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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: A Strange Reaction - Part 3  (Read 267 times)
Yoke
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« on: September 05, 2019, 10:44:11 PM »

Mod Note:  Part 2 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339077.0;all

Thanx @orderline. I understand much how they work now, since this board and reading a lot of Bpd's disorder. Thanx.

Excerpt
What makes us so sad is they look and act as they are in reality, but most of the time they are not present. They are 100% occupied with their own extremely painful thoughts. Or actually the "replacement feelings" or "induced feelings" to not have the thoughts. The process is automatic. Most of the time it is thinking them the same we think we are thinking, while we actually have thoughts and reactions automatically delivered without effort." .. what do u mean by this? What extremely painful thoughts do they have  all the time? The fear of being abandoned? .. explain please..

About this : "Do you really think you are important to someone in so much pain?".. The answer is YES. I belive that I was important to her while we were in a engaged relationship. At least a long time. Not when she broke up and left me.. of course. Why do i think so? Because Otherwise she wouldn't open her heart like she did to me, not cried so much, panic messages from her when we were apart.. and she would not have stayed 9 months if i was not important to her at all.. even though they have so much pain.. they are able to love. Why dont you think you were not important? If you did not belive or felt that, why did u stay in the relationship then? Please do tell.

Excerpt
It is the same pattern they use if a workplace or flat does not work. They are poor on self soothing and to regualte bad feelings. When they can not transform feelings they will be forced to act - to move physically away from the cause of the feeling. " - that i agree with you. My ex have moved several times and in a year 2 times changing flat.. and work. She said the old flat reminded her of bad things and she did also never liked it,  and she just moved to  another new flat. Wich i was supposed to move into.. but she vanished before it happend.. am glad i did not do that in one way, because she would have maybe thrown me out on the street...? Its sad, all of it.. their pain and how huge pain and damage they cause others.. people they said they loved, had a relationship with.. i just dont get it.. why do they seek a  new partner all the time if they know they are gonna be hurt and leave the rs in a matter of time. It only gives them much more pain..or they dont get affected at all when the relationship is over? They just move on to another one..? I do think, that deep down inside.. they do get affected by the breakup in one painful way.. why do they so quickly replace u with someone new? Because of the pain, missing you, the guilt and they are ashamed of their behaviour.. am i all wrong? Even if they have a really mentally ill disorder, they are humans and can feel...
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 04:05:13 AM by Skip » Logged
Yoke
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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2019, 03:14:14 AM »

Thanx @Cromwell! I am so sorry you have went through all this.. am sorry to hear it. But u managed to come out of it and am proud of you! 
 Something i dont understand is this : The more ill I got, the more nasty she got. I never saw it as love anymore." 
How did she think? And why did she become more nasty? U were already down and she continued to kick on you?. Evil and makes me sad! And angry!!

Excerpt: 
Hi Yoke, did you know her in your life before the 9 month engagement? I ask because it is not in total a lot of time to "know" anyone" yes i knew her 3 months before we got togheter. . We worked together and talked much as friends first. She totally opend her soul to me in the very beginning. Showed me her pain.. i felt it so strong and it was so sad, but so beautiful to dare do such. That was the firtst thing i fell in love with her first... that she opend up to me. Her heart.. Of course i did never "know" her fully. Not in that short time.. but i do belive no one will ever know someone fully.. not 100%.. ever..


Excerpt : Unless we decide to go back to it. This is where my early warning to you that she might contact again."  Thanx for the warning. But am 100% sure she will never come back. Why- because she has a new relationship now, all the textmessage of pure hate to me. That makes me belive she never will contact me again @Cromwell.  So for me there is no "might.".  If she wanted  why have she doesn't come back already? That makes no sense....

Excerpt: have you any other dreams in life Yoke? stuff you wanted to do but have not yet? What is stopping you now. If this has been such a huge loss, and you have coped with it - what have you to lose in trying the other stuff? Now might be the perfect time to try it, you can rewrite the story, it does not have to be a trauma one, you are in charge of the story Yoke, I believe whatever pain you have had you can change it today.  "  . It has not felt right to chase my dreams now.. she crushed everyone.. the marrige, the moving in together, this summer and vaccation.. it took hard on me. All of it. It is just now i have started not to cry every day, feeling so empty.. i do feel empty still, sad, angry.. my therapist told me it can take up to a year... to feel better. But i have one dream that i will make come true hopefully. - am going to buy me a house. That will make me happy. In some way. Because i have always wanted a house. A garden. That dream i dont want her to destroy... so thats were i am now. .. please respond someone!! / Yoke
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2019, 09:58:26 AM »

How did she think? And why did she become more nasty? U were already down and she continued to kick on you?. Evil and makes me sad! And angry!!
Hi Yoke, like your situation - the reasons for her nasty moments were never understood. It is part of what led me here to learn about BPD. I believe I was just a convenient target for her lack of being able to control her emotional state. The causes could have nothing to do with me, it was attention seeking, wanting to create a drama. Eventually that morning I had lost all energy to put up with it anymore.

We worked together and talked much as friends first. She totally opend her soul to me in the very beginning. Showed me her pain.. i felt it so strong and it was so sad, but so beautiful to dare do such. That was the firtst thing i fell in love with her first... that she opend up to me. Her heart.. Of course i did never "know" her fully. Not in that short time..
A common experience with BPD - looking back now, do you think it was appropiate? Or was it too-much too-soon? Within the first couple of weeks of dating her, she came out of nowhere and said "I was raped".

