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Author Topic: I think I’m beyond help right now. I’ve never been so low - Part 5  (Read 213 times)
RomanticFool
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« on: September 11, 2019, 03:24:43 PM »

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.You have remarked that she was a terrible person, yet you wish you at gone to the movies with her?  How do you reconcile those thoughts?

In all honesty I don’t think she’s a terrible person. I think she’s a wonderful person in so many ways. I just think she is a disaster for someone like me. Someone who became attached to her very quickly and who absolutely adored her from the beginning and carried on adoring her long after I was persona non grata. I am angry at her because she has stopped loving me and caring, if she ever did. I am angry because I trusted her. I always believed we would turn things around between us. If I could get out of my marriage in a healthy way and be with her then she would see my love properly. How naive is that? We were engaged in push-me-pull-you activity. I wish I’d been able to turn it around. Give her what she needed so she could carry on loving me. Perhaps the person I’m the most angry with is myself.
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 03:31:37 PM »

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. _____ I realize that I have been running from fire to fire to avoid my own feelings of pain and I want to affect my own rescue before I go down again   

The irony is during our last argument I told her that she is making herself out to be the victim. That’s when she went crazy at me and said she was no victim and I’m an abuser worse than Epstein. I know me calling her a victim illicited the same reaction I’ve had on here. In so many ways her and I are alike. That’s why I’m so attached to her, I understand her. I want her. If I’d made the right moves I could still be with her...but in my heart of hearts I know long term it would never have worked.
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 03:57:06 PM »

RF, there is a lot of distortion in depressive thinking. Not sure why you are so adamant against getting a med evaluation or going to the ED? Depression is about, what David Burns MD calls the 10 forms of twisted thinking.

Here is another way to look at your situation.

Remember the discussions about affairs being 3 legged stools we had 2 years ago? Each partner in an affair provides some aspect of a relationship, but no partner provides it all. In this situation, you become dependent on having multiple partners. Remove one and it all crashes down.



Do you see that has happened again?  Your wife was the grounded/stable leg. BPD girl provided the fantasy sex that wife didn't give you.

Fast forward

AA girl provided you the frequency of sex that the BPD didn't give you.

You could not bring yourself to losing any part of he portfolio as no one relationship stood on its own merit.

You were able to sustain the portfolio with BPD girl for a while as it didn't interfere with your home life. There was a Chinese wall that separated wife and gf.  They both provided one leg, but neither of them could be "that girl". There was no possible win here.

Same with he AA girl. When you took on AA girl, there was no wall.  Neither your wife nor the AA girl were going to be part of a love triangle. You couldn't make a solid commitment to either - and they gave you 6 months to make that choice - but you couldn't. You didn't get the divorce  AA girl insisted on. You didn't tell you wife you would drop the AA girl and rebuild the marriage. You didn't tell either of them to exit. You tried to hold on to both is some partial way. You even kept BPD girl in the portfolio as a "therapist".

It blew up. They made the decision for you. This happens all the time in these situations. Now they are both resentful and done... This is what was inevitable.

In all honesty I don’t think she’s a terrible person. I think she’s a wonderful person in so many ways.

You talk about what a monster she is - how no relationship with the healthiest man on earth would work - that you should call the police.

Yet, you would go back in a minute.

Why?

You are not mad at her for who she is. That's all twisted depressive thinking. You liked that leg of the stool.  You are furious that she is leaving and leaving with vengeance.

You wanted the BPD girl, to rise to be both legs of the stool - the role your wife played and the role she played rolled up in one. It was an impossible feat, but you pushed and pushed until it broke.

You wanted the AA girl, to rise be both legs of the stool - the role your wife played and the role she played rolled up in one. It was also an impossible feat, and you hedged until it broke.  This breakup is upsetting because two legs are crashing down. You are even mad at her for what happened between you and your wife.  You are mad that your wife is moving on.

This was also inevitable.

In both cases, this is what was happening in the big picture view. You are getting into situations that, no matter who the players are, inevitably will blow  up.

And now your focus is on AA girls behavior since she decided you were broken, that she felt use, lied to, manipulated... and has gone into full on revenge mode.

