Therapy

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Hi its been awhile

Sometimes I just don't understand my Therapist.  My wife has often accused me of being the problem that causes her problems so told me to start therapy.  I found a therapist that specializes in BPD and thought I had found a good therapist, also this therapist had decided she could do couples sessions.  I feel my T is really empathetic and my wife is better at extracting empathy so my therapist is seemingly to be convinced I am the problem. My wife will cry during Therapy she's basically going as the classic BPD victim syndrome and almost has seemed to manipulate the therapist and uses the therapist as an ally or weapon against me.

This last session was a little weird. The therapist asked if there was any recent problems.  My wife digs in and starts talking about how I ask what time she's going to be done with work and this bothers her.  So the therapist asks how I feel about it. So I told the therapist what I thought.  Yes it is a problem my wife is self employed and I don't know her schedule so yes I do ask her at the beginning of the day what time she's going to be done with work. I am trying to coordinate things, why should I have to be afraid of asking such questions shouldn't it be normal for a spouse to tell the other spouse what time they're done with work? why would this bother a spouse?

So the T continues so is there a way not to ask. I repeated again why shouldn't I ask the way not to ask is for my wife to let me know on her own but she doesn't. I work 10 hr days deal with my children after work, deal with working out, cooking dinner and so on yes I want to know approximately when my wife will be home it's part of my coordinating I'm not looking for an exact time my wife works with clients so it's not an exact time but there's no reason she can't tell me a ball park time.

So T asks wife so what bugs you about him asking, wife states while just my mood. Therapist asks again so is there a way not to ask her, or gauge her mood.  So I stated again this is my whole issue with the relationship why should I be made felt ashamed to ask a question like what time is my wife going to be done with work, if she tells me on her own I don't ask. If she's not in the mood to answer let her answer an hour later I don't care she can respond on her time but this is what spouses do communicate schedules and I expect it. So I am going to ask always unless it's made clear again I'm not tracking minutes here I am wanting a general idea I know it's a window. otherwise what am I suppose to sit at home and be like maybe my spouse will be at home around 4:30pm or 9:30pm like what's the big deal.

My Therapist then asks my wife if things are still bothering her, so my wife at this point starts crying not to sound insincere but seriously that was an invitation for straight victim mode to come out. I feel my wife knows how to suck all the empathy out of this counselor and she falls for it. So my wife bring up our last big fight. I feel I pushed the T buttons on this fight which is ironic. I agree I didn't handle thigs well. I will describe in detail the scenario

My wife not long before this fight had got caught racking up credit card debt from impulsive spending which has been an ongoing fight for us.  When she was caught and I tried to discuss it I got the threats of abandonment(divorce), gaslighting(I am controlling with money), stonewalling(refusal to come up with solutions) with holding affection yes I was the bad guy getting punished for her actions as usual. My wife had set all kinds of ultimatums for me if I wanted to continue the relationship ya basically I was going to take care of her financially, help her start her business and she wasn't going to spend any time with me, acknowledge me, do whatever she wants, not help the family with finances.  My T was aware of all of this

So things did die down a little but apparently one day I went home and went to give my wife  I am home kiss she rejected me.  So this has always been an issue rejections of intimacy, it's always on her terms. So I went about playing with my daughter outside then came back in and sat down.  My wife had decided to come to me and give me a kiss. Well being me and being tired of everything being on her terms and walking on eggshells I decided I would give her a taste of her own medicine and told her she should of took the opportunity earlier and since she rejected it earlier I'm not really wanting to accept intimacy right now.  So my wife proceeds to physically push me.  Second time that she had been physical in a very short period of time my wife kicked me in the back when I was walking away from an argument about a week before which ironically that was processed with the T and dismissed by the T also. Oh that's a different story than W told was the T response to me telling her about being kicked.  So me tired of my wife thinking she can give me ultimatums and degrade me to being around just to physically support her and now start physically attacking me I told her to never F##### touch me like that again.  Wife states I am done with your A## (divorce threats again for being called out on her behavior) so technically I got really mad that my wife got physical and is acting like she's the one that got assaulted. So I told her she was a two face B#### she can sit there and play games with intimacy and reject me an uncountable amount of times yet she can't even deal with it once welcome to my life.  So she stated again she was leaving and was never going to forgive me. So me being still angry said some more stuff like good get the F### out of here what are you waiting for more stuff you can never forget. So I called her a B#### and a C### and told her she can leave anytime now.