But am 100% sure she will never come back. Why- because she has a new relationship now, all the textmessage of pure hate to me. That makes me belive she never will contact me again @Cromwell.  So for me there is no "might.".  If she wanted  why have she doesn't come back already? That makes no sense....
There is a chance, higher if the relationship falls apart. My ex disappeared ghosted me when we were 'friends' for 6 months. She had also got into a relationship in that time, when it ended she ended up in a complete major depression and I got a text out of nowhere saying "guess who this is". The friends she has Yoke, may or may not be sufficiently available to soothe her. If you were a good provider of her emotional needs, it makes sense that she would try when she is desperate.
It has not felt right to chase my dreams now.. she crushed everyone.. the marrige, the moving in together, this summer and vaccation.. it took hard on me. All of it. It is just now i have started not to cry every day, feeling so empty.. i do feel empty still, sad, angry.. my therapist told me it can take up to a year... to feel better. But i have one dream that i will make come true hopefully. - am going to buy me a house. That will make me happy.
Im pleased you are crying less and have support to talk through this. Feeling anger is an important part of healing process - you are feeling it already is a good sign even though it is not a pleasant emotion, it is a very useful one. It took me about 4 months after going no contact to start to get angry. I have dealt with most of it Yoke, at least it does not affect my day. Self-care at this moment will help you through this. I think you are doing really well judging by all the things you have said. Can I ask - if she was to contact you today and ask for another chance, that she is finished with this guy and she was sorry for what she done. I know you would be shocked because you believed there is 100% no chance, but I ask if for some reason it did happen - is this a relationship you would still try again? Your wish to have your own house, I would personally spend more time of my day thinking of how to achieve this or working to achieve it - it helped me in that situation.
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 11:40:37 AM »

Thanx @Cromwell! I am so sorry you have went through all this.. am sorry to hear it. But u managed to come out of it and am proud of you! 
 Something i dont understand is this : The more ill I got, the more nasty she got. I never saw it as love anymore." 
How did she think? And why did she become more nasty? U were already down and she continued to kick on you?. Evil and makes me sad! And angry!!

Excerpt: 
Hi Yoke, did you know her in your life before the 9 month engagement? I ask because it is not in total a lot of time to "know" anyone" yes i knew her 3 months before we got togheter. . We worked together and talked much as friends first. She totally opend her soul to me in the very beginning. Showed me her pain.. i felt it so strong and it was so sad, but so beautiful to dare do such. That was the firtst thing i fell in love with her first... that she opend up to me. Her heart.. Of course i did never "know" her fully. Not in that short time.. but i do belive no one will ever know someone fully.. not 100%.. ever..


Excerpt : Unless we decide to go back to it. This is where my early warning to you that she might contact again."  Thanx for the warning. But am 100% sure she will never come back. Why- because she has a new relationship now, all the textmessage of pure hate to me. That makes me belive she never will contact me again @Cromwell.  So for me there is no "might.".  If she wanted  why have she doesn't come back already? That makes no sense....

Excerpt: have you any other dreams in life Yoke? stuff you wanted to do but have not yet? What is stopping you now. If this has been such a huge loss, and you have coped with it - what have you to lose in trying the other stuff? Now might be the perfect time to try it, you can rewrite the story, it does not have to be a trauma one, you are in charge of the story Yoke, I believe whatever pain you have had you can change it today.  "  . It has not felt right to chase my dreams now.. she crushed everyone.. the marrige, the moving in together, this summer and vaccation.. it took hard on me. All of it. It is just now i have started not to cry every day, feeling so empty.. i do feel empty still, sad, angry.. my therapist told me it can take up to a year... to feel better. But i have one dream that i will make come true hopefully. - am going to buy me a house. That will make me happy. In some way. Because i have always wanted a house. A garden. That dream i dont want her to destroy... so thats were i am now. .. please respond someone!! /
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2019, 04:03:33 AM »

Hi Yoke

I thought I responded but it is missing.

I mentioned about the feeling that 100% she will never contact you. I think it might be unrealistic high, all that it takes is her current relationship to get into difficulty or collapse, and if there is insufficient others in her life to soothe, you could very much be needed in that state and called upon. At least, you have a heads up for it.

About the house with a garden, I mentioned other dreams because when I got so involved with her, id very much lost sight of not just the fact that I had other things I wanted to accomplish - the emotional upset made all of these things forgotten.

I can relate to how you feel that "it does not feel right to chase my dreams now". I did change career one month after going no contact, it ended up working well for me, it was a big distraction - but it was also a huge amount of stress and difficult. Im not sure if I went back in time if I would have instead tried to rest more, tackle the depression, I guess the answer might be in us as individuals. I needed distraction, and I get joy out of work, it did not cure the problem but it kept me busy. I guess this is what I suggest might be a source of help in addition to the therapy - something of interest to shift the focus away from her and let that intensity go from boil to simmer - it already comes across you have had success in this - less crying, getting slightly better, you are on your way.

How do you feel about her having opened her soul to you, the same happened to me - except I look back and realise it was "too much, too soon". It created a strong bond, I ended up sharing with her too. It felt very emotionally strong, it took a lot of trust, I guess it made the downside so heavy and where I found myself with the betrayal and when things started to go wrong.

Yoke, Im not sure if she became nastier, or if I just became so worn down that it felt nearly impossible to cope with the BS anymore. Either way, the end result was that I went completely no contact. Sort of like, on that day the nastiness was not specially worse than it had been, but it was the final straw to break the camels back. Id put up with so much but found my limitation, needed to do something about it.

How have you been lately? Hope it is improving.
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2019, 07:03:24 AM »

Thanx @Cromwell!
Excerpt
I think it might be unrealistic high, all that it takes is her current relationship to get into difficulty or collapse, and if there is insufficient others in her life to soothe, you could very much be needed in that state and called upon." The friends she has Yoke, may or may not be sufficiently available to soothe her. If you were a good provider of her emotional needs, it makes sense that she would try when she is desperate."

I do still think she would never contact me again. Because of anger and maybe ashame?  Either way i think she would not come back. And would i be prepared and do I want her back?

