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Author Topic: So glad to find all of you -- after another couples therapist fail  (Read 511 times)
Wulphesse

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« on: November 19, 2019, 10:06:09 AM »

Hello  bpdfamily,

I'm very grateful to have found this site after 16+ years of life with a BPD spouse. It is such a relief to see others who have a view from the inside the tornado, and to know I'm not alone.

While it's been a long journey, what brought me to my knees recently was a couples therapist who was willing to tell me he is confident my husband has BPD, but was unwilling to relay that information to my husband or to work with us. He was the second couples therapist to name it (again, only to me), but was much more specific and certain. My own therapist has suspected for a long time, but has never met my spouse and has only my stories to go on. (And who wouldn't hear those and think I was exaggerating, right?)

I have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and I'm in the "power tools" section of the "Family Guide," and these seem not only to explain my experience but also to bring together a lot of the tools I had already started using out of my own desperation: therapy, meditation, mindfulness, 12-step tools. It's a huge gift. Twice already the tools have helped me diffuse situations that would otherwise have gone haywire.

Things started to deteriorate rapidly about 7 years ago, when a move took us away from a very supportive community. Unfortunately, it was my job that necessitated the move. As you can guess, suddenly everything became my fault and so it has been since then. The rages got worse, as did the emotional, verbal, and physical abuse. But he usually controlled himself when others might hear or see something. He also kept his rage focused almost exclusively on me and so I stayed because it seemed the only way to (imperfectly) shield my daughter from his volatility. Leaving seemed more dangerous -- for both me and her.

The good news: my daughter is 14, and based on at least 2 therapists' evaluations (and TONS of reading and worrying on my part), is thus far relatively unscathed. She's happy, healthy, and just a terrific young woman.

I have fared less well, but I am actually in a better place now than I was a few years ago thanks to working with some of the tools without even knowing it. I look forward to learning more and improving my skill with them so that maybe I can live in a bit less fear and a bit more serenity -- or maybe even happiness. I know I have a lot of work to do on myself, and I'm still grieving the loss of the person I know is under the disorder. It's been such a LONG time since I saw that man.

My husband has other diagnoses, and no one has mentioned BPD to him that I know of since his initial evaluations about 30 years ago, but he is an exemplary manifestation of the covert, high-functioning, BPD with narcissistic characteristics. His mood ranges from sullen to irritable to rageful. With others he can carry on a conversation. He will cheer his daughter on at athletic events, but often rages at (thus far only in emails) or about the coach on the sidelines. He doesn't usually talk to me unless it is about logistics (trash out, pets fed, etc.), but when he does it is usually to criticize or attack (2 days ago I was talking to a female friend and he accused me of having an affair), or complain about something I did or didn't do. That's unless he's raging. Then everything is game. But most of you are undoubtedly familiar with that.

Thank you for reading this, anyone who does. It's remarkable just believing that someone out there understands -- and has a sense of the myriad things I didn't include here. Thank you for being out there!

Wulphesse
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 11:46:03 AM by Harri » Logged
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GoldenBubble

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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2019, 10:09:29 AM »

Thank you for posting this.  Also married to a man with borderline traits and diagnosed with narcissism.  I thought I was the only one. With affection (click to insert in post)
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2019, 10:30:11 AM »

Hi Wulphesse and welcome! Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I'm sorry for the circumstances that bring you here, but I am glad you've found us. As you've seen (or will see by looking around), we "get it." We've been there or are still there ourselves.

The blame game is a familiar one to me -- and to others here. And, as you've discovered, stressful situations can really trigger a dysregulation.

I'm glad you're seeing a counselor and working on skills and tools. There are a lot in the books and a lot here on the site. That's a huge step in the right direction.

You mention abuse. How long has it been since the last incident of physical abuse? Do you feel safe?

Again, welcome and keep posting! Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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Wulphesse

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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2019, 10:50:34 AM »

Thank you both!

