What if they're the one?

[NeverEnoughMan]

For reference, I am 3 months apart from undiagnosed but very clearly ex-gf upwBPD, being dumped about 5 times within 2 years, yet she always came back within a month...this time is definitely different. I suppose the reason this time is different is because she has some other replacement or whatnot. I love when I'm told we're "toxic for each other" and you just wanna scream, "YOU are toxic, WE are not toxic, I am not toxic, YOU are". But that isn't the point of this post.

I always see the "they never loved you", "turn and run", "the way they made you feel is just idealization/mirroring", etc. All of which are very possible, probable and relevant. And if the way I am treated currently is any marker, you'd think I abused HER, cheated and lied the entire time. But what I'm getting at here is, she has almost every single quality I want in a girlfriend (outside of being out of touch with reality most of the time). What makes it very difficult to detach from, is that many times, I've seen the person below the pain. Maybe 2-3 times within our 2 years together, she even said things like "I don't know what's wrong with me", "Please don't give up on me", "Maybe I am bipolar or some sh*t", etc. The break-up was basically, "we tried, we just don't work, we both gave it a solid chance but its not working" <-Love that one. I mean, I know one of the two of us tried and guess who that was?
The ones that haunt me are the "You saved my life", "You are perfect (while gazing into my eyes for minutes at a time in silence), "I can't imagine my life without you in it", "I wish I could meet your mom just to tell her how grateful I am for you and how she raised such an amazing son" (My mother died of aggressive cancer out of nowhere, when I was 22, I am now 33 and I was VERY close to her). The loss of my mother and then recently (April 2019) finding my father dead and hard as a rock, has impacted me very much. It took me years to even consider dating someone and I thought my deeply distressing setbacks would show her how serious I am about my life and my connections. She cried when I told the story of what happened to my mom (all within 6 months from diagnosis to death). Mom even broke down hysterically crying one time on the ride home from me driving her to a chemo session and said, "I'm not ready to go yet. I want to see you get married and have kids". If I decided to type the 'story' out here, you may cry as well, especially when your mom was your best friend ever.

I digress. We met at a concert, we listen to the same music, we have opposite views on things (which we both actually liked, because it encouraged *safe* discussion and perspective), she is funny, she likes to go out or stay in, we were best friends, I made her feel special and she made me feel special. Now, it's obviously not all rainbows and butterflies. This was so intense, I've visited forums and even here, but this is the closest I've come to opening up about my experiences and feelings with this relationship. I don't know where to start, I don't know how to possibly explain how I feel, what I gave versus what I received, and utter confusion most of the time...even on what most would consider 'good days'. Constantly fighting to prove myself or that I'm not a horrible lying cheater. My reality, even if a bit biased, is a stable, good-looking (sorry, it's true?), good secure job, good secure home, good secure car, good secure retirement, good secure savings, go on vacation, pay for fun stuff cuz I like to have fun, take care of the people closest to me because when they're happy, I'm happy kinda guy... And is this about not wanting to lose the way she made me FEEL? Yes, it is a huge part of it. But whoa, the sex? The body type I tend to love? The personality traits I tend to love? The overall vibe, that this is someone who fits what I need and although she's got issues, she has probably been given up on by every relationship she's ever had. I am not weak, I can handle it...to an extent. But have you ever felt, that you found the one, but your one is a little...damaged? And how to reconcile such a feeling, because yes, being left to rot is horrible. No matter what the situation or personal mental illness. But I don't have trouble letting go, I have trouble "giving up". Those moments, like many of the good and bad we faced, are what haunt my psyche. "Please don't give up on me". But she...gave up on me?

