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Author Topic: uBPD DIL making violent threats  (Read 447 times)
Elizabeth22
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« on: November 17, 2019, 02:22:52 AM »

Hi, I am back.
Hope everyone is well.
Things are not good.
I will just describe the latest incident.
I can't get into too much specific detail, I may run the risk of identifying myself if the wrong people read here.

I am basically no contact with DIL. I told my son I have tried and tried and I am done banging my head against the wall. I have limits.

He seems to understand and maintains some contact via phone. If she is there, she will try to join the conversation and I have told him more than once that he needs to find a way to get her to stop that because when I am talking to him, I only want to talk to him, I am not interested in a 3 way conversation.  I said if he has to wait to call me when she is not around to do that, but tonight he needed to talk  to me asap because he has been asking for advice on a situation  re my OGS that was urgent. I have been helping as best I can. No one needs her drama. She is actually part of the problem here, in so many ways.

(I understand how this can be hard for him, being in the middle and I am not  trying to make him choose. I know he needs me now and he needs my help and I want to help and things are just seriously stressful enough without her added BS. I told him there are only so many things I can handle at once and I am in therapy  to help me cope with all that is going on.)

We were discussing said situation and rational, legal options. This is mostly what we talk about, OGS. He is in crisis and living in an out of home placement.  We (husband and I) are actually being looked at for placement, I think, but that's another topic.

She started to interject, I think her mouth was right by the phone, and she started talking in this really crazy voice, in detail, about how she would murder the people involved. It was graphic and detailed. It was scary. I was shaken. She sounded insane. I do not scare easily.

I immediately told my son to tell her to stop it, just make her stop. And he is all "what?".  I said did you hear that? Make her stop making threats. He said she is just blowing off steam and starts defending her. Because that is what he does.  I told him if the wrong people heard that, there could be serious legal trouble, to get her under control.

However, earlier in the conversation she tried to start saying something about OGS's situation and my son did say - I am on the phone with my mother right now, so...

At the end of the conversation, I said to my son, I am going to say what I am going to say and I don't care if you get angry. I do not want her in the conversation. I do not want to hear things like that or anything she has to say. I've told you this before.

Naturally, she would do this regarding OGS, who is not her child, but with whom she is obsessed. The threat was not against him, but she has hurt him before and I found out the REAL story about that, not the cover story my son told, but that is for another day.

Someone did come to me a little while ago and told me DIL did something similar a month or so ago, not as bad, but inappropriate and they were concerned about it. This person is also involved in OGS's situation and helps make decisions for him and expressed concern about OGS being around her at all and suspended some time my son gets with OGS because of it. I am not sure to what extent my son is aware of how her actions impacted him. I do not pass information between people.  There is serious and ongoing concern about her. I haven't told my son that either. I don't know what he is told. I don't ask.

The people involved in the care of my grandson have been confiding in me more and sharing a lot more information with me because they said my husband and I are the most stable and appropriate influence in my OGS's life. I do not share this with my son.

What to do to enforce the boundary? Next time he and I talk, maybe I should just hang up when she starts? Ignore what she says? If I don't say something, she will just keep interjecting.  I think this is how she makes it about her, because naturally the universe revolves around her and her needs.

I need help with enforcing this boundary. I am also really concerned with her obession with hurting people now, or saying she will physically attack them and kill them. I don't know what to do. If I report what she said, which is probably the right thing to do, it will cause a lot of trouble. I hate being in this position because of stupid things other people do.

Thanks in advance.

E22 xo

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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2019, 05:08:04 AM »

Welcome back Elizabeth
What a mess! Is it possible for your son to call you from another location or at a time when DIL is not home? That might be more viable than expecting him to get her to stop.
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wendydarling
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2019, 05:12:19 AM »

Hi E22

Welcome back. It sounds like you've made some progress going NC taking yourself out the firing line, setting limits with your son and explaining why. I'm sorry you were subjected to hearing violent threats, that is concerning.

My question, in hindsight was the call really that urgent? As Faith says he could have stepped out of the house if it was. I think you just need to keep firmly restating not to call you from the house if DIL is there.

If your primary aim is to protect your OGS, being truthful about what's happening, shining a light is important. What trouble do you think doing so will cause, what is your concern? From what you share OGS carers have a pretty good handle on what is really happening, have I got that right?

Does OGS spend any time with DIL?

