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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: I was "unstuck" and now I'm "stuck" again. How much longer?  (Read 1020 times)
Rev
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« on: December 03, 2019, 06:10:47 PM »

A while back, someone wrote to me about the concept of being "stuck" - that there is in that place a chance that likely things are gelling to the point that I am about to be on a break-through.

Made a lot of sense - and for a good while - I was not stuck.  Now today, I am really stuck.

So here is what happened.   My ex uBPD wife is adopted - with classic attachment issues.  Earlier this year in January she locates her biological brother and they fall in love.  All the classic signs are there and it's the talk of the small town where he resides about 30 minutes south of where she lives - and the talk of the surrounding towns as well.  It's gross even to write this, but I can see no other option.  I was and am totally revulsed. Finding the debts she was racking up was what provoked her to kick me out before the rest of the relationship came to light.

My ex an I work in the same organization at different locations. She writes in our national publication from time to time. An article was published in this month's issue about her "re-unification". To say that there are no longer any standards in journalism is an understatement. She throws so many people under the bus it's disgusting. Thankfully, there isn't even a hint that she was married at the time - because of course she knows that would be bad for her career and image - not to mention I have had to issue a cease and desist against her.  The article is oozing with the desire to tell everybody how much she loves him in a romantic sense.

I am not sure what is happening to make me feel so stuck.

I feel no hurt. I am glad she's gone.

I suppose part of this stems from actually being stuck - she's out of control in our organization - no one wants to step up it seems - and my therapist made me promise to not be the whistle blower.

I suppose part of it stems from knowing that my stepsons (her sons) are suffering in some way - they are conspicuously absent from the article even as other family members are not.

And I suppose part of it stems from how disgusted I am, as if there are not enough showers in the world that will wash the filth away.

I just want to get out of being stuck and back on to the healthy road I was on.  I am fearing that this time, it will take longer. And as I enter Xmas, that is really going to suck.

THOUGHTS? ADVICE?

Rev.
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2019, 08:11:55 PM »

Hi RevWelcome new member (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
I am not sure what is happening to make me feel so stuck.
I feel no hurt. I am glad she's gone.

Thank you for sharing your post. I can tell that this is a difficult and painful topic, and I am sorry that she has done this and brought pain to you and others.

When I read your post, I hear a few things going on. I hear that you are not feeling much at all, that there is some numbness going on within you. I also think that I am hearing that you are shocked by her behavior and her words that she wrote, and is it possible that this leaves you feeling hopeless and trapped by circumstances that seem beyond your control to contain? You also mention feeling the pain of other's hurt (stepsons).

So much of what you have shared is a reflection of her and what she has done. If you can focus on yourself for a moment, what are you feeling? Do you feel that this is a reflection on you, on who you are in some way?

Wools
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Rev
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2019, 08:29:54 PM »

Hi Rev,  Do you feel that this is a reflection on you, on who you are in some way?

Wools

Wow... you are good! You got all of that just from what I wrote? I am impressed. You've hit the nail on the head.

I am numb.  And I think that the numbness comes out of the therapy (CBT) and ongoing coaching I am getting to "stay in my rational self" when these things happen.  But boy - was it hard today.  

And I do feel powerless. There is still so much grief to get through but because I feel powerless, I am not even sure what to grieve now.  

And so I am feeling impatient.  I know that I have come so far and I have reason to feel proud of myself. And yet today is one of those days that the mountain all of a sudden seemed so huge.  

Sometimes I liken it to sea-sickness. No matter how many times you throw-up, you don't feel better until it passes. That's because the sickness is not because of something you ate - it's because of your being shaken so much.

So yes... somehow, I feel like I should have prevented this from happening - being with her and knowing unconsciously that it was happening and not being able to do anything except deny it until I got out (thank God I did) was a little bit like watching your house burn to the ground.

There are days still that I ask myself - how could I possibly have loved her. And then, when the sea-sickness passes, I am able to remember that when this all started, I was beginning to fall out of love with her until I really didn't.

