36 year old sister wont let me see her kids

[Lilsis14]

Hello,

I believe my sister has BPD. We had a huge falling out recently when my husband and I told her we could not be the godparents to her children. It's a very complicated story, but we live in a different country and do not have children of our own and thought my sister's husband's brother and wife would be better suited. Since this time she has completely cut me out of her life and we were extremely close before. I was also very close to her children and am devastated to not be able to see them. She does not listen to any explanation on the matter and has said extremely hurtful things including that she Hope's or marriage ends. I've tried everything. Throughout my life she has been very controlling and up and down with her emotions. She is on medication for ADD but I know theres something more going on. We had a difficult childhood and she has some mental issues from many things in her past. I dont know what to do. I miss my niece and nephew but am scared to even try to talk to her because of the horrible things she says to me and her inability to see the other side to the situation. Help!

[Kwamina]

Hi Lilsis14 and welcome to  bpdfamily

I am very sorry you currently are not able to see your niece and nephew. I can see how tough that must be for you, especially considering you were very close to your sister and her kids before.

How does your sister's husband, your brother-in-law, feel about this whole situation? Did he understand why you thought it better not to become godparents to their children?

Do you currently have any kind of contact with your brother-in-law?

The Board Parrot

[Lilsis14]

Thank you for your response. My brother in law is completely controlled by my sister. He is usually more rational with these types of things but I think he is terrified to go against her. I lived with them for a time to help with the kids and he told me thoughts of divorcing her but was too scared to act on it. Him and I have no contact although in the past I called his phone to try and talk to the kids for their days and he called mine when they wished me a happy bday. He has now unfriended me on Facebook so I'm assuming any contact would be monitored by her. My mom doesn't know what to do and just wishes she would let the whole thing go. I guess now I'm just trying to accept it and maybe the kids will get in touch when they're adults, but they are 8 and 11 so I'm missing out on a lot of time.

[Kwamina]

Hi again Lilsis14

Based on your description of your brother-in-law, it sounds like he's quite heavily stuck in the FOG:

….fear, obligation or guilt ("FOG") are the transactional dynamics at play between the controller and the person being controlled.  Understanding these dynamics are useful to anyone trying to extricate themselves from the controlling behavior by another person and deal with their own compulsions to do things that are uncomfortable, undesirable, burdensome, or self-sacrificing for others.

Do you still have any contact with your niece and nephew at all, perhaps via phone, text etc.?

How is your mother's relationship with your sister? Does she see your sister often?

[Lilsis14]

Yes he is definitely stuck in the FOG, as was I until she cut me out. My nephew is too young to have a phone and I've tried texting with my niece and calling but she no longer replies so I'm assuming my sister has blocked my number or said something to my niece. My mother's relationship with my sister has suffered, less contact, but she still sees her from time to time mainly to see the kids. It's been 3 years since the godparent question was asked and now I've given up trying to communicate to her anymore. I've tried talking to the kids when my mom calls for their birthdays but only very briefly. I dont want to put her in the middle anymore since I know it hurts her as well. Sometimes I fantasize about her coming to her senses, but I think she really is mentally ill and that may never happen. I also struggle with my own guilt of saying no the godparent question even though I know it would not have been the best choice for the kids. It's hard not to regret and imagine that all this could have been avoided. Then I think something else would have set her off. She has cut out other people from her life, I just didn't think it would ever be me. Definitely feeling rejected, regretful, and just plain sad that my family is no longer in my life.

[pursuingJoy]

Lilsis14, this is so hard. I'm on this board because of a BPD MIL, but coincidentally have a little sister who unexpectedly cut off our entire family and moved out of state without warning. She refuses to explain why. It's been about five years now, I'm worried about her kids, too. Thankfully she'll let us follow her on Facebook so on rare occasions we'll see photos of them.

I'm not sure I have much to add except to say that I understand, and that in my experience, sometimes things happen to shift these dynamics. I know that's what I'm hoping for. I also advocate for her in the way that I can - we have some family members who are really upset about what she's done and will try to start drama and gossip every chance they get. If they pump me for information, I ackowledge lightly then change the subject because I want to minimize drama and maintain an open space for her should she ever decide to come back.

