It was a rough weekend but I managed.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Mod note: This thread is a continuation of a previous discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339245.0

Hi guys,

It was a rough weekend but I managed.  She called me on her way home Friday night and we talked for 10 minutes, mostly about the dog, but I did ask how her event went and she talked about it a little.  It was the first time we've talked on the phone in awhile.  Friday night our dog stayed with me and I brought him back to her on Saturday.  It was very hard seeing her for 45 seconds.  No emotions on her face.  I cried when I drove away.  I spent the rest of the day doing some shopping and cleaning and then I watched a movie.  Yesterday I spent the whole day cooking and watching football and then I reorganized all my clothes. I didn't mind being alone, but I did really miss being with her.

We did text a few times on Saturday and Sunday, but she kept it very much to the dog, kids and common bills.  I would throw in a few little...hopeful things...like she was telling me about her new cable thing and she doesn't have the Hallmark channel...and I said something along the lines of I guess I won't switch providers so I can entice you over for dinner and Hallmark movies, she ignored that...then I said something about my dinner not being as good as she makes...no comment from her.

This is just so hard waiting...for her to decide what she wants...and I'm very fearful it's not going to be me.

Thanks for all of your support guys ((Hugs)

SH4

[Stillhopeful4]

Mod note: This thread is a continuation of a previous discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339245.0

Hi guys,

It was a rough weekend but I managed.  She called me on her way home Friday night and we talked for 10 minutes, mostly about the dog, but I did ask how her event went and she talked about it a little.  It was the first time we've talked on the phone in awhile.  Friday night our dog stayed with me and I brought him back to her on Saturday.  It was very hard seeing her for 45 seconds.  No emotions on her face.  I cried when I drove away.  I spent the rest of the day doing some shopping and cleaning and then I watched a movie.  Yesterday I spent the whole day cooking and watching football and then I reorganized all my clothes. I didn't mind being alone, but I did really miss being with her.

We did text a few times on Saturday and Sunday, but she kept it very much to the dog, kids and common bills.  I would throw in a few little...hopeful things...like she was telling me about her new cable thing and she doesn't have the Hallmark channel...and I said something along the lines of I guess I won't switch providers so I can entice you over for dinner and Hallmark movies, she ignored that...then I said something about my dinner not being as good as she makes...no comment from her.

This is just so hard waiting...for her to decide what she wants...and I'm very fearful it's not going to be me.

Thanks for all of your support guys ((Hugs)

SH4

[gadget]

Hi SH4!

Hugs back.  I'm glad you made it through the weekend.  Mine was similar with my wife.  I only saw her for a few minutes on Saturday.  She watched my son so I could go to my Karate test.  When I got home she asked how it went and told me to get some rest.  I was exhausted and it showed.  I spent the whole rest of Saturday doing College homework and a little World of Warcraft

Sunday I only saw her for 1 hour as it was my special needs sons birthday.  She came over to help with his bath and see him for a few then was gone.  All non us talk was fine and cordial.  I really hate the waiting too.  Later on Sunday I got to go to the movies with my youngest son to see IT part 2.  That was a good time.

Hang in there.  We are all going through this too.  It gets easier, but never goes away.  I want my wife back too.  Or at least to not be in the dark and know what her intent is.  If we are to be done.  So be it, as much as that would hurt.  But I miss having a companion and I don't want to wait in the dark for years for her to decide what she is doing.  If she doesn't want to be with me, let me know so I don't waste any further time trying.  I will find a new friend/companion to fill that void.

Gadget

[Enabler]

Hey SH4,

Sounds like you came through it unscathed. Well done. Good work for doing some housework, I don't know about you but organising and tidying is one of my go-to things when I am cogitating thoughts. It's not energetic which means you can think clearly but you're doing something so feels like you can sap some of the excess anxiety energy off doing something positive and progressive.