If I’d made the right moves I could still be with her...but in my heart of hearts I know long term it would never have worked.

If it wasn't for the stool and the whole portfolio thing and you were looking for a complete relationship from one person, you probably would have passed on this relationship after 90 - 120 days because it didn't meet your full needs.

This is what we worked with you on for a year. Understanding the artificial dynamics of affairs.

You still don't see it. Taking on a relationship partner primarily for one domension of a relationship will inevitably fail.



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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 03:58:42 PM »

Can you just check the box?  Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)

          _____ I realize that I have been running from fire to fire to avoid my own feelings of pain and I want to affect my own rescue before I go down again

_____  I am an innocent victim of a terrible injustice at the hand of others and need victim recovery care

Following up on Formfliers qustion...
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2019, 05:28:02 PM »

Excerpt
.  You could not bring yourself to losing any part of he portfolio as no one relationship stood on its own merit.       

I remember the stool analogy very well. I wanted to be with the A.A. girl from the get go. The minute I met her my marriage was doomed. I felt guilt at letting my wife down and when she cried I couldn’t bear it. I should have walked away from my marriage then and dealt with what was coming. It would have been more honest and it would have allowed me to see the reality of the A.A. woman much quicker. I spent the entirety of the time I was with my wife wanting to be with the A.A. woman. It was deeply dishonest and we even went to Verona together (my wife and I during his time). I should have had the courage to leave then. However, guilt played a huge part and also I started to see some red flags in A.A. woman’s behaviour and I wanted to make sure I was doing the correct thing. The stool analogy was more true with the first affair partner. The second one I’d have been happy to be with. However, what stopped me from moving out was an instinct about the A.A. woman’s character. The A.A. girl never insisted on a divorce. She just wanted me to be with her. The bit about them both being resentful and done is undeniably true.

I’m not mad that my wife is moving on. I am mad at the A.A. woman for not caring because it’s obvious she never really cared about me. I’ve been a fool. Somebody who really loved me would have stayed. A told her we would be together and we would have been. I would not take her back. You are wrong about that. I want her but I would not take her. There’s been too much damage and I’d never believe she cared. I need a fresh start. I wanted the AA girl to love me and be with me. I didn’t want her to be anything other than what she presented initially. She used to ask me regularly if we could get married in the future. I told her I’d marry her in a heartbeat and I would have if she had waited and actually loved me. I would have wanted a full one on one r/s with the A.A. woman. She sabotaged it as her desires/needs changed during her first year of sobriety. I believe this would have happened even if I’d been living with her. She has left every r/s she’s ever been in and she would’ve left me too whatever I did. Of course I see it. As I said, I wish I’d had the courage to be solely with the A.A. woman but I felt guilty about my wife and was worried I’d be financially screwed. The A.A. woman wouldn’t have let me stay there for any length of time without paying rent. It would have taken a long time to sort my flat out.

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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2019, 05:31:51 PM »

Excerpt
. _x__ I realize that I have been running from fire to fire to avoid my own feelings of pain and I want to affect my own rescue before I go down again

_____  I am an innocent victim of a terrible injustice at the hand of others and need victim recovery care
       
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2019, 04:50:18 AM »

Tuesdays and Thursdays are tough days for me because I know the ex works from home. While the intensity is lessening the pain is still there.

Excerpt
RF, there is a lot of distortion in depressive thinking. Not sure why you are so adamant against getting a med evaluation or going to the ED? Depression is about, what David Burns MD calls the 10 forms of twisted thinking.

I'm not adamant against medication. I have a doctor's appointment on 30th September (it currently takes a month to get an appointment here due to the lack of funding by years of right wing government killing the system) but when I go I will tell him all about my mental health. I just think once I'm through the grief the cycle things may get easier. Exercise helps enormously but is also triggering left with my own head for too long. Everywhere I go there are triggers. She had such a huge effect on my life as we had all the same aspirations: fitness, cinema, theatre, books, science, holidays, coffee shops, walking in the park. I miss those times so bad. I haven't been able to cry properly. I've just been numb with pain. Today I feel like crying. Perhaps that's not 'manning up' but I don't care. I'm not an alpha male and I don't want to be. They are the ones who usually do something drastic because they won't ask for help.