Keep us posted, be ready to respond in case she does reach out, take care of yourself, and make sure to let us know how we can help.

You're in my thoughts!
pj

[Methuen]

I am so sorry to hear of your struggle.  Since reading about BPD in the last couple of months after coming to terms with my mother's BP (my determined effort to understand and try to learn how to have a better relationship with her), and after reading your first post, the immediate thought that popped into my head is "could this be an example of a BP seeing things in black or white?"  Inotherwords, because you thoughtfully declined the offer of being godparents, and your sister was not pleased with this...you suddenly became "all bad" or "black" because she was not getting what she desired, despite your thoughtful and well meaning rationale (which a non BP would be able to accept, even if they were disappointed).  I really don't know, but would be interested to know if the experts in the community here think this could be an example of the black/white issue BP's can have.  I guess I'm just trying to apply knowledge from my reading, to a real life situation, but am not sure if it "fits" in this case.

[Lilsis14]

Thank you to all for responding. I joined this platform to feel less alone and it is definitely helping. Its always possible for things to shift, so I guess theres that although my sister is very stubborn and I dont think has ever admitted to being wrong. And yes I think she always sees things in black and white and clearly did in this situation. That's always been so hard for me because I try my best to see others perspectives even hers. I do know how disappointing it must have been for me to say no to the godparent and understand her being upset. Although 3 years later, no contact and not allowing me to see the kids is another level. I'm sorry to hear of MIL and mother with BPD, it would very difficult to be raised by a parent struggling with this illness. I guess all we can do is try to understand as best we can, set boundaries and perhaps, at least in my case, accept that some relationships dont last, even family members. And maybe, because of the difficulty, they shouldn't last.

[formflier]

How was the relationship before the godparent decision?

 

Sorry you are in this situation.

Best,

FF

[Lilsis14]

The relationship before the godparent decision was very up and down. We were very close but fought often. During childhood she often made me feel guilty and like I had more luck when our parents went through a rough divorce. She has struggled with depression and various other ailments over the years. I lived with her for a year to help out with the kids while she was going through some health 2problems. One of my main goals was to watch the kids so she could go to counseling. She went once. She did not like my partner from the start. When I moved to Canada to be with him, get married and start my own life it was difficult for both of us. I missed her and the kids. She and her husband came to visit and asked us right away if we would be the godparents. I didnt think much of it to start, but my partner thought on it for a long while. We discussed and in the end saw his logic. We lived in a different country, did not want kids of our own and there were many other siblings and friends as options. I very respectfully declined and then the PLEASE READstorm started. She said things like she hopes my marriage fails and that my husband is a horrible person. I wish I could see how tumultuous our relationship has always been and let go of her, but we were so close and I was so close with her kids. I understand her being hurt at first but she really has cut me off from her family for this decision, which seems to me like a BPD thing to do. I'm trying to let go and hope that I can eventually accept it was a relationship that perhaps wasnt good for either of us. How does one do this?

[zachira]

Just wanted to chime in and offer another message of support. It is so hurtful when we are blamed by others especially close family members for how badly they feel about themselves. Of course, you are heart broken about not having contact with your niece and nephew. I hope that with time you will get to be involved with them again. Perhaps your sister is overwhelmed by having children and was hoping you and your husband would help her. This is often the case with parents who have mental health challenges. Maybe you could tell her you would still like to help out with the children even though you live too far away to be godparents.

[formflier]

She said things like she hopes my marriage fails and that my husband is a horrible person. 

I see this as a manipulation tactic, hoping you will "see the light" and "come back" to her.  Likely leaving your hubby behind.

I want to commend you guys for wisely thinking the decision through and doing what you believe is best.   

