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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Part 4: Will she ever realize the truth?  (Read 2799 times)
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« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2019, 11:23:51 AM »

Hey SH4,

Knowing what you know now from  bpdfamily, what do you think you could have done differently when it all kicked off? This isn't beat yourself up time... this is tough stuff and unpleasant and emotionally triggering for you. I'm not here to tell you you did something wrong, I'd like to highlight... or more accurately help you identify what you could have done differently. If you can, transpose your post "Ok guys I think I made a big mistake on Monday." and lets talk about what you could have done which would have turned away from conflict, not chucked fuel on the fire. It may require you doing something very drastic to avert your instinct to react... buying time allows yourself to become less triggered and get yourself to a place where you can see alternative possibilities for peoples motivations or make conscious decisions to swerve obvious land mines where you inevitably lose a leg.

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« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2019, 11:54:32 AM »

what do you think you could have done differently when it all kicked off?

I know I should not have said anything about her removing the "Married to..." from social media.  I should not have texted her.  The whole thing could have been avoided.  Regardless of that...at the end of the day, she still feels the way she feels and even if I hadn't reacted to it...it's how she felt to remove it.  At some point I have to accept that she just doesn't want to be with me.

So I came across this today...  I would like to know everyone's thoughts?
https://www.loveaddictionhelp.com/12-distancing-strategies-the-love-avoidant-uses-to-avoid-intimacy

These 12 things, these tick every single box of my W.  She has done all of them in our relationship and every relationship before me.  If this is who she is and will never change, she will never want me...I need to ask myself what am I fighting so hard for?

SH4
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2019, 12:17:42 PM »

generally speaking, divorce threats are very destructive to relationships.

I talk to other married couples and they say they throw the divorce word around every now and again, and that it doesn't mean when one person says it in the heat of an argument 4 months ago, that it's carved in stone.  I've told her this, and she says it's ALL lies and that I'm just trying to manipulate her and that married couples NEVER say that unless they mean it.  Then I asked a married couple, they said oh yeah we say that all the time, she lost her sh** on me that I would dare ask, just to prove her wrong and that just CONFIRMED I want a divorce.

this is an example of what i mean when it comes to gravitating more toward validation for your side of the conflict than trying to resolve it.

does the fact that some married couples have slipped and threatened divorce have any bearing on your relationship, how it felt to your wife, what it means for the two of you right now? it was clearly a huge deal to her. it was clearly a turning point in a series of turning points of your relationship breaking down.

Excerpt
I'm not looking for something to blame.  I'm just trying to figure it out so I know what I can give her or not give her to help communicate with her in a way she will understand. 

you are very quick to dismiss the answers she has given you over the months.

wouldnt the simplest thing be (in that situation, for example) to show that you understand how a divorce threat might have affected her? that you said it in the heat of the moment, but that you didnt mean it, that you value the marriage and not saying things like that out of anger? that its something you vow never to do again? its unlikely that it would completely alleviate her feelings about it; that wouldnt be the point.

SH4, i dont say any of this to beat you up, i say it to help, and to reach you. this relationship is on a fast track to divorce that gets faster and more likely every time the conflict between the two of you escalates. you are a big part of that - both of you are pretty entrenched.

if you want to save this relationship (a goal we all share), and if its possible, its going to take a radically different mindset, and approach.

Excerpt
Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse.

Someone has to be first. This means generating the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are destructive to the relationship.

Make a Commitment to Stop Making it Worse

The first step is commitment. By definition, when you are out of control (throwing the proverbial fuel on the fire), you are not using logic (or any other helpful process) enough.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

are you up for it?
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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2019, 12:50:31 PM »

SH4, i dont say any of this to beat you up, i say it to help, and to reach you.
Once Removed,
I know you are only trying to help and I really appreciate it.  Thank you!

are you up for it?

Yes I am up for it.  I have read that lesson several times before.  I guess I don't know how to put it into practice.

I think my fear is she is just too far gone and looking for any little thing as an excuse to get out of this.

Thanks again for your help.