Am I perfect? No. Do I have the qualities of someone who most amazing women would kill for? Yes (I hope so). But it's like being begged for help, while being thrown in the gutter. It's hard to figure out. I feel like she is a good person and she fits with me very well...aside from the complete chaos I've walked with her. At this point, I'm being painted "grey". She doesn't want to see me or speak to me, but still has open line of communication. Even have been told during one of the recent texts that she "loves and cares about me, always thinks about me, but needs to care about herself more". Very true, start by going to a free clinic to get your mental and sexual health checked for the first time in your entire life, and then, I'll agree she is just taking care of her own business. Until then, it's this false narrative or idea of caring for herself, while the people closest to her either do nothing or take advantage of her sexually. Sometimes the reach outs (started by me) which were 3 times in 3 months, have been normal, sometimes they have been taken the totally wrong way.  One of the texts I sent was asking her if I could be in her life and if other people get to be in her life, why can't I? <That apparently meant I was calling her a slut and stalking her...hmmm.  I know this is a rambling post, but it's all I can do right now. What if, you want them back, not because you're "so perfect for each other" but because you feel so connected to everything that is RIGHT between you and about her. I can't save or fix her, but I think her illness and past pain, doesn't define her. Wouldn't you want someone to fight for you? Even in your worst moments?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[lucidone]

Hey there, can relate to much of this.   My ex and I are about 3 months NC after being together for a year, and there was a few breakups while we were together.  Completely certain that she has BPD or BPD tendencies.

I felt like she was the one. She would enthusiastically talk about and do things that I was interested in, and took interest in them too.  She showed me so much positive attention and wanted to spend so much time with me.  Most of the time we were so content being with each other, even if it was doing nothing.  The thing is I don't know how much of it was real and how much of it was just to build the attachment or to have me content enough to be there for her when she needed it.  I don't actually know in reality how close she was to being the one, especially when factoring in the BPD tendencies.

I remember one time she said that this isn't working out, and we have different communication styles.  It makes me laugh as the reality was that she didn't communicate at all.  It wasn't working out because of her issues.  I know that I'm not perfect.  Her level of imperfection is much more severe than mine however.

I think it's understandable that you'd want to be there for the one that you care for.  I certainly do.  I've considered trying to help her understand her disorder and help her work through it.  I'm also considering that its not fair to me though.  It's also so frustrating to want to help someone that makes it so utterly difficult, either consciously or subconsciously, for you to do that.

[secretgirl]

I can relate to both of your posts... I am now 1.5 weeks (almost two weeks ) of NC with some jabs sent thru text message by my ubpdexbf (unblocking me, sending a jab/accusation, blocking me again).
There's SO MUCH I loved about my ex... and so much of this right now does not seem real to me... how can someone who tells you you're their forever person perceive such things about you to accuse you of? I miss the good parts of him a lot. I still cry sometimes when I'm reminded of him through a memory/song etc.
I know this doesn't help much... but anytime there's NC of any sort or ST or whatever, it's a good time to look at  ourselves, ask ourselves if we think we did anything wrong (truly), judge ourselves on our reactions/behavior (honestly), and figure out if we want to deal with someone who may never want to seek help for their half of things.
I'm still undecided to be honest... in my heart, I know they're mentally ill but I still can't wrap my head around why someone would want to (not on purpose-due to the illness) treat someone the way they treat us when they're down/splitting?
I'm starting to lose faith in myself and think I don't have the strength to be with a UBPD. I'm putting effort into bettering myself through self-care, therapy, etc. None of us are perfect Neverenoughman, it's how we decide to better ourselves that counts...
If someone isn't willing to put in 50% of their half into helping the r/s grow, then you have to decide to fully commit yourself to them and learn ways of communicating because they won't change. Your ex won't ever change. It would be a miracle for her to have an epiphany and wake up and realize she needs therapy (which I hope to God , does happen for you) but it's best not to get our hopes up.
It's the hope that has kept us here this long. There are lots of seniors on here you can take advice from when you read their posts etc. I think that'll help you come to your own conclusion.
We are always here for you . I am ever so grateful for this board whether it's because I'm sad, confused, or venting (haha) I always have people here who can relate or listen, which is nice. It's a great part of healing ourselves whether it's to better the r/s or detach, it's your choice to decide. But I cannot stress enough that you should be prepared for the worst...and then some adjustments to your behavior will have to be made.

I am now learning HOW my defensiveness makes my ubpdexbf feel. It's what I'll have to work on if I were to ever take him back. And also working on my own self esteem to not let his jabs/accusations make it feel like it's a personal attack on me (which is hard if you're a sensitive person).
Everyone would want someone to fight for them.. imagine if you were in their shoes, I'm sure if she loves you, she would want you to fight... so it's not saying we shouldn't WANT to try to be with them. It's just knowing our own limits. They are not "easy" people to love. But who is? We all have our sh*it. But it's more so asking yourself how much of it can you personally deal with (because you know yourself best), and how much of you can you change to adjust to her behavior?