Best,

FF

[Lilsis14]

Thank you for the support. I often feel an insane amount of guilt for saying no, but in the end, it was the right choice for the kids its just hard because we were so close. I think you're both right. She was overwhelmed by the kids and I definitely emphasized how much I wanted to stay a part of their lives. Before she cut me out completely, I came down multiple times for birthdays and tried to show how much I cared even when she wouldn't let me stay at her house. I felt I must have done something horribly wrong for her to treat me this way. I'm starting to realize this is how she would manipulate me when we were younger as well. I always was not there for her enough. I know nobody is perfect and I have faults and probably could have been better, but I think there is a lack of forgiveness with her that I've never had. My husband and I had a wedding after initially getting married on paper and she refused to come. I would still forgive her for this which is maybe crazy. I just want my family back and I guess I never will. I want to believe that when the kids grow up, they are 12 and 8, i might be able to see them. Hopefully they won't hate me by then. Have others on this thread found helpful ways of accepting the loss of relationship with people like this?

[Harri]

Hi Lilsis.

I have never been in your situation of not being able to see your sisters kids.  I can only imagine the pain and I am sure my imagination is not even close. 

One thing I have read that people do is to keep a box for each kid and for each milestone, put a card in there, write them letters sharing stuff about what is happening in your life, how you are thinking of them, birthday cards and such.  When they get older or if contact is re-established you can share it with them.

What do you think?

[Mommydoc]

You are not alone. I also joined this board because I believe that my sister has uBPD. So much of your experience resonates with my experiences. I am glad you have joined this site, as I have found it very supportive and the advice has been spot on!

Like you, my sister and I  were very close as children and as teens, but things went downhill in adulthood.  Like you, as the lightbulb went off for me, in retrospect, I am now identifying past patterns and recognizing that this has been going on a long time. I am so sorry that you are experiencing not only the loss of your relationship with your sibling but also her children. Since you helped cared for them when they were young, it must make it even harder to be cut off from them.

I am my nephews godparent and love him, but the strain of my sibling relationship has functionally limited my relationship with him. We don’t see him often and everything is filtered through the toxic sibling relationship.  Yesterday I sent him an email about a gift card coming in the mail and doubt I will hear back. I share this because, I hope you will realize that you made a thoughtful decision which was the right one for you and your husband. Even if you had agreed to be the godparent, it is likely that another decision or flashpoint would have occurred in this relationship. It is not your fault and please don’t feel guilty.

Like you, I have made decisions that my sibling didn’t agree and support. Her anger and verbal abuse escalated as a result.  I used to take the criticism personally, but now realize that the BPD is living in a sea of turmoil, and projects their pain and angst on those they love. I don’t think either of our sisters will ever forgive us. And that is OK. It has helped me to empathize with her feelings and perspective and seek to validate her when I can.  It is easier for me to set boundaries for my self when I recognize that her pain is not relieved or resolved when I don’t set boundaries. But the boundaries sure make it a lot easier for me and my family! Hopefully you can focus on the non BPDs in your life for love and support.   The kids will grow up and I am hopeful there will be opportunity to build separate healthy relationships with them in the future. Good luck and happy holidays.

[zachira]

There is hope that your sister's children will want you in their lives at some point and contact you on their own. My sister swore to me a couple of years ago that her children wanted nothing to do with me. In the last year or so, both of her children have contacted me, and it is clear they want a relationship with me, even with my sister's disapproval.

[Lilsis14]

Thank you all. I like the idea of writing them letters and hopefully someday they will want contact with me. It sounds like you all understand what I'm dealing with. I so appreciate hearing others stories as it makes me feel less alone. I often think about when I will "be over it" or accept it, and try to figure out ways to speed up the process. After my dad passed away 7 years ago, it seemed like the pain would never go away. It has gotten much better, with random downs. I found so far at least, that it's been easier to accept my father's passing try and only think of the good times. With my sister and family it is more difficult in certain ways because they are still alive and I cant really accept as easily because it always feels like theres something I could do or something might change. Still looking for ways to find peace within the uncertainty.