As to the abuse, I wouldn't say I feel "safe" because as we all know things change in a second. But it's been about 5 months since a real physical threat (he chased me around our yard trying to run me over with the tractor).
I've done the Mozaic (if that's the right name) evaluation, and it pegged us at a 7 out of 10. I've got various safety plans, but the major issue is that my 14 year old daughter won't leave the house even if I tell her we need to go for a bit. I was last able to get her to out about 2 years ago, and have been able to sidestep the physical violence (tractor, and object breaking aside) since then.

The recent therapist refused to work with us after meeting us both because he was afraid of my husband's rage and that he would become the target (yeah, gee, thanks). The previous one refused to call him on any of his aggression, verbal or emotional abuse, or intimidation because she "was afraid for me if she did." As if that would prevent it? Whatever.

When he got violent two years ago I was able to get my daughter to a friend's house and I stayed in a hotel (because I didn't want him to target that family or know where she was). At my therapist's urging I called every shelter and abused person's hotline. The reaction was AWFUL. In one case, I described what had happened -- he had picked me up and thrown me against a wall -- and then she asked if 1) I was employed (yes); and 2) if there were guns in the house (no, removed 15 years ago when I had called the police). Her response: "And, let me get this straight, you think you're abused?" She seemed disbelieving. I told her I had evidently called the wrong number, and hung up.

Every other place either said unless he had attempted to kill me or had guns in the house they couldn't do anything, and didn't have any room, and that my daughter (12 at the time) would be put in a foster home no matter what because none of the shelters took children.

I had not expected this type of response from every one of the 5 places I called. As a result, I stayed.
So, "safe?" Not so much. But when I have attempted to call the police it escalates things immediately and puts me and my daughter in far more danger. Most recently I have stopped responding and reacting at all, to the best of my ability, to avoid getting upset myself. When I used to argue with him, he would threaten to call the police and tell them I was being violent to get me removed from the house. It has become easier to "walk on eggshells" and try to minimize the extent of the explosions.

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Ozzie101
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2019, 12:20:06 PM »

I'm so sorry you've run into so much trouble. And, yes, you should have received better treatment. I had the opposite experience where I am (no physical abuse, but they were very supportive and understanding) but, unfortunately, some resource centers just don't have well-trained staff. And not all therapists are well-versed in this either.

I and others here have learned from personal experience that couples counseling can be a very thorny thing in situations like this. One time when I went along to H's therapy session (at his insistence), I ended up getting berated for it afterwards. Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

I'm very glad to hear that you have safety plans in place.

Do you have a close friend or family member who is aware of what's happening? Someone you can trust and confide in?
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Wulphesse

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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2019, 01:06:20 PM »

Thank you Ozzie101,

While it really hurt at the time, I have to believe my experience with the shelter/domestic violence community is an aberration. I don't take it personally, it just happened to me.

 I don't have much family support (the background is how my pump got primed for the situation I'm in, and I've made some progress working on that), but I do have a good friend who knows exactly what is going on -- although she lives 2,000 miles away. I try to stay accountable and visible to others who know bits and pieces, but I also try to be discerning about how much I share and with whom.

I can only image the dressing down you received after attending that session.
The violence 2 years ago was what allowed me to reintroduce counselling at all -- for years he had refused, saying I was the problem and "just trying to change him."  --- Okay, maybe that last has more than a grain of truth in it Smiling (click to insert in post)

We had tried several attempts early on in the relationship and he stormed out of two and refused to go back to another. I know ... I should have known then. And then he went to treatment ... for codependency, he said. He came back using all the tools. That was 14 years ago. The tools dropped away. But the more miserable he became (even before the move), the more he suffered, the more it came out as anger at me and the more he insisted on staying angry. And that's where we've been. Like a transmission locked in reverse.

While I can now see why couple's therapy is dicey at best, at least the last two suggested/confirmed the BPD piece. And for a while I experienced some validation, there was a witness.

Now, he only sees someone (at least I think he does) for meds management (the diagnosis he accepts is BiPD, as diagnosed when he was 14, which was more than 30 years ago and it may indeed be co-morbid). He's gone off his meds in the past and now seems to just tell them what the diagnosis is and what meds he's been prescribed previously and he's able to pick and choose what he takes, it seems. He's taken almost everything that's prescribed for BiPD, depression, psychosis, etc., but doesn't do anything recreational now (that I know of) -- he's been "sober" for almost 29 years (we met in recovery), but says that he "doesn't get anything" from continuing on that path any more, although he isn't actively drinking or using now that I'm aware. I don't get involved (or even ask) about his meds any more (I've learned), and I don't ask or talk about anything recovery related anymore either, although I continue my own recovery.