[NeverEnoughMan]

I know. What many people will tell you, after any break up, is to focus on yourself, get some hobbies, take care of yourself, love yourself, etc.  All of which is good advice.  The thing is, that I already do all of that, I do love myself.  Just because I was in a relationship with a disordered person, doesn't all of sudden mean that I don't value myself or have hobbies.  I already do love myself, even after being left.  I believe she may even realize she was difficult to be with and viewed breaking up with me, as her way of "saving me from her".  One of the last phone calls we had, she was crying, telling me that she "doesn't deserve me".  Sometimes, via the conversations during this breakup and afterwards, it seemed that she was aware that she is messing up my life. I can't explain why I feel that way, except the choice of words and the approach to the disconnect, felt as if she 'knows' she was the problem and 'knows' she's gonna burn me at the stake if I put up with her craziness any longer. Now, fast forward to the most recent text conversation, and you'd think I was the antichrist, yet, the breakup was tears and begging me to 'take care of myself' and how 'this isn't what she wants to do, but it's something we both have to accept'.

What I'm saying here, I suppose, is that is the main cause of my disorientation. She is first basically separating from me in an honest, nobel way...especially considering her chaos called existence. Showing this sign of remorse, "It's not something I want to accept but it is what it is" mentality. Then, two months apart, it's the "You've hurt me so many times in our relationship" (Definitely not true, most of our issues came from false narratives she came up with by placing my fingerprint on my cell while I slept, then interpreting the one photo I had STANDING NEXT TO a woman, out of thousands of photos...as a lying, cheating, piece of sh*t).

Wait...did you recall you accused me of things I would never do? Do you recall how you punched me in the face or yanked my collar as I was walking away to avoid drama and made me topple backwards, that you told me the guy who texted you was someone you haven't seen or talked to in a year...but I end up finding out you were at his house at 3am while you were dating me? But I hurt her so much in the relationship? I can understand, I began to give her less sex (I felt she was disease ridden or used up), did I start to not even give a damn when she started problems and then I'd act like, 'well, whatever, I am not doing this'...yes. I began to become distant. And as soon as she saw that, I was scum on the bottom of her foot. While I put up with it and pretended she wasn't a liar or a cheater? I was still in her good graces.

You know how many times she talked of our wedding? Dozens. In fact, two weeks before the breakup she was talking about it. Oh and let's not forget, our kids better have my eyelashes (cuz they're long). So she was ready to move this forward...but oops! I was acting cold and distant. Oh yea...true...I was. Cuz the last time we got back together, she cried as we talked about communication and not letting PLEASE READ get crazy. I don't doubt she's coming back. Last text was, "I am not ready but I don't want you out of my life forever". The problem in this situation as a whole, isn't her, it's how the game she's playing is keeping me with one foot in the door, and one foot out.

I won't lie, I am depressed.  Even three months later, I really miss her and want to be with her.  I understand my own flaws and reactions, some of which are 'normal' but aren't good mixes with these types of people.  I do want to try again with her and am willing to put in my side of things.  I know that doesn't mean things are going to be perfect, but it's worth a shot if you truly love someone.  Most people, online or otherwise, think I'm a fool for still holding on this long.  They say things like "It's been three months, she hasn't contacted you, she clearly doesn't want to be with you.  You need to let her go, move on".  Look, that may be the case...most times I would be moving on by now.  But there's something about thinking that maybe she's confused, overwhelmed, scared...via the disorder, so I'm more liberal with my timeframes.  It all hurts me very much, I've never been this heartbroken in my entire life.  Yet, I still love her unconditionally...it's a hard thing to reconcile in my mind.  I do feel like, if she does come back, that I'm going to take things really slow.  Almost as if we're truly starting from scratch.  Not jumping in head first.  And then we both can gauge if we're heading towards the same issues or if our time apart has brought us closer.  I might be a hopeless romantic and this might be pathetic to some, but in my mind, the breakup, the separation, the space...is what we needed to happen, in order to get the relationship on the right track.  I really hope she comes back, I cannot bear to lose someone who means so much to me.  I don't know if she's going to realize her loss, but something tells me that our story isn't quite over yet.  Thank you for your replies.