I get it I lost it, it's the first time I ever used those words to my wife ever. I had been going through a lot with her at the time. Her displacing blame for her impulsive spending, constant divorce threats, her telling me I was nothing to her all of this prior her withholding intimacy. Lets also clear this up so I don't get ridiculed here I don't think anyone owes anyone sex but I am also not stupid and know when sex is being used as a weapon.

so we process this previous fight as a couple, I got a whole hour of how messed up I am by the T and that I should regret that for the rest of my life. Asked where all my anger comes from, and I am lucky that my wife is still around. So I don't disagree that I lost my calm and said stuff I should've never said. But how come all the physical abuse is dismissed how is my wife still able to use this event to basically suck all the empathy out of the T and have her turn on me? I'm not justifying what I said and I know it was hurtful but had I physically assaulted my wife by pushing her or kicking her in the back as she walked away no one would give a crap what she said and I would be a big pile and anything she said about me would be validated or dismissed. So honestly I really don't get why it's ok for her to have done it and no one says a peep about it and everyone questions me. The person that is composed for 95% of the verbal, emotional and occasional physical out lashings that come my way. I have never once touched my wife abusively. That is some serious BS probably the worst aspect of being a caretaker you take all kinds of crap then when you act out of role everyone looks at you like the bad guy. So this gets brought up as something that still bugs my wife.

So then my T asks an interesting question have I been jealous since the beginning of the relationship. I answered no, of course my wife answers yes. So I look surprised at her and looking at her to explain and she goes remember ex______. So I'm thinking ok. Long story short my wife was caught talking to her ex in a very questionable fashion a few years into our relationship. Daily conversation that started right after I left for work and that ended immediately before I arrived home.  It was definitely a hidden conversation that took place daily for minimum weeks. I don't know the full extent of the relationship that took place all I know is that he was asking her to hang out, very emotional and very needy. Talking about things that he didn't know if he should be doing this to himself etc  lets just say I think I had a right to be concerned and the fact that, that would be attributed to me being jealous almost feels like the counselor is assisting my wife in gaslighting. I have no clue with how knowing what time my wife is going  to be home has to do with jealousy. I honestly leave some of these sessions feeling like I'm having my mind twisted by both my wife and therapist. I guess just seems weird to me.

I sometimes feel like my therapist doesn't believe me.  I've got comments from her as noted above I just cant see your wife doing that.  She just doesn't seem to have BPD and if she does she masks it real well. It's like you know she was diagnosed by a psychiatrist and yes that is the huge problem she masks it so well and plays the innocent nice girl and everyone believes it and refuses to see what really happens. I just leave some of these sessions so confused as like what just happened?

sorry not really a question just a rant so far

Maybe my question is has anyone had similar experiences where a therapist seems to be taken in by there BPD partner making things even more confusing for you guys? or even just thoughts about counseling?

[Ltahoe]

Hi its been awhile

Sometimes I just don't understand my Therapist.  My wife has often accused me of being the problem that causes her problems so told me to start therapy.  I found a therapist that specializes in BPD and thought I had found a good therapist, also this therapist had decided she could do couples sessions.  I feel my T is really empathetic and my wife is better at extracting empathy so my therapist is seemingly to be convinced I am the problem. My wife will cry during Therapy she's basically going as the classic BPD victim syndrome and almost has seemed to manipulate the therapist and uses the therapist as an ally or weapon against me.

This last session was a little weird. The therapist asked if there was any recent problems.  My wife digs in and starts talking about how I ask what time she's going to be done with work and this bothers her.  So the therapist asks how I feel about it. So I told the therapist what I thought.  Yes it is a problem my wife is self employed and I don't know her schedule so yes I do ask her at the beginning of the day what time she's going to be done with work. I am trying to coordinate things, why should I have to be afraid of asking such questions shouldn't it be normal for a spouse to tell the other spouse what time they're done with work? why would this bother a spouse?