Yeah, it's messy. But at least there is this space. And getting someone who has met both of us to identify what I suspected all along REALLY lightened the load. That's not to rule out BiPD necessarily, as it co-occurs frequently I gather, but there is no "polarity" with H. It's all sullen, irritable, or irate, all the time, just along a spectrum. It does make it easier to believe I'm not the WHOLE problem, though. And now I know I'm not alone! Smiling (click to insert in post)





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Ozzie101
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2019, 01:48:14 PM »

You're most definitely not alone! Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

You know, there may be some more national hotline resources that may be able to give better, more compassionate help and advice. It wouldn't be "boots on the ground" necessarily, but sometimes just having a trained person to talk things through with can make a big difference. What do you think?

My H has been all over the map on therapy. He, too, sees someone for med management (depression and anxiety), though nothing he's tried has ever worked. Early this year, he finally found a therapist he actually clicked with after trying several different ones over the last few years. I'm fortunate in that he was willing to give it a try without any prodding from me. Before her, though, he was very negative about therapists, saying all they do is take your money and get you "hooked" on the sessions. He was VERY resistant to my going to therapy on my own so, late last year, I started going in secret. It's all out in the open now and, while it still makes him anxious (doesn't know what we're talking about, which is a trigger for him), he doesn't try to stop me or talk me out of going.

Last year, I was convinced I was a failure as a wife and everything was my fault -- of course, H kept telling me that so it must be true, right? When my eyes were finally opened and I learned about BPD and found this place, I can't describe the relief.

I'm glad you have a friend you can confide in. Is there someone local you can count on? You wouldn't necessarily have to tell them details. My therapist recommended this: Choosing a trusted friend or family member and working out a "text code." Sort of a safe word or symbol. If I were to ever find myself in a potentially bad situation, I could send a quick text to that person who would then do whatever we had decided on before (call the police, call my H -- which could "snap him out of it", come straight to the house, etc.).

It's just an added layer of safety and security.
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Wulphesse

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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2019, 02:06:27 PM »

Now that I feel more confident about the BPD part, I'm actually thinking of taking some of the training offered by the NEA and others. I'm open to a national hotline, but I have to be careful. I can't call anything from my cell phone without his finding out -- he has that bill delivered to his email and changed the account so he is the "primary" and therefore has to approve any requests to view the bill. Of course he won't even give me permission to log in to see it.

I don't even want to know ...

I can only log in to this site when I'm at work -- where of course it's monitored by work  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  -- because he's hacked my home laptop. AROUND the facial recognition. Eye roll.

I feel like i'm just crawling out from under a rock. I've spent 5-6 years believing I was a complete failure in all areas. It didn't help that I walked into a work environment that was toxic and full of bullying (at least at first, I've found a way to work through much of that now). I used to be under my desk crying at least once a week either because he would call and rage or because someone at work would act cruel. Thankfully, I'm in less constant pain now and can start to look for ways I can take responsibility for my own experience and actions.

The emergency text code is a good one. I'll have to think about how to implement it. I'd have to just have them call the police, we live in the country and my only close friends are 75 yrs and older, and I couldn't put them in harm's way. I think only one of them has a cell phone, but she might be willing to set up a plan. Thank you!

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Ozzie101
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2019, 02:21:15 PM »

I, too, had to be secretive. I scheduled therapy/DV counseling during the day and took sick time. My boss was aware of what was going on and was very understanding and supportive, so I was lucky there. And I log on here at work. While H and I are in a much better place, he has no idea about BPD or about my membership here. Telling an undiagnosed person they might have BPD tends to go very badly, so that's something that will just remain a secret.

I'll see what I can find out about a national hotline, just in case.

Edited: This is the national support hotline: 1-800-799-SAFE and it's been recommended here a number of times. Do exercise caution, but if you are able to contact them, please let us know how it goes.
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Wulphesse

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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 11:10:19 AM »

Thank you!
I'll keep you posted on any interactions with the national hotline.