You all ask me why I keep focusing on the ex rather than myself. It's simple, I just want to understand what makes her tick. To quote Roy Batty in Blade Runner I have, "Questions, questions, questions..."

So here's the thing. Please indulge me in a little fantasy for a few minutes. Dangerous I know but this question is killing me and making me feel terrible. Imagine a world in which I wasn't married. In fact imagine that the ex and I met after I had undergone extensive therapy and had learnt all of the skills on this site, from validation, to not reacting emotionally to provocation, that my thinking was not distorted from depression and that I was on this higher emotional level. Imagine that I now understand that going into crazy love and sex addictive behaviour does not make for a happy r/s and I am more circumspect and careful  

I'm sitting in the church hall before the AA meeting, playing piano and minding my own business and this beautiful lady comes over and gets my attention. Let's say that she is a year sober instead of one month ie at the point she is now. Over a period of time we get to know each other a little and still decide to embark on an albeit ill-advised relationship but things go a bit slower at the beginning because I put boundaries down. She is essentially still the same person. What do you think would have happened? This is a serious question.

I read the 10 forms of twisted thinking. Ironically I was always telling my ex she never saw the grey areas. I also told her that she was a perfectionist and often found fault with herself unnecessarily. For myself, I'm not usually black and white unless I'm in deep pain. I tried not to be with her. I loved her and was willing to accept her faults, until they became pathological and sabotaged everything. The overgeneralisation I have been guilty of in the past, especially in relationships. i don't normally do the mental filter. I don't see myself as a perfectionist. I don't disqualify the positive. She was always complimentary around my appearance. That's one area that she only transgressed once with her bile. Jumping to conclusions I do all the time. And I have caused the self fulfilling prophecy as she has now pushed me away and most likely found somebody new. This is the source of my greatest pain though to be fair to myself, in the last few weeks of the r/s she was constantly threatening to meet other "options" as she put it. This is one of the main reasons I pushed her away in the end. The jealousy was killing me. It is also one of my main sources of resentment as she was one of the most jealous people I'd ever met and I never gave her reason to be jealous of me and always reassured her. She was a terror with the threats of meeting others in order to trigger me. It is one of the most painful areas I have experienced and to be honest, is a boundary that I would never accept in any r/s. In future, I'm gone at the first threat of that nature. A r/s cannot exist under that threat. Magnification and minimising I have done. My head tells me I'll never meet anybody else and this woman is too good for me. I absolutely did emotional reasoning in this r/s in response to her more hurtful behaviours. The day she cycled past me without stopping was a case in point as I burst into tears and felt that the r/s was over. To be fair most of my friends said they would feel the same if their loved one was more interested in going swimming than stopping and talking. For me that was the beginning of the end. I've done lots of should statements in the past but try not to do that now. In the case of my ex my regrets and shoulds have been off the scale. I try not to label people, though I have done that to my ex as a way of dealing with rejection and the agony of losing her. The pain is almost physical. Like getting off heroin. I feel guitly for my ex's choices. I have personalised her rejection of me...well because she is rejecting our wonderful times together and the r/s seemed to mean much more to me than it did to her. I keep wondering if she'll ever come back and feel guilty that I messed everything up. I can even start to tell myself that I deserved to be punched. But that is a victim mentality, which is why I argued so strongly against that yesterday.

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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2019, 11:13:50 AM »

You really want the truth?  The perfect world.  You were single and all better...

I believe if you had TRULY done intensive therapy, had looked at how you attached too quickly to woman, had addressed that you wanted a respectful and warm love rather than an initial sexual “glue” that would NOT hold over time, and understood empathy (in you and others) and codependency- meaning you really developed your OWN feelings ... well RF, you have may thought she was physically beautiful.  You may have asked her for a date.  Or two.  You may have seen you shared common interests.