So the T continues so is there a way not to ask. I repeated again why shouldn't I ask the way not to ask is for my wife to let me know on her own but she doesn't. I work 10 hr days deal with my children after work, deal with working out, cooking dinner and so on yes I want to know approximately when my wife will be home it's part of my coordinating I'm not looking for an exact time my wife works with clients so it's not an exact time but there's no reason she can't tell me a ball park time.

So T asks wife so what bugs you about him asking, wife states while just my mood. Therapist asks again so is there a way not to ask her, or gauge her mood.  So I stated again this is my whole issue with the relationship why should I be made felt ashamed to ask a question like what time is my wife going to be done with work, if she tells me on her own I don't ask. If she's not in the mood to answer let her answer an hour later I don't care she can respond on her time but this is what spouses do communicate schedules and I expect it. So I am going to ask always unless it's made clear again I'm not tracking minutes here I am wanting a general idea I know it's a window. otherwise what am I suppose to sit at home and be like maybe my spouse will be at home around 4:30pm or 9:30pm like what's the big deal.

My Therapist then asks my wife if things are still bothering her, so my wife at this point starts crying not to sound insincere but seriously that was an invitation for straight victim mode to come out. I feel my wife knows how to suck all the empathy out of this counselor and she falls for it. So my wife bring up our last big fight. I feel I pushed the T buttons on this fight which is ironic. I agree I didn't handle thigs well. I will describe in detail the scenario

My wife not long before this fight had got caught racking up credit card debt from impulsive spending which has been an ongoing fight for us.  When she was caught and I tried to discuss it I got the threats of abandonment(divorce), gaslighting(I am controlling with money), stonewalling(refusal to come up with solutions) with holding affection yes I was the bad guy getting punished for her actions as usual. My wife had set all kinds of ultimatums for me if I wanted to continue the relationship ya basically I was going to take care of her financially, help her start her business and she wasn't going to spend any time with me, acknowledge me, do whatever she wants, not help the family with finances.  My T was aware of all of this

So things did die down a little but apparently one day I went home and went to give my wife  I am home kiss she rejected me.  So this has always been an issue rejections of intimacy, it's always on her terms. So I went about playing with my daughter outside then came back in and sat down.  My wife had decided to come to me and give me a kiss. Well being me and being tired of everything being on her terms and walking on eggshells I decided I would give her a taste of her own medicine and told her she should of took the opportunity earlier and since she rejected it earlier I'm not really wanting to accept intimacy right now.  So my wife proceeds to physically push me.  Second time that she had been physical in a very short period of time my wife kicked me in the back when I was walking away from an argument about a week before which ironically that was processed with the T and dismissed by the T also. Oh that's a different story than W told was the T response to me telling her about being kicked.  So me tired of my wife thinking she can give me ultimatums and degrade me to being around just to physically support her and now start physically attacking me I told her to never F##### touch me like that again.  Wife states I am done with your A## (divorce threats again for being called out on her behavior) so technically I got really mad that my wife got physical and is acting like she's the one that got assaulted. So I told her she was a two face B#### she can sit there and play games with intimacy and reject me an uncountable amount of times yet she can't even deal with it once welcome to my life.  So she stated again she was leaving and was never going to forgive me. So me being still angry said some more stuff like good get the F### out of here what are you waiting for more stuff you can never forget. So I called her a B#### and a C### and told her she can leave anytime now.

I get it I lost it, it's the first time I ever used those words to my wife ever. I had been going through a lot with her at the time. Her displacing blame for her impulsive spending, constant divorce threats, her telling me I was nothing to her all of this prior her withholding intimacy. Lets also clear this up so I don't get ridiculed here I don't think anyone owes anyone sex but I am also not stupid and know when sex is being used as a weapon.