The day she kicked me out, I was in shock. I found a new place to stay within days and just kept moving - feeling relief. I got a separation agreement signed three months later - resisting all the charming attempts, which took some doing.

I am taking a few days away from one location to work in my second one - thankfully my employers are very understanding. They know her.  

Rev
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 08:47:27 PM by Rev » Logged
SinisterComplex
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2019, 08:33:08 PM »

It wont take longer. You are going to be alright. First, and most importantly...step back. Read what you have written. Allow yourself to analyze what you are saying. Are you telling me this person is worth any thought? From what I see I would without hesitation wipe my a$$ with the situation and give it a double flush to get rid of the stink as fast as possible.

Man, don't let the holidays get you down. Build new memories and never let anyone else dictate your thoughts, feelings, or emotions. Everyday you must practice self talk and motivate yourself.

To essentially throw up a challenge to you and bring out your competitive fire in you...are you telling me you are going to let her win? Are you going to sit there and be a chump and willingly let someone else affect your life? This is your life and no one else controls its outcomes but YOU!

The holidays will be fine because guess what? The most awesome person you know will be enjoying the holiday without chaos and drama...YOU. That is called an effing win my friend!

Cheers!
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2019, 03:14:24 AM »

is this "stuck"ness, or is it more "something has come up"ness?

just like getting stuck is often a part of recovery, so are "road bumps"; the unexpected stuff that comes up and triggers the hell out of us; and also tests where we are in our detachment process.

if this is "something has come up"ness, feeling something, anger, sadness, depression, isnt necessarily the same as being "stuck"; in the same way that sometimes when a person is grieving, things may get worse before they get better, but in hindsight, all of it is progress.

it sounds to me like you feel you should be further along, that you ought to feel indifference, or nothing.

on the contrary, i might suggest that feelings rising up are an opportunity to continue to do the work of detaching.
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2019, 05:44:36 AM »

It wont take longer. You are going to be alright. First, and most importantly...step back. Read what you have written. Allow yourself to analyze what you are saying. Are you telling me this person is worth any thought? From what I see I would without hesitation wipe my a$$ with the situation and give it a double flush to get rid of the stink as fast as possible.

Man, don't let the holidays get you down. Build new memories and never let anyone else dictate your thoughts, feelings, or emotions. Everyday you must practice self talk and motivate yourself.

To essentially throw up a challenge to you and bring out your competitive fire in you...are you telling me you are going to let her win? Are you going to sit there and be a chump and willingly let someone else affect your life? This is your life and no one else controls its outcomes but YOU!

The holidays will be fine because guess what? The most awesome person you know will be enjoying the holiday without chaos and drama...YOU. That is called an effing win my friend!

Cheers!

You know what - you are absolutely right - yes my competitive side - yes the side that got me out - yes the side that slapped a cease and desist on her - yes - to win on behalf of the people I now work for - yes to win by continuing to make a success of myself that will ... just make a success of myself.

THANK YOU for the kick in the butt.

REV
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2019, 05:48:30 AM »

.

it sounds to me like you feel you should be further along, that you ought to feel indifference, or nothing.

on the contrary, i might suggest that feelings rising up are an opportunity to continue to do the work of detaching.

You're right about the detaching - I've never really dealt the new supply - never even really expressed my anger towards him - never really even allowed myself to see how messed up that whole thing is - never really even took the time to think about how many people he's hurt - never really took the time to put that in the hands of God 'cause only God can address the hurt in others - not me. And I guess that's the next thing I'll bring up with my T.  I am working on a masters thesis on IPV and men.  It will be a glorious thing when it's published.    Thanks for reaching out. REV.
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2019, 09:43:22 AM »

I think your trauma is still very recent. It will take some time to heal. Not forever, but longer than you would like. Be gentle on yourself.