Excerpt

Can I ask - if she was to contact you today and ask for another chance, that she is finished with this guy and she was sorry for what she done. I know you would be shocked because you believed there is 100% no chance, but I ask if for some reason it did happen - is this a relationship you would still try again? 
 I have read that Bpd's dont admitt  ashame, regret? Is that not true? Because how can they come back otherwise?..tell me @cromwell. And how did you feel when she texted you and wanted to come back??
 I miss her like crazy, every single day! but can i ever trust her again? No. So what is there left to try again.?  One side of me wants her back soo much.. but even if she would apologuize for herself.. is that enough?  It would take soo much more than a "sorry" from her. Even if my heart and soul desperate wants her more than anything..But -
 Am too damaged..  About what u said the evil behaviour "I believe I was just a convenient target for her lack of being able to control her emotional state. The causes could have nothing to do with me, it was attention seeking, wanting to create a drama. Eventually that morning I had lost all energy to put up with it anymore." .. i belive you. Maybe it is that way.   

Excerpt
looking back now, do you think it was appropiate? Or was it too-much too-soon? Within the first couple of weeks of dating her, she came out of nowhere and said "I was raped". I dont think it was appropiate of my ex to open her heart soon, i found it beautiful because she showed me her pain, her fear. About your ex telling u she got raped- how soon was that when she told you @Cromwell?  "
except I look back and realise it was "too much, too soon". It created a strong bond, I ended up sharing with her too. It felt very emotionally strong, it took a lot of trust, I guess it made the downside so heavy and where I found myself with the betrayal and when things started to go wrong." I can understand it made the downside so heavy.. and for myself painful because now i KNOW her wounds and fear/pain..
 Excerpt
Feeling anger is an important part of healing process - you are feeling it already is a good sign even though it is not a pleasant emotion, it is a very useful one. It took me about 4 months after going no contact to start to get angry. I have dealt with most of it Yoke"  Yes, i do feel anger, towards her, towards me.. towards the whole situation.. that i could belive she loved me? And that i stayed in it for 9 months?? How could i do that?? Of love? Even though the words of hate, the breakups,  the anger, the pain.. i went back over and over.. for what? Being totally broken now.. its sad and crazy...hope to hear from u soon. Thanx @Cromwell
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2019, 11:26:26 PM »

Excerpt 
I think it might be unrealistic high, all that it takes is her current relationship to get into difficulty or collapse, and if there is insufficient others in her life to soothe, you could very much be needed in that state and called upon." The friends she has Yoke, may or may not be sufficiently available to soothe her. If you were a good provider of her emotional needs, it makes sense that she would try when she is desperate."

I do still think she would never contact me again. Because of anger and maybe ashame?  Either way i think she would not come back. And would i be prepared and do I want her back? 

Excerpt 

Can I ask - if she was to contact you today and ask for another chance, that she is finished with this guy and she was sorry for what she done. I know you would be shocked because you believed there is 100% no chance, but I ask if for some reason it did happen - is this a relationship you would still try again? 
 I have read that Bpd's dont admitt  ashame, regret? Is that not true? Because how can they come back otherwise?..tell me @cromwell. And how did you feel when she texted you and wanted to come back??
 I miss her like crazy, every single day! but can i ever trust her again? No. So what is there left to try again.?  One side of me wants her back soo much.. but even if she would apologuize for herself.. is that enough?  It would take soo much more than a "sorry" from her. Even if my heart and soul desperate wants her more than anything..But - 
 Am too damaged..  About what u said the evil behaviour "I believe I was just a convenient target for her lack of being able to control her emotional state. The causes could have nothing to do with me, it was attention seeking, wanting to create a drama. Eventually that morning I had lost all energy to put up with it anymore." .. i belive you. Maybe it is that way.   

Excerpt 
looking back now, do you think it was appropiate? Or was it too-much too-soon? Within the first couple of weeks of dating her, she came out of nowhere and said "I was raped". I dont think it was appropiate of my ex to open her heart soon, i found it beautiful because she showed me her pain, her fear. About your ex telling u she got raped- how soon was that when she told you @Cromwell?  " 
except I look back and realise it was "too much, too soon". It created a strong bond, I ended up sharing with her too. It felt very emotionally strong, it took a lot of trust, I guess it made the downside so heavy and where I found myself with the betrayal and when things started to go wrong." I can understand it made the downside so heavy.. and for myself painful because now i KNOW her wounds and fear/pain.. 
 Excerpt
Feeling anger is an important part of healing process - you are feeling it already is a good sign even though it is not a pleasant emotion, it is a very useful one. It took me about 4 months after going no contact to start to get angry. I have dealt with most of it Yoke"  Yes, i do feel anger, towards her, towards me.. towards the whole situation.. that i could belive she loved me? And that i stayed in it for 9 months?? How could i do that?? Of love? Even though the words of hate, the breakups,  the anger, the pain.. i went back over and over.. for what? Being totally broken now.. its sad and crazy...hope to hear your reply from u @Cromwell
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2019, 04:00:10 PM »

 I have read that Bpd's dont admitt  ashame, regret? Is that not true? Because how can they come back otherwise?..tell me @cromwell. And how did you feel when she texted you and wanted to come back??

Because whenever I broke up with her she would very quickly contact me, I wanted to believe that somehow she knew she was wrong, loved me, and did not want a break up. I knew knowing about BPD, the most I feel accurate today is that my splitting up might have created abandoment fear. My ex has said sorry before, but it was rare and it was glib. You are right about not admitting shame, or regrets.
 I miss her like crazy, every single day! but can i ever trust her again? No. So what is there left to try again.?  One side of me wants her back soo much.. but even if she would apologuize for herself.. is that enough?  It would take soo much more than a "sorry" from her. Even if my heart and soul desperate wants her more than anything..But - 
 Am too damaged..  About what u said the evil behaviour "I believe I was just a convenient target for her lack of being able to control her emotional state. The causes could have nothing to do with me, it was attention seeking, wanting to create a drama. Eventually that morning I had lost all energy to put up with it anymore." .. i belive you. Maybe it is that way. 

