Why is aspd not being diagnosed

[SadtimesAZ]

I guess it has to do with who initiates the diagnosis? I've read so many posts from people all over the world describing their bpd ex as purely evil, lying, manipulative etc which are aspd traits over bpd. I've seen where aspd is a "male" disorder while bpd is a "female" disorder but clearly neither is gender specific. My ex wife is purely evil, her own mother who abused her relentlessly as a child claimed she was possessed by demons (religious zealot bpd mother herself). My ex has made our son completely miserable over the last 3 years now through 3 divorce proceedings. I agreed to reconcile twice knowing better and then she dropped the bomb and took him and it's been 16 months of hell dealing with the courts. And this is in Arizona which is supposed to be a no fault state, but of course I wouldn't agree to only see my son every other weekend so here we are a year deep into the third divorce in a state that doesn't have any laws about mentally ill parents or care about the child's wishes. Basically as long as she doesn't kill our son she can do whatever she wants. Even with a well documented history of domestic violence among the maternal family. The best part is I'm not a psychologist so I don't have any right to explain her mental health issues to the court "professionals" even though I figured out the diagnosis 6 months prior to it being diagnosed and have over 2 years of documenting everything that has happened, including a suicide attempt. It's amazing.

[ForeverDad]

Many here who have divorced with children never got a diagnosis.  My impression has been that family courts and those around the courts are reluctant to make a diagnosis.  I was in and out of family court from 2005 to 2013 and no one cared to seek a diagnosis.  And no one listened to me when I tried to Play Doctor.

Partly the reason is that even with a diagnosis, it still remains to be determined to what extent the children are impacted, whether anything rises to the level of being "actionable".  (As an example, think of being diagnosed alcoholic, is the person a dry alcoholic who stopped drinking, or is the person one who avoids exposing the children to a drunk parent, or is the person driving drunk with the kids - something that is actionable.)  The general consensus is that it takes an in depth evaluation of the family dynamic, the family members and their relationships.  The process is called a Custody Evaluation.

So best to do what the court and professionals do... look at the documented poor behaviors, especially regarding the parenting aspects which are the greater concern.  So our collective task is to document the poor behaviors (recording incidents and details with logs, calendars, diaries, etc).  Saying "he always..." or "she always..." is generally too vague and viewed as hearsay.

[SadtimesAZ]

We went through an evaluation and they refused to do an in depth investigation even though I provided over 40 law enforcement reports to the evaluator. Mom even admitted things that she had lied to the judge about. Even with a documented history of child abuse in her family and school records indicating our son was doing worse in school with mom they still won't listen. Mom is a full blown blame shifter and manipulator, learned from her own mother. Bpd/did/amphetamine use and alcohol use disorders all diagnosed and none in remission as she claims. I even have court records from my step d being removed from her custody which they never told me about, I found out when I did my own investigations into her family background. MGM was married 3 times before my ex was 10 years old, blameless in all her failed marriages. The level of pure psychopathy in the family is off the charts. I've documented everything over three years now with no positive outcome for our son.

[kells76]

Hi SadtimesAZ, welcome to the group 

I wouldn't agree to only see my son every other weekend

Yes. And your son needs you big time, so 

My ex has made our son completely miserable over the last 3 years now through 3 divorce proceedings.

I may have missed something, but is this the 3rd divorce between YOU and her, or her and... other(s)?

I've documented everything over three years now with no positive outcome for our son.

Your situation sounds understandably frustrating. It's like, you're doing everything you're supposed to do, but hitting a wall at every turn. I'd be pretty irate.

So you didn't settle for EOW with your son. What's the schedule right now?

Did/do you have a lawyer? Counselor for yourself?