so we process this previous fight as a couple, I got a whole hour of how messed up I am by the T and that I should regret that for the rest of my life. Asked where all my anger comes from, and I am lucky that my wife is still around. So I don't disagree that I lost my calm and said stuff I should've never said. But how come all the physical abuse is dismissed how is my wife still able to use this event to basically suck all the empathy out of the T and have her turn on me? I'm not justifying what I said and I know it was hurtful but had I physically assaulted my wife by pushing her or kicking her in the back as she walked away no one would give a crap what she said and I would be a big pile and anything she said about me would be validated or dismissed. So honestly I really don't get why it's ok for her to have done it and no one says a peep about it and everyone questions me. The person that is composed for 95% of the verbal, emotional and occasional physical out lashings that come my way. I have never once touched my wife abusively. That is some serious BS probably the worst aspect of being a caretaker you take all kinds of crap then when you act out of role everyone looks at you like the bad guy. So this gets brought up as something that still bugs my wife.

So then my T asks an interesting question have I been jealous since the beginning of the relationship. I answered no, of course my wife answers yes. So I look surprised at her and looking at her to explain and she goes remember ex______. So I'm thinking ok. Long story short my wife was caught talking to her ex in a very questionable fashion a few years into our relationship. Daily conversation that started right after I left for work and that ended immediately before I arrived home.  It was definitely a hidden conversation that took place daily for minimum weeks. I don't know the full extent of the relationship that took place all I know is that he was asking her to hang out, very emotional and very needy. Talking about things that he didn't know if he should be doing this to himself etc  lets just say I think I had a right to be concerned and the fact that, that would be attributed to me being jealous almost feels like the counselor is assisting my wife in gaslighting. I have no clue with how knowing what time my wife is going  to be home has to do with jealousy. I honestly leave some of these sessions feeling like I'm having my mind twisted by both my wife and therapist. I guess just seems weird to me.

I sometimes feel like my therapist doesn't believe me.  I've got comments from her as noted above I just cant see your wife doing that.  She just doesn't seem to have BPD and if she does she masks it real well. It's like you know she was diagnosed by a psychiatrist and yes that is the huge problem she masks it so well and plays the innocent nice girl and everyone believes it and refuses to see what really happens. I just leave some of these sessions so confused as like what just happened?

sorry not really a question just a rant so far

Maybe my question is has anyone had similar experiences where a therapist seems to be taken in by there BPD partner making things even more confusing for you guys? or even just thoughts about counseling?

[Turkish]

Did your wife admit in front of the T to pushing and kicking you? If so, I'd toss this one into his/her court, "my wife committed crimes against me more than once.  She didn't deny this. Why aren't you taking this seriously?" Maybe do that without your wife there.  If he or she hems and haws, repeat the question, verbatim (my T had this "trick").

As for the withholding, I'll admit I did some of that, which is a major trigger for a pwBPD.  I was in a similar boat. You have a right to your feelings. Yet so does she.  It's hard to reconcile when both partners are angry and hurt, no matter the reasons.

What is your expectation of the therapist role?

We only had 3 joint sessions until she quit, and I think her desire to see a couples' T was more to "fix" me rather than us.  She was wrapped up in the fantasy with her Dream Beau at the time, and had no desire to fix "us" I was soon to find out. 

[formflier]

There is also the chance that the T understands who is more "pliable" and who he would be wasting his time on.

I realize that doesn't seem fair.

Broadly, it's likely best that you own all of your stuff to the best of your ability.  Basically provide the best "example" you can. 

If your wife owns even a 1/4 of her stuff, isn't that better than whats happening now?

I'll second the question from Turkish.  What were your expectations? 

Best,

FF

[Ltahoe]

I did tell the T when I was in a single session.  The sequence of sessions was an individual session for each of us then a joint session.  

After I the fight that involved getting kicked. I told the T what happened. The T response was “I can’t see _______ (wife’s name) doing that” and after I told the whole story the T says “well I’m getting two completely different stories about this”

Then between the joint session was the fight were she pushed me and  I was profane occurred.

To an extent I understand why a lot of people couldn’t see her doing that. My wife is legitimately the nice girl type out in public. But this is a T that was informed that my wife was clinically diagnosed with BPD and I’m pretty sure medical records could validate that.

