I've been trying to nip issues in the bud before they bloom

[Cat Familiar]

I've been trying to nip little issues in the bud before they have a chance to bloom. It's been working well and there hasn't been a conflict for weeks.  

I had an opportunity last night when we were cooking together. (Amazing that we're now doing that, but that's a side issue.)

As he was plating the food from the stove, I brought over some garnishes I had chopped. He gave me an irritable and disgusted look along with a sigh.

In the past, I would have taken offense--"Hey, I'm just trying to help..." and things would have gone downhill from there.

I can surmise why he reacted the way he did. He regularly forgets to put the garnishes on the plate and we will often finish eating and then notice that we didn't use them. By me bringing them over to him, he could interpret that as a criticism. Of course it wasn't. I used to work in restaurants and it's just part of my nature, seeking to be helpful.

So what I said was to address the mood I thought he was feeling: "Did that irritate you that I brought it over?" He started explaining about how when he cooks, he gets into a rhythm, blah, blah, blah and then probably realized that sounded stupid, so then he said, "No."

I had put him into a double bind. If he acknowledged that he was irritated, it would have seemed incredibly petty. So he had to just let it go and keep moving on.
 

[formflier]

A method my P has been working on with me is to "hand an open door" to my wife that she can walk through that lets go of the conflict.

So..let's say there is a BPDish thing that I didn't bite on, yet it's obvious she was trying to hook me in or "point out" to me that I had some long list of faults (you get the picture).

Well...let that moment pass and then find another moment to be close and "be a little bit puzzle..just a little bit (with a hint of worry)"

"Hey...are we good?  I'm worried their was some tension earlier."

So...this gives a choice.  "Oh yeah..we're good." is the easy way to walk through the door.  Taking a long explanation about why we are not would sound petty or worse.

Note...this only works when it's obvious the moment of "not good" has passed.  This can help her "put it away."

Best,

FF 

[Cat Familiar]

Being a very direct person, I’ve had to learn new ways of dealing with my husband that are not natural or intuitive for me.

He comes from a family who bottles up, keeps things hidden, doesn’t say what they mean, plays victim, etc. In that context, my directness comes across as heavy handed.

So now, rather than tell him exactly what I think when he’s behaving in a less than optimal way, I create a circumstance where he can figure it out himself.

In the past, my directness just led to defensiveness on his part and escalation of the conflict.

The only way I’ve been able to see these times as a creative opportunity has been to let go of my backlog of resentment. Much easier said than done.

How I’ve managed to do this is to look at the big picture. My life is good. He’s very supportive of things I do, often for which he has no personal interest.

I was in a previous relationship with a very dysfunctional BPD/NPD/APD husband and I realized that I was carrying over some of that resentment from years past.

I also realize that my husband is trying to improve and I see positive steps: going to therapy, helping more around the house, cooking

[GaGrl]

The biggest change I've made in relationships has been to ask questions rather than make statements. If I'm info-gathering, I try to ask open-ended questions. If I'm trying to test a position or an assumption, I use closed-ended questions (yes or no, A or B).

[Cat Familiar]

A business mentor once told me, “The one who asks the questions controls the conversation.”

[secretgirl]

Omg thank you for posting this.. I'm new on this forum.. but it's always enlightening to see when BPD AND non's can make improvements in their relationships so that's great news ... I'm still not able to control my sensitivity/defensiveness yet. it's SUCH a hard journey for me... I know I have to work on myself too and be stronger for myself regardless but sometimes it's just HARD and I'm the one who wants to cry and have my partner be there sometimes , not always be there for them. Ive been reading a lot on codependency lately and trying to figure out how to be less codependent/reliant on my partners feelings and constantly trying to cheer them up.

[Notwendy]

Cat, you know we are sister wives 

I too have had to learn to not react to the little things. Trying to be helpful can appear to be a criticism. I'm also direct but my H comes from a family where everyone keeps things to themselves and then acts them out in a passive aggressive manner. I can see how they would "help" with the garnishes to actually say " you doofus, you forgot". But when I do it, it would be just to help.

I used to JADE but now, I just shrug it off. If I don't give these small things attention they don't escalate.

But helping me cook? LOL not there yet.

[Cat Familiar]

I know I have to work on myself too and be stronger for myself regardless but sometimes it's just HARD and I'm the one who wants to cry and have my partner be there sometimes , not always be there for them. Ive been reading a lot on codependency lately and trying to figure out how to be less codependent/reliant on my partners feelings and constantly trying to cheer them up.

I completely understand. Being around a loved one with BPD can be stressful. For that reason, we need to take good care of our physical and emotional health: getting good quality sleep, eating a healthy diet, spending time with supportive friends, having a trusted confidant—a therapist, minister, family member.