And yes, if it's this public then your feelings will flare up again when anything happens to re-trigger you. This is normal. It's hard, but there's nothing wrong with your process. You are doing great.
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2019, 10:28:51 AM »

Hello, Rev. I imagine that is a lot to take in and process. If you’re ok with it, I’d like to clarify if you’re talking about actual incest between your ex and her bio brother. I’m curious about that to better understand what you’re dealing with, and it also struck a chord with me. I have read, though not often, that pwBPD and their lack of boundaries can lead to incest. I can’t source that off hand, but I have read about it. My ex, whom I share a child with, told me about how she had sex with her aunt’s ex husband. A man she once called “uncle”. Although it’s not biological incest, I find it a bit disturbing. He was in his 50’s, she was late teens/early twenties. She said he had good weed and he made her laugh so she had sex with him. In her case, looking back on everything I can somewhat understand. Without going into great detail, she was basically abandoned by her dad at 8 years old. Her mom had a big hand in this as well. Mom took the kids away, dad didn’t pursue the children. Perhaps it was as simple as her receiving attention from her “uncle”, and she went with it to temporarily fill a void? I don’t know.

Your situation is very different and difficult. I’m sorry that you’re having to deal with this. I think that your T is right. Don’t be a whistle blower. By staying out of it, you will avoid triangulation and the fallout that follows. Are you familiar with triangulation when it’s applied to high conflict personalities?

You’re feeling revulsion over discovering this. Completely understandable. It’s pretty gross, really, but you’re asking about being stuck. That’s a very common thing around here. You don’t want her and have acknowledged that you’re better off without her. You mentioned your stepsons. What was your relationship like with them during the relationship with your ex? What is it now? I sense a bit of worry in your message. Are you concerned about the boys? How old are they? I know, a lot of questions, but the more we talk, the more we can help.

I know that you feel disgusted. Completely understandable. Let’s try to nail down why you are still stuck.
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2019, 10:57:06 AM »

 First, Forgiveness I second your sentiments. When things are public or you have to deal with constant reminders and triggers the process does become a much more complex challenge. However, if we are to believe in the ideal of excelsior than the greater the challenge the greater the reward. Rev, you will overcome this. Once you do get through all of it and you are healed you will be a much stronger person and not only will you be a better version of yourself you will be a more complete and powerful entity.

Rev, place no focus on the new supply, The new supply is essentially a nothing. A phantom, a placeholder, a shell, a vessel. In essence, there should be no anger or any emotion aimed at the new supply. It is meaningless.

For example, in my situation with my ex wife...the other dude didn't mean squat to me. Funny part is he thought it would be wise to try to reach out to me. Did we have contact? No. Why, because what exactly would be the point? What would I gain from it? Nothing. My thoughts were like seriously dude you knew she was married and not only that do you think I am going to console you if she hurt you too? You kidding me? Do you think we are going to be buddies? How exactly do you think the situation would go? Ha...go kick rocks. In a scenario like that you deserve the bad sh*t coming to you and blame no one but yourself because you earned it.

The most recent example...the new supply is nothing special. There is nothing amazing about the guy. She downgraded considerably and why is that? Because he was an easier target to control. I bow to no one.

However, more so she is nothing special. In retrospect, my own mother said it best...you really lowered your standards this time. LOL. I laughed pretty hard at that because as usual my mother was pretty spot on. I was the strong one. What did she bring to the table? MMM...not much. She didn't really enhance my life. She brought me down and there came a point where I had to say like seriously do I have to do everything for you? I cannot tolerate that. Never have I been involved with someone who made such piss poor decisions and essentially couldn't do anything on her own. Its like come on now...quit acting so helpless and handle your own sh*t. Not only that, but she would have never been able to keep a guy like me long term anyway because I focus on progression not regression and being complacent. Also, I need more alone time than the typical person and a woman who is too needy and not strong enough on her own won't work with me.

I mean you have to break away from the anger, jealousy and what I would term the negative useless emotions in the scenario. I say that because those emotions are what keep you tied to it. And Rev, she isn't worth it. The new supply...seriously man not worth the effort.