SH4
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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2019, 02:56:05 PM »

Excerpt
I think my fear is she is just too far gone and looking for any little thing as an excuse to get out of this.

she may, in part, be. that may be how far things have gone. though that is hardly the same thing as being "done". i spent three years looking for that excuse and didnt leave.

all of the fighting, all of the resentment, indicates a certain level of attachment, albeit destructive. if she were completely done, she wouldnt be interested in any of that.

she is fighting, has been fighting for a very long time, to be heard. people make breakup threats, or take steps to breakup, sometimes, in order to be heard. its thin ice when they do; its kind of like a last straw. it means they have partly grieved the relationship...they may not be completely done, but they may be leaning that way.

if shes looking for excuses, those excuses exist. right now there is no incentive to return to the relationship. even apart, its all heavy conflict and getting worse. if she came back right now, it would be a disaster; the two of you would be right back at it, possibly in even worse fashion.

but i think on some level, so are you (looking for excuses to get out of this).

with every conflict, youre more frustrated, more hopeless, more beaten up, more resentful, more "i might really be done this time".

its a valid place to be. but its a place thats really hard to repair a relationship from.

Excerpt
I guess I don't know how to put it into practice.

Excerpt
Make a Commitment to Stop Making it Worse

The first step is commitment.

it starts with commitment. whether it is to give up, or to reinvest, you want to make the best out of a tough situation. it means stopping the bleeding. acting constructively rather than destructively. choose a path, and put all of your eggs in that basket.

Excerpt
But, even if you have the capacity to do a particular behavior that is effective, you might still lack the motivation.

In situations of high negative emotion, when it is harder to do the new behavior, you are likely to think, "I don't really care about that now". In this emotional state, you fail to see the consequences of your actions.

So, you need to get to a balanced place in your mind in which you are broadly aware of your real relationship goals and not just your painful emotion of the moment. It is important to practice now, so you can get there in situations of duress..

by and large, it sounds like you are mostly motivated by self defense (and fear), and thats where your actions and responses are coming from. it isnt serving you. you are more focused in the moment and reacting to it than the big picture and what you are broadly trying to achieve.

it takes practice to change our emotional response. but commitment and motivation to the goals you have will help you.

Excerpt
Anticipate Your Impulsiveness

Even if you are highly committed to stop making things worse in conflict situations; you still need to practice a host of skills needed to stop.

When we are in the middle of enduring a verbal attack from someone else; our own reaction feels impulsive; like an unpredictable and overbearing urge. However; realistically; a lot of these situations are quite predictable. How many times have you had that fight? How many times has your partner said that particular hurtful and provocative thing?

if you look at these blowups, your partner, between all of the vitriol, gives you some very important clues. that is a good motivation to really listen. it gives you something you can work with.

for example, this time, she told you she took down the relationship status because she didnt want people wishing her happy anniversary. given where she is at in all of this, it makes sense. when my dad died, i got a lot of support. it was and is deeply appreciated. but i tend to be very private in my grief. i felt obligated to respond to the outreach, when i just wanted to grieve. its possible that any given person i took a while to respond to might have taken it personally; understandable, but that would have been to misread the situation. if that person laid into me, or pressured me, that would not have helped.

Excerpt
she said she shouldn't have to live by my standards of a marriage... I was crying the whole time and she just kept screaming and saying horrible things about me

i dont normally like to compare people with bpd traits to toddlers. they arent, and it isnt a helpful comparison, at least not directly.

i think it will help though, if you visualize how you might have responded if this was coming from a three year old having a breakdown.

your wife has huge, long standing resentments. she is venting them at you. shes throwing the kitchen sink. it is helpful to really listen to them (and this takes some doing. none of this was really about accusing you of having an affair). its not very helpful to take them personally or to respond from a place of woundedness. shes blowing off steam.

think about it. right now, on some level, youd probably love to tear into her, tell her all the hell shes put you through, how selfish shes been, how shes made you feel. would it help you if she responded defensively or made it about her? or would it help to feel acknowledged?

