Apologize? When spouse is triggered, then projects their bad behavior onto you.

[Depression = 72% of members]

Is it useful to apologize when spouse is triggered, behaves badly, projects the bad behavior onto you and then demands an apology?

Today in summary. I was tired to begin with. Husband has been tense since the early morning. Husband was declaring I was not listening to him (one of his most frequent triggers). When stressed he demands infallible listening from me (including mind-reading). His anger at my failed listening today included yelling,  warnings "You better listen or I'm going to lose it", stone-walling, name-calling me during a church service and walking out and refusing to sit with me for a while (we sat near the back) and threatening to drive away without me: leaving myself and baby stranded on a rainy day. I felt stressed and embarrassed. Very stressful drive home where husband makes unnecessary stops, leaving me in car with tired, crying baby.

In my mind, the moments husband demanded perfect listening and mind-reading   today were unreasonable 95% of the time (eg. husband is on other side of a busy room and I have my back turned).

End of the day, husband is making some attempts to reconcile, teasing me and making dinner. He asks if I am still tired, I explain yes, there is a lot wearing on me. I explain I am tired by social isolation and job stress, I also mention the fact husband is entering into and seeking a lot of conflict in his life and I find that wearing. It may have been a bad idea to tell him this.

Husband admits he felt isolated and insulted by people at church today. I tell him that I had noticed this and was trying to show him my support. This angers my husband. "You noticed this and yet you didn't listen to me. Don't tell me you were trying. You can listen to other people at church but you can't listen to me. I feel tempted to tell you you are not allowed to speak to anyone at church except me. I know that's wrong but its my sinful temptation".

I try to affirm my care and love for husband but this angers him further. He demands I find my own dinner, eat far away from him and sleep in a different room. I start to grab a quick dinner in kitchen and say : "Is there anything else I could do for you tonight".
Husband: (pause) You could apologize for being a terrible wife today.
Me: (pause). I could apologize. It would mean a lot to me if you would offer an apology too.
Husband: (furious). What on earth would I apologize for? Looking after you all day and taking care of our baby? Letting you nap? (He was the one who took a lengthy nap) Being a good husband?

End of scene. I take my food and leave.

Should I have tried to turn the situation around by apologizing? My instinct was that in doing so I would be allowing him to gas-light me and this would add to the power of his verbal abuse. But perhaps the apology would have been the healing he needed?

[blue_watermelon]

Is it useful to apologize when spouse is triggered, behaves badly, projects the bad behavior onto you and then demands an apology?

Today in summary. I was tired to begin with. Husband has been tense since the early morning. Husband was declaring I was not listening to him (one of his most frequent triggers). When stressed he demands infallible listening from me (including mind-reading). His anger at my failed listening today included yelling,  warnings "You better listen or I'm going to lose it", stone-walling, name-calling me during a church service and walking out and refusing to sit with me for a while (we sat near the back) and threatening to drive away without me: leaving myself and baby stranded on a rainy day. I felt stressed and embarrassed. Very stressful drive home where husband makes unnecessary stops, leaving me in car with tired, crying baby.

In my mind, the moments husband demanded perfect listening and mind-reading   today were unreasonable 95% of the time (eg. husband is on other side of a busy room and I have my back turned).

End of the day, husband is making some attempts to reconcile, teasing me and making dinner. He asks if I am still tired, I explain yes, there is a lot wearing on me. I explain I am tired by social isolation and job stress, I also mention the fact husband is entering into and seeking a lot of conflict in his life and I find that wearing. It may have been a bad idea to tell him this.

Husband admits he felt isolated and insulted by people at church today. I tell him that I had noticed this and was trying to show him my support. This angers my husband. "You noticed this and yet you didn't listen to me. Don't tell me you were trying. You can listen to other people at church but you can't listen to me. I feel tempted to tell you you are not allowed to speak to anyone at church except me. I know that's wrong but its my sinful temptation".

I try to affirm my care and love for husband but this angers him further. He demands I find my own dinner, eat far away from him and sleep in a different room. I start to grab a quick dinner in kitchen and say : "Is there anything else I could do for you tonight".
Husband: (pause) You could apologize for being a terrible wife today.
Me: (pause). I could apologize. It would mean a lot to me if you would offer an apology too.
Husband: (furious). What on earth would I apologize for? Looking after you all day and taking care of our baby? Letting you nap? (He was the one who took a lengthy nap) Being a good husband?

End of scene. I take my food and leave.

Should I have tried to turn the situation around by apologizing? My instinct was that in doing so I would be allowing him to gas-light me and this would add to the power of his verbal abuse. But perhaps the apology would have been the healing he needed?

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[frusdad]

I'm sorry to hear this happened, sounds very similar to some of my wife's behaviors.

I think it depends; in my case my wife's rage will continue until I (or whomever she is targeting) apologizes.  In my opinion, she is actually incapable of admitting she was wrong so it's lose/lose if I try to stick to my convictions.  I am never going to get an apology, and things are likely going to get much worse if I press.  It does hurt to have to do this; but sometimes if emotions are running too high it seems to be the only way out for me.

Take that for what it's worth -- but I feel like I'm between a rock and hard place in these situations.

[Harri]

Hi.

Apologizing when you did nothing to apologize for is not a good solution.  It tends to just put you in a more difficult position and further entrenches his belief that he is a victim.   It can also lead to increased resentment for us which is not good when we are trying to make our relationships work.

I also mention the fact husband is entering into and seeking a lot of conflict in his life and I find that wearing. It may have been a bad idea to tell him this.

Can you give some more details about this?  Reading what you wrote, it sounds like it may have been accusatory and while you may be correct in your assessment, it is not going to go over well, especially if he is already upset. 

Are you familiar with the tool Don't Jade?  JADE stands for justify, argue, defend and explain.  When we do these things, it tends to invalidate our partner (whether we mean to or not) and increases the conflict and any dysregulation that may be going on.  It also puts us on the defensive setting up an atmosphere of conflict, or furthering the conflict, and giving the opinion that we actually have done something that needs to be defended.  See what you think after you read the article. 

Don't Jade is one of the easier tools to learn. 

[blue_watermelon]

Thank you frusdad and Harri. It means a lot that you read this and replied. I really want to say thanks.

Harri, I haven't been on this site long, but yes, JADE was probably my first take away here. I guess I'm still learning in which contexts JADE applies. It seems when spouse is calm, its ok to have a "rational" conversation and can even be helpful. The problem is when I make a bad judgement, thinking he is relatively calm but he is actually still reeling inside.

As a follow up to my original post: Husband noticed my new boundary of not apologizing for not hearing him and tried to test it a couple of days later,
"I don't know who the hell as told you this not apologizing is going to make you a better wife and listener but it is not working!"

It is early days, but right now, I think this has been the right decision to stop apologizing, I hope husband is learning I will not accept his manipulation of my mind on this and I am teaching myself I will not walk around our home under the flag of false guilt that comes with it.