Yes, I am in a similar situation -- although I am also primary parent, so I've nearly maxed out my sick leave. I have no plans to tell H about BPD diagnosis.

So, I'd love your feedback: I just posted a reply to Cat Familiar's "living w pwBPD ... exhausting" post. (let me know if it's easier if I copy and paste the post here).

I see (some) of what I did wrong in the situation. I just don't know what to do, we need to make some decisions in the next day or so, and now he's likely to be furious until next week.  I GET that the executive function piece is too much, I GET that he must want me to just keep my mouth totally shut and say nothing until he tells me "how it is." I also GET that when I do that, he's angry because I'm NOT listening.
And now I'm back in a no-win situation: If I go ahead and make plans, then I'm really taking over. If I don't make plans, he'll blame me for anything my D misses out on.
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2019, 11:28:07 AM »

It can be so baffling, can't it, when something so seemingly benign can trigger such a strong negative response? I'm sorry. I've been there.

What do you think would happen if, sometime before you have to make decisions -- might gauge his mood/receptiveness, you say something along the lines of "Hey, have you given any more thought to D's team? I'd love to hear what you think about it." Keep the tone light and breezy, calm, ignoring what happened earlier. What do you think the response would be?
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Wulphesse

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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2019, 11:52:36 AM »

Thanks.
Yeah, I generally try to give him PLENTY of lead time and then introduce it gently, like you said.
Whew! At least I was on the right track in doing that.

This one came up last night at 9pm, and we have to make a decision by this evening.
He seemed somewhat positive (specifically about this) last night.
In the last 2 hours he's lit a grass fire in my work and home emails.

Maybe what I'm most disheartened about is just the general inability we have to communicate. Recently we can't even discuss the simplest things. Even the weather LOL.

How do I use DEAR to help set boundaries when H hasn't had an honestly calm, good mood that I can remember in years? It seems that to use DEAR, I should try to choose a time when he's calm. But I haven't come across that opportunity in the months I've been hoping to find it. So I resort to SET -- when I'm not just outright ignoring something or attempting to extinguish it.
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2019, 12:22:48 PM »

When our loved one is in a major, long-term dysregulation, sometimes we really can't use SET or DEARMAN effectively. It becomes more about just avoiding the land mines -- at least as far as I can tell. Someone with more wisdom and experience can pop in here!

For me, I've found the best thing I can do is try to keep my own attitude positive, give him plenty of warning/lead time, then let him know what I'm going to do and when, opening the door to comments. If he has an opinion, he'll give it and I'll take it and we'll go forward. If he doesn't, I go ahead with what I'd planned.

Now, that doesn't work for every relationship. Your situation sounds more volatile than mine. And if he's deep in a dysregulation mode, he may be less likely to be reasonable and rational.

Don't let yourself get worn down or bogged in the hopeless feelings over communication problems. Easy to say, I know, but if you look at the forest, you can easily get overwhelmed. For now, in this crisis, look at the tree in front of you. Focus on that. The rest of the forest can wait until you've dealt with the current issue.

Are you responding to his emails? What sorts of things is he saying?
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Wulphesse

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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2019, 12:36:12 PM »

Wow!
Thank you!
I can't tell you how much weight you just lifted off my chest!
 Way to go! (click to insert in post)

Just how COMPLETELY you GET it is such a relief.

And yes. Forest for the trees. I've had some mini successes with SET and a modified (in the moment) DEAR/MAN

He has sent me spreadsheets with highlighted dates and a few comments, but nothing really nasty, so that's not so bad.
No. I'm not responding. I was taken off-guard by his response on the phone somehow I wasn't expecting it. DUH. I'm amazed at how easily I can be knocked off guard. I KNOW he is who he is, how he is. I know it's not "if" it's WHEN he gets angry again, and that will be at least once every 12 to 24 hours.

Yet, I baffle myself by the intensity of my response/reaction. I still get hurt/frightened/anxious/distracted.