HOWEVER... if she had exhibited the emotional instability and lashing out you described during the first months?  And you had done YOUR WORK and were healthy?  You would have said, “sorry, ma’am... been there, done that... NOT doing this again”.  You would have kindly exited, without drama... because you knew this would be a tornado that would hurl you up and smash you down. 

And you would have been OK Exiting, because there would be no fear in flying solo for a bit.  A confident person who continues a journey toward mental health (it’s not one and done) knows he’ll come upon other healthy people.  He doesn’t have to settle.

This much I do believe.  She would have fallen straight OFF that pedestal where YOU placed her.  With that erratic and abusive behavior.  If you had played no role in provocation.  And that, my friend is the million dollar question.

True that.  Do you believe me?

Gems
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2019, 11:21:15 AM »

Hey RomanticFool. I’m curious, what are you looking for on these forums?
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2019, 12:14:00 PM »

Quote from:  Romantic Fool
I keep wondering if she'll ever come back and feel guilty that I messed everything up. I can even start to tell myself that I deserved to be punched. But that is a victim mentality, which is why I argued so strongly against that yesterday.
I am not sure how much value there is to use words like deserve in relationships like this.  

Neither one of you 'deserve' what happened.  You both acted in ways that caused things to develop and further evolve into the mess that resulted.

Looking at your behaviors, *without* the cushion of her 'dysfunction' to defend yourself is not the path to being a victim.  It is the path to freedom from your own if you put the work into recovery.  

Hiding from the reality of your own actions and how you respond to others when you are in a relationship is what is keeping you stuck and going back for 3 rounds with affair partners RF.

Work with us.
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2019, 01:09:52 PM »

Gems,

That is exactly what I think myself. A healthier version of me would not want to put myself in the firing line to be punched. I think my low self esteem always tells me that I’ll never find a woman as beautiful, intelligent and fun as this again. She’s perfect for me etc etc. That’s the narrative I have to quell. She has the worst temper I’ve ever experienced from anybody. The first time she hit me my instinct was to walk away but she begged me to stay. She later called my response to her violence abuse. I don’t want all this drama. I get enough of that in my work. I want a stable relationship with somebody wonderful. Not chaos and madness. I’m too old for this sh|t as the saying goes!

Harri,

I don’t want to hide from my own actions or behaviour. I want to work on myself. As Gems said I think ultimately the only solution in this situation would have been to walk away. That doesn’t mean I excuse my part in it, but it does mean that I am starting to understand that a healthier version of myself would not have saved the day, but would have walked away knowing it was the right thing to do. That gives me some solace because it was my instinct at the time, I just felt sorry for her. Oh and was head over hills in love with her, let’s not forget that bit...
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2019, 01:14:14 PM »

Elfguy,

I’m looking for help, solace, sanctuary from the horror, a place to vent, a place to find compassion, a place to get healthy.
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2019, 01:29:13 PM »

Elfguy,

I’m looking for help, solace, sanctuary from the horror, a place to vent, a place to find compassion, a place to get healthy.

RF

I'm glad you want to get healthy and that you want our help to do so.

I'm hoping you understand that getting healthy will involve looking at yourself in ways that are uncomfortable and perhaps you will "feel attacked". 

Do you have ideas on how we can present the information to you that we see you needing?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2019, 01:42:38 PM »

FF,

My first ex affair partner, who is now a friend, said to me today that she thinks I exhibit my worst traits in personal relationships. This over reactivity and taking everything personally is my big issue. I have a very thin skin when I’m hurting and when I feel hard done by. I think the A.A. woman meant so much to me so quickly because I wanted her to be the big love of my life. It would have been so perfect and i would have landed on my feet. Out of all the chaos of these messed up relationships I would have found gold with her.

The issue I have struggled with the most is feeling outraged at the way I have been treated. I was looking for some kind of validation that it wasn’t all me as my ex has stated. That I’m the problem and she is intrinsically healthy and righteous. My sense of overwhelming grief and loss has compounded these feelings and I have been in deep deep pain. The reason I’ve often complained of being attacked is there has been a great deal of tough love given to me and when I’m feeling hurt and upset it feels like an attack. Furthermore I often feel that the tone taken with other souls in pain is a lot gentler. Perhaps I’m doing emotional thinking but that has been the reason for my reactivity which comes from a place of pain.
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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2019, 02:12:17 PM »


The issue I have struggled with the most is feeling outraged at the way I have been treated. I was looking for some kind of validation that it wasn’t all me as my ex has stated. 