I just feel like I’m at a point where everything I say or do is dismissed by both my wife and T and I feel like I’m being told to back down and be more passive. Which honestly is the whole problem.  I get verbally, emotionally attacked on the regular. Have had a few threats of physical violence and a few incidents of actual physical stuff. So I stay composed for most of this yet after being passive during all of this It’s like I’m being dismissed and told to be more passive? That’s not going to work for me. I’m not saying I need to be abusive but ya I can’t just sit and take and allow all this stuff to happen.

So I thought therapy would help possibly see her through DBT. Maybe get us to the point where we can problem solve. That’s always been an issue that plagues the relationship every little disagreement has to be a chaotic scene for my wife and always plays the same dynamic, threats of divorce, I’m the problem(jealous, controlling, insecure) her asking why I’m even with her(apparently her insecurity) and it’s things that don’t really even matter I can’t even tell you what the majority of these fights start with.  

For example I know one started with my son from a previous relationship, he was told to be home at such a time and was 3 minutes late. So my wife goes off and loses it about how he’s grounded and can’t be trusted. So I pull my wife aside and said hey you know he doesn’t even have a watch and he was home at about the time. So I told her my thoughts were that it’s a time that has a little grace period. I’m thinking if he’s 15 minutes 30 minutes late I start to ask questions but over three minutes I’m considering that to be on time for a preteen boy.

Of course that turns into I’m a bad parent I let my kid do whatever he wants. That she wants to punch me on the face, threatened divorce the whole works days and days worth of her hatful crap.  Several incidents like that have occurred over even more minute stuff. I had even told her the solution to an argument like that was simple how do we want to handle the time going forward so we all have the same idea? Is it a set in stone time like a work time? Or is there a grace period like 9ish? and all just have to agree and be aware that’s how it is.

I was basically hoping to be able to get to a point from therapy were we can resolve easy conflicts like that without it turning into a big ordeal.

Honestly I’ve had more issues with therapists. About a year and a half ago my wife was coming home from therapy basically saying that her individual therapist was the one telling her I needed therapy. That her therapist thought I was controlling with money, that I was controlling with sex. Who knows what really happened with this therapist and in their sessions it’s all a speculation. But she would often come home saying she was the victim and I had issues. Again my wife’s a pathological liar so who really knows. But part of me believes her therapist bought into it, my wife is slick and her look at me how sweet innocent and nice I am basically blinds people to what she’s really capable of. I’m starting to see it with this therapist.  

Perhaps you’re right I should press the issue of her abuse again in therapy. I honestly thought we let this fight awhile ago, and at home well it doesn’t or hasn’t even seemed to bother her. It was pretty much the opposite at home she hasn’t brought it up but almost seemed like a thing were she was like dang maybe I need to stop playing games and get my act together. So it’s just weird that my wife can play this fight every time we go to a joint session, cry and immediately the therapist looks at me as a POS with serious issues.

Idk her abuse are issues that need to be resolved but somehow everyone though sweeps it under the rug not sure why. Honestly I feel it sucks for men because you’re almost made to be emasculated and ashamed by abuse then the tendency of society is to well further emasculate, dismiss and laugh about the idea men can be abused. For me I just feel like no one wants to believe that this super sweet nice girl can be anything but that. I’m starting to feel that even therapists don’t want to see it either. It took her last individual therapist 7-8 years to recommend her do DBT then when she didn’t her T finally cut ties with her. I have another therapist who has made comments that if she has BPD she masks it well. Yes indeed she does but then again I spent 1000s of hours with my wife before it was unmasked to me. I’m just a little frustrated about this all.

[formflier]

So...you are getting the feeling they are wanting you to be more passive.  What are you wanting to do?

What advice were you hoping to get?


Best,

FF

[Ltahoe]

FF

Ya as hard as it is to swallow. I’ve apologized for my behavior and acknowledged that it wasn’t appropriate. It was a one time off incident that had never happened before and hasn’t happened since. Yes I want to be more assertive vs passive but that was a total fail. After I got the scolding from the T I had told my wife what I really thought, that ya I wasn’t right but seriously what if the events happened the other way around. What if we changed roles I would still be the bad guy and technically even worse of a bad guy, but would you be a bad person in any of this no matter what side you played?