[secretgirl]

I know. What many people will tell you, after any break up, is to focus on yourself, get some hobbies, take care of yourself, love yourself, etc.  All of which is good advice.  The thing is, that I already do all of that, I do love myself.  Just because I was in a relationship with a disordered person, doesn't all of sudden mean that I don't value myself or have hobbies.  I already do love myself, even after being left.  I believe she may even realize she was difficult to be with and viewed breaking up with me, as her way of "saving me from her".  One of the last phone calls we had, she was crying, telling me that she "doesn't deserve me".  Sometimes, via the conversations during this breakup and afterwards, it seemed that she was aware that she is messing up my life. I can't explain why I feel that way, except the choice of words and the approach to the disconnect, felt as if she 'knows' she was the problem and 'knows' she's gonna burn me at the stake if I put up with her craziness any longer. Now, fast forward to the most recent text conversation, and you'd think I was the antichrist, yet, the breakup was tears and begging me to 'take care of myself' and how 'this isn't what she wants to do, but it's something we both have to accept'.

 
I totally get this... it's not really what you WANT to hear when you're feeling sad and hurt. It's just the only positive advice people can give you without joining in on bashing your ex because then we are no better than the BPD's.



What I'm saying here, I suppose, is that is the main cause of my disorientation. She is first basically separating from me in an honest, nobel way...especially considering her chaos called existence. Showing this sign of remorse, "It's not something I want to accept but it is what it is" mentality. Then, two months apart, it's the "You've hurt me so many times in our relationship" (Definitely not true, most of our issues came from false narratives she came up with by placing my fingerprint on my cell while I slept, then interpreting the one photo I had STANDING NEXT TO a woman, out of thousands of photos...as a lying, cheating, piece of sh*t).

Oh gosh ... have I ever gone through this and can relate to it... I'm truly sorry. It sucks.

Wait...did you recall you accused me of things I would never do? Do you recall how you punched me in the face or yanked my collar as I was walking away to avoid drama and made me topple backwards, that you told me the guy who texted you was someone you haven't seen or talked to in a year...but I end up finding out you were at his house at 3am while you were dating me? But I hurt her so much in the relationship? I can understand, I began to give her less sex (I felt she was disease ridden or used up), did I start to not even give a damn when she started problems and then I'd act like, 'well, whatever, I am not doing this'...yes. I began to become distant. And as soon as she saw that, I was scum on the bottom of her foot. While I put up with it and pretended she wasn't a liar or a cheater? I was still in her good graces.

You know how many times she talked of our wedding? Dozens. In fact, two weeks before the breakup she was talking about it. Oh and let's not forget, our kids better have my eyelashes (cuz they're long). So she was ready to move this forward...but oops! I was acting cold and distant. Oh yea...true...I was. Cuz the last time we got back together, she cried as we talked about communication and not letting PLEASE READ get crazy. I don't doubt she's coming back. Last text was, "I am not ready but I don't want you out of my life forever". The problem in this situation as a whole, isn't her, it's how the game she's playing is keeping me with one foot in the door, and one foot out.

100%... but that's what BPD;s want... that's why there's never Proper closure... it either ends in a weird "silent" ghosting manner... or a big explosion that's never resolved to make you feel guilty/have your head spinning about everything that just went on in your r/s and make you feel bad about it and doubt/question your actions and responses.