It is fine to miss her Yoke, at least, there are still times I "miss" the memories of times I was happy with her. But that really is nostalgia of the past and it creates an emotional response in us, sort of stepping back in time. Yoke you had tried so many times already.   
I dont think it was appropiate of my ex to open her heart soon, i found it beautiful because she showed me her pain, her fear. About your ex telling u she got raped- how soon was that when she told you @Cromwell?  " 
except I look back and realise it was "too much, too soon". It created a strong bond, I ended up sharing with her too. It felt very emotionally strong, it took a lot of trust, I guess it made the downside so heavy and where I found myself with the betrayal and when things started to go wrong."

The third or fourth time we met Yoke, it was also just random it had been a beautiful evening, she had been happy go lucky, then in a quiet moment she said she had been raped - but with no emotion - just as if I were to say "Im going to go and wash the car now". 
 
Yes, i do feel anger, towards her, towards me.. towards the whole situation.. that i could belive she loved me? And that i stayed in it for 9 months?? How could i do that?? Of love? Even though the words of hate, the breakups,  the anger, the pain.. i went back over and over.. for what? Being totally broken now.. its sad and crazy...hope to hear your reply from u @Cromwell

I know Yoke it is a lot of questions and a very difficult thing to get through, Ive been there it felt like it would never end, but it does, and it also got easier. It has been one of, if not - the - most difficult emotional extremes Ive ever had to confront. I think most of my own going back after each breakup was because I still held out some sort of hope that these were minor things that could be solved, I guess can call it "false hope". Looking back I would have/should have done many things different and left earlier, Yoke, but that has been part of my own learning experience and it involves a lot of deep reflection not just about her but about myself. How have you been lately?
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2019, 10:34:59 AM »

Thanx @Cromwell.  I agree on this "  I
think most of my own going back after each breakup was because I still held out some sort of hope that these were minor things that could be solved, I guess can call it "false hope". Looking back I would have/should have done many things different and left earlier, Yoke, but that has been part of my own learning experience and it involves a lot of deep reflection not just about her but about myself. " Even if we deep inside know we should leave the relationship- we stayed. I stayed.. because of, just HOPE. Hope that if we solved the issue/fear/problem she would see that i loved her so much and really tried. The hope is the last thing that leaves you..right? Some part deep inside of me still have that hope.. Hope that she someday will realize that her actions really hurt people.. that she may feel regret .. and that She someday stops hating me.- that is my biggest wish- that she wont hate me.. I still dont know why she hates me so much?! And that haunts me every day @Cromwell. If i only knew.. then my soul would get peace..

  I am dealing this thing with my therapist now..the deep reflections about myself. Why I stayed , why I let her abuse me verbally.. what i have become of all this and what and who I am. What wounds she opend inside me, that i already had before i met her... something has happend to me, am not that person I used to be. I think different, see people different...good or bad? I dont know..


Excerpt " then in a quiet moment she said she had been raped - but with no emotion - just as if I were to say "Im going to go and wash the car now".  That was really strange of her. What did you feel and how did you reply her?? It must have been very hard to hear.. my god

Excerpt
think it might be unrealistic high, all that it takes is her current relationship to get into difficulty or collapse, and if there is insufficient others in her life to soothe, you could very much be needed in that state and called upon." The friends she has Yoke, may or may not be sufficiently available to soothe her. If you were a good provider of her emotional needs, it makes sense that she would try when she is desperate." How do you mean by this  that her friends may or may not be sufficiently available? I dont understand how u mean.?  I still dont think she will ever contact me again because of the words of hate she sent to me.. that would be very strange of her.. i would never contact someone i texted words of hate  - what would i say.. "hey sorry bout the words, i did not mean it.. can we see eachother." .. normal people dont do such .


"How do you feel about her having opened her soul to you, the same happened to me - except I look back and realise it was "too much, too soon". It created a strong bond, I ended up sharing with her too. It felt very emotionally strong, it took a lot of trust, " 
Am not sorry for that i opend up myself to her.. i wanted her to see ME.  How i been feeling lately? Anger, frustration... anger because i trusted her, that she loved me. Anger because i am broken down by her... how are you @Cromwell?
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2019, 02:49:42 PM »

Hi Yoke

Im doing really well at the moment, this past week especially. I do still think of her but it is maybe in total of 15minutes a day, sometimes I get flashbacks but they go away quickly and I just see them as a temporary annoyance. It is becoming a lot easier but it did take a very long time, I understand how upsetting and confusing it is. I spend my day amongst friends who there is no conflict, arguments with, laughter and joy. Otherwise I work very hard and have family, hobbies. Also I think maybe crucially was getting a good diet, sleep and physical health back.

When you say your biggest wish is that she wont hate you. You may already have it but not realise it. With no contact, it might be easy to assume that we are hated, it may be not so. She might feel already or in the future: shame, regret, miss you, this disorder is very much about emotions being changing quickly. This is the main reason I could not continue - the unpredictability. I could be loved all through morning to only be hated by lunch time, with no apparent reason beyond "how she feels".

When she said she had been raped I did not question her about it, or console her, she kept on talking and changed the subject. She brought it up a few times in the relationship but in a one-sided conversation way. She spoke like this often, sometimes for hours in a monologue. My contribution would be a head-nod, or just enough to prove I was paying attention. Eventually they were the same stories on repeat, some of them almost word for word, I eventually switched off mentally it was very draining in energy.

When I said her friends not be available, what I really mean is - anyone. When my ex would go into a state of panic/fear which I believe now is rooted in a form of psychosis - I had to be available during that time, regardless of if I was working or busy, if I did not - she would need someone. So if this is similar to your ex, she will need someone to be with if her relationship is not there anymore.