For my situation it was the catalyst and wake up call I needed. Pain and failure are great motivators that serve as necessary evils to teach you valuable lessons so you can be the real YOU.

I opened myself up to you here to serve as an example that hey I understand how you feel. I understand where you are coming from. If I can overcome my losses, failures, mistakes, bad decisions you can as well man. It is all part of the human experience.

Live life for you to the fullest and drop this negative sh*t show. The best experiences of your life are still yet to come my friend.

Cheers and all the best to you my friend!
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 12:11:35 PM »

pwBPD and their lack of boundaries can lead to incest.

This is correct - it can. I have every feeling that it has.  So do others.

Rev
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2019, 12:14:40 PM »


The most recent example...the new supply is nothing special. There is nothing amazing about the guy. She downgraded considerably and why is that? Because he was an easier target to control. I bow to no one.



Cheers and all the best to you my friend!

Thanks so much for reaching out - it's starting to pass now.  She did down-grade.  That's where it began and where it will end... because I won't be around when it explodes.  Thanks again...

Cheers back,

Rev
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2019, 04:57:24 PM »

For example, in my situation with my ex wife...the other dude didn't mean squat to me. Funny part is he thought it would be wise to try to reach out to me. Did we have contact? No. Why, because what exactly would be the point? What would I gain from it? Nothing. My thoughts were like seriously dude you knew she was married and not only that do you think I am going to console you if she hurt you too? You kidding me? Do you think we are going to be buddies? How exactly do you think the situation would go? Ha...go kick rocks. In a scenario like that you deserve the bad sh*t coming to you and blame no one but yourself because you earned it.

It is very odd isnt it, what makes them behave in such a nonchalant way in terms of this - like oblivious to what they had just done prior, but when needing help, well here is the word that sticks out to me

shameless

but I wonder if there is more to it than even we try to make sense of here with that.

I wondered if a) it is just a triangulation attempt to make contact b) it is some other sick way of just wanting to have contact to be closer to witness the results of the carnage they make or c) narcissistic rooted in the sense of cant handle not being the centre of attention for good or bad, in sickness and in health - etc.

maybe it is a swirly mix of all the above, or none at all.

I conclude with looping back to what you say in a theme on here Sinister "why bother to wonder anyway"

your right and I wish I would have learned a bit more of (a bit tim ferris inspired) the subtle art of "not giving a f"  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Rev
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2019, 04:58:15 PM »

1
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Rev
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2019, 05:05:31 PM »

Hello, Rev.  Are you familiar with triangulation when it’s applied to high conflict personalities?

I sense a bit of worry in your message. Are you concerned about the boys? How old are they? I know, a lot of questions, but the more we talk, the more we can help.

I know that you feel disgusted. Completely understandable. Let’s try to nail down why you are still stuck.

All great questions -

My stepsons - I have not spoken to them directly since June - having been directly forbidden to speak with them. I have gotten word to them through their dad and we will eventually speak - he and I.  They are "okay" and their dad is really good with them he and I have an ongoing relationship. My relationship to the boys was a good one.

They are now 14 and 18 both in high school.  All this is a pandora's box that I am not wanting to open.  I am not sure right now that it won't make things worse - and so their dad and I will make that call. I've been invited to the house when we feel the time is right.  But as I write this, I am realizing that this is part of why I am stuck.

As to other reasons why I am stuck there remains that it really is gross and you can't "unsee" some things, only reframe them.  I am hoping that it will pass, just as everything else passed too.

I am, within our organization, continuing to work on an innovative community programme based on good science that will help men who are victims of abuse, domestic in particular. Funny how things work. Just as my marriage was in its final phases - this mandate just materialized. There are no accidents by times. 

My thesis has been approved by my supervisor, and I am anticipating that some answers will come from there.

One thing is for sure - she is a loose canon in our organization, a bigger problem than I first new. We tend to sweep a lot under the rug and ignore it. There will be a lot of parking lot talk. This kind of thing drives me crazy and so there is a matter of integrity here that I am having to deal with.