I too wanted to be a cheerleader and it was disappointing when I needed emotional support to not always find it within my relationship. But learning to support myself emotionally has given me tremendous strength and resiliency that I would not have found if I’d had that support externally.

It takes time to learn new patterns and healthy coexistence, rather than codependency.  

 
Cat

[formflier]

  but it's always enlightening to see when BPD AND non's can make improvements in their relationships so that's great news ...

Secretgirl

It's even better news because the non's can make improvements to the relationship even if the pwBPD doesn't want to.  The dynamic can be changed with consistent healthy responses.

Want to know more?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Cat, you know we are sister wives  

 

I too have had to learn to not react to the little things. Trying to be helpful can appear to be a criticism.

Being “helpful” comes automatically without thinking to me. So that puts me into a decision mode: do I try to be excessively mindful of every action, trying to discern if what I’m doing might be interpreted as criticism? Or do I just do me and clean up the mess afterwards?

Like you, Notwendy, I’ve learned to let these insignificant things go and they no longer blow up in my face.

There are certain triggers I’ve learned that my husband regularly has and those I avoid studiously. But when he’s feeling self doubt or insecurity, then there’s a multitude of things that will make him upset and it can be unpredictable.

In those times, I just remain mindful and let the chips fall where they may and figure that I’ll clean up the mess. If he’s not too triggered, humor works. Otherwise, sincerely asking about his feelings can give them expression while they’re still minimal. Distraction is another strategy.

It reminds me of what I do when training my horse. I have to be mindful of every step she takes. When she starts to step in the “wrong” direction or begins to change her pace to a tempo I don’t want, I have to make a correction at that moment. If I catch it in time, all goes well, much better than if I don’t, and it turns into a full blown issue.

[Cat Familiar]

It's even better news because the non's can make improvements to the relationship even if the pwBPD doesn't want to.  The dynamic can be changed with consistent healthy responses.

The most important thing I've learned is to "NOT MAKE THINGS WORSE". I didn't realize that I was even doing that. But when you deprive conflict of oxygen, it burns out more quickly.

With people who are dealing with BPD, it's inevitable that they are going to be less capable of bringing their best to a situation at times. Heck, we all are.

Knowing that, I recognize when my husband is in one of those moods and I will give him the space and time to process whatever is going on with him without adding any more stress from me. And the best part is that my participation is not needed. He will go through whatever it is and then return to interacting with me in a better state of mind.

In the past, I believed that we had to always talk out our "issues". Lots of times it wasn't our issue until I made it that way by inserting myself into it.

[secretgirl]

Hello Cat, thank you for your response... It is VERY stressful. This is my first (knowingly) bpd situation with a  partner. Thank you for the hugs. (HUGS BACK TO YOU!)
I am going to take your advice on not fueling the fire although as a Codep. I don't even think I mean to? I have this incessant sensitivity/ trying to fix things that is what causes our fights. and I think I am becoming more aware of it now but also hard for me to control b/c as a codep. my weakness (ive realized) is inconsistency... and because bpd's are inconsistent I'm often triggered myself.. ARGH! and then the cycle begins because I express how I feel and my ubpdbf is confused and then lashes out because he thinks hes not good enough because he doesn't know how to fix it? OMG what a cycle that's got to break at some point...
 

and FF, that is GREAT news and I guess what makes us non's good partners because we CAN control it.

 I would love to know more! Thank you,
SG.
 
 

[Notwendy]

Cat, I also learned that I can not change the way anyone thinks about me. I recall feeling badly that I was trying to be helpful but my H saw me as being critical. I would want to fix that, to somehow make him see that I wasn't being what he thought I was.

I realized that was futile. We can't control how someone thinks. I have to stay secure that- what someone thinks about me doesn't make it true. If I'm helpful- well that's the truth.

I agree that I needed to learn to leave the space for the other person to manage their own triggers, their own thoughts and feelings. Inserting myself into trying to fix this makes it worse. I've had to learn to not be emotionally reactive to these things. A work in progress...

[Cat Familiar]

I have this incessant sensitivity/ trying to fix things that is what causes our fights.

SG, have you seen this three minute video on ending conflict ?
 
 

[Cat Familiar]

We can't control how someone thinks. I have to stay secure that- what someone thinks about me doesn't make it true. If I'm helpful- well that's the truth.

Like you, Notwendy, I had to get to a place of acceptance that people are going to think what they think about me and that’s fine.

