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Lulu808

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« on: November 02, 2019, 09:10:54 AM »

My BPD/Bipolar DD who is 26 years old has recently moved back in with my husband and I after getting kicked out of her apartment complex for her behavior (raging at the office staff, verbally abusing other tenants, etc.) We support her financially but since she has moved in we have cut her cash off because we realized she was using it to buy alcohol and weed. She is extremely unstable, rages at us on a daily basis - at me on an hourly basis, does not abide by the boundaries we have set for her. She refuses to go to therapy or to get medication to help her be more stable. She barely sleeps. She spends all day getting ready to go out all night to goodness knows where with goodness knows who. When I ask her anything she tells me it’s none of my business and that she will be moving out shortly. She does not help out around the house or contribute positively in any way and any conversation we try to have with her in regards to this results in extreme verbal abuse that has me retreating because it’s so disturbing and emotionally draining. I am slowly learning to withstand her assaults so that I don’t continue to reinforce her behavior and I am trying to stay calm while she is saying vile things but I admit I’m not very good at it yet and more often than not I end up shaking or crying. She has crashed two cars in the last three months and we have told her that she will not be allowed to drive any of our vehicles. Our insurance rates are going to skyrocket. She is very angry about being “stuck” and has told us she is not a person without her car. I purchased her a bus pass for $65. She has yet to use it. I have set boundaries - she must get a job, she must help out at least by taking care of her own things, she must be respectful when she is addressing us, etc. Her response is to take revenge on us by taking our things and hiding them (framed photos from the walls, headphones, pens, collectibles, electronics, etc.) She tells us constantly she is an adult and doesn’t want to live with us. We were determined to help her get back on her feet and we have offered to help her go back to school, to assist her in any way she needs, but she is only interested in meeting guys online and going out. We are really at our wits end here. She does not have a job or any means of supporting herself, so tossing her out would be very cruel but I honestly don’t think I can continue to live like this for much longer. I fear for our personal safety, I fear leaving my house unattended for any period of time, I fear for my daughter’s safety while she is bent on meeting up with all these strangers. If you have any advice for us I am grateful. I have scheduled a therapy appointment for myself because I am not sleeping well and I am in a constant state of panic. I’m hoping my husband will follow suit once I start going. I’m going to look into Alanon and other support groups. How do you help someone who doesn’t want help?I almost feel like she is addicted to the drama that she causes because she sees nothing wrong with the way she is living. I don’t know if we can survive until she comes to the realization that this is not going to be sustainable. Sorry for the book!
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2019, 09:22:30 AM »

Excerpt
How do you help someone who doesn’t want help?

You don't. It's impossible. All you can do is help yourself which
Is why I am so happy to hear about you going for therapy
 AlAnon would be great too.

Is there a possibility that your daughter will find another apartment?
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Lulu808

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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2019, 09:50:19 AM »



Is there a possibility that your daughter will find another apartment?

Right now there is no possibility of that because we are still responsible for the lease on the last one, and she does not have a job. But if she gets a job she can start to save some money towards that goal. She keeps insisting that she can’t live at home because we are horrible to her and ask too much of her. So I try to reason with her as much as possible before the verbal onslaughts begin. “If you get a job, then you can move out and be independent...” There are a million excuses as to why that can’t happen. I’m determined to stay the course.
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2019, 11:01:32 AM »

Can you say more about what staying the course means to you?
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Lulu808

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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2019, 02:20:07 PM »

Can you say more about what staying the course means to you?

What I mean is to be firm and keep our boundaries intact because in the past we have been less than consistent with that - she must meet the conditions we set in order to live with us such as having a job, not using alcohol and drugs, being respectful, etc. I am the problem in regards to not “staying the course” because as soon as she apologizes I get very weak and want to give her grace and understanding  - but it’s all an illusion because in a split second it goes back to the hate and meaness that she displays toward us on a regular basis. I’m like a domestic abuse victim telling myself that if I just keep showing her love and giving her what she’s demanding at the moment that somehow she will love us back and not be so angry and bitter. It’s not true. It’s only a matter of time before she’s back to cursing at me and treating me with complete disrespect. She needs to know that this won’t be an option any longer and that she mustn’t cross those lines. I’m taking full responsibility for my part in this though. I really need that therapy!
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2019, 02:34:31 PM »

That is some great insight. What will you do if she transgresses these boundaries? I often wrestle with the same thing. It is easy to say no. Backing it up takes work I find.
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Lulu808

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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2019, 11:03:55 AM »

What will you do if she transgresses these boundaries? I often wrestle with the same thing. It is easy to say no. Backing it up takes work I find.