Stick with me here.  Take deep breath and work with rational mind for a bit.

It wasn't all you.  It wasn't all her.  That's for the relationship.  Both of you had "votes".

For you own life...your own decisions.  You are 100% responsible.  Even if you "outsource" part of your life to someone else, you are responsible for that decision and the results that come with it.

You are the only vote for your life.

Another big breath.  At some point you are going to need to feel a similar level of outrage at yourself, regardless of other people being better or worse. 

That intensity will provide fuel for change and provide motivation to "not go there again"...when the temptation of old patterns comes.

Would it help if I shared a moral failing that was crushing to my relationship...how I finally owned and moved past it?

As you can imagine...not my favorite subject.  Yet it might help.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2019, 03:18:26 PM »

FF,

I’ve tucked the top box twice now. Check back. I put an x next to the top one.
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2019, 03:25:11 PM »

FF,

I guess I can’t be as angry at myself in this instance for two reasons: 1. The pain at the moment is so great at not seeing her that I would go to a very dark place again to take full responsibility for everything that happened. 2. How can I be responsible for somebody else’s pathology? Can I really be angry at myself for staying in a r/s with somebody who was so wonderful at the beginning? Can I really be angry at myself for not abandoning her when she begged me to stay after she hit me? Can I really be angry at myself for falling in love? I don’t want to be angry with myself. Life is already unbearable. It will set me over the edge.

The best I can do at the moment is radical acceptance of my tumultuous situation. By all means share your story. I’d like to hear your wisdom.
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2019, 03:54:00 PM »

Quote from:  Romantic Fool
2. How can I be responsible for somebody else’s pathology? Can I really be angry at myself for staying in a r/s with somebody who was so wonderful at the beginning? Can I really be angry at myself for not abandoning her when she begged me to stay after she hit me? Can I really be angry at myself for falling in love? I don’t want to be angry with myself. Life is already unbearable. It will set me over the edge.

Hi RF.  No one is saying this is what you need to do.  We are asking you to be responsible for, to use your own word, your own pathology, to look at why you missed red flags and chose to get into a relationship with a very new member to AA, to look at why you chose to stay in a relationship with violence, to look at why you have a history of falling in love with women who are not healthy, to look at why you are attracted to these types of relationship starting with your wife through all of your affair partners.

We are not asking you to be angry with yourself.  We are asking you to learn to love yourself, and work to change those parts of you that are damaged.
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2019, 04:05:04 PM »

Hi RF, hang in there.  For me, the best part of accepting my part in my situation (which got really violent) is that there is freedom in that acceptance.  I don't have to make the same mistakes again, I don't have to accept unacceptable behavior.  I was with my ex for over 2 years and the last 6 months, he blamed me for a lot of things that simply weren't my fault.  I can't make someone else see their faults, but when I do start dating again, I can look for someone who is healthier and has more insight.  We had a lot of wonderful times, but in the end he simply wasn't the person for me.  That's ok.  I can have both good and bad times with someone and recognize that they are not good or bad, they are just not healthy for me.  I still had those good times and there will plenty more good times in my future, just not with my ex.  Don't get clouded by your grief, there's a lot of life to live.
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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2019, 05:36:32 PM »

Excerpt
At some point you are going to need to feel a similar level of outrage at yourself, regardless of other people being better or worse.

That intensity will provide fuel for change and provide motivation to "not go there again"...when the temptation of old patterns comes.

Harri, this is what I was commenting on from Form Flier. I'm not sure being outraged at myself going to accomplish anything other than more pain.