They are welcome to think I’m arrogant, controlling, selfish, pushy, self absorbed, thoughtless, uncaring, narcissistic, stupid, insufferable, boring, clueless, silly, petty, childish, or whatever other negative attribute they might come up with.

Once I discovered that it was none of my business and out of my control what they thought about me, it was incredibly freeing. 

[secretgirl]

Hi Cat, I just finished watching it! It reminds me of a book I read called "Talking to a loved one with BPD". It had the same SET communications. omg though, it's SO HARD to apply to real life situations.
ONE time I tried it and my ubpdbf even thought I was weird he's like "why are u acting all nice and weird? am I science project to you now?" LOL
omg.. sometimes I cant help but laugh to some of the things they say when they're reacting... it's either really mean or super funny.
It gets tough though when it is mean and it gets to the point where like "notWendy" said, all you can do is control your own actions/behaviors but man am I ever having a hard time doing this... I think my first step is to identify MY triggers, like the video said.

I will also start journaling... a wonderful user named "gemsforeyes" replied to my post and suggested it to me.
How do you calm yourself from a situ that has become hostile where you feel like becoming defensive? do u actually leave? or just clear your headspace ?

[Witz_End]

ONE time I tried it and my ubpdbf even thought I was weird he's like "why are u acting all nice and weird? am I science project to you now?" LOL

They can be very perceptive that things have changed, can't they?  Understanding why, though, is another matter.

I remember once years ago, before knowing about BPD, going through a period where I realized I needed to be more careful and precise in my communication.  It was something I was trying to help things.

She picked up on it quick, but her conclusion was that I was trying to manipulate her:  "when you speak carefully, you're trying to manipulate me."

Ummm... no.  I'm trying to speak carefully to avoid problems.  I'm trying something different to avoid things that have pissed you off.

How do you calm yourself from a situ that has become hostile where you feel like becoming defensive? do u actually leave? or just clear your headspace ?

I think it can be either and some situations may call for one and others call for the other.  Stepping away sometimes is needed for the non, but whether it works for the pwBPD as far as defusing or aggravating things is a bit of a hit and miss.

[secretgirl]

They can be very perceptive that things have changed, can't they?  Understanding why, though, is another matter.

I remember once years ago, before knowing about BPD, going through a period where I realized I needed to be more careful and precise in my communication.  It was something I was trying to help things.

She picked up on it quick, but her conclusion was that I was trying to manipulate her:  "when you speak carefully, you're trying to manipulate me."

Ummm... no.  I'm trying to speak carefully to avoid problems.  I'm trying something different to avoid things that have pissed you off.

I think it can be either and some situations may call for one and others call for the other.  Stepping away sometimes is needed for the non, but whether it works for the pwBPD as far as defusing or aggravating things is a bit of a hit and miss.

OMG YES! VERY perceptive except always at the wrong time/for the wrong things. LOL I think that's why half my arguments with my ubpdbf are usually about things like that like "oh you usually send me a photo at this time babe so why didn't you today?" ... like because I didn't feel like it? and every day is different for me? it's crazy to think sometimes how organized their schedules are or how we have to fit into a template so to speak. is this normal amongst bpds that you've found? It seems to be coming up a lot with my bf... poor guy... sometimes I actually have SO much sympathy because I can't imagine being THAT on edge ALL the time. I really try to be empathetic...

Yeah... that's what I'm worried about... whether or not the walking away will create MORE aggression. Sometimes when I tell him I'm not going to see him until "A+B are figured out" then he thinks I'm ditching altogether and I have to remind him that I'm still here... just sometimes takes me extra long to figure out why or whats going on.

[formflier]

Yeah... that's what I'm worried about... whether or not the walking away will create MORE aggression. 

It's very likely it will...in the short run.

Big breath and hang with me here.  When you "do something different" in an argument with a pwBPD, it's fair to say they won't like it because they are not "getting what they want out of the argument.

So...they want to "get you back in line".  They want you to "return to normal". 

So..what do they do?  They reach for their "relationship toolbox" and right there on top is "aggression".  It's worked for the consistently in the past, so they "go with what they know".   After all, why wouldn't you want to use a reliable tool? 

When that tool doesn't work they will "try harder" with same tool.  (that's the part that looks like "more aggression")

Very important that you not give in here, because if you do...it "teaches them" that their dysfunctional tools work...so guess what they will try next time.

However, if you consistently don't give in, eventually they will "try another tool" which is where change can come from, even if they don't want it.

What do you think?

Best,

FF

[Witz_End]

secretgirl... I think a lot depends on what you mean by walking away and, importantly, how* you walk away.  The how may also be driven by the why.