I sometimes don’t get the whole incident though. Because on the home front all the afore mention problems vanished after that incident. Her relentless threats of divorce gone, her playing games with intimacy gone, her making ultimatums gone, the relationship literally flipped what seemed like a 180 from a H### brought on by her being found out with her impulsive spending that she wouldn’t let go of initially to a state where it was like nothing ever happened.

Yet the incident which changed the home front for better(not saying let’s do it again) only seems to be an issue during therapy.

As far as advice idk that exact advice but yes I need to be able to tell my wife my thoughts without it leading to see the example of kid home 3 minutes late.

Talking about the session involving the bigger fight. It would’ve been nice that her behavior was addressed too, that perhaps seeing that her being physical leaves me in a bad spot. Obviously I’m not going to be physical back but that she did just invoke a response with abusive behavior. Although my response not appropriate either.

Talking the session about the what time my wife’s going to be done with work.  I’m not sure 100% but maybe somehow assist in the understanding that’s what healthy couples do is share schedules and coordinate, especially when you have kids with activities. I just feel really thrown under the bus though by the last question the therapist asked have I always been jealous? Then my wife uses an example of her inappropriate behavior without describing in detail that yes I was jealous of her ex. After  my wife’s  made a point to cry about the last big fight(physical/name calling fight) then the session ended so I’m kinda felt like I’m left hanging.

[Cat Familiar]

It’s often been mentioned by members here that couples counseling with a BPD spouse can be unproductive. Personally I had much better luck doing individual counseling with the psychologist who saw my husband and me in couples counseling for over a year.

When I saw her individually, she acknowledged that he has a personality disorder, though she didn’t want to specify it.

I don’t feel that we made much improvement in therapy together, but it did help our communication somewhat. However, it was really valuable to me to know that she saw his dysfunction.

As others have mentioned, often therapists will often “target” the healthier member of the couple, as a way of gaining trust and keeping the BPD member engaged in the process. It doesn’t feel good, but good things can come out of it. And we all have issues—otherwise we wouldn’t have ended up in a partnership with a pwBPD.

[Ltahoe]

Ya you guys are probably right, I’m not familiar with the T process. I just leave therapy sometimes, anxious and depressed. I feel ganged up on sometimes and I really can’t vent my frustrations to my wife. I haven’t really to the T either as I don’t want the T to feel questioned and feel like the T is or should be aware that certain things and maybe it’s part of a bigger plan.

I just hate accusations or anything that feels like accusations because my wife’s problem solving skills especially with her own problems are to displace the blame, accuse me of some short fall, stonewall, be passive aggressive while I’m left to sort out the mess. If I don’t accept it at that point and continue I risk threats of aggressive behavior and abandonment. Which for some reason feel very real for me.

I do understand I’ve become hypersensitive to certain things which is not fun. Namely “Accusations” and “abandonment threats” since I’m constantly flooded with them. All I have to do is review some of my feelings and I can’t deny that I have become this way. Which literally is crazy in a way, probably make myself look nuts sometimes. So I’ve come to understand that the best response from me is a lot of times no response to her when it’s meant to cause chaos.

It just gets me because in a fight where we were both wrong, my wife saw big time empathy from the counselor, where I was seen as the big time perpetrator, just validating her as a victim.  Now she has found the way in to the T empathetic side, and won’t hesitate to use it to her advantage and it works almost every time.

I just feel I started counseling cause I can’t walk on eggshells anymore. So I’m not looking to walk on more per se.

I just thought it was weird the way the counselor popped the question at the end of the session. Has H always been jealous, and we hadn’t even talked about anything that pertained to jealousy. Is there speculation that this whole fight was caused by jealousy and not the fact she was physical? is there speculation that I want to know when my wife will be done is about jealousy and not planning? Perhaps I’m overthinking but in a way anytime I’m trying to figure things out that are somehow sensitive to my wife it’s I have problems. So the end of the session with that kind  of question felt like the T is doing the same thing my wife would do attribute all these issues to some problem with me. It’s like why would we even go there? It made no sense to me. Am I supposed to feel jealous for asking my wife what time she’ll be done/home?

