Need some advice regarding silent treatment.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi,

Things have been bad for the past 2 months, my unBPDw of 10 years has split me black.  We live together but she's been actively looking to buy a house.  She has moved out 8-9 times in the past 10 years, but buying house this time is a huge "I'm never coming back", and the thing is she can not afford it, not even close.  Anyway, things have been civil for the past few months, however on Monday she stopped speaking to me all together.  Nothing happened, no fight, nothing.  No, Hi's passing in the hall or have a good day when leaving for work or letting each other know I'm running out be back in a little bit.  NOTHING, not one word, and we sleep in the same bed.  This morning I said to myself...self you are going to say bye to her.  I did...she didn't reply and she didn't even look at me.  The old me would have said... wtf are you even still doing here, if you want out so bad then just leave.  I said nothing.  I feel so used, not just now but for the past 10 years.

Any advise to help deal with this silent treatment?

Thanks~

[Stillhopeful4]

Hi,

Things have been bad for the past 2 months, my unBPDw of 10 years has split me black.  We live together but she's been actively looking to buy a house.  She has moved out 8-9 times in the past 10 years, but buying house this time is a huge "I'm never coming back", and the thing is she can not afford it, not even close.  Anyway, things have been civil for the past few months, however on Monday she stopped speaking to me all together.  Nothing happened, no fight, nothing.  No, Hi's passing in the hall or have a good day when leaving for work or letting each other know I'm running out be back in a little bit.  NOTHING, not one word, and we sleep in the same bed.  This morning I said to myself...self you are going to say bye to her.  I did...she didn't reply and she didn't even look at me.  The old me would have said... wtf are you even still doing here, if you want out so bad then just leave.  I said nothing.  I feel so used, not just now but for the past 10 years.

Any advise to help deal with this silent treatment?

Thanks~

[Radcliff]

Here's an interesting thread on silent treatment:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=196091.0

It'd be great to hear from other members who have experienced silent treatment.

Imagine that she is trying to communicate something to you with her silent treatment.  Do you have any thoughts as to what it might be?  pwBPD can have immense difficulty communicating their feelings and needs and sadly often use very ineffective strategies in an attempt to do so.

RC

[blackorchid]

Hi stillhopeful4 I’m really sorry that you’re going through that. I never how gut wrenching it can be when. We are put in this position. When I get the silent treatment I try a SET message but a really short one to try and initiate convo. Sometimes it takes a while to work.

What can you do in the meantime to focus on you

[Red5]

Good Morning stillhopeful4,

The silent treatment (ST) is a form of abusive control that disordered persons use when they may start to feel out of control in the relationship.

I've experienced this many times over the course of my (2nd) marriage to my own udx bpd wife.

Anywhere from a few hours, to several days, to over a month.

… very very frustrating I can certainly relate.

Usually after a fight, in which I JADE'ed… to the extreme, long before the "bpd epiphany".

What you are describing, as in there was no fight, she just went cold… that's something I've experienced as well… another 'thing' about a person with bpd, is that their feelings equal facts to them, I'm sure you may have heard this… called "emotional reasoning"… or "projective identification" (of sorts)… what ever they are feeling at that moment, is the facts of the day, may last for a while, you may or many not have said or done anything that you can identify, as the cause… but she has "got herself up a tree" so to speak… and there is no reasoning, or communicating with her when she has you split, and in the ST zone…

She could have been ruminating on past negative memories… and gotten herself emotionally worked up over that, no telling, and most times its all about their projection anyways…

Best you can do is take care of yourself, go about your day, & carry out the plan of the day… work, chores, meals, etc'… keep your chin up, & "all ahead slow, steady as she goes"… best to just 'let her be' when she is in this "mode", be nice to her, give her a smile, tell her you love her, maybe leave her a note… even when she isn't nice to you, say good morning, goodbye, have a nice day, can I get you anything… "set the example".

Remember, the bpd's biggest fear is that of abandonment… don't feed that, by returning the distance back to her in ST.

… "well fine!"… "just be like that then"  YOU TOO!