So I didn't want to respond because I couldn't do it from a calm place. But your response had an immediate, calming impact. Thank you!
I'm going to take a few more deep breaths, try to give myself a break, do some mindless/sorting work for work, nibble on lunch.
Then I will  be able to respond rather than react, I think.

Thank you!
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2019, 12:37:20 PM »

When our loved one is in a major, long-term dysregulation, sometimes we really can't use SET or DEARMAN effectively. It becomes more about just avoiding the land mines -- at least as far as I can tell. Someone with more wisdom and experience can pop in here!

I surely don't have more wisdom and experience than the Great and Powerful Ozzie ;-) but I would tend to agree. Sometimes my uBPDw gets into a volatile and hypersensitive state with hairline triggers (get it?) for an extended period of time. I have been unable to do much more than attempt to find shelter from the storm until it settles. Sorry about that. :-(

And if he's deep in a dysregulation mode, he may be less likely to be reasonable and rational.

ABSOLUTELY!

Don't let yourself get worn down or bogged in the hopeless feelings over communication problems. Easy to say, I know, but if you look at the forest, you can easily get overwhelmed. For now, in this crisis, look at the tree in front of you. Focus on that. The rest of the forest can wait until you've dealt with the current issue.

Preach Ozzie! Spot on.

Stay strong!

 - MLC
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Thank you for every kindness. Thank you for our children. For your guts, for your sweetness. For how you always looked, for how I always wanted to touch you. God, you were my life. I apologize for everytime I ever failed you. Especially this one...
Wulphesse

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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 12:49:48 PM »

Thank you!
I actually think this is a good opportunity to choose not to respond at all -- at least not during the work day.

I will let it be for now, and gauge his mood/temper when I see him tonight. I have gone through the information on my own, and have some ideas about different options (for the issue at hand: does D join this team, can we logistically support it), and will see if he is in a place to share his ideas or opinions.

If he's able to do that, maybe we can find a solution that works for us (and D). If not, I can probably ask the coach for a bit more time.

Thank you both. At least I don't feel like I did anything drastically wrong anymore.

I guess there is part of me (a big part, really) that wants using the tools to make things work out the way I want them to work out, so if he is still uBPD and acts the way a pwBPD acts,  I feel like I failed.
Hilarious.
But not really. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2019, 12:54:42 PM »

Excellent, Wulphesse! Taking a break to calm and center yourself is very wise. We rarely (if ever) respond well or in a healthy way when we're feeling triggered.

And feeling triggered in a case like yours is natural. I went through a period late last year when my H was regularly verbally and emotionally abusive: lots of blaming, trying to cut me off from friends and family. He never laid a hand on me, but he broke our oven door, a platter an old family friend had given us as a wedding gift, blocked me from leaving a room/conversation, screamed (literally) in my face, etc. Once, before I realized what was going on, he ordered me to make a list of all the ways I'd failed him. What baffles me to this day is that I actually did it.

Not trying to make this all about me. But it's just to illustrate my point. We haven't had a real incident since January. I've made major strides in communication and managing my own emotions and he's made HUGE progress. That said, if he gets moody or starts to get upset about something (even though it's never aimed at me anymore), I get nervous. Shaky. Anxious. Want to just run away and hide.

I've made progress in mindfulness and that has helped, but the panic response is still there. It's normal. Be kind to yourself. But be aware of it. Separate what you're really afraid of in this moment from your past and what happened before. Really listen to what's being said in the moment. It's so easy for past trauma to bleed into the present. (That's often times what's happening with our BPD loved ones as well, actually.) I have to stop and mentally tell myself "He's mad at SS's teacher. He's not mad at you. He's not even directing any of this at you." It's a trauma response.

Keep us posted on how it goes!

Edited:
Excerpt
I guess there is part of me (a big part, really) that wants using the tools to make things work out the way I want them to work out, so if he is still uBPD and acts the way a pwBPD acts,  I feel like I failed.

Natural. And I've felt the same way, at times. Part of the process is being able to accept that we can't "fix" our loved one. We can play a role in making things better, but much of it is not in our power. Frustrating, particularly if you're a "fixer" like me!
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Wulphesse

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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2019, 12:58:52 PM »

Very wise words, Ozzy101.
Thank you.
I'll keep you posted.
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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