It's good that you two are communicating on a surface level. I would keep it very surface level and let her guide the emotional push pull. So, for example, less attempts to pull her using compliments, she's pushing you away at the moment and she likely doesn't want that... she may see you pulling as an attempt to control and therefore may feel inclined to push more in response. Other board members talk about slight push when they push and big pull when they pull, net net you get closer. Your message at the moment should be that you're a loving and caring person (not necessarily towards her), you're getting through and working on thriving with or without her and you don't desperately need her. Nothing aggressive, nothing bitter and twisted, just "I'm doing my thing over here, my life continues and you're the one missing out."

How do you feel about the weekends experience?

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Gadget,

I understand, it's so hard not knowing where they stand.  At least she came by for your test.  WoW, well now you just brought me back to about 20 years ago painting figures...LOL!


Enabler,

Yes we are communicating on the surface.  Cleaning and organizing and doing laundry helped me get through it.  How do I feel about this weekends experience...well it was difficult...but I did get through it with only a few bouts of tears.  I missed her a lot especially because it was 1st football Sunday.  So here's a question, if I am not to push and be like here I am living the dream..(well not but you know what I mean) her supposed issue is she doesn't believe I love her and want to be with her.  Wouldn't me just doing my thing validate her feelings that I don't love her when I actually really so but she's doesn't want to hear it?  Thoughts?


She did text me this morning about my son's soccer games this week.  She said she will be going to all of them.  I said I wanted to ask her something up front (a little history when we have been separated in the past and he had games it was always awkward because sometimes she would sit with me and other times not.)  So I said I didn't want it to be awkward today at the field and usually I get there before her and she can sit where she wants, and today she would be getting there before me and did she want me to sit with her or not, because it would be awkward if I sat with her and she got up and walked away.  She said we are both adult and she thinks we should be able to sit with each other at his games even though this is still awkward and hurts. (I'm not sure what to make of this...thoughts?)  What do you guys think I should do, right now my plan is to show up and sit with her, say hi, watch the game and probably not say much of anything outside of game references.

Any advise is much appreciated.

Thank you,
SH4

[Enabler]

Her feeling that you don't love her is not valid. You know that. She may or may not know that. Frankly she may even have a completely different concept of what love is. If I had to say, her definition of Love is that you don't do what she wants, the things you do (reasonable or not) make her feel bad (maybe about herself) and that's not what Loving people do... So, this all considered, and taking into consideration that for all the efforts you have made in the past to tell her, and even show her you love her and she still doesn't see it... that feeling is likely uncorrelated to what you do and say... so, you are slightly differentiating yourself from her. You're saying in effect, I don't have your feelings because they are your feelings. I don't share your inner turmoil because that is your inner turmoil. Going back to what I said in previous posts about nurturing a zone where your marriage and love can exist, also means that you need to show her that you're capable of being happy in yourself regardless of your wife's behaviours. In an ideal world (which might be impossible) she needs to be able to generate her own inner happiness with which to come back to the zone where a marriage can exist, to participate in the relationship. That zone might mean (for you) that you can no longer emotionally prop her up and she needs to support herself and make efforts to regulate her own feelings and have some consistency as to how she feels about you.

I don't advocate you make out that you're living the dream, just maybe that you're not falling apart.

You are showing her that you are concerned about not having conflict and how to progress through a tricky situation by asking her practical questions about how the new relationship is going to work. I would guess that she would like you to sit next to her or near her at the football. Maybe in future I'd push the ball into her court by saying "To save any awkwardness I'm going to sit on my own regardless of whether or not you are there first, if you want to join me I have no problem with that." Then she chooses to be with you or not rather than you having to guess whether she is in the mood or not.

Enabler

[gadget]

I agree with Enabler on the below statement.  It is what I have been doing too.

I don't advocate you make out that you're living the dream, just maybe that you're not falling apart.

My wife asks me questions about how I'm doing with my money and other things.  I don't want her to think I'm fantastic.  And if I say I'm "ok", that isn't enough of an answer and she will ask more questions.  Usually I say "I'm managing".