Beyond that, I am just literally needing a mental break from the grind of suppressing it. The counselling has done wonders and even I am amazed at how I am still standing.  But this one - it really does gross me out.

Tell me more about why you mention "high conflict" people specifically with triangulation?  Is there something in particular you want to share?

Rev

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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2019, 07:15:41 PM »

Cromwell, there is a reason why I preach the art of not giving a F to the U to the C to the K...because precious mental power and time placed on those undeserving keep you from improving and reaching the success you desire for yourself.

I do not want to offend or hurt anyone's feelings intentionally, but I also have to be true to myself and let it fly. Sometimes there is hell to pay for it but I would always rather speak the truth and deal with the consequences because at least I can comfortably go to bed at night knowing I was honest and I have nothing to be ashamed of. Regret is something I make an honest choice not to live with. Life constantly moves forward so we must always learn, adapt, and evolve. People like me because I am consistent and I strive to earn respect and command respect. I am not so worried if someone doesn't like me because if they don't that is their problem and ultimately as long as there is respect I'm fine with that.

Now a point I have to chime in here with about triangulation. If you ever catch wind of being put in that scenario drop the woman like a sack of potatoes. When women play that bull...shhh it went out the window its all a manipulative tactic and game to see if you will fight for them. Any self respecting man tells a woman like that to go kick rocks. I did not chase after the ex wife. I did not chase after this woman I was friends/testing the waters with for more with and I have had other women try to put me in this scenario numerous times...the end result has always been the same...I win they lose because I won't play that stupid game. What is the prize? What the hell would I really be fighting for? Any woman who attempts to use triangulation is high conflict and toxic...

Specific examples, a co-worker from the past had a bf for 4 months and was unsure of him. She developed an attraction for me working with me. Baked me cookies, had her daughter drawing me pictures. It was cute, but I didn't fall for it. Another friend who was a customer...truly just a friend. She tried to tell her husband I had sex with her and he came in to confront me thinking I had been having an affair with his wife. I calmed the guy down and was like look man I have never touched your wife. I explained I am a divorced man because of the exact thing he thought was going on. We are friends and that is it. Period! He tells me not to contact her again and I am like look man I am way ahead of you. I never had an interest there. I wished him luck and ultimately he was like you are an alright guy and I am sorry about this. LOL.

This happened yet again just recently actually at my current job. I had a guest that came in to buy from me. Now, she came in on 5 separate occasions before she bought. She tells me she is going through a divorce and yada yada yada. Well she emails me, texts me and asks if she can call me at the store and I'm like yeah sure...we had to get her order setup for delivery. What happens next? The husband who she is divorcing calls to setup her delivery and comes into the store puffing his chest out and I just handled business as usual. He was phishing for info and trying to bait me into the macho bs, but it was like are you kidding me...I do not have time for this crap. Same ending...the guy shakes my hand and appreciates me doing my job and realizes he made an a$$ of himself.

His soon to be ex wife calls me and says sorry for her still technical husband coming in and I'm like hey I know you are going through some stuff and I am cool with being friends if that is what your attempt was, but I do not do this drama and nonsense.

Now this exact pattern has followed me for quite some time, but I will never change my response. If a woman has to play that crap she isn't worth the effort and time. It is a ploy to get attention and to gain power and control and it shows me that they are for a lack of a better way of putting it...too dumb to know any better about how to go about getting their needs met. It shows they lack conflict resolution skills and they most likely suck at communication. 

Your boundaries will always be tested. Sack up and do not relent. Make the tough decisions and punt those women good bye!
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2019, 06:53:35 AM »

Hi again RevWelcome new member (click to insert in post)

Thank you for answering my questions, and really for taking that deeper glimpse into yourself. So much of this walk is indeed just that, looking at our reactions and seeing why we responded the way we did/do. So much inner reflection leads to the deeper truths that I feel God wants to show us. There is freedom there, and He has promised that.