Sadly she did just that last night Faith - she called the police on us and told them we were threatening her with bodily harm. I’m so sad. The police told us that the best course of action is to evict her and let her hit rock bottom because right now, living at home with everything she needs she is never going to seek help. I am so sad and heartbroken for my adult child and for us and all parents who are dealing with these issues. I don’t know how to live with this but I am going to have to follow through.
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2019, 11:24:37 AM »

I know how you feel. We evicted our son 2 years ago. It isn't easy but sometimes it is necessary. How are you going to tell her?
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Lulu808

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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2019, 08:57:50 AM »

I know how you feel. We evicted our son 2 years ago. It isn't easy but sometimes it is necessary. How are you going to tell her?

I told her the police told us to have her formally evicted and that no adult child should be living with their parents and treating them like that. Then we had to go out of town unexpectedly and we left her in charge of the house. I fully expected it to be burned to the ground when we returned - one and a half days later - but surprisingly she stepped up. I am taking things one day at a time and trying not to lose my temper with her because she’s at once child-like and sweet and horridly condescending and awful. It takes the patience of a saint so I am failing miserably!
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2019, 10:37:38 AM »

Patience is not my strong suit either. But look where you are! When left to her own devices with no "help" from you she rose to the occasion. This is a good sign she will make it on her own.
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Lulu808

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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 05:35:06 PM »

I sure pray for that Faith! It would be so wonderful if she could become a functioning member of society. She is not hopeless and sometimes I need to remind myself of that, especially when the drama is just never ending.
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2019, 06:15:30 PM »

I too was advised by a domestic abuse specialist years ago to tell my dtr to leave. It was so hard. The worry didn't stop. I had no peace of mind..Slowly I felt the benefit of having a door to close.

I think its incredible how you are holding it together especially with the police being involved. You have done all you can. I'm afraid I agree with the advice of the police. She will soon become resourceful with incredible speed I am sure if she leaves.

The fact she resents you so much reminds me of the saying " I dont want to belong to a club thatwould accept me as as one of it's members".
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Lulu808

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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 06:31:41 PM »


The fact she resents you so much reminds me of the saying " I dont want to belong to a club thatwould accept me as as one of it's members".

Blueskyday That’s funny and incredibly insightful all at once!
When she’s not here I am relieved and then worried out of my mind wondering if she’s ok. Either way it’s what living with a loved one with BPD entails. I think you’re right about the part that she will be resourceful. My goal is to get her out on her own.
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2019, 04:02:36 AM »

Lately I have been thinking that my husband and I have become obstacles to my son's growth. As long as we are around to pick up the pieces he has no real reason to get his act together. He knows what he has to do. He just doesn't want to. Maybe it is somewhat like that for your daughter. As long as she is living with you she has no reason to change. Once she is on her own it will be a different story. I would not be surprised if she showed some new strengths. Here's hoping
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Lulu808

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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2019, 05:18:32 PM »

Lately I have been thinking that my husband and I have become obstacles to my son's growth. As long as we are around to pick up the pieces he has no real reason to get his act together. He knows what he has to do. He just doesn't want to. Maybe it is somewhat like that for your daughter. As long as she is living with you she has no reason to change. Once she is on her own it will be a different story. I would not be surprised if she showed some new strengths. Here's hoping

It’s not as easy as it seems to knowingly do something that will cause our children to suffer, but I cannot fathom continuing on the way we have, especially as my daughter is becoming increasingly more violent and more unstable as the days go by. She has a roof over her head, food, clothing, electronics, all our love and support and she can barely contain her outbursts. She screams that she hates living here in this “prison.” I want her out of my house. I know that makes me a bad person but there you have it.

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Blueskyday
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2019, 05:27:59 PM »

It doesn't't make you a bad person to want peace in your own home. You don't want this situation.

I did it! I threw her out. I thought she had forgiven me but turns out she didn''t . I had forgiven the abuse that led me to give up on her ever changing.

That was years ago. To her it was yesterday.

Steel yourself because there is no easy way forward. In my experience and even as someone very anti meds the only real hope is medication and therapy.
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2019, 08:41:57 PM »

May I offer an analogy? Mother eagles literally throw their babies out of the nest when it is time for them to fly. If they don't do this the young eagles will literally die in the nest. No one would call that bad parenting. I am pretty sure the mother eagles don't feel guilty about it either. Why should we beat ourselves up for essentially doing the same thing with our offspring?
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Lulu808

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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2019, 05:31:38 PM »

Sadly Blueskyday my daughter is very anti meds right now so she leaves us with very little options. My daughter does atrocious things and then gets mad at us for the consequences of her own behavior. They are like toddlers with adult bodies.

Faith - I totally want to throw her out of the nest! Living with her raging has become completely unacceptable. I am ready to do it and I am almost there with being at peace about it.
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2019, 06:37:04 PM »

Mine swam when she left but she was sinking in my home. Everything I did disempowered her. She tried to come home as she lost her house share when pregnant. I was all geared up to do it but the abuse started before she moved back in and I pulled out. She has no idea she is abusive so she just sees my reactions and thinks I am evil.