… don't do that, even though your own emotions may try to lead you that way, be mindful, and let it go.

Remember, most of the bpd'isms are all about "projection"… they feel like crap inside, so they project that onto you,

She may come out of it, after a while, and when she does, it my all "come out sideways", when she does speak to you again… there will be blame, shame, and more projections, perhaps even rages .. even rewrites of the historical record to match their projections… so be ready for that… remember to "observe, don't absorb"… engage tools… no JADE, use SET & validation… most times, what pw/bpd is feeling isn't anything to really do with you anyways… its her own inner turmoil,

… tough stuff Man : (
 
I know its confusing, frustrating, and it pretty hard to deal with, I've been there too...

Hang in there, keep posting & kind regards, Red5

[Stillhopeful4]

Thank you all for your replies.  I'm going to try and use SET tonight and see if will help break the ST

Red5...

She may come out of it, after a while, and when she does, it my all "come out sideways", when she does speak to you again … there will be blame, shame, and more projections, perhaps even rages .. even rewrites of the historical record to match their projections … so be ready for that … remember to "observe, don't absorb" … engage tools … no JADE, use SET & validation … most times, what pw/bpd is feeling isn't anything to really do with you anyways … its her own inner turmoil,

Ok can I ask some advise...if/when she does come out of it and if it does come out sideways and she blames, rewrites etc...how do I not JADE?  How do you not say that's not what happened?  This baffles me...

[Red5]

Red5...

Ok can I ask some advise...if/when she does come out of it and if it does come out sideways and she blames, rewrites etc...how do I not JADE?  How do you not say that's not what happened?  This baffles me...

One word, mindfulness…

Her inner wounded child is standing guard over her, and is running the show… win at all costs, protect through control, I've read a lot about this… bpd is trauma based (?)… ie' childhood trauma… so you are arguing with a teenager, that is guarding over a six year old, or even younger… lots going on in there !

*Caveat… every case, relationship, person is different… I am only offering my own learnings, as it pertains to my own wife, and the ex-wife before her, "operational experience".

I did a lot wrong for a long time… "if only I'd known different",

This type of speech - communicative dynamic, in which she is basically verbally attacking you, for lack of a better word, is nothing more than "bait"… projection, remember that.

Remember, when she does come out of it, there will be two modes… nice, and not nice, assuming she is not nice mode, and goes right back to a semi-rage type tone with you, she is now once again belittling you, blaming you, shaming you, placing all the fault with you, this is projection… her feelings are her version of the facts, her inner "wounded self" is not going to allow you to gain the upper hand, to win, she is not going to be reasoned with… she is still very angry, now… the four pillars of dialectical behavior therapy… are;

*mindfulness ~> (mental levity - lability)
*distress tolerance ~> (this one is crucial, don't take it personally, observe don't absorb)
*interpersonal effectiveness ~> (don't JADE)
*emotional regulation ~> (huge, keep your emotions in check)

You must practice this, when she is in your grill, this is pretty hard to do, but can be done with practice - rehearsal.

Basically, don't take the bait, obverse, don't absorb, if you absorb, you are now taking it personally, and you will very soon, in seconds, minutes… you will slip into JADE, and then onto defensive mental hand to hand combat with her… and then its off to the races… another no win argument, and then right back to her fear of abandonment, and she will shut you out again, split you, and most likely right back to ST.

As you observe, say one liners, use "I" statements…
* "I am listening, I'm right here, "I am trying to understand your emotions"…

Now use SET (support - empathy - truth)…
* "Your feelings and emotions are important to me."… "Tell me what I can do to make you feel comfortable here, I love you very much, I want you to feel good about our marriage"… "I want to feel your emotions, feelings so that we can better communicate"…

Something like that.

*dial it down.
*don't make it worse.
*choose your words carefully, think and edit before you speak.
*be mindful of you own mannerisms, facial expressions, body language.

Remember, if she is "dialed up" and quickly approaching "full bloom"… there isn't any reasoning with her, there is no explaining the facts… she isn't going to listen to anything you say, she doesn't respect your version, your opinions… you aren't going to ever win, don't even try… be passive, and just listen… "gently push it along"… she is going to "jab", take cheep shots at you verbally, just don't take the bait.