WDx
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GaGrl
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2019, 09:48:19 AM »

This is about holding your boundary. So if the value you hold is, "I communicate on the phone with respect and privacy," and that value is being violated ( in some cases, by your DIP and your son both), you need to decide what you will do to hold your value, i.e., hold your boundary.

You have options -- you can tell your son to get her off the phone, you can tell him to call you when you can have a private conversation, you can say, "I can't (or won't) have a three-day conversation" and hang up, or some combination of these, or some other action.

In the end, it's your value to define and your boundary to hold.
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2019, 12:53:28 PM »

How would you feel about having control over your limit, E22?

You have to be ok with it. If it's hanging up when DIL interjects, is that something that will bring your strength? Or will you feel disempowered? We all respond in different ways depending on our values.

With my SD22, I have had to be very clear with H about my boundaries. I set them up in advance because that's easier for me. I don't argue about them, I act.

SD22 calls and texts continuously so if H wants to go out for dinner or be intimate with me, the limits are clear. If the phone rings or he checks the phone for her texts during times we are clearly together to connect and be together, I'm out.

I think it's good that you frame things in terms of what you are willing and not willing to endure. "I cannot concentrate during three-way calls in which she is part. I understand you have a hard time preventing her from engaging. I'll make it easier for both of us by hanging up if she interjects. You can call me when it's safe to do so."

And then you have to do it, and you have to be consistent. Every time.

Otherwise the new boundary will feel squishy.
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Elizabeth22
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« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2019, 02:37:02 AM »

Hi
Thank you for responding
The day after I wrote this, I got some really bad news
My OGS who has been in state custody is now being failed by the system
They were contacting me and asking me to prepare to be back up and saying they really need us and they dont want to send him home with either parent, but they dont have a choice at the moment
They are only allowed to hold him for so long before attempting a reunification. They expect it to fail. They are setting him up for failure
The reunification has to be with his parents, for now
If it doesnt work, he may go back to the same group home he is now.  Or maybe with us.
This is an experiment
I am devastated for him
They are also lifting the order that says uBPDdil can't be alone with him because ...I don't know. My son has made up some story she is a changed woman, he tried to sell it to me that night I talked to him and I just gritted my teeth and said that's great I am happy for you


My grandson said he is afraid he won't be able to see me anymore. I told him that might happen, fighting back tears. I told him to never forget we (husband and me) are always here, we will always love him and always think about him and always want to see him, but if it is not to be for now, we have the rest of our lives, never forget we love you so much, this won't be forever. I am crying uncontrollably as I type this.

There's more but it would maybe be identifying
I have read your responses, thank you, I will think about them
I can't even think straight
I am not one of these grandmothers who wants to be in charge or take someone's child, this child has been abused over and over by both parents and their partners

Thank you for your thoughts and kindness

E22 xxxxx


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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2019, 02:51:52 AM »

Oh Elizabeth my heart breaks for you and OGS. The system can be brutal. I am glad you reassured him of your steadfast love and that you tried to put the present situation into the context of your whole lives. It really won't always be like this. Holding you in prayer as you go through this valley. 
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livednlearned
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2019, 06:34:43 AM »

Oh how heartbreaking, E22. To love a child so fiercely and have a system dictating what should happen is not something I would wish on anyone.

Those are powerful words to say to OGS and I hope you are able to see him after he is placed back. Are you able to see him while he is at school?
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2019, 12:02:02 AM »

Bless you,
What a worry. I am a Grandma and I so totally feel for you.

The problem with the phone happens to us too. My Grandbaby is 8 and when she calls me my dtr constantly interjects. I try not to answer her. I basically ignore her presence in the call. Hearing her voice..the tone especially stresses me out. I so totally understand.

I can have the kid for days but we aren't' allowed a private conversation.

Your son's issue is when the call ends he is alone with her and he faces whatever backlash there is alone. He still walks on eggshells with no one to protect him.

There is no love the same as Grandparents love for their little ones. You are doing so much for the child by hanging in there, take strength from this and eachother. Hopefully he will end up where he needs to be with you.
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Elizabeth22
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2019, 08:46:19 PM »

Thank you again for all the kindness.
Just found out she was arrested and looking at jail time.
It was not for a violent crime.
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Elizabeth22
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« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2019, 09:39:21 PM »

Sorry I've been so short with my answers, I have thought about everything you've all said to me, and thank you.

This has been so stressful, I am just letting it consume me. I need to snap out of it.

