keep hearing that from people who know of this program. It focuses on strengths, and takes a positive approach.

SD22 seems to be doing well right now so I am hopeful that things will be manageable ... 

[wendydarling]

Nah, not good enough response if my DD was chronically suicidal. I'm thinking and feeling a tad furious.

[wendydarling]

Tad furious at the response. You've mapped this out well as SI is out in the open to some extent, with texts to SD25 and SD22 giving her permission the T contacts H to make him aware SD22 is chronically suicidal. I wonder if SD22 maybe leading you (my DD has led the way and continues to) to this route of SI being palatable for her to move forward and everyone have an honest conversation about SI (she's not ready for BPD label).

The T seems not to be onboard, though says to let them know if they can be of more help.

I'd go for it.

Good to hear SD22 is in a better place.

WDx

[GaGrl]

No mention of evaluation, no mention of BPD possibility?

So I might have left those items out of the email? Is that what you think?

I agree with your H that the Bi-Polar diagnosis is probably acceptable to her. It has become a diagnosis believed to be manageable with meds -- so "I have a condition for which I take meds, and I'm okay." As opposed to BPD, which requires a lot of work.

[wendydarling]

No mention of evaluation, no mention of BPD possibility?

And no mention of how the T is going implement a SI safety plan with SD22 and then with the family.

LnL, having been through the SI safety plan process with my DD, I'm struggling to understand the T, regardless what H wrote about SI. And yes he may not have mentioned BPD, evaluation.

More head work 

WDx

[formflier]

This is the opening to ask to see what hubby wrote.

That's the only way to put the response in context. 

"Hey H...Thanks for sharing the response.  I find it perplexing and underwhelming given what I know of the situation.  It would help me put the response in context to read the email you sent.  After I process it all we obviously have several discussions to have."

Something like that.

What do you think?

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

Also, a DBT group could be beneficial.

What the?

Could be beneficial ?

A chronically suicidal SD22 could find DBT beneficial?

DBT was created for chronic suicidality.

Gah!

I looked up T's credentials and she is part of a cooperative network of DBT-trained clinicians in our area. She co-facilitates DBT groups for adolescents.

What am I missing?

Last night I thought, Give H some space to bring things up.

Nothing.

He talked about SD22 saying she was unsure whether to allow BF to move in with her. Then 20 min later, BF has given his 2 weeks notice and will be moving in with SD22.

So there was that.

H is driving up to see SD22 to help her (with his SIL and brother) to move furniture into her new place tomorrow.

The best time to talk about this is Sunday when he's back. Ask him what he wrote to T, talk about the upcoming class, share my feedback about T.

I'm rattled by the T's response. Last night I thought, I give up. Maybe I'm over-reacting to the SI and everyone else is responding appropriately. Then I slept on it and woke up pissed.

I don't have a lot of influence here, especially now. I can only hope the class is eye-opening for H. Otherwise I am a step mom harping on H's mentally ill daughter, saying the sky is falling 

[worriedStepmom]

I wonder if part of her response is due to patient privacy.

If SD hasn't actually given her permission to talk to H, then the T is pretty limited in what she can say.  She has to speak more in generalities.  An exception would be if SD was in imminent crisis.

With SD moving, is she going to be looking for another set of mental health help?  Or will she continue traveling to see one of her current therapists?  Has anyone discussed that with her yet, and helped her make a plan for her mental health as she has the stress of moving and a new job and now apparently living with BF?

[formflier]

LNL

I completely share your desire to "punt" on this (perplexing..jaw dropping...wizard of oz).

I was fully prepared for a response that sounded something like this...and had been thinking of how to help you through this

"SD22 family.  Thanks for reaching out.  It's good to know that SD22 has a concerned family wanting to help.  As you know, I'm constrained by (insert rules and regs) and can't divulge further information without SD22s express consent.  I'll raise this issue during our next T session."  

Then there would have bee the worry about "how" it would be raised.


Switching gears.

So far this is email...keep it there.  It's good that you two are apart...because it makes it more obvious.

own your feelings about what the said...(and ours too!)

"Hey hubby...I keep going over the Ts response and I'm underwhelmed and concerned.  It would mean a lot to me to forward what you sent to the T so I can better put Ts response into context and also be more ready to discuss it when you get back.

At the moment I'm speechless...

Missing you and looking forward to massaging those "tired from furniture moving muscles" when you get home.

LnL"

If he wants to share his feelings..he will.  I'm not at all suggesting your feelings an inappropriate...I AM suggesting now is the time to be vulnerable...lay it out there that you are (do what? perplexed..etc etc) and give him a meaningful pathway for you guys to "come together" over this.

What do you think?

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

Good advice, FF. I like how you slipped in the part about massaging sore muscles. This is why diversity (guy) opinion is helpful 

 

Do you think it's best to email him? Not say it directly?

And worriedStepmom, I suspect you're right about the confidentiality piece (it is email, so that makes sense).

But then, why not pick up the phone and try to connect, to do what she did a few months ago when she divulged a surprising amount of private information about SD22?

Or say, Yah DBT is a great idea! Or something along the lines of what FF wrote.

This is the T who said (I overheard!) that SD22 is calling the suicide prevention hotline pretty regularly.

So it's not like SD22 is hoodwinking the T about struggles with SI.

I keep thinking, how can the denial be this thick, AND a T be this ineffective? Maybe I'm missing something?

I am asking myself, What do I want here?

Only vague answers.

[worriedStepmom]

It's possible the T *is* that ineffective.   They aren't all great.

I can think of a few potential scenarios:
A bad T -
If SD is having this much serious SI, the T knows, and the T hasn't been proactive about making safety plans or working on new diagnoses...then the T needs to be fired.  She may have been relying on the T in the other state to carry the heavy load.

or
SD is not that bad, she's just following the BPD model of triangulating all kinds of places to make her feel better (SD's mom loves to call the National Domestic Violence Hotline to complain about my H), so T doesn't feel it's a big deal.

or
T got in trouble for talking to H and is determined not to say anything.

[formflier]

Do you think it's best to email him? Not say it directly?

And worriedStepmom, I suspect you're right about the confidentiality piece (it is email, so that makes sense).
 

Make sure I have this right.  He got an email reply..and forwarded it to you unprompted..right?

With that in mind..I would say email him (keep the forum the same). 

The elements I wanted to put in my suggestion (coming together, you're perplexed, he can help by forwarding, you can help by massaging)..should keep it a positive email.

Plus, you aren't together so email makes sense.

That also gives him time to process and respond when he can.

Best,

FF

[Harri]

This thread has reached the post limit and continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338933.msg13070836#msg13070836

Thank you for participating.