You must understand, one of the biggest tenants of the bpd mindset is "victimization"… "I am the victim here, you are the persecutor"… "your just like everyone else, your out to get me, to hurt me, to destroy me"… that's what you may be dealing with, when the "side-ways" projections are coming out.

"I hate you don't leave me"… meanwhile they are pushing you away ?

Offer her instead...

* "I respect your point of view, that's good for me to know now, I am beginning to understand how you are feeling now, thank you for explaining that to me."

Remember, 98.99% of her bravo sierra is projection… fact is, borderlines (spectrum?) will often, and unapologetically verbally abuse their closet partners, in your world, and mine, its our wives whom use us as an emotional teething ring…

I use this tool, when the going gets tough, and I'm caught short, and she is in my grill… the three "D's",
*disengage - don't JADE, don't try to fight it out, STOP!
*detach - stop contributing to her private argument, cut off the gas, the oxygen, maybe even leave the sector, "I'm going for a walk, I need some space, my head is spinning (be honest), I'll be back in 20 minutes."
*defend - engage mindfulness, introspection, mental inventory, "I love her, she is my wife, but she is not being reasonable right now, don't threaten her out of anger and hurt, ensure she knows that I'm right here, but don't fight anymore, this will blow over, remember the tools, SET, validate… don't take it personally."

Another "tool"… SLED
*S - STOP (just stop fighting, talking, speaking, she isn't listening anyways)
*L- Listen (mindfulness)
*E- Engage (tools)
*D- Defend (protect the marriage- relationship, don't go nuclear, tools tools tools, or detach before you lose it)

Whew!... thoughts?

Red5

[Enabler]

It's sad to say that I have started to find it comical. I now chuckle to myself. I have pretty much been given the silent treatment and "intimately excluded/punished" since Jan 2017. But... as they say, you either laugh or you cry and I've cried a river of tears.

So... my advice is to continue to keep your head high and say hello, continue to tell her you're going out and share pleasantries... but... Do not expect a response. Do not get too excited when she does respond as this could well be fleeting because she wants something. DO NOT attempt to engage in anything more than pleasantries, it will just be seen by her as an opportunity to punish you further.

I see 2 or 3 motivations for ST.

1) Punishment - it takes effort to ignore people, it really does. It's not natural to just pretend to be utterly indifferent to someone especially when you share a bed with them, so it takes effort to sustain this... which is pretty darn sad if you ask me. It also poisons her from the inside, not only because she has to be utterly focused on your reactions to observe the pain she's inflicting, but also because it requires a certain amount of venom and hate.  

2) Rumination - she could well be thinking about 'stuff'... aka 'herself' so much that she just hasn't got the mental capacity to interact with you. It's almost like pwBPD become so self absorbed that they go inside themselves in a metaphorical cave. Maybe she is mulling through feelings, maybe mulling through housing plans, maybe she is mulling through how she is a victim of you and you have done her soo wrong. Incidentally... maybe she is mulling through how she can't afford to buy her own place and she's actually worked this out or been told herself (you take for granted your executive thinking ability which enables you to realise pretty quickly that if you have no money you can't buy a house... she maybe doesn't have these adult skills)... this would breed a lot of hate.

3) Numbing out - pwBPD sometimes numb out once they have sustained emotional intensity for such a long period they literally shut down communications and emotional responses to stuff... it's almost like having an emotional cardiac arrest from sprinting for 5 miles straight. This can be very weird in my experience, almost robotic and soulless, like no one is home. They have no fire, no passion and no enthusiasm even to fight.

What is she like at the moment? Angry, in herself or numb?

I prefer keeping to my values of kindness and politeness which means I continue with pleasantries, ask for nothing deeper so always keep things light... fish occasionally to see if she's thawed, if you get a push back then take your rod out quickly and continue about your business. It's abuse, don't forget that for a minute... but then again so is moving out 9x in 10years, rise above.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Whew! ... thoughts?