Gadget

[Enabler]

"It's a challenge, I'm being very structured about it, planning and budgeting, stretching every cent"

... coz I can do that, because I'm an adult.

[blackorchid]

So much insight here in the few days that I haven't logged on.

SH4 I'm glad that you managed to keep yourself busy over the weekend and get things done.

There's so many similarities in what everyone has posted with my partner too, especially about the lack of self esteem and how we make them feel...

Journalling always helps me as well SH4, I hope one day she will read yours

[gadget]

Enabler - You go with your adult self! 

Blackorchid - I'm trying more and more to journal.  I'm using a Daily Planner called the Panda Planner.  It is full of positive things and happiness psychology and stuff.

Gadget

[Enabler]

I guess what I’m suggesting is be pretty neutral about things from an emotional perspective. She doesn’t need to know that it’s awesome or awful, she just needs to know how you’re approaching the problem from a rational perspective and that you’re being very controlled about things. It’s alllllll a little dull, neutral and unchaotic. She might impute shame from your ability to be dull, controlled and unchaotic and that kinda okay, it’s okay for her own chaos to be visible and your lack of chaos to be visible to her. Make no apologies for having your sh!t together.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

I guess what I’m suggesting is be pretty neutral about things from an emotional perspective. She doesn’t need to know that it’s awesome or awful, she just needs to know how you’re approaching the problem from a rational perspective and that you’re being very controlled about things. It’s alllllll a little dull, neutral and unchaotic. She might impute shame from your ability to be dull, controlled and unchaotic and that kinda okay, it’s okay for her own chaos to be visible and your lack of chaos to be visible to her. Make no apologies for having your sh!t together.

Enabler

Well this is a hard reality.  I'm not sure I'm ready to face this.

[Stillhopeful4]

Her feeling that you don't love her is not valid.
Enabler

But to her it is valid.  Ughhhhh I did it... I just did the unthinkable...I haven't texted or said anything to her in over 10 days since she left and I just spewed my guts about how much I love her and how much I miss her and I'll do anything to prove to her how much I want to be with her.  Why, why ...why did I just do that... over text...to which I got no reply...ughhhh.. well I guess I suck.  So much for all that hard work I thought I was doing.  She's probably more angry with me now.

[Enabler]

Mehhhhh, you’ll live to fight another day. Pick yourself up and move on. Football tonight (assume proper football not Rugby with pads!), get yourself together for that and don’t expect the text to be raised.

[Stillhopeful4]

Football tonight (assume proper football not Rugby with pads!), get yourself together for that and don’t expect the text to be raised.

Yes, "proper football"...in the states known as soccer. 

Not sure I'm going to get my head around seeing her today.  I look a wreck and am going there straight from work.  I'll have to plan better for Wednesday.  Not that she will be paying attention to me, after my texts I'll probably sit with her and she will get up and leave and then say something along the lines of you should have got the hint that I was angry when I didn't reply to your texts, how dare you sit near me.  Ughhhhhh.

[Red5]

As do I... (wear wedding ring)

I still wear my ring too… its been nine months now… I also still wear the cancer bracelets, orange leather and 550 cord for rcc awareness : (

I see her wear hers too, still, although it was Aug 3 the last time I saw her for longer than a few minutes.

Check this out… I basically got texted to say… "stop texting me"… "live your life, I'll live mine" she said… so I stopped, until Dorian came through here… I texted her, "U-ok?"… no response…

Then Friday she calls me, I missed it as I was running with the chainsaw militia… she simply said in a vm, "just calling to see that you and S32 autistic are alright, no need to return the call, um' bye"…

Then… yesterday after Church, she calls me again… I answered this time, and she wanted to know if I was going to be home, so she could drop S32 autistic birthday present by, he turns 33 on Saturday… I said "sure".