Excerpt
We are asking you to be responsible for, to use your own word, your own pathology, to look at why you missed red flags and chose to get into a relationship with a very new member to AA, to look at why you chose to stay in a relationship with violence, to look at why you have a history of falling in love with women who are not healthy, to look at why you are attracted to these types of relationship starting with your wife through all of your affair partners.

Well, it was the first AA r/s I'd had in 20 years. I knew I shouldn't be doing it but I found her irresistibly attractive and she kept coming to me at the piano. She seemed so sweet and lovely. I was attracted to her to such a degree that I couldn't turn my back on her and walk away. If you believe in love at first sight, which I suspect no healthy person does, this was it. I'd have stayed with her if she'd torched my house and set blew my car up. Unconditional love is what I felt. Discuss...

Excerpt
We are not asking you to be angry with yourself.  We are asking you to learn to love yourself, and work to change those parts of you that are damaged.

My entire life I've had an emptiness and yearning for love. It's the only thing that makes the constant yearning stop. I feel like crying as I write this.
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2019, 05:41:08 PM »

Excerpt
For me, the best part of accepting my part in my situation (which got really violent) is that there is freedom in that acceptance.  I don't have to make the same mistakes again, I don't have to accept unacceptable behavior.  I was with my ex for over 2 years and the last 6 months, he blamed me for a lot of things that simply weren't my fault.  I can't make someone else see their faults, but when I do start dating again, I can look for someone who is healthier and has more insight.  We had a lot of wonderful times, but in the end he simply wasn't the person for me.  That's ok.  I can have both good and bad times with someone and recognize that they are not good or bad, they are just not healthy for me.  I still had those good times and there will plenty more good times in my future, just not with my ex.  Don't get clouded by your grief, there's a lot of life to live.

I honestly believe if I'd met somebody healthy non of my issues would have surfaced. I think I am on here because of the women I chose. Not to blame them because I engaged in push/pull and and love avoidant behaviour as well as obsessive, addictive and damaging behaviours. However, if I'd met somebody who didn't physically attack me for standing up to them, or didn't sabotage evenings out and paint me black, it would not have brought out the worst in me. I will be alot more careful in any next r/s. I'll set boundaries and avoid addictive sexual and emotional behaviour. Easy does it as they. In the meantime I'll continue to work on myself and get to the heart of my malady as far as relationships are concerned.
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2019, 07:31:40 PM »

Harri, this is what I was commenting on from Form Flier. I'm not sure being outraged at myself going to accomplish anything other than more pain.


The exact word is not what matters.  The larger point is that whatever word you are using to describe someone else....you should be examined and hold yourself to that same standard.

Spend more time judging and correcting yourself...than someone else. 

I'll put my story together and share it soon.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2019, 08:54:21 PM »

RF, I feel like you are taking 1 step forward then 2 steps back.  No healthy woman would ever get involved with a man who is still married, and especially not one who is living with another woman.  It's not just who you choose, it's how you are living your life and your values.
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« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2019, 09:44:14 PM »

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Harri, this is what I was commenting on from Form Flier. I'm not sure being outraged at myself going to accomplish anything other than more pain.
I know what you were referring to. 

Excerpt
Well, it was the first AA r/s I'd had in 20 years. I knew I shouldn't be doing it but I found her irresistibly attractive and she kept coming to me at the piano. She seemed so sweet and lovely. I was attracted to her to such a degree that I couldn't turn my back on her and walk away. If you believe in love at first sight, which I suspect no healthy person does, this was it. I'd have stayed with her if she'd torched my house and set blew my car up. Unconditional love is what I felt. Discuss...
There is not much here for *me* to discuss.  I think you should be the one doing it RF.  It is related to this I think: 
Excerpt
My entire life I've had an emptiness and yearning for love. It's the only thing that makes the constant yearning stop. I feel like crying as I write this.
Dig in and lets work on it.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2019, 10:05:35 PM »

Hey RF-

I feel compelled to point something important out for you.  You stated above that you “honestly believe if you’d met somebody healthy none of your issues would have surfaced...”

This is a slippery statement... If we’re honest, Many of us entered and stayed in BPD relationships because we were already wounded in some way.  Most of us just didn’t know it.  I’m in that camp.  GOD knows, I know it now...

