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Author Topic: Learning my son is being coached  (Read 473 times)
pausercell

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« on: September 14, 2019, 12:08:22 AM »

I had visitation with my kids today and my son, who is still very young, began saying things that are very troubling.  For starters he said that he remembers a time when I got drunk and yelled at him.  But I’ve never done that.  Later he said that he heard that I took all his mom’s money.  Again, that never happened.  My ex w BPD is filling my son’s head with lies and poison.  He’s too young to understand what’s really going on and I am afraid that sooner or later he won’t be able to distinguish the truth from the lies.  And I’ve noticed that my once sweet and kind children are growing angrier and more hostile to one another.  They used to only need a word or two of encouragement to behave, but now they’re becoming openly defiant.  They still love me, they hug me and smile at me.  They still are eager to talk to me and show me things, but they’re changed by all of this and it has me worried.  When I was living with my ex and kids I was the stabilizing parent who brought structure and predictably to my children’s lives, now that I’m gone they seem adrift.  Their appearance is that of children who are forever to fend for themselves.  Their clothes are dirty.  They are messy and disheveled.  I know that my ex was incapable of taking care of them without me and now that I’m gone it’s starting to show.  And what’s worst of all, they’re too young to be dragged into adult issues.  They shouldn’t be worried about things that they can’t control.  And there is nothing for them to really worry about.  They live in a nice home with their grandparents.  They live in a good neighborhood and attend a good school.  So, why my son is anxious about anything concerning finances or where his next meal is going to come from shows me that his mothers paranoid and unstable influence is having an affect on him.  What makes me frustrated is that she’s only filling his head with this nonsense is because she’s painted me black.  That’s she’s incapable of looking at herself and seeing what’s wrong with her.  She left me, she was the one draining our bank account monthly on shopping and gifts for her friends.  She was the one who would order out for dinner nightly and she was she was the one that kicked me off of our bank account.  She cut me off, she discarded me and she’s acting like the victim.  I guess it goes with the territory with her disorder but when I see how it’s impacting our kids and that there’s nothing I can do about it right now is distressing to say the least.  Custody hearings are on the horizon but with the way our court system favors the mothers when it comes to custody in the vast majority of cases has me on edge.  She’s such an adept liar and knows how to play off others emotions that I’m worried that she’ll work her black magic and smear me to the investigator so bad that she’ll keep custody and I’ll have to sit back and watch my children sink deeper into the nightmare that is her fractured reality.  My lawyer is working really hard and I’m doing my level best to be a good father when I am with them, but I fear it’s not enough and won’t be to undo or heal the damage that they are being exposed to daily without me being there to protect them or be the voice of reason.  It was my hope that my absence would provide the jolt my ex would need to snap her back into reality, but now I see all it’s done is to drive her further into the hell of her making.  What can I do?  Will my kids ever recover?  Will her illness spread to them and damage them in the same way her parents damaged her?    
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 12:35:13 AM by Harri, Reason: edited spelling in title » Logged
SadtimesAZ

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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2019, 12:31:56 AM »

Yes my friend it is hard to watch. My ex did it right in front of me with our son. Even explained her coaching to a family law judge who didn't catch it. I've had to watch my own son slip into a pattern of bad behavior and asking questions for mom. My parenting evaluator said outright, kids don't get a choice until they turn 18, because of afsa you cannot deny a parent time with a child due to mental illness, and basically she can do whatever she wants as long as she doesn't kill our son. So 10-15 years later if your child ends up having their own mental health issues it's not the courts problem. Like I've been told a million times, you have to be the best parent you can when you have the children. Mom is triangulating and alienating and she probably won't stop.
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GaGrl
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2019, 09:39:59 AM »

Are you divorced, with a separation agreement/court order? If so, is there a clause in the court order about each parent not disparaging the other?

With such a clause, you could start by expressing your concern at your son's statements, and reminding your ex of the agreement. Should it continue, your lawyer can send a "reminder" to her with a copy to her lawyer.

Past that, you begin to have cause to file for contempt. However, should her comments reach this point, you might want to see if a parenting coordinator can be assigned, so you have a third party to whom you can bring such concerns. Another option might be co-parenting counseling -- again, using a third party to shine light on the situation.

Are the children seeing a counselor?

What kind of relationship do you have with the grandparents?
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"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
pausercell

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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2019, 11:16:46 AM »