There is a lot to be angry about Yoke, it is important to go through this phase for healing. It took me awhile but I was with her a long time, I knew she had problems but I never knew just how deeply troubled she really was.
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2019, 01:23:30 AM »

Thanx @Cromwell.
Excerpt

When you say your biggest wish is that she wont hate you. You may already have it but not realise it. With no contact, it might be easy to assume that we are hated, it may be not so. She might feel already or in the future: shame, regret, miss you, this disorder is very much about emotions being changing quickly" I wrote her, and left her a letter the 21 th of August told her I was sorry and told her i loved her but all I got was pure evil rage and hate.. That hurt me a lot. Because She vanished in May without any explanation , with just.. rage. Accusing me for things i did not do.. maybe thats why i feel such pain and fear that she hates me. All i wanted was her to love me. Because I loved her so much. It hurts me, that the same person that fell in love with me, who i slept with and spent 9 months with.. hates me.  " I hope that she someday will stop hating me, or feel that she misses me. Some small part of me wish and think that she is missing me, and thats why she throws me hate instead? .. i wish you are right about that Cromwell..


Excerpt
I do still think of her but it is maybe in total of 15minutes a day, sometimes I get flashbacks but they go away quickly and I just see them as a temporary annoyance. It is becoming a lot easier but it did take a very long time"  am glad u feel better @Cromwell. I do not think of my ex 24/7  but many times a day. Its so much that reminds me of her... still. And soon is the date for when i kissed her for the first time.. and it all started.. 3th Of October..one year ago.. am terrified of thinking of that day.. it makes me miss her or at least feel more sad the closer the date comes.. but am glad talk to you here. It gives me support and helps a lot. thanx!!  Its so much i want to talk to u about, but got to work now . Ill be back. Take care.
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2019, 02:40:42 PM »

Now it will soon be one year since i kissed her and it all started.. am terrified  of that date because it reminds me of what i had... i hate myself for still missing her. I want to wake up from this nightmare.. be myself again.. i know it has not gone such long time since the breakup but to me - it feels like i have been in hell too long.. how can i erase it. ?? I do more often get angry when i think of how our relationship ended,  the accusations, push-pull... and i dont cry that often. But sometimes it just get thrown in my face and i do cry when i talk about her with friends sometimes. I feel totally numb and that scares me.. the thought of never find someone to love again scares me and makes me soo sad. Before i met my ex, i liked or.. was used to be alone and it was okay. Now- it only hurts being alone . Since a couple of weeks ago, i feel that she has been in my apartement, moving small stuff, like the schampoo bottle... or closed a window.. is it me that is going crazy here?... am scared
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2019, 04:37:42 PM »

Hi Yoke

The crying, the feeling of her being in the apartment. I felt similar things - I know now that it was depression related symptoms. It might help a lot to get some treatment for this, just until you get through it. I might have recovered sooner, so I say this because I wish I had done so. It sounds like you have done very well already and have good support, so think of trying to get some treatment for the depression as just another boost to all of that. You are not going crazy, but thinking you might be is also a classic sign. Your life and future is far more than this relationship Yoke, you have other dreams besides her, it is just a case of getting confidence back from a very hurtful and confusing relationship that you are having to now figure out and get through. Yoke in some ways when I had similar thoughts that I might never find love again after this - in some ways it is "real" because it is due to the situation at the moment. But it is hard when in that state of mind to imagine that the future will be different - when we have got better. Depression makes us feel the future is negative, but it is a disorganised thought process.

Yoke, the year 'anniversary' - lets stay real here. It is another day on the calendar, the sun will rise and fall as it always does. Do something extra nice for yourself on that day.  

Id like you to know that it makes me happy to hear that talking to me about this has helped, but also that it has helped me as well to share what I have experienced.

Most of the anti depressants take around 4 weeks to reach a level where you will notice a difference so my advice is if you have not already, try to get the ball rolling as soon as possible. in the meantime try to relax from this it can fatigue our bodies very easily and cause these types of thoughts - sleep. diet - a lot of small things that add up together to effect our state of mind, besides the therapy, stuff we have control over.

What I say here is, Basically it is Take care of 'number one' time?, please Yoke.  :)We are all here for you.
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2019, 05:42:47 AM »

Thanx @Cromwell. I will try do something nice "that one year" date. The worst day will probably be the date we got engaged. On her birthday.. but i hope i will manage that too.  Of course i wil, but not feel so sad about it. I have learned much about myself of the relationship. I think more of me now, how I feel and dont put my friends before me. I have started to look for houses again and i know i have to move because this apartement is toxic for me.. too many bad memories here.. maybe not bad, but they hurt too much. My ex lived here.. so that is not good. I've been thinking a lot of if i should just see her on the street someday.. how i would react? Now.. it would only hurt even if that is what i want.. but am also so angry now. My therapist thinks that is because i have come in another state.. i want to change my life, move on, but it is not going such fast as i want. I want a house now, so i can concentrate on that, plant my things in the garden, fix things there because that makes me happy. But right now its not like that and that is frustrating and i turn it to anger. And that is good.. but not be angry too long:).. my ex is not so much in my mind , every day- yes. But not like before. I feel it and its good. But it makes me also sad because i dont want to let all the memoires fade away.. understand how i mean @cromwell. ? I will talk to my doctor of medicin for my depression. I think i need it. Thanx.! I still think alot about the hate.. you wrote "
 Excerpt
 When you say your biggest wish is that she wont hate you. You may already have it but not realise it. With no contact, it might be easy to assume that we are hated, it may be not so. She might feel already or in the future: shame, regret, miss you, this disorder is very much about emotions being changing quickly" 
It hunts me everyday.. feeling her hate towards me. I dont know if she still do hate me? But why would she not @Cromwell?? I have hurted her and that is why she left?.. can you explain how you think that might be wrong. That she maybe not hate me?  I think she got angry knocking on her door because that reminded her that i do exist, and that was to her.. uncomfortable. And she did not know how to deal with that, and her normal reaction is what she can handle best--hate!.. can it be like that?.. hope u respond @cromwell. Thank for support me.
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2019, 01:42:35 PM »

Thanx @Cromwell. I will try do something nice "that one year" date. The worst day will probably be the date we got engaged. On her birthday.. but i hope i will manage that too.  Of course i wil, but not feel so sad about it.