So here’s the thing, RF.  If you assume that all your issues and problems will be solved by simply meeting a “healthy” woman, I fear you are mistaken and will suffer.  You’ve acknowledged your attachment style may not be the healthiest.  It appears you’re most comfortable diving all in head first.  “Healthy” relationships can begin slowly, can even start out feeling more as friends... and because of who YOU are (keeping in mind I only know you from here), you could interpret this as complete rejection.  There may be room for distrust and jumping to conclusions on your part (there’s another man).  A new woman “could” feel smothered, where you’re simply looking for closeness.

I’m NOT trying to hurt you;  I hope you know that.  So in order for you to really find the love you want and deserve with a wonderful woman, it is vital that you develop a stronger sense of yourself in relationships.  Heal those wounds that you’ve carried.  You ARE beginning to identify what the wounds are.

I don’t often address the 19-year relationship I had with my exH, except to say the marriage ended the night he threw me across the room.  I did know that I twisted myself inside out trying to appease his ever changing needs, to keep him “happy”.  I did NOT know I was emotionally abused all those years.  And when therapists (4 of them) tried to convince me of that, I refused to acknowledge the abuse.  Until last year.  I left the marriage in 2011.  I carried those wounds straight into my relationship with my uBPDbf.  And finally, FINALLY... I have healed those wounds.  As well as the wounds and Codependency from my youth. 

So RF, it CAN be done.  I told myself... I do NOT have to feel like this.  And I believed me.  Turns out I was telling myself the truth.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2019, 08:00:14 AM »


Hey RF...here is a moral failing that I "justified" for a long time and was hard for me to correct.

Brief history.  Paranoia was central element of my wife's BPDish behavior.  (showed up after a natural disaster)  She believed I was doing all kinds of things with tons of women.  I was an active duty Naval Officer at the time (profession where telling the truth is assumed), plus I was raised with a "country farm mentality" (no contracts..you shake on it and it's done).  I say all this so you can see I was a very prideful guy about "my word".

So...the accusations and questions starting coming.  I wasn't allowed to sleep much.  Had a really bad time for a long time.  I would prove my wife's theories wrong (which actually invalidated her and made it worse).

My frustration and resentment grew.  I started doing lots of thinking about what I "deserved".

I realized I was spending way too much time on "theories and accusations".  So I figured I "deserved" a shortcut.  

Let's say I was asked about a new nurse that showed up at church.   Insert various theories about why I parked close to her.

Rather than deal with the issue head on I said "I don't know anything about that..."and then stonewalled.

Seeing that it "got me out of it" (at least for the moment) I started using similar answers to most of my wife's "questions".  

There was a problem....they weren't "true"/certainly lacked the candor I was raised to use.  My wife found out that I actually had been introduced to the nurse and actually did know something abou it.

Now my paranoid wife had actual proof that I was "lying about women".

Use your imagination...it didn't go well.  I didn't apologize....after all..I didn't "deserve" the treatment I was getting.

I justified.  Not enough sleep, you asked too fast, I felt bad, you should xyz (you get the point..I JADED)

Situation got worse even though I might be "right" from a certain Point of View.

Well...my pastor confronted me when I started "explaining" my actions to him.  He pushed me to see not only what I was doing wrong..but why.  I thought telling the truth was going to be harder.

The truth was "I'm scared to answer your question."  or  "I don't feel comfortable answering right now."  (you get the picture)

Turns out my lies made the situation much worse that if "I'd been honest".

Plus...now there was no way to erase "the truth" that was now in my wife's mind, that I really was dishonest.  (pause a minute and consider if that helped or hurt her "paranoia")

Until I got away from all the "justifications" and focused on me, my morals and that I wasn't telling the truth...and really "felt" that.  I wasn't going to change.  I became "mad" and "disappointed" in myself because there was simply no way to escape the "fact" that I had made the situation much worse by walking away from the morals I knew were right.

Now I understand that even though it will be hard, I just lay it out there.  That's had a big part of reducing (almost eliminating) paranoia from my relationship.



Best,

FF
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