Excerpt
I kept asking if we could talk at another time when she wasn't so angry.

this wont help her feel acknowledged.

it is one thing to step away when she gets completely out of line, when things have broken down beyond the point of no return, when shes abusive.

its another, when you contacted her first to let her have it for removing her relationship status, to shut her down (lets talk when you arent so angry) when shes letting off steam.

Excerpt
Rehearse a New emotional response

Once you have identified typical triggers; you can anticipate that your partner will do them again. The more aware you are of the triggers; the less potent they will be. In a way; every time you imagine your partner saying that trigger and imagine that you respond in a kind way (or; at least; not in kind); you are reconditioning the trigger because you are changing the cycle.

right now, you are easily triggered by many things. and shes in a vindictive mode, either making digs at soccer, or accusing you of random things, or totally blowing up at you. responding in the same old ways means the dysfunctional dynamic is continuing in the same old way.

Excerpt
The difference between this example and visualizing the negative consequences of giving in is that the former uses your motivation to avoid negative consequences, whereas this one uses your motivation to achieve positive ones. Both can work rather well in the moment.

visualize. she is just a person blowing off steam. if you do the same, its just two people blowing off steam.

lastly, remember, big picture: this is not about each individual conflict. this is about years of resentment exploding to the surface. if you can remain level (within reason) and listen, really listen, it can be an opportunity.
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« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2019, 07:07:54 AM »

Once Removed,

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that and help me.  I read through it all once...I'm going to go back and read it all again.  There is some good words of wisdom in there and I really want to learn all I can to do my part and try and help make this better, or at least less explosive.

Thank you so much!  ((HUGS)

SH4
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« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2019, 10:30:10 AM »

it starts with commitment. whether it is to give up, or to reinvest, you want to make the best out of a tough situation. it means stopping the bleeding. acting constructively rather than destructively. choose a path, and put all of your eggs in that basket.

Ok, so I'm going to reinvest.  I'm going to try and stop the bleeding and not react to things.  In the meantime, she hasn't reached out since the blow up Monday night.  Do you think it's best I just lay low and wait for her to reach out to me?  Or should I initiate contact?  I don't want to push her away.  I also don't want too much time to go by and have her reach out in a week, on our anniversary, saying something like we need to file for divorce now and if she does that how do I respond?

SH4
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« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2019, 01:52:53 PM »

what was the very last thing said?

what would you want to say?
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« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2019, 02:02:21 PM »

I sent the last text... it said "And no matter what you say to me I will always love you...I'm beating myself up bad enough for texting you earlier...I should have never texted  you and said anything...I miss you so much and it hurts knowing you don't feel the same...and that you just wanted to get out of there on Saturday.  I'll never put you in that situation again.  I'm sorry"


What would I say?  I don't know.  She says she doesn't want to hear what I have to say and doesn't care about what I want and this is about what she WANTS now.

Do I not inquire about our dog, he's been pretty sick.  If I don't say anything she will be mad I'm not asking about him and I don't care about him.  If I do ask she will say I'm using him just to talk to her.  I don't want to do the wrong thing and piss her off more. (as if that's even possible).

SH4
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« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2019, 02:22:33 PM »

Excerpt
"And no matter what you say to me I will always love you...I'm beating myself up bad enough for texting you earlier...I should have never texted  you and said anything...I miss you so much and it hurts knowing you don't feel the same...and that you just wanted to get out of there on Saturday.  I'll never put you in that situation again.  I'm sorry"

okay.

if that was the last thing said, i would drop it; dont talk about the relationship, or feelings surrounding it.

Excerpt
Do I not inquire about our dog, he's been pretty sick.

i know this is a hard balance, and you dont want to do the wrong thing, but neither do you want to walk on eggshells.

dont ask about the dog out of fear of what she will or wont do. dont not ask about the dog out of fear of what she will or wont do.

think practically. whats going on with the dog? is it urgent? are you expecting to hear anything new? is it something you would normally do? can it wait?

i would consider all of those things.
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« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2019, 02:42:35 PM »

Staff only

This thread has reached its post limit and has been locked. The discussion continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340476.0
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