Feel free to share whatever you're comfortable with about your situation. We're here to understand and hopefully help you come up with some jiu-jitsu to get out of the logjam and into a better path for you and your son.

kells76

[SadtimesAZ]

Yes it's 3 divorce proceedings for one marriage. She left 02/17 filed 04/17, we reconciled 08/17. I filed 03/18 but dismissed it and then she took off with our son 05/18 and filed again 07/18. I was given primary by the judge during the first divorce and it was basically 50/50 but she didn't like that, she lost as far as she was concerned and suddenly wanted to reconcile "for our son" yeah right. I found out about a bunch of illegal things she had done and asked her to move out so she snatched our son and left, wouldn't bring him back unless I dismissed my divorce. She brought him back then took off again and filed the third divorce and lied to the judge when we went to court, said she was primary and I was abusive (for asking her to leave my home). The new judge didn't even look at my paperwork, or hers which contradicted each other mine was accurate, dates previous proceedings etc and hers was perjured. Sent us to mediation which she refused to agree to anything, then to an evaluator who she lied to. She was even accused of child abuse by her own daughter during the process which she never informed the evaluator about. It's ridiculous. The divorce trial was continued and our next hearing is a week out. It's a long complicated story but no one has cared about her mental health problems or the fact she has lied constantly.

[worriedStepmom]

A good friend of mine has an ex with diagnosed NPD.  Their divorce was final last year and they've been in court pretty much since then fighting over custody.  It's taken the judge a while to figure out what was going on, but he seems to get it now.

How old is your son?  Is your son in counseling?

My friend's best evidence has been the kids' therapist.  The T has seen all of her kids for almost 18 months now, and has met with both parents multiple times.  The T recommended that NPDdad get supervised visitation because of the amount of emotional trauma he has inflicted on the kids and the amount of alienation he has tried.

How are you doing at documentation?  That can be key to presenting your case so that the judge understands.

[SadtimesAZ]

Here's the thing about ASPD/BPD. My ex and her mother have a long history of committing fraud along with child abuse. I figured out it was bpd over 2 years ago and she basically just told a shrink that she had bpd and drug problems after I asked the court for mental evals to be done. So she was able to manipulate the doctors without any involvement by myself. I didn't really consider the ASPD diagnosis even though I had looked into it. Her d16 ended up being labeled with sociopathic tendencies by doctors during a hospitalization, that's 3 generations showing cluster b pd's. As we all know pd's are genetic/environmental/or brain injury induced. MGM raised mom and the d16, very bad home environment for both. No indicators prior to the MGM of mental illness in the family, relationships were stable etc. MGM moved through relationships constantly since my wife was a child, none lasted more than 5 years. MGM is a munchausen mom, according to my ex she would beat her over anything then take her to doctors trying to figure out why she had behavioral problems. Ex was diagnosed with adhd at 8 and put on adderall which led to a meth problem by 16. Exes D was born drug exposed and MGM was able to get custody, fast forward D15 is using and suffering from SI like her mom and aunt. Yet no one has a clear understanding because everyone denies having pd's to begin with. It's literally insane.

[SadtimesAZ]

Hey worried, my ex and the MGM constantly accuse me of npd, that's their go to for anyone who doesn't agree with them, you must be a narc because you only want it your way even though I was a stay at home dad for over a year because she wanted to work. Every parenting plan was filed as equal time by myself, she wouldn't budge on EOW, even after it was discovered by the judge that I was not only the residential parent but also responsible for schooling with joint decision making prior to her filing for divorce this time. "Do you think she has tried to mislead the court?" Wtf did I bring 50 exhibits in for including all his school records to show she lied. It's only been another year now, plenty of time to throw a childs life off course. And yes his therapist said she shows attachment issues, attachment based parental alienation by narc/borderline, which the court evaluator says doesn't exist.

[SadtimesAZ]

Hey worried, my ex and the MGM constantly accuse me of npd, that's their go to for anyone who doesn't agree with them, you must be a narc because you only want it your way even though I was a stay at home dad for over a year because she wanted to work. Every parenting plan was filed as equal time by myself, she wouldn't budge on EOW, even after it was discovered by the judge that I was not only the residential parent but also responsible for schooling with joint decision making prior to her filing for divorce this time. "Do you think she has tried to mislead the court?" Wtf did I bring 50 exhibits in for including all his school records to show she lied. It's only been another year now, plenty of time to throw a childs life off course. And yes his therapist said she shows attachment issues, attachment based parental alienation by narc/borderline, which the court evaluator says doesn't exist.