From one angle, you could say that what FF is saying is an outmaneuvering manipulation designed to modify *their* behavior... ie get the behavioral result *we* want.  Of course, this is in the absence of being able to enact change the way it should in a healthy relationship - talking about it reasonably.  But, the guiding principle is doing it for the right reason, not a selfish reason.

It's also not the only tool.  There are a lot more tools here and in books, so walking away every time is like trying to use a hammer to take a nut off a bolt sometimes.

There can also be success facing things, given the right mindset and approach.  Stepping out the door can be necessary at times, but it can also feed their fear of abandonment.

I'd tell you the picture frame story, but I need to get ready for a trip to a Renn Fest.

[secretgirl]

Thank you so much to both of you for your replies... I’m learning so much from this group board and I have all you to thank !

FF, you’re right it seems the more I resist the worse it got until I exploded also which ended in us taking a break right now for another week , then he used his classic go-to of how I’m going to “fill the void” (fill his spot) with another guy... which made me more mad cause it’s like well if you think that lowly of me why are you even with me ?
I know he said/says it cause he’s hurting just annoys the f out of me ! What do I even say to that as a response ?
Before I’ve tried defending myself which obviously fuels the fire , I’ve also tried “in sorry you feel that way and that must suck but I won’t” which got me that weird science project response . Definitely a damned if you do damned if you don’t moment !
Witz_end, exactly why I have a hard time leaving because I know it’s his fear of abandonment that gets triggered but then I’m “babying” him as a codep. To some degree as well ! Have fun at the festival! I hope you have a blast! I just googled it and it looks super cool! Are you dressing up?

[Cat Familiar]

secetgirl,
Here’s another link for you: https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

I suggest you head over to the Bettering Board and start a thread about your story there.

There you will learn tools and strategies about how to avoid conflict and how to improve communication with your boyfriend.

It sounds like you’re becoming aware of some of your patterns that possibly trigger him. Many of us here have struggled with codependent tendencies, often related to our family of origin. Perhaps you have a family member who is a pwBPD (person with BPD)?

[chickena]

sometimes I cant help but laugh to some of the things they say when they're reacting... it's either really mean or super funny

I can very much related to this. It's interesting others can too. I think the BPD person is reaching for something to say that's mean but it can just come off silly and be hard to take seriously.

[secretgirl]

Hi cat ! Thanks for the link I’m going to read up on it !
And definitely ... I’m starting to realize my mom was a bpd and my dad was a Narc. Sometimes I think I have bpd traits but I feel because of my continuous logic and ability to calm down and self regulate a lot that I don’t identify with it as much as I do just as a codependent . My T said that because I was forced to keep secrets as a kid and because my parents constantly wanted me to “behave” and was rewarded always got “good behaviour” and “helping” that I’m most likely a codependent.

And yes chickena... if only I could record some of the things my ubpdbf has said. It’s either super mean or sometimes even the things that are meant to be mean come out as funny to me later because it’s so ridiculous . Or such a ridiculous accusation.
Last week I got accused of wanting to be with a guy in my building who I brought up to my ubpdbf as a guy I actually really dislike because not only is this guy annoying, he’s also a coke head (no judgment ) but obv it affects his behaviour and he’s creepy! So I brought it up to my bf to laugh about but also because of a genuine safety concern I had only to have it used against me later and I say laugh cause the notion of me wanting this guy is so far from what I Like in a man that it almost makes me want to look at my ubpdbf during his rage and laugh but obv that’s never a good reaction to someone feeling upset. I can empathize a lot and it does hurt me too in the moment but looking at it from an outsider POV it’s like omg

[Witz_End]

Have fun at the festival! I hope you have a blast! I just googled it and it looks super cool! Are you dressing up?

Not to derail the thread with banter, but... it was fun, thanks!  I was tired from little sleep and the prospect of having to work through the night afterward tonight, but it was a pretty good day in general.

They are fun.  I go more for the fun atmosphere and less conventional vibe of the people.  Nope, I don't costume for them, though enjoy people watching those who do.

[secretgirl]

Not to derail the thread with banter, but... it was fun, thanks!  I was tired from little sleep and the prospect of having to work through the night afterward tonight, but it was a pretty good day in general.

They are fun.  I go more for the fun atmosphere and less conventional vibe of the people.  Nope, I don't costume for them, though enjoy people watching those who do.

Don't worry about the derail! It's nice to hear about positive things in our lives as well, along with the little things that are our quirks/hobbies/interests
Yeah, I've never heard of that festival before and when I googled it I saw the REN stand for "renaissance" which is super cool and then noticed the pictures. That sure would be an interesting people watching festival... I'm sure there are all sorts of characters there.