Red5

Red,

This is great, you have given me a lot of tools!  I am going to read this over and over and PRACTICE!   Thank you so much!

[Stillhopeful4]

What is she like at the moment? Angry, in herself or numb?


Enabler

Thank you Enabler!

At the moment she's a little bit over everything.  One minute she can seem OK and within seconds for no reason she is RAGING and full of anger and then 10 minutes later she's crying...ugly crying.  She says things like "All I want is for this anxiety to go away and stop".  There are nights she comes home from work and doesn't engage with anyone and just sits in the bedroom.  You look at her and she looks empty.  However, if she's with friends in a social setting she's like a dog in heat.  Just to sit back and watch her getting attention from everyone with their hands all over her is very sad.

[Red5]

I am going to read this over and over and PRACTICE!   Thank you so much!

Go here next if not first, ~> https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

And start learning the tools.

It takes a long time to learn them, apply them, master them…

Most important, stop making it worse ~> https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

Good Luck ! 

Red5

[Stillhopeful4]

Good Luck ! 

Red5

Red,

I will!  Thank you so much.  This is so helpful!

[ColdKnight]

When I first came to this site I was super frustrated because everyone one I talked to, Including count, them 3 different T’s and dozens of friends said the same thing: she’s toxic, get away from her. She will only bring you down.

I refused to buy into that. You wouldn’t abandon someone who was blind would you. Why would you abandon a pwBPD. Someone has to love them and that someone is me. I am going to learn all I can and I am going to be that person who is going to “never abandon” them.

I am starting to realize now that I just cannot do it. Why should I
(we) have to put up with this? What makes this person worth the heart ache and anxiety? I don’t have a good answer anymore.

I understand the need for space. I am willing to give you space. just ****ing tell me you need space! I will give you all the space you need and wait for you to reach out when you are ready. BUT if you do that you are not meeting their needs because their need for space is really a cry for help and they need reassurance that you are not going to abandon them. So you reach out and they either continue to ignore you or they threaten you because you wont leave them alone.

What makes these people so special that we should tip toe around them, always worried whether we are going to upset them. Space never worked, boundaries never worked, unconditional love never worked. After all that she “met someone who is not embarrassed of me”

The sex was just ok, nothing earth shaking, and the conversation was ok and the company was fair but far between. Why on earth did I put up with so much?

I’m sorry, I tried, I really did. I could have worked with a lot. I just can’t work with the inability/refusal to communicate manifested in the silent treatment...

May a better man come along who can because I cant...

[Red5]

Enabler writes...it takes effort to sustain this... which is pretty darn sad if you ask me. It also poisons her from the inside, not only because she has to be utterly focused on your reactions to observe the pain she's inflicting, but also because it requires a certain amount of venom and hate.   

This is insight, don’t be fooled, this is what it’s like to be on the borderline spectrum... this is who they are inside, behind all their armor... deep inside their personality... the inner room of their being... there is a very angry little kid in there, who is suspicious and wary of everybody on the outside of their safe room...

Enabler is right, it takes vast amounts of spiritual energy to keep up their continuous guard over their inner wounded self.

Lots of hurt in there, and we as their partners are the closest to them... but we probably will never ever be allowed into that armored safe room of their inner true self, so what do we do?, there is no fixing this, even with the DBT of which we hear so much about, all this will do, even if semi successful... will be that our borderline will learn perhaps, to “manage” their borderline behaviors... and if they don’t... and we choose to stay, then we are the ones whom will manage their borderline behaviors for them... via “radical assceptance”.

That is a life sentence... but Love is the most powerful force in the universe “they” say.

Red5

[2020]

... so what do we do?, there is no fixing this, even with the DBT of which we hear so much about

That is a very sobering thought. I am seriously wondering what the point of this all is. The madness of it all is, if these loved ones were ill with some other condition, we would nurse them back to health. It may be a long tunnel, but surely there would be light at the end? Or perhaps there would be gratitude? For us there is NOTHING, which gets me thinking, who are the 'disordered' ones in all of this? 