So me and the puppy are out in the front yard, I'm dragging limbs to the burn pile… she pulls up in her jeep, she is wearing a nice dress, she looks so pretty… I was too "up a tree" to notice if she was wearing her wedding bands… she hands me a beautifully wrapped present with a birthday card on it… I say "thank you, this is my new puppy, his name is "Max"…

She says "he is quite cute"… then she hands me something, and says she found it in her jeep?… its a garage door opener, I had forgotten about?… I said "thank you" again… she went to climb back in her jeep… I said "hold on, you ain't getting out of here without giving me a hug"… she said NO!, "you are all sweaty"… then I said… "well how about a peck on the cheek then please"… and I point at my cheek…

… she says "no, your good"… and climbed in and drove away…

I felt slighted, and sad, I just stood there in the driveway… but why would she go to this trouble of driving all the way down here to bring S32 autistic his birthday present?… what gives, after the "live your life" comment?

So there I stood, I reached into my pocket, and retrieved the g-door opener… and I wondered, does it still work?… and why has she kept it for nine months… as her jeep was programed for the g-door back in 2017 when I purchased the jeep brand new for her… I pushed the button… and low and behold, the g-door started to open… shazzam!

hmmm…

I'm sitting here at work typing this… and I'm wearing my ring… because that's what I believe in…

...hang in there SH4,

Red5

[gadget]

Makes me want to put my ring back on.  Not that it would help.

Gadget

[Red5]

Makes me want to put my ring back on.  Not that it would help.

YOU do what makes YOU feel good gadget!

If you want to wear your ring, then you put that ring back on your finger… that's what I did, I figure I'm still married, until I ain't no more…

And I care that she see's me wearing it too, yeah, old "hard knox" Red5 said that : )

Red5

[gadget]

ooh!  I like it.  And I will.  It is ALL about me now, because nothing I say or do really matters to her!

Thanks Rebel Red5

Can't wait to get home from work and put it back on

Gadget

[Stillhopeful4]

I'm sitting here at work typing this … and I'm wearing my ring … because that's what I believe in ….
...hang in there SH4,
Red5

Red,

That is quiet the story.  It was nice of her to drop the present off for your son, but I get it about live your life and then for her to show up looking pretty on top of it...things that make you go hmmmmmm.  (Happy early birthday to your son).  That stinks that she wouldn't give you a hug or a kiss.  9 months...that's so long.

Yes, I'm not taking mine off because that's what I believe in.  It really hurts that she doesn't believe it too.  Before she left last week, she said marriage is nothing but a piece of paper.  That broke my heart that she feels that way.

Thinking of you!

SH4

[Enabler]

My ring is part of my ROAR. It’s part of preserving the marital zone until such time that she decides we’re well and truly divorced.

[Stillhopeful4]

And I care that she see's me wearing it too, yeah, old "hard knox" Red5 said that : )

I feel the same.  I want her to know I'm wearing mine and make sure it's discreetly visible if I send her a snapchat of the dogs or something.

[Stillhopeful4]

Can't wait to get home from work and put it back on

Gadget this is great!  Excited for you!

[Stillhopeful4]

My ring is part of my ROAR. It’s part of preserving the marital zone until such time that she decides we’re well and truly divorced.

Enabler,

I love this.  Does ROAR stand for something specifically?

PS... One hour I'm a ball of nerves!

[Enabler]

No, it’s the noise a lion makes 

How did it go at Football?

[blackorchid]

Enabler - You go with your adult self! 

Blackorchid - I'm trying more and more to journal.  I'm using a Daily Planner called the Panda Planner.  It is full of positive things and happiness psychology and stuff.

Gadget

Thanks gadget. I’ll look into it I can find that one

[Stillhopeful4]

How did it go at Football?