The deeper layers often take time to get to and uncover; that's the process of growth and healing. It sounds as if you are well on your way, grasping what that is like because you are already showing those introspective traits and sharing them with us here.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

One thing I'd like to share with you that I learned in T is that when these big triggers hit, those that catapult us into the numbness and disorientation, the emotional upsetting usually lasts for about 3 days before we start to sense the easing of the flooding of our emotions. Knowing this (per my T) has helped me to just ride out the roller coaster and take some deep breaths and hang on because I know it will pass, and it is a normal reaction to something that re-traumatized me. It sounds like you may be on the settling portion of that wave now. Good job.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

The powerlessness that you mentioned...

Excerpt
And I do feel powerless. There is still so much grief to get through but because I feel powerless, I am not even sure what to grieve now.

Oh, the myriad of times I have also experienced this in my relationship with my DH! Then the trapped feeling kicks in and the whole world feels hopeless and dark and I cannot find the light. Another T gem is that I have had to learn to change my focus from what DH is doing to cause me to go there and instead consider what my healthy options are to find that light:

-reaching out to my support people
-practicing kindness towards myself
-engaging in a self soothing activity such as exercise, a walk in the park, a latte, reading a good book, listening to music that speaks to my soul

What things are self soothing to you that would help you the next time something like this happens? We know it will come again because this is life, so what can you do to prepare and what tools can you have in your tool box to pull out and use to help yourself? You and I can only control ourselves. We are powerless to change someone else, yet in changing ourselves we have the power to influence and change others because they see the change and will begin to wonder why.

Keep hanging in there and going forward! There is peace and healing in The Father's love.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Wools
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There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind.  -C.S. Lewis
SinisterComplex
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2019, 01:34:16 PM »

So I want to throw this gem in here. Aristotle said it best... "Quality is not an act, it is a habit." Remember that moving forward in dealing with people in general...friends or romantic. Spot the red flags and think Monopoly...Do Not Pass Go. Do not collect $200.

Wools, "You and I can only control ourselves. We are powerless to change someone else, yet in changing ourselves we have the power to influence and change others because they see the change and will begin to wonder why." - I think I have said this in so many variations I've lost count. LOL. Very well said.

Rev, congrats on the thesis getting approved. I missed that part, but still sending support. Keep on moving forward and more good things will come your way.

Cheers!

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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2019, 02:00:33 PM »

Hi again RevWelcome new member (click to insert in post)

One thing I'd like to share with you that I learned in T is that when these big triggers hit, those that catapult us into the numbness and disorientation, the emotional upsetting usually lasts for about 3 days before we start to sense the easing of the flooding of our emotions. Knowing this (per my T) has helped me to just ride out the roller coaster and take some deep breaths and hang on because I know it will pass, and it is a normal reaction to something that re-traumatized me. It sounds like you may be on the settling portion of that wave now. Good job.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Keep hanging in there and going forward! There is peace and healing in The Father's love.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Wools

All of this was really helpful - but these bits in particular.   So good have concrete advice and perspective from the outside.  Blessings to you.

Rev
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Rev
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The surest way to fail is to never try.


« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2019, 02:00:55 PM »


Rev, congrats on the thesis getting approved. I missed that part, but still sending support. Keep on moving forward and more good things will come your way.

Cheers!



Thanks!
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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2019, 02:16:13 PM »

Hi Sinister

Awesome post, I will be brief so not to take away from Rev's main topic but I found what you say on triangulation accurate reading it today, but not so aware when in the midst of it, I didnt view it as such and having emotions involved it was difficult to recognise it as "fighting for her". The sad part is, I would have fought for her - except what she did was so damaging, superflous and unneccesary it ultimately had the reverse effect. Assuming that this "fight for me" via triangulation is the root cause, it is a good theory, but I got to this stage in recovering from this that im comfortably numb about it all and know I would do different in future. Thanks for sharing your awareness here, sounds like youve been through a lot but I notice a lot of assertiveness in your posts along with rich experience - Cromwell.
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