[Lilsis14]

Also thank you to Mommydoc for sharing your story. Ours seem very similar and it comforts me to know you've found ways to set boundaries and empathize with her pain. Still must be very hard to not know whether or not your nephew gets a gift or if the relationship will get better someday. I hope you had a lovely Christmas/holiday season with your loved ones though. Always good to focus on the ones in our lives that we do have healthy relationships with.

[HardTruth]

I can completely relate to your story.  My sister cut me out of her family's life a year ago, essentially because she took over 2 bank accounts that I shared with my mom without my permission or knowledge, and when I put things back the way they were and asked if we could talk about it, she flew into a rage.  She demanded an apology, and went on and on about "my behavior".  She said I couldn't have any contact with my nieces any more until I apologized for a large list of things that I didn't do, and corrected "my behavior".  My nieces were 11 and 12 at the time. 

My BIL tried to patch things up so that the kids could have a nice Christmas.  We made "nice" for Christmas - and I gave her family the loads of gifts like I always do (my nieces are always excited about "other mommy's" gifts - that's what they call me), and then after that I was no longer allowed to see them. 

It is constantly painful and hurtful.  It's unbelievable to me that I missed my nieces 13 and 12 birthdays, and a year of their lives.  Her punishment certainly had the desired effect of hurting me and inspiring a deep depression where I've contemplated suicide several times - this was also due to how my BIL and sister talk to me.  They feel so strongly about their opinions, and love to give me loads of justifications - they're very smart and their arguments are very good, albeit quite twisted, that it's hard sometimes to pull out of it and not think that I'm a horrible person.

Then...I come out of the FOG again.  I am SO sorry for what you have been going through.  I can't believe that it's been 3 years, just for such a small and simple "slight"!  You said that you've gone down for birthdays and whatnot - were you able to see your niece and nephew even if you couldn't go in the house? 

I have done the same thing that you have...gone over and over my actions to see if there was a way to avoid this situation, or correct it, and end up with the same conclusion each time.  That I did the right and normal thing.

If you had said "yes" to your sister's request to be godparents, and part of the underlying request was that she wanted support, potentially it would have all blown up in your face anyway.  In other words, now you've promised or made a "very important commitment", and if you don't do what she asks and expects of you, now you've disappointed her, betrayed her, gone back on your word, you name it. 

I think when someone with BPD feels vulnerable, tired, stressed out, their coping mechanisms become stronger.  Their rage, entitlement, punishments...etc get worse.  Their ability to see themselves, reflect inwardly, lessons. 

I think you did the right thing.  I think allowing yourself to be bullied, and thus allowing your husband to get bullied as well (he certainly has a right to decide he doesn't want to be a godparent), would potentially only make her feel more entitled; it could support in her mind that her actions are justified, her manipulations are justified.  Does that make sense?

Your BIL sounds similar to mine.  He's scared of my sister.  At first, he actually saw my side of things and tried to help my sister to think in a more moderate way.  He quickly found that that was no way to talk to my sister!  She blew him out of the water, and he has towed the line ever since.  He now realizes that making me the scapegoat means he's out of the line of fire.

My mom is super passive.  She says one thing to me, and another to my sister.  She always tries to be on everybody's good side and not be the target of any conflict.  She will never go against my sister or my BIL because she "doesn't want to lose my sister's love".  She's not scared of losing mine - she's admitted this.  Because I would never withdraw my love if I wasn't getting my way!  But my sister would.  She has many great qualities, but will not stand up for family or what's right if it means getting into the line of fire.  So her and my BIL are both "in", whereas I'm "out".  I don't know if any of this is similar to your family.

Perhaps your sister doesn't like your husband because she can't control him. Perhaps he's less affected by her moods or manipulations, and she feels that?

Anyway, I hope there's some light in the tunnel for you soon. 

[Dani0524]

Hello,

Please respond if you resolved issues with not being able to see your nieces and nephews? I am in the similar situation and pretty desperate on what to do? I haven’t seen my nieces for 3 years.. they are 7 and 11, they grew up with me… they live 5 min away from and yet i am not allowed to see them…