First of thanks to you both Sadtimes and GaGirl.  As for the divorce, it’s still currently in process.  I live in California, so the process just drags on and on.  We have been separated for over five months and because of the courts “wisdom” they have granted her primary custody and thanks to a massive outburst by her father, who was my first visitation monitor (BIG MISTAKE TO AGREE TO THAT, but I was desperate to see my kids so I would’ve agreed to Satan himself to be my monitor if it meant seeing them again) the court figured that I should do the remainder of my visitations with an independent monitor.  I have requested a Court Custody Investigation which is happening next week.  My lawyer has suggested as you did that I take notes on the occurrence where my son relays disparaging comments about me by her mother and to convey all these comments to the investigator.  At the next hearing, upon the advice of my lawyer, I am going to formally request family counseling/coordinator.  I have succeeded in not engaging my children in conversations about their mother at all.  To make matters more complicated my ex lives with her parents and as time passes and more of my ex mother in laws real personality is being revealed I am convinced she also has BPD or NPD as she too is displaying more and more characteristics of the disorder.  This means my children are getting a double dose of their toxicity.  I will continue to be vigilant and mindful that the comments my son says are coming directly from their mother and grandmother and not get defensive or react to them.  It’s hard at times because I want to tell my son the total truth, that their mother has a mental disorder but if I do that it will only drive a wedge between my children and myself and at this stage I can’t have that happen.  My court appointed monitor is an ex cop who specializes in cases dealing with children and I am certain that he is picking up on things as he gives me knowing looks every time one of these event has occurred and he is helping me keep as much distance as I can from my ex and her family by totally facilitating exchanges so that I don’t need to be present during the drop off and pick up and thus eliminating the the chance for my ex or her family to try to provoke me or say disparaging things to and about me.  The fight continues and I am going to keep my head down until the investigation is over and hope that I will get partial custody without a supervisor.  Then when my relationship with my children regains normality I can slowly start to reveal the truth about what is really going on. 
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GaGrl
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2019, 06:58:09 PM »

That sounds like several other member situations from this board. One member started out not seeing his son for three months during temporary orders, only to receive primary custody and majority time. It didn't happen overnight -- it required a series of court actions instigated by the ex's poor behaviors.

We're here for you. Believe me, most of what goes on has been experienced by someone here.
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"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
I Am Redeemed
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2019, 08:39:42 PM »

Hi PC,

I just wanted to chime in and say that you're not alone, and that there are two books highly recommend on this board for this situation. One is "Don't Alienate the Kids" by Bill Eddy, and the other is "Divorce Poison" by Richard Warshak. I have not read the Eddy book, but I recently bought Divorce Poison and it's very eye opening.
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pausercell

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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2019, 10:07:25 AM »

Hey GaGirl and Redeemed.  Thanks for the support and input.  I’m big on reading so I will definitely check out the books  you’ve suggested.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2019, 11:20:57 AM »

There is also a lot of great material online by Dr. Craig Childress. He's definitely an academic and the writing can be wordy but like the others he has suggestions for how to communicate with kids (and custody evaluators) so that you don't play into the game.

One thing I did with my son was to talk kinda casually about the difference between lying, keeping secrets, forgetting, etc.

I would come up with scenarios and then ask him if it was lying, and he would get into the grey areas and on his own figure out how important context was and get used to thinking that kind of thing through on his own. I think it's Warshak who suggests watching movies that touch on those themes and then talking to the child about whether the characters were engaged in lying, etc.

Your ex wants to do the thinking for her kids (which doesn't feel good, it overrides their natural instinct to develop a distinct self). The key is to help them figure out what they feel and think. If you are skillful at this, they will begin to associate positive feelings with your approach, which is for them to trust themselves.

It's hard when you are on the complete defensive about total nonsense. Childress discusses in one youtube interview the power of laughter. If a child says, Mom told me you did xyz, Childress says it can be powerful to laugh it off, especially if you can do it without malice. "Ha ha ha! That's funny to think about me doing something so ridiculous. Let's tuck into this ice cream and talk about what you want to do tomorrow , blah blah blah."

Also, "How did that feel when mom said that?" is super powerful. It shows you can care about their feelings more than your own in that moment, which is what adults do. We are supposed to help them make sense of their feelings and label and regulate them. That is huge! It's a way to create long-lasting security, something they can learn to do and take with them into the world so it feels safe and makes sense.

Your ex on the other hand denies them the chance to have their own feelings because to do that is aggravating to her, in the same way it was when you had your own sense of self.

My son is now 18 and he has internalized the skills I learned from friends here and through those books, and my therapist. He'll tell me what someone said or did and then, without prompting, he'll say, "It made me irritated that he was _________."

She is trying to abuse them with parental alienation and you can offset it by teaching them about their emotions.

It will be the seat of reality for them to know how they feel.
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Breathe.
hurtguy2014

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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2019, 01:26:02 PM »

Hang in there. I live in the same state and went through seperation and custody with my ex on two occasions. The first one my ex got primary custody of my daughter with me receiving the standard father visitation of every other  weekend. After two years and threat of a move away (to another state) I foolishly took the reccomondation of my attorney to reconile. Fast forward three years my ex got heavily dependant on drugs and alcohal and I wound of having to put a restraining order to protect my child. In the end, I was granted a one-year restraining order and sole custody of my daughter (my ex has bi-weekly supervised visitations). In my case, and in several other people in California I have seen fathers granted custody of their children. It really depends on the judge and the evidence you have against your ex.
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SadtimesAZ

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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2019, 06:56:09 PM »

Yes I also discovered Dr. Childress, attachment based parental alienation by narc/borderline parents. That's the reason they do it.
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2019, 10:57:45 PM »

(Thread describes when divorce trial was looming, ex had messed up and my ex was desperate to use 5 year old son to make me look worse than her...)

I spoke with my son and realized he didn't know what lying was.  During those early years I felt he was developmentally delayed by all the conflict and discord.  He was in kindergarten, so I looked for a way to VALIDATE what truth and honesty were.  I found an out-of-print Clifford The Big Red Dog book, T-Bone Tells The Truth, and we read it together.  I saw the light bulb go off in his head. Thought

Another must-read book is Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by William Eddy & Randi Kreger.
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