You may feel strange on that day, be strong and it will pass. Once it did for me it made things far easier. Part of it is just habit triggers, birthdays were very happy memories and on those days I would reflect and think "maybe I was wrong", because I recalled how happy I was. Im glad that I controlled the emotions, did not contact her, send a card, I know now it would have just made detachment more difficult. My ex turned up at my house late in the evening on her birthday, I kept the door closed. It is an example of having to be firm and make it without doubt, a signal that it truly is "over" and birthdays, Xmas etc, are not door-openers or to use as emotional leverage.   

I have started to look for houses again and i know i have to move because this apartement is toxic for me..

Sounds like a good idea to me, Yoke.  They say that moving house is one of the most stressful things, (not sure why BPD relationship is not on that list) but anyway - it made a big difference it was part of "moving on" from that time of life and for some reason change of geography helped.
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2019, 02:01:49 PM »

. my ex is not so much in my mind , every day- yes. But not like before. I feel it and its good. But it makes me also sad because i dont want to let all the memoires fade away.. understand how i mean @cromwell. ?

The memories will stay but if you think back in life to other memories, good or bad, they are there but the emotional wind has been taken out of the sail. When you overcome this it will be the same. For my situation the memories are now different, they do not make me feel emotional, they are just part of life-experience. I would not want to forget because I have learned from them, it might not have been overall a nice experience, but it has been a useful one.  

 
It hunts me everyday.. feeling her hate towards me. I dont know if she still do hate me? But why would she not @Cromwell?? I have hurted her and that is why she left?.. can you explain how you think that might be wrong. That she maybe not hate me?

It takes a lot of mental energy to hold an emotion like hate for a long period of time. I highly doubt she hates you Yoke, but part of it will be her distraction with the new relationship and other stuff in life. That does not mean that she does not think of you at all - like you do not exist. When I met my ex again after 9 months, she told me that she remembered me when certain songs played. There are triggers for memory, for them the same as us - no one can escape these, but it is up to ourselves to be able to be in control of them emotionally. It is difficult to have two contradicting feelings, if she is reminded of a time she saw you as good - it will conflict with the hate. It needs a coping mechanism to alter this. The thing is Yoke, wether loved or hated or anything else - we have no way of knowing. What do we know? That the relationship is over, it is hard work to find closure, but part of this has to be not caring what she thinks - it is no longer relevant. Life for you wants to go on in new directions - new dreams, the question I would ask myself is "what part, if any, does how she think about me have to do with my life today, or achieving new goals?".

 
Thank for support me.

You will get there Yoke, already you have done so many positive things to move forward. Well done so far and thank-you too.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2019, 11:48:22 AM »

Thanx @Cromwell. For the support. Today its my birthday. About the memories

The memories will stay but if you think back in life to other memories, good or bad, they are there but the emotional wind has been taken out of the sail. When you overcome this it will be the same. - I cant wait until it will feel alright to be reminded of them because still, they hurt. They are not that strong now, but they stil hurt like hell.  Or maybe its the part of missing her, that hurts most? .. but it will be better later on!

Excerpt " takes a lot of mental energy to hold an emotion like hate for a long period of time. I highly doubt she hates you Yoke, but part of it will be her distraction with the new relationship and other stuff in life. That does not mean that she does not think of you at all - like you do not exist. When I met my ex again after 9 months, she told me that she remembered me when certain songs played. There are triggers for memory, for them the same as us - no one can escape these, but it is up to ourselves to be able to be in control of them emotionally. It is difficult to

I really hope that about the hate...and i do wish with all my heart that she does not just think bad of me.. that would calm my soul. Just knowing she at least has ONE good memory of me.!

I do also hope u are right about that it takes too much energy from her to hate me forever @Cromwell.. And i hope that some memories of us triggers her to feel something that not is just hate or negative against me. Sometimes i wish she felt sorry, pain or cried..- i feel ashamed tha i want her feel this, is that selfish of me @Cromwell??..
 It does not change anything at all, but to me it would.. why? Because i loved her with all my heart and really tried do my best showing her - but I failed...... Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) i was talking to my therapist this week and we talked about fear.. my fear is to live alone in my whole life. Not just of my age, also that am gay. There is soo hard to find someone in my age and i belive the chances are 5%.. that breaks my heart. Makes me angry. Sad. Sad because my ex really showed me how it is to be with someone 24/7.. and i loved every second of it. And now the loneliness just hurts like hell. Angry because she made me belive she would never go back to men... but she did.. 3 weeks after she vanished. And am angry of myself because I am gay... things would be so much easier if i liked men. I think my chances would be soo much better... its exhausting all this.. feeling angry, sad, lost hope, fear, miss her... damn it what i hate it. And the only one i ever wanted to spend ONE birtday with, with a loved one.. it wont happen this year either.... Take care ! Hope for you to reply @Cromwell.
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2019, 05:48:58 PM »

Happy Birthday Yoke

I understand this is a lot to sort out, it is difficult emotionally and therapy is hard work. Selfish? What is left? Where is there any issue with shame, assuming there is anything to feel shame for it. The relationship is over, yours as well as my own - what is there left but "self"?

Yoke, if I had not really "started" to get selfish, as in, properly selfish - I really feel terrified to imagine what my life would have ended up, where it was going. Look at all the upset this has caused you, emotional suffering - it has made you ill. If that situation is not enough to be selfish over, what is?

Other selfish dreams - or is it? House, Garden. Yoke, not possible to achieve in a relationship where there is a monthly split up. You know this as fact, as much as houses are not aquired or built on dreams but on strong foundations. Gardens too, even they represent our own selfish driven designs of creativity. What sort of garden would you have Yoke? what would it say about you?

Keep going with therapy, it is opening up new pathways of enquiry - stuff that really has nothing to do with her at all, yet having such an intense relationship and having it end so abruptly - it can focus us so much on it that other stuff gets out of vision.