[Red5]

...if these loved ones were ill with some other condition, we would nurse them back to health. It may be a long tunnel, but surely there would be light at the end?

I hear many times... “they are sick, they have an illness... you wouldn’t leave somebody who has cancer would you?”.

I will offer the term “palliative care”,  basically we as the “non” provide care to the person whom is disordered, we know there is no “cure”, so we do the best we can under the circumstances.

Like a person whom has stage iv cancer... incurable, a death sentence... so we care for them while they continue treatment to prolong their life, and we stand by them and keep them balanced as best we can while the treatment side effects wreck havoc with our loved one...  but we know, in the end that we will lose them anyway.

It’s very sad... in the case of these marriages to persons whom we have ‘self diagnosed’ perhaps... or either officially been diagnosed... there are two ways out... divorce of death... that’s the BLUF.

In the case of a relationship not bound by state law or the Church... there are other avenues to an “end”.

Those of us who stay... that’s Pandora’s box to be sure.

My wife is my second marriage... the first failed spectacularly... my wife and I are separated now, this will be nine months coming up, and she has stage four cancer... and I “think”, through my endless readings and study... that I married a woman whom is a high functioning borderline ( hermit queen variety), whom has very strong covert narsisisitc traits... and it’s generational.

Many of us have spent years, decades even in these relationships...’some’ spanning two or more marriages... and even more relationships... how long did it take for us to become aware... and start the long haul along the endless path of knowledge and seeking understanding of the subject... seeking answers as to “why”...

I’m fifty-three now, I guess by the time I “get it right”, I’ll be ninety something...

Hang in there  Stillhopeful4,

Red5

[Stillhopeful4]

Hang in there  Stillhopeful4,

Red5

Thanks Red ~  I'm trying.  It's very very hard.  She's done some really out of wack things lately.  The weekends are the toughest, she cries for hours on end and blames me.  She won't even consider the fact it could be BPD or anything else, she says I have caused all this hurt and pain and trauma.  When I ask by doing what I get different iterations of "you should know".

Thanks again!

[Red5]

… & when I ask by doing… what I get different iterations of "you should know".

And on top of everything else… we are supposed to be "mind readers"!

How many times have I heard, "if you really loved me, you would KNOW ____.

*favorite food
*favorite chocolate candy
*favorite movie
*favorite restaurant
*favorite negligee
*favorite jewelry item
*favorite _____

… yeah, I think I'm a spiritual person and all, maybe even "clairvoyant" at times   … but a "Rasputin mind reader" NO I'm certainly not   !



Red5

[Stillhopeful4]

… yeah, … I think I'm a spiritual person and all, maybe even "clairvoyant" at times    … but a "Rasputin mind reader" NO I'm certainly not  !


Red5

Yes this, I feel like I need to read her mind all the time.  Because when I ask certain questions, when she's in this split, I usually get, "you should know", "you hurt my feelings by just asking" "If I mattered at all to you ...you would know".

It was a very rough weekend.  She's been looking for a place to move out to for 2 months, but she has stayed.  But I know she is very active in finding a place and wants to leave asap.  I love her, it's so hard.

[Enabler]

Do you know "she is very active in finding a place and wants to leave asap" or do you know that she wants you to think she is active in finding a place and wants to leave ASAP? There is a difference.

It's phenomenal how quickly you can do things if you actually want to do things, just as it's phenomenal how slowly you can do things but look like you're trying hard if you don't. There's plenty of examples of people on the boards here who have acted quickly (and maybe too quickly) out of genuine desperation and need to act through fear. I'm not suggesting you don't take her seriously, but I've certainly learnt to judge my W's intent through her actions rather than her words. Don't make it a breeding ground for contempt, but if she has the wings and no natural rocks on the runway... ask yourself why she's not taking off... then observe.