Good morning,

It went ok and not ok.  She never responded to my texts yesterday and she didn't mention them at the game.  She showed up after I was there and she sat with me.  Just some general chit chat during the game.  Then she asked about my DS19.  Long story short, he went away to his first year of college last year, he's a very smart kid, top 10 in his graduating class, and he partied too much and got suspended.  He worked this summer, but now he's trying to figure out what he's going to do.  He knows he needs to enroll in class at a local community college (too late for this semester) or get a job.  His father lives about 45 minutes from us and is not a good influence and they just sit around smoking weed when he's there.  So she asked me what his plan is.  I said I'm trying to let him figure it out right now and not pressure him into a decision.  She's like "this just "confirms" why I needed to leave and shows I will never have any say when it comes to the boys."  So I asked her what she would do.  She said she would take away the car and his phone.  I explained that would just push him to his fathers and I don't think that's a good idea.  She went on about...this just confirms I made the right choice in leaving.  I didn't say anything and just watched the game.  After a few minutes we went back to idle chit chat.  But the whole time she was there she was stone faced...she never smiled once...and just looked sad (very cute) but sad.  I'm sure the fact that I'm not doing what she wants with DS19 is just causing her to get angry at me again or stay angry with me.

She was saying our dog is having stomach issues, she changed his food.  I said I was running back out later and I would drop some of his old food off.  I did along with some food I had made on Sunday for her and her mail and a few other food treats.  I dropped it off about an hour after the game.  I didn't go in, my younger son did for 1 minute.  She didn't even text me to say thank you.

I haven't heard from her since the game.  She usually sends me a picture of the dog at night, but nothing last night.

There is another game tomorrow, she originally said earlier in the day (before I sent all the texts) that she would be there.  So maybe I will see her again tomorrow, or maybe not.  Not sure what to think or feel.

SH4

[Enabler]

Okay, so... could have been better and could have been worse.

There's a couple of interesting snippets in there though that stood out to me.

Firstly, she sat next to you, that's a good thing. Not really surprising that she didn't want to talk about that txts, and that's okay in a way. You knew it wasn't your finest moment straight afterwards so kind of cool that it's just floated by.

Controversial/Emotive conversations should be avoided at the moment. I'm not sure how you might have avoided it given she bought up the subject, but maybe it would be good to try and spot conversations that are likely to result in differing opinions. I might have been inclined to have dropped the conversation completely either after she told you what she might have done to S19 or even after she made the big comment about this being the reason why the split was a good thing. Your comment afterwards invalidated her last comment... "I explained that would just push him to his fathers and I don't think that's a good idea." ... her take is likely to be something like "NO, you are wrong, your whole being is wrong, you're stupid, you've no business telling me what to do with my Son and you're out the family now, what a rubbish parent you'd be." Saying NOTHING is better than invalidating. Do you know anything about invalidation? It's a terrible head ache but something like "yes, that's one option" (in a valid way not sarcastic manner... it's not as though her opinion on what to do with your son actually matters or will be implimented) and drop the conversation. Basically, wrap up the conversation as quickly as possible and change the subject to something very very neutral. In essence you're fuelling her emotional fire by partaking in these conversations. She is hooking you in and she's cognitively way way way ahead of you. I struggle. I find myself down rabbit warrens too late and have to reverse thrusters to get the heck out of there.

Next bit is that you're going out of your way for her. That's fine, it is what it is, but what's with the extra treats? Take the dog food... that's it. She's looking after herself, you're looking after yourself. You're both looking after the dog. Boundaries are not just for her, they are for you as well. Know where you should stop. The treats are an attempt to pull, she wants to push. Remember what I said about small push back, big pull together. It might be out of character for you, but you need to evolve as well.

Maybe she was attempting to punish you but not sending you a picture of the dog, maybe she went to bed, maybe she got abducted by aliens, don't panic and go with the flow. If you see her at football you see her at football, you're there for your Son. He's the most important person there.

Enabler

Enabler

[Harri]

This thread reached to max post limit and has been locked and split.  Part 2 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339441.msg13075351#msg13075351