Found out today that her being able to be alone with OGS is probably off the table now, due to her arrest.  There is no doubt she is guilty as charged, she was caught red handed.

When I found out about her arrest,  I called my son and told him I knew and asked if he wanted to talk. He said no, but he did tell me the day before that 2 really bad things had happened but he didnt have time to tell me at the moment.  Anyway, I let him know we could talk and I would not be judgmental or anything, I just want him to know I am here.

This may affect the amount of time he gets to spend with OGS, we don't know.  I vascillate between feeling sorry for him and then thinking that all the decisions he has made have brought him here to where he is now.

Same for DIL, I try to see her as someone who is sick and in need of help, but I am not the one to help her, I can't. Or, she is just an absolute demon who doesn't care who she hurts or how.

If she goes to jail, I don't know what will happen with my son or younger grandson (her son).

I worry he will ask me for help. No help I have ever given him has mattered or actually helped. I can't help someone who won't help themselves. Plus, he is perpetually ungrateful. I feel guilty for not wanting to help this time. I can't be permanently ensconced in his baby mama drama for the rest of my life.

I have decided that if he calls me when she is around and tries to get into the convo, I am going to ignore her, because I do think she is trying to get my son off the phone with me. I am just going to treat her as if she does not exist. I know she hates that, and part of me might be vengeful about it, but I am tired of her trying to control everyone. I should be mature enough to ignore her childish taunting. If she gets to be too much, I will make up an excuse, unrelated to her, as to why I have to get off the phone, and then politely do so.

I don't know how this will impact OGS, because a plan was being finalized so he could spend basically equal time with mom and dad and he seemed excited about it and I don't know how this will be explained to him or who will do it. CPS said this definitely screwed things up and mom now seems less willing to work with my son. I can't even blame her.  It seems as if the co parenting relationship that they just started getting better at, with the help of therapy, has been blown up by this.

I just hope I get to see OGS when he gets out of where he is now.

ETA - Sorry, I forgot to answer about whether that call he made to me that night was urgent. It was. It was about seeing OGS and a solution I had suggested that had worked a week before was not working that week and he didn't know what to do. That is also what was so infuriating about it, was that he was in some distress, we were talking like rational adults and she comes in with psycho talk and throws it all off track. She is so jealous of and obsessed with OGS and it's so apparent, so obviously my son and I are not able to troubleshoot ideas without her getting involved. But, when I complained about it, my son said I sounded "paranoid" and made excuses for her. So, that is something for me to think about too.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 09:48:47 PM by Elizabeth22 » Logged
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Elizabeth22
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2019, 09:34:04 PM »

DIL, who I have not spoken to since March, called me today.
She wanted to discuss OGS. I really think she's insane.
I am not sure if I violated my own boundary by speaking to her.
I was taken aback it was her, and I said I have nothing to say to you and I will not discuss OGS with you. I felt I needed to say it tho, instead of sending messages thru my son. As I was hanging up, I could hear her saying she was sorry and she understands. Both hard to believe since she already knew how I felt. It did feel good to say it to her tho and know she heard it from me.
Found out she's been on a stealing spree for a long time now, and it's worse than we thought.
I no longer feel sorry for my son if he chooses to live like this.
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2019, 04:47:40 AM »

Oh Elizabeth I'm so sorry  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

I don't see you violated your boundary. You communicated your message clearly and firmly, 'I have nothing to say and will not discuss OGS', which has been the case since March. I'm glad it felt good to say it E22 and that DIL heard directly from you is important.

Excerpt
I worry he will ask me for help. No help I have ever given him has mattered or actually helped. I can't help someone who won't help themselves. Plus, he is perpetually ungrateful. I feel guilty for not wanting to help this time. I can't be permanently ensconced in his baby mama drama for the rest of my life.
I understand, one lesson we learn here is if our approach is not working, change it and this is what I'm hearing here, time to step back and let the responsibility sit where it belongs. What kind of help do you worry he'll ask of you?

WDx
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Elizabeth22
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2019, 03:18:12 PM »

Hi  WD   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.
After giving it more thought, I do think it was best that I give that short message to DIL myself. Thank you for the validation.
As for my son and what he might ask for, well in the past he has moved back in with us, we've given him money and help with legal issues. If she goes to jail, he won't have a place to live or anyone to take care of YGS and we just can't keep stepping in because he and the mothers of both his children continue to fail at being adults and parents.
Really,  there isn't anything I can do.
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