Similar to silent treatment, leaving and divorce threats are another powerful weapon, especially if she receives an overt emotional reaction from you.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Do you know "she is very active in finding a place and wants to leave asap" or do you know that she wants you to think she is active in finding a place and wants to leave ASAP? There is a difference.
Enabler

I never thought of it like that.  But yes, I do know she is very active in finding a place.  She also told me last night she needs to leave asap because her feeling this miserable is now starting to spill into her other relationships with her friends and co-workers and she feels if she gets out of our house that all of this rage and anger will go away.  She wants me to stop "trying" and telling her that I love her because it's making it harder on her and more angry because "it's all she ever wanted".  But that's where I'm confused, I've always told her I love her, left her little notes, done nice things for her.

[Enabler]

She also told me last night

What action have you seen with your own eyes. What are the rocks on the runway that are stopping her achieving this? Is she hoping by telling you all this that you will assist and rescue her from her slow progress on finding somewhere? This is great blame-shifting... you're now responsible for all her failing social relationships...

[Red5]

Enabler wrote..."I've certainly learnt to judge my W's intent through her actions rather than her words."

This is very wise advise,
*you will know a tree by its fruits - actions speak louder than words - its not what they say they are going to do, but what they actually do that is the true indicator*

Stillhopeful4 wrote..."She also told me last night she needs to leave asap because her feeling this miserable is now starting to spill into her other relationships with her friends and co-workers and she feels if she gets out of our house that all of this rage and anger will go away."

I doubt that… she (pw/bpd et all') are whom they are, they carry it with them always… how many times have we read about "supply"… and "constant turmoil"… the need for created drama and chaos…

Nope, I'd bet this Fridays paycheck, that if she does exit your pattern, she will only recreate drama and chaos (mayhem) in the next pattern she enters,

My wife is the same way… she has been living on her own from me for almost nine months now, and we do talk now and again… and what's the subject of the conversations… there are basically two subjects; #1.) is how I was to blame, and how I am this and that… and its me that was the problem, and that I haven't changed any not one iota… #2.) she will tell me all about how this person or that person both public, and 'Foo' has made her mad, has tried to cheat her, rip her off, or did not follow through with what ever… name the subject, 'Foo' sisters, mother… her two adult children, the mail man, the guy at the tire store, the man whom delivered her patio furniture… the lady at the cable office, the poor unknown person at customer service at _____, the new neighbors… the duty manager at Lowes home improvement store… on and on and on… BUT I'm the problem… ok' ?

Meanwhile, at the Red5 aerodrome, things are calm, quiet and peaceful, "no worries mate"… "steady as she goes"… "seamless, smooth operational posture is the daily routine"…

Take this for what it s worth Stillhopeful4, and I'll add… and this is the K-crazy part  

… I miss Mrs. Red5, I surely do… and I hope she comes back home one day… yeah… I should be locked away!

Today, she calls me up, at about zero seven thirty something, before I leave to go to work… and she says

… "I was on my way to New Bern, and I saw a sign, on my street, .. akc German Shepard puppies… you should check that out on your way to work"… and then she told me about her daughter, adopting stray cat #5 down in Alabama  

I told her "thank you for thinking of me and S32 autitic", and that we do miss out two old seniors (K9's) whom both passed away this last year, and I've been looking…  "thanks again, I love you"… she just said your welcome, and bye, no "I love you back : (

And so I continue to wait (for her), & for what ends to come(?)… I'm not quit quite sure (freudian slip?)… but wow, a puppy  

We'll see  

Hang in there Stillhopeful4!

Red5

[Stillhopeful4]

What action have you seen with your own eyes. What are the rocks on the runway that are stopping her achieving this?

I have seen her go to multiple places to rent/buy.  She even hired someone to help her.  I think she is trying to get her credit in order.  But she is definitely leaving.  She claims she can't take it anymore and the pain from being there is only getting worse.

[Stillhopeful4]

I doubt that … she (pw/bpd et all') are whom they are, … they carry it with them always … how many times have we read about "supply" … and "constant turmoil" … the need for created drama and chaos …

Hi Red,

I know this.  I know she will still be miserable when she leaves.  It has happened MANY times before.  She admits it, that she's lonely alone and wants her family back.  But this time something is different, she is totally out of sorts.  One day she cried for 5 hours, she's a complete mess.  I just want to take all of her pain away.  I've told her that, I have told her to left stuff go, she's asks "HOW?".  I tell her she needs to figure that out.  I have forgiven her for multiple affairs and she can't forgive me because I said something in one sentence that hurt her feelings?  I don't understand that.  I'm trying I really am and I will wait for her even if she leaves too or when she leaves I should say because I am positive it's coming soon.