I won't lie, I am depressed.  Even three months later, I really miss her and want to be with her.  I understand my own flaws and reactions, some of which are 'normal' but aren't good mixes with these types of people.  I do want to try again with her and am willing to put in my side of things.  I know that doesn't mean things are going to be perfect, but it's worth a shot if you truly love someone.  Most people, online or otherwise, think I'm a fool for still holding on this long.  They say things like "It's been three months, she hasn't contacted you, she clearly doesn't want to be with you.  You need to let her go, move on".  Look, that may be the case...most times I would be moving on by now.  But there's something about thinking that maybe she's confused, overwhelmed, scared...via the disorder, so I'm more liberal with my timeframes.  It all hurts me very much, I've never been this heartbroken in my entire life.  Yet, I still love her unconditionally...it's a hard thing to reconcile in my mind.  I do feel like, if she does come back, that I'm going to take things really slow.  Almost as if we're truly starting from scratch.  Not jumping in head first.  And then we both can gauge if we're heading towards the same issues or if our time apart has brought us closer.  I might be a hopeless romantic and this might be pathetic to some, but in my mind, the breakup, the separation, the space...is what we needed to happen, in order to get the relationship on the right track.  I really hope she comes back, I cannot bear to lose someone who means so much to me.  I don't know if she's going to realize her loss, but something tells me that our story isn't quite over yet.  Thank you for your replies.

With the way things ended between you two, I don't think the story is over yet... you didn't end with her painting you black. soo... it's most likely , maybe, at some point, she will come back.
I know it's not what you want to hear to "move on" etc... but for the time being, it's important to just keep yourself busy and keep your mind off of it as much as possible. I really hope it does work out for you... you seem very willing to try and be with someone with BPD , so that's a very good first sign!

[NeverEnoughMan]

Thanks secretgirl.  Just the fact that you took time to read my post and reply to it, makes me feel really good, honestly.  I am not sure what is going to happen, but what I do know, is that I am a really good man and I know exactly what I have to offer.  Life is hard.  Relationships are hard.  People are complex.  But I am here, alive and strong.  Which means if she comes back, I'm gonna be fine.  If she doesn't, I'm gonna be fine.  I just don't want to lose someone who has the potential to overcome all of this, but if that never happens, at least I know what unconditional love is.

[secretgirl]

Thanks secretgirl.  Just the fact that you took time to read my post and reply to it, makes me feel really good, honestly.  I am not sure what is going to happen, but what I do know, is that I am a really good man and I know exactly what I have to offer.  Life is hard.  Relationships are hard.  People are complex.  But I am here, alive and strong.  Which means if she comes back, I'm gonna be fine.  If she doesn't, I'm gonna be fine.  I just don't want to lose someone who has the potential to overcome all of this, but if that never happens, at least I know what unconditional love is.

awe NeverEnough... that's actually the sweetest message I've read in a long time. It melts my heart reading the unconditional love bit. Just keep being you, and I'm sure it will work out. I have hope for you
And of course... it was my pleasure to read and reply.. I hope you're feeling somewhat a bit better? Hopefully you've done a few things today to keep your mind off your girl for a bit

[NeverEnoughMan]

To be honest, it comes in waves and it's a lot of ups and downs.  Some days I feel fine, I'm in a good place in my mind and I am content with whatever is.  Letting it be, so to speak.  But, the flip side, is that other days, I'll feel the weight of the negative aspects and loss of someone I love beyond words.  It's a very difficult place to be.  It really hurts that this much time has passed and she doesn't even speak to me.  Considering we didn't end on a horrible note, nor did I cheat or lie, or do something most would deem unforgivable.  If you wanted to break up because you need to work on yourself or you felt like you couldn't be in the relationship anymore, how does that translate into ghosting me and acting like I meant nothing to you?  When I am discussing marriage and kids and how you mean the world to me, I would still want that person in my life, even if things didn't work out relationship wise. 

So I'm just taking things one day at a time.  I do have a personal "cut off date", which is Christmas.  If things stay how they are now, no contact, no connection, no hint of even being slightly curious how I am or how life is going... nothing?  By Christmas, it'll be two major holidays missed and I'll have to accept that this isn't going to come back together.  When I say cut off date, I'm basically saying that I will no longer respond or be open to any interaction.  I don't want to have to do that, but if 5 months go by and you don't care enough to even talk to me or see me, then it's time for me to do the same.  I really hope she realizes what she has done and what she is losing.  I'm not the last guy on Earth, but I can guarantee her a partnership of absolute respect, loyalty and love.  But can she guarantee me the same?  Only time and distance will answer that for us.  We broke in order to reveal that we had it right all along.  My heart and my mind, continue to tell me that I should fight for her.  I hope I am not making a mistake.  But if I am, I have no one to blame but myself, I'm choosing this path.