Yoke, im not surprised you feel there is a 5% chance. In todays terms you are working hard to get over this, when you do, the figure will change. You met her, you were happy and so you can still have this elsewhere. This stuff is awful, it hits the self esteem but all these are things that can be built back, or stronger. I notice from my own life, it has given me more confidence by being able to overcome such a huge emotional crisis, that then turned into something more manageable.5% changed over time, I was there too. Yoke I went on dates where I never even felt 5%, I felt a shadow of my former self, really troubled, ill, but I could even in that worst of states be attractive. My own "5%" was not someone else's view.

Yoke, it is 2019 not 1960, being gay is not a barrier to a relationship in these modern times. The barrier here is how this situation has knocked you down and shaken your self confidence. Building it back up, is selfish, and for the good of someone who you have not even yet met - who wants to be with you. But the % is lower if we are at a situation of still worrying about what our ex thinks of us - how could you love someone else until this stuff is drawn a line under and not carry it forward? I think this is where the 5% is, based on how you feel today having gone through so much hurt.

Yoke, invalidation time - you say you were with her 24/7 - you were not. There was multiple split up and breaks up. It is stuff like this as an example - facts - that cannot be logically argued against that have to be faced up to from feelings or dream like states. This is not dopamine inducing stuff Yoke, I give it that, but for me it became the way out, perhaps the only real way. Yoke there is so much the world has to offer, you already know a lot of what you want from it, the world and your part in it never stopped because of your ex, she was not the monopoly holder of your happiness. You say you invested "all" your heart, so of course the way that feels is like having put all eggs into one basket and it goes wrong, huge disappointment, upsetting, but already you are doing all these selfish things to get better, good for you Yoke.
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« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2019, 04:53:57 PM »

Thanx for the birthday wishes @Cromwell!
 About the selfish part
Excerpt " Look at all the upset this has caused you, emotional suffering - it has made you ill. If that situation is not enough to be selfish over, what is?" You are right, the situation has made me selfish? Im trying to survive here alone. When my ex, last year tried to commit suicide, that was a wakeup call for me- I did not know at that time, she has tried do it, but she broke up with me 2 days before ( one of many times) .. and I started to go through my life that night. Wich friends i had, real or fake, my past, my childhood, my fear showing emotions etc.. and that night i decided to "leave" some friends. I decided to change my life, because i did not like the one i was, I decided to leave one of my "best "friends" - Because i was tired of how she could talk so much PLEASE READ about some of my other friends.. so I "disappeared".. One reason because of that, and another because I was desperately trying to fix it with my ex again. Try save our relationship. I was tired of all the breakups, hurting, pushpull... so i did not have the energy to explain to my "best friend" why i stopped calling her, answer her textmessage. And then the weeks became months. And now it has gone 5 months since i left my friend. I have during this months since my ex left me in May.. cried my heart out, starting therapy,  trying to avoid myself to commit suicide..i have been in hell.. as you know @Cromwell... Today , or to be honest , i have been thinking of just call my friend explain why i left. The reason. Not in detail about my ex. Because that is my business and my friend likes to gossip, and she would never understand all of it. And i dont want to hang out my ex like that. Even if she hurted me so.. I dont want to disappear like my ex did, with no explanation.. not be that bad. So today i called my friend. She answered and we talked just for a few minutes and then she said to me" what did you want with this, why did u call me? It has gone 5 months Yoke?" I answered, i know, and i understand that you find it strange and that you are mad, but i wanted to explain why I left. And thought we could meet or talk through the phone one day, if you want.. she replied" i dont know if i want that. I replied to her that she could think about it and text or call me next week if she wanted.. then we hung up. I am glad i called her, and now its up to her to contact me so i can explain.. I know it has gone 5 months and its not good.. but I havent had any energy or felt that i could call her. I have been so "selfish" trying to survive the worst pain and nightmare from the breakup i ever have experienced... So i have been selfish.. and i have changed my way of thinking..during this awful months.. It scares me a bit, because before i wanted to have many friends around me.- now.. i am numb. I dont care if all my friends leaves me. Why is that so @Cromwell? Is it my low energy? Is it because my depression?.. why do i not care about things anymore? Have u felt that too..?.. Is it this you mean by
"yet having such an intense relationship and having it end so abruptly - it can focus us so much on it that other stuff gets out of vision. " ?..
Can u understand why i did not contacted my friend and gave her the reason i just left our friendship? And was it right of me calling her today?
You know this as fact, as much as houses are not aquired or built on dreams but on strong foundations. Gardens too, even they represent our own selfish driven designs of creativity. What sort of garden would you have Yoke? what would it say about you? 

House, Garden. Yoke, not possible to achieve in a relationship where there is a monthly split up. 

-I know that it would have been even a worse ending if me and her had a house together... it would be a disaster.. But  i feel like my dreams were crushed - because she has been the ONLY one i have felt i wanted to live with.. no one else. And i have never been so in love ever. That's why it feels like PLEASE READ and that i never will be happy and get my dreams come true.. But i will get a house. And a garden. With lots of herbs, flowers and see things grow there. I will have a grill too. Am just so scared that i will spend my life there alone forever. Then the house , will it make me happy live there alone? I hope so. At least i achived one of my dreams.. even if it will distract me and i wont be happy. But then , at least i tried.. right @Cromwell?
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2019, 06:12:54 PM »

So i have been selfish.. and i have changed my way of thinking..during this awful months.. It scares me a bit, because before i wanted to have many friends around me.- now.. i am numb. I dont care if all my friends leaves me. Why is that so @Cromwell? Is it my low energy? Is it because my depression?.. why do i not care about things anymore? Have u felt that too..?.. Is it this you mean by
"yet having such an intense relationship and having it end so abruptly - it can focus us so much on it that other stuff gets out of vision. " ?..