PS good luck with your puppy hunt!

SH4

[Red5]

I know she will still be miserable when she leaves.

 
My middle S29, and as well her D34(step) have both told me, "she is very lonely since she moved out"… 

It has happened MANY times before. 

I remember all the fights we had, before bpd epiphany, she would say, "I'm DONE, I'm moving out!"… and she would start staging/packing up her things… this would last for about a day, until I went into grovel mode, and begged her to stay… each time this happened her behaviors got worse and worse.

She admits it, that she's lonely alone and wants her family back. 

My wife once attacked her D34's (2nd) husband on social media… a MIL-Mommy issue, and this resulted in D34 (she is step) going no contact (NC) on her mother, my ubpdw… for three years… it was only my wife's cancer dx, and her D34 brother (S31) efforts to get to D34 to cease the NC… that was about three years ago, my wife never admitted fault, but actually still to this day blames her own D34 for that peace of history… yeah… D34, has since remarried again (H#3)… and then, my wife… back in the spring of 2017, then had an altercation with her S31's fiancée a few months before they got married, ubpdw actually made the poor girl burst into tears, all over the wedding venue… yeah … I predicted she would do this… this is her "pattern"… and its very predictable.

But this time something is different, she is totally out of sorts. 

I too noted the "this time" phenomena… I do think there is a "rock bottom"… a time when its just to much, its built all up, overflowing (anger pool)… however, it may not be about you at all, it may be her own past, her childhood demons… do you know of this history with her… suspected / known, is this perhaps a viable explanation for her borderline?… my first wife seemed to just self destruct at the end, after twenty years… she just walked away… completely lost it… she basically abandoned us all, the kids and me…

One day she cried for 5 hours, she's a complete mess. 

There will be very bad days, as the time, the years pass… as I noted, it seemed to get much worse over time.

I just want to take all of her pain away. 

As do we all... but alas we can't, no matter how bad we want to, we cannot save them… that is their journey, we cannot book passage with them… this is the most heart breaking element of this…

I've told her that, I have told her to left stuff go, she's asks "HOW?".  I tell her she needs to figure that out. 

My first wife knew she had problems, but was too afraid, or triggered to confront them… and it took her away in the end… she is a lost soul to this very day, thirteen years downrange… my S29 was over to the house just last night, and I ask him if he'd heard from his mother, he told me "not in two years dad… and I don't really want to"… this is heart wrenching : (

My current wife, I spoke to her D34 the other week, after she had come to visit her mom for a weekend to help her lay new flooring in her new home… and she told me, "Red, the only way mom will ever come back home again to you, is if you take all the blame for what happened, accept all the fault, and beg and grovel… and I don't see how you can do that Red"… she continued, "mom ran dad off in 2004, she was viscous, after he retired from the Army, he couldn't take it anymore, so he left her"… he died in 2016 of lung cancer, the same year my wife got her own cancer dx… wow : (

I'm trying I really am and I will wait for her even if she leaves too or when she leaves I should say because I am positive it's coming soon.

I know how you feel, this is tough stuff to take, to deal with… and it its always there, it occupies every hour of the day… my reasonable mind is always in direct confrontation with my emotional mind, and my heart of hearts… I know what is best for me and my S32autititc, but yet my heart still says "there's a way"… I don't know how much time my wife has left, as she is stage iv rcc, she was dx in 2016… I too always felt, that one day my current wife would eventually leave (gut feeling), but it didn't expect her to go after my S32 autistic, and be physically abusive… yeah, the mind and the heart are always fighting, while the "gut instinct" sits on the sidelines, and says, "told you so!"…

Hang in there SH4, Red5

[I Am Redeemed]

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