You need a door to close was what the domestic abuse therapist told me and he was right. He told me imagine this person is your partner and not your adult child..Then he added
what would you do then?
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2019, 06:38:25 PM »

Love the analogy faith..What a shame our nests are emptied so sadly
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Lulu808

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« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2019, 03:54:17 PM »

It’s all so familiar sadly. The abuse is never ending and so are the excuses.
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2019, 04:55:38 PM »

Lulu08 - I think our daughters may be twins....I FEEL YOUR PAIN! I have just come to the realization that mine has BPD and trying to learn all I can - we have all kinds of issues- family who can't surmise day to day life - drugs, outbursts, accusations, daily hatefulness, irrational ideas, converting to the Muslim faith and being angry that the rest of the family will not, and getting angry when we would not allow a new boyfriend to sleep over (that was the catalyst for this last HUGE incident).  I am thinking about writing down EVERYTHING I can remember in the last several years, not sure why I think that might make me feel better but it occurred to me at 3 am this morning.  I say all that to say, you aren't alone, clearly, none of us are - so  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) to you - girls are difficult enough without a PD - we have 6 GIRLS between the 2 of us (blended family) - 4 are nightmares - 1 is pretty good - the other is questionable - hang in there - if I am not locked in a padded room yet, there is hope for all Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Swimmy55
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« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2019, 11:37:48 AM »

Wonderful feedback from all .  Yes, it is so sad when the nest has to empty so brutally.  My DS 's condition got progressively worse when he came to live with me after college.  What little motivation he had to drag himself through classes came to a complete halt once he was faced with the real world after graduating.    He would get food service jobs and " explode" out of them, raging.  But then again, he had steady food, shelter and me paying for his credit cards in between jobs. He became scary as his  drug addiction also got of hand during this time period as well as his mental status.   I definitely got in the way of his finding his way. 

It is terrifying , I know, to face the prospect of having to maybe kick our adult kids out.  However, think of the escalation and progression of the illness and how dangerous that is.  We can help them by helping ourselves.  I like the eagle analogy.
You have got to have boundaries in your own home.  2. What others think of us is none of our business, especially our BDP kids. 
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Lulu808

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« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2019, 09:19:56 AM »

You have all been incredibly comforting and helpful - it really does help to talk things through and to hear others’ stories because there is initially so much shame and guilt. Before I had any idea what was going on with my daughter I questioned my memories, my sanity, who I am as a person and as a mom. It was a very dark time and I have been stressed, scared, shaky, crying, and generally not functioning at my best. This group has helped me feel more empowered and has helped me remind myself that the person my BPD daughter in describing is not me, but a twisted, horrible figment she has conjured up to deal with her out of control emotions.

She is still refusing treatment. Things got very bad, I called the police and she was arrested and I went down and got a protective order, but after all was said and done she was back, living in our home. She made it through Thanksgiving and then the out of control raging and abuse started back up full force. There were steps forward and now steps back. It’s very frustrating. I just know that I can’t let my daughter be homeless in a town like ours - I would be signing her death warrant, so I have to find another solution. For now we are just living the nightmare wondering what she is going to do next. I spend a lot of time praying for her and for all of us and our adult children!
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2019, 09:32:26 AM »

I can understand your reluctance to let your daughter be homeless. I also totally get it that her living with you is an untenable situation. You do need to find an alternative. What might some alternatives be? Is some sort of group home an option? Maybe talk with a social worker and see what resources are available ? Just thinking out loud here hoping others will join in on this brainstorm session.
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2019, 11:26:18 AM »

It is scary thinking of them being homeless. I have to say tho in my experience I often overlook her resourcefulness.

Case in point...Take the child for Christmas I can't cook etc..I stood my ground and she found someone else to provide Christmas.

She always finds a way ...

If you have the means then lease a small apartment and give her the key
 Pay the rent and tell her if she doesn't make money to pay the power she will be in the dark.

Longterm its far safer to plan their exit.
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2019, 12:29:06 PM »

BlueSkyDay makes a good point. My experience and that of others seems to indicate that our children often are more resourceful than we give them credit for.
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Swimmy55
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« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2019, 10:04:42 AM »

Very good reminder about how the BPD adult can be resourceful if pressed.   My smidgen of this came by way of me finding out my 25 year old DS is getting his car insurance and credit cards paid somehow.  Let me tell you, I was paying for his car insurance since Jan 2015 up until this past July of 2019 straight. ( Not to mention his other expenses).  After the restraining order, somehow he has gathered up something to get his bills paid.  I am not sure what / how / who  .  I am going to go as far as to claim this as a small miracle as he is now doing something for himself he could not/ would not do when he was living with me.
I also like Blue's" It is safer to plan their exit". 
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« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2020, 08:10:13 PM »

Staff only This thread has reached the posting limit and has been locked. Please feel free to continue the discussion in a new thread.
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