Not only that I’m not flexible anymore. I’ve given every last drop I have to give. Can I do what I’m supposed to as a H? yeah will I continue to? yeah. Can I work on myself? Yeah. But I can’t take the blame for everything and I can’t fight to keep us together honestly she needs to step it up. That’s just where I’m at right now. It’s really her turn I think I’ve proven enough. I suppose that’s what it all boils down to.

[formflier]

My experience is similar to Cat Familiar

Overall my relationship improved much more by going to individual T with a psychologist that had several sessions with my wife, that trying to do any sort of couples therapy.

It's doubtful my wife would ever propose it again, and if she did...I would ask lots of questions before ever agreeing.

I'm not saying you should quit trying in MC, but I think we should have a conversation about how you "see" the therapist.

I get the vibe you are looking for someone to "make judgments" when really they are "exploring different areas" and trying to find a productive way forward. (like the jealousy thing)


Best,

FF

[Ltahoe]

Yeah I get it I’m thinking flawed. I feel judged and have somewhat think it unfair that my wife isn’t being judged. I also think can see that now. Probably hasn’t been the  best use of therapy for either of us, proving who’s right and wrong.

[Turkish]

My mother took me to a family therapist when I was 12. She jumped down my throat when I said something she did. Thereafter, she slept in the car while I attended by myself. Then it stopped. I had a marked disdain for the profession after that.  It took 35 years for my mom to tell me that the T told her that I was one of the most well adjusted young men he'd ever met.  

The mother of our children tried to send me to a couple's communication class... by myself.  A year later, to sex therapy... by myself even though she was supposed to participate (I was vindicated by the 2 female doctors after I lightly described an abusive r/s and never went again, since validation was what I needed).

Then 2 years later, culminating with being tricked into joint T even though she had certainly decided to leave me.

I said with the couple's T, and it was the best car down payment ever spent.

When I was in my early 40s, my mother admitted to me that she had BPD, and was seeing a T for PTSD when I was a little kid.  I knew about her Depression when I was 17. I moved out on my 18th birthday. Being a Parentified, latch-key kid drove me. I loved being in my own though living hand to mouth for a few years. I was free.

You likely aren't going to gain growth or perspective in joint therapy.  Get it for yourself.  

One other thing: I purposely chose a male therapist, even though I leaned towards a female therapist, because I had always related to women better, being raised by a single mother.  In whatever way applies, step outside your comfort zone.  

Edit: she pushed to have then S6 evaluated for autism. He was Dx'd with ASD1. She loves to tell others "he's on The Spectrum." Recently, she's been having trouble with D7, our Steadfast child, wanting to test her for ADHD. She told me this again tonight.
D7 has ZERO behavior issues in school.  Her teacher who also had her in 1st grade gushes how great she is. The principal tells me how great both of our kids are. It must be us. Ya think? Projection is the name of the game. As such, it can be hard to get a good perspective.

[Enabler]

I can vouch for FF's and Cat's experience. Like you my W was all tears and victim in the T sessions where I took the role of "sorting it out". There's a couple of key incidents which hugely triggered me (i'll not bore you with them) and the T seemingly intentionally stuck a cattle prod right into those zones... in summary T suggested something, I agreed and then took the suggestion a step further towards being 'normal couple behaviour', T shot me down "Enabler, you just don't get it do you!", when I questioned what I didn't get she said "it's the end of the session". T refused to address what I didn't get in the next session either.

I never gelled with the T and always thought that she was acting for my W.

I think one has to go into couples T in such a zen state free of triggers to make it work. You have to realise there's a game being played and her game is to trigger the living daylights out of you. If you can handle it, it might work eventually as her sights start moving towards your W... but at that point your W will probably just ditch it.

I finally lost it and walked out, T met with my W a couple of weeks later (against the contract we all signed) and told my W that I was abusive and abusers rarely ever change. The owner of the practice, whom I now see was not at all impressed with the T's actions and style and said "hmmmm not all of our T's are all that good in all circumstances, sorry". The T's are freelancers and use the practice facilities a bit like WeWork.

Enabler