From my own experience Yoke and from what I understand about depression generally, it is a known symptom that people self-isolate and withdraw, which can be very difficult when having positive support and social contact are important for recovery. Yet, the key word here is positive support - people to trust, you said earlier that this particular friend is someone you had some issues with? There is a statistic on this support group - 77% of members are depressed to varying levels. That figure is very high when you compare it against the population sample. In my own country it is approx 15%. My advice Yoke is to get as much positive support - rather than just any support. Getting over this I realise looking back, is having to find people that are able to help not make worse. It is a vulnerable situation - maybe you are already feeling that you have gone through enough and dont want any more emotional stress added on? It sounds like there is a lot in life you have been thinking about, more than just her that has troubled you - fears, or just simply being discontent and fed up and wanting some changes that you and your therapist are finding out more.
-I know that it would have been even a worse ending if me and her had a house together... it would be a disaster.. But  i feel like my dreams were crushed - because she has been the ONLY one i have felt i wanted to live with.. no one else. And i have never been so in love ever. That's why it feels like PLEASE READ and that i never will be happy and get my dreams come true.. But i will get a house. And a garden. With lots of herbs, flowers and see things grow there. I will have a grill too. Am just so scared that i will spend my life there alone forever. Then the house , will it make me happy live there alone? I hope so. At least i achived one of my dreams.. even if it will distract me and i wont be happy.  

Yoke, I guess the only answer to give here is; you will know when it happens. What about your neighbours, have you thought about what they would be like? easy going, live-and-let live, or would they complain about the smell of grilled food? Maybe youd have the best neighbours and great friends, but they would move out one day and be replaced by ones from hell.

But then , at least i tried.. right @Cromwell?

Exactly!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2019, 12:53:53 PM »

Thanx @Cromwell. I havent thought about neighbours.. at all. Right now, am living in a highrise building. Just see my neighbours in the elevator once and then. Say I and just smalltalk.. I have never liked to get friends with my neighbours,  but not my enemies either Smiling (click to insert in post)....

Excerpt
maybe you are already feeling that you have gone through enough and dont want any more emotional stress added on? It sounds like there is a lot in life you have been thinking about, more than just her that has troubled you - fears, or just simply being discontent and fed up and wanting some changes that you and your therapist are finding out more. " .. yes, i think i am just fed up with negative things. Am so vulnerable now, smallest thing makes me either mad , or sad.. because I am frustrated right now. I want to move on quickly but i can't do it now. It will take time for me to heal...and that frustrates me a lot. I don't think of my ex so much anymore.. and when i do, i try to foccus on something else... But today.. when i was at the mall buying milk.. Suddely this pain came right through me.. that I would do anything just to SEE my ex, for a minute. Even from distance..i would do anything to just see her.. her eyes, lips- her face.. without her notice it.. and that was really painful @Cromwell..you cant imagine how much i miss her face.. she has the most clear iceblue eyes i ever seen.. I hate that i miss her so damn much! Its hard to explain, but i miss HER. The talking.. that I miss most. Our conversations... How long did it take for you, really stopped miss your ex Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) Cromwell? I wish every night when i go to bed.. that i will wake up and it was all a bad nightmare i had.. i miss the old me. When I was satisfied with my life.. not heartbroken and the selfesteem is in the bottom. I have negative view about myself.. thinking that she left me because she hated having sex with a woman- that she just wanted to "try it".. that she thought i was ugly..that she hated my personallity.. maybe its because of that she never told me why she broke up with me and finally left me.. why did she not fight for us? Why did she have to stay 9 months... ? The Closure" -that still hunts my mind.i hate it. Really..  @Cromwell. I really try to not miss her, but am moving on.. just with too small steps.. Help me get through it. Tell me more about how "they" think/feel. That makes me get more energy to move foward..how are you @Cromwell, are you okay? Regards /yoke
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« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2019, 08:11:29 PM »

Hi Yoke,

Im doing well thanks.

The situation in the supermarket, buying the milk. I read this closely and I wonder if maybe at a subconcious level there was maybe some part of you hoping to see her there? Is it a place that has a chance you might have?

The infactuation stuff, missing it, it is part of what attracted in the first place it is going to be a strong factor to have to detach from. My advice that has worked for me, I started to notice more other women and that cumulated in time to today, where I see my "ex" everywhere. Not because my "type" has just fallen from the heavens, but it is because I believe, I started more to look, got out of the depression that locked my focus on not really "her" but the trap of the upset, the anger, the various other emotions of hurt that needed dealt with.

 i miss the old me


I understand this Yoke, this past year and a half has been quite a rate of change in my life, if I select the relationship end point as the start point. I was vulnerable at first, but I think that feeling itself is what forced me to change as much as I have done so. In a strange sort of way, I have accomplished so much because of being in that initial, scary, lonely, vulnerable place - it forced me to almost. You are not alone though Yoke, im here, a small army of members, yourself included btw - I know I have no knowledge of the "old Yoke" but since you have arrived here and we have shared, it has helped me too, the "todays Yoke". Then there is your therapist who is a positive, knowledgable and skilled source of support. Keep up with the rest of life, maybe try to expand a bit there too? Work, your goals, it helped me to work even though it was very difficult at first. It was important to live as normal life as possible even under those circumstances, sounds to me like you are doing this too, you are made of strong stuff, Yoke, even if it can be hard to self-identify as such based on the feelings and upset. That is where these assessment quizzes can be very helpful,

I recommend it when you get the chance. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/mood-self-assessment/

I will do it again in a weeks time to see what might have changed, I got today 3 for depression, 21 for anxiety.

before I go, I thought Id ask if you have decided to journal some of this? I have not really, but it would have helped to be able to reflect and notice improvements or temporary falterings. I often get asked questions here that are hard to answer because I cant remember stuff, it might help when you get over this that you might want to share these parts of how you did it, thats where the journal is handy. If you feel it might help Yoke, in the meantime, catch up with you later, got a lot of work this week but I will check back in. Yoke, keep going with the good progress you are doing really well im here for you, we all are - Cromwell.
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