Out of the blue...

[Parents! Get help here!]

So, out of the blue these are the texts that I just received from my son.  He was always so loving and can still be so loving when I see him in person.

Two incidents with my husband (his step-father) - one in 2012 where he mistook my son's disregulation after his Grandfather's funeral for drug use, and one in 2017 where he had the police come and take my son to jail when he was disregulated.  My husband is the type who "won't tolerate any form of disrespect".  My son showed the slightest bit of anger when he was visiting and the result was that.  Granted, my husband wasn't sober at the time.  So I'm the one in-between.   Years of trying to fix this and I can't stop the rumination on his end.  Sorry this is going to be long and thanks to whoever is willing to take the time to read here are the texts copied and pasted exactly as he just sent them:

"If I broke something of M's you could be sure Id pay for the damages. If someone broke something of M's and then threatened him instead of offering to pay for the damages how would M react? Well he better not expect me to act any f****** better than he would. End of story. Pay for your damages. I was happy with the agreement to act like you didn't exist 10 years ago before you created the f****** damages. Pay for your f****** damages. I'm not allowed to text you but what's going to f****** happen if you don't pay for the f****** damages
doesn't matter it's all over I'm never going to see you again and if you ever do see you again you're not going to have a son or a husband

M wants to come he's running out of the f****** house yelling that he's going to kill me? Noo all f****** loyal are you f****** piece of s*** you brought this on yourself the only solution is your elimination you f****** piece of f****** s***. nothing is coming at you that isn't what you already did the other people you f****** stupid f****** piece of s*** you stupid f***

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction you brought every single bear this on yourself you stupid f***

Sorry I don't know what to say. All that is simply the solution to an equation that I did not create. I guess I'm just pissed right now cuz I just had to borrow a bunch of money from my dad that I wouldn't have even have owed to anybody if it wasn't for the years of the depression that you guys like to pretend had nothing to do with you never mind that I owe all this money now afterwards I had to go through those years of depression I should be suing his f****** ass off which includes you if I sue him I'm suing you too you should be leaving him no one should be treating anyone the way that he's treated any f****** one.
So the closest thing I can do to the right thing is never see you again. if he wants to do the right thing he can pay legitimately for his damages

Or look over your shoulder every day for the rest of his f****** life I'm going to sign up now cuz otherwise I'm going to spend the next ten hours threatening a piece of s***

I'm sorry I don't want to fight. I can't fix this. I just have to distance myself as far as I possibly can from it. I just wish there was some way to fix it and I don't see any other way to fix it any more of them to act the way I was treated and that doesn't work either it's just weird it's not a hormone line goes where my whole body goes on PTSD hits just stupid. I want to fight I just wish there was a way to fix this it's all in the hands of someone who won't fix it. Apparently all he understands is frickin crazines. There's no regaining the lost years."

I'm telling you because I can't tell anyone else.   If my husband saw this he would tell me to block him forever.

[Resiliant]

So, out of the blue these are the texts that I just received from my son.  He was always so loving and can still be so loving when I see him in person.

Two incidents with my husband (his step-father) - one in 2012 where he mistook my son's disregulation after his Grandfather's funeral for drug use, and one in 2017 where he had the police come and take my son to jail when he was disregulated.  My husband is the type who "won't tolerate any form of disrespect".  My son showed the slightest bit of anger when he was visiting and the result was that.  Granted, my husband wasn't sober at the time.  So I'm the one in-between.   Years of trying to fix this and I can't stop the rumination on his end.  Sorry this is going to be long and thanks to whoever is willing to take the time to read here are the texts copied and pasted exactly as he just sent them:

"If I broke something of M's you could be sure Id pay for the damages. If someone broke something of M's and then threatened him instead of offering to pay for the damages how would M react? Well he better not expect me to act any f****** better than he would. End of story. Pay for your damages. I was happy with the agreement to act like you didn't exist 10 years ago before you created the f****** damages. Pay for your f****** damages. I'm not allowed to text you but what's going to f****** happen if you don't pay for the f****** damages
doesn't matter it's all over I'm never going to see you again and if you ever do see you again you're not going to have a son or a husband

M wants to come he's running out of the f****** house yelling that he's going to kill me? Noo all f****** loyal are you f****** piece of s*** you brought this on yourself the only solution is your elimination you f****** piece of f****** s***. nothing is coming at you that isn't what you already did the other people you f****** stupid f****** piece of s*** you stupid f***

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction you brought every single bear this on yourself you stupid f***

Sorry I don't know what to say. All that is simply the solution to an equation that I did not create. I guess I'm just pissed right now cuz I just had to borrow a bunch of money from my dad that I wouldn't have even have owed to anybody if it wasn't for the years of the depression that you guys like to pretend had nothing to do with you never mind that I owe all this money now afterwards I had to go through those years of depression I should be suing his f****** ass off which includes you if I sue him I'm suing you too you should be leaving him no one should be treating anyone the way that he's treated any f****** one.
So the closest thing I can do to the right thing is never see you again. if he wants to do the right thing he can pay legitimately for his damages

Or look over your shoulder every day for the rest of his f****** life I'm going to sign up now cuz otherwise I'm going to spend the next ten hours threatening a piece of s***

I'm sorry I don't want to fight. I can't fix this. I just have to distance myself as far as I possibly can from it. I just wish there was some way to fix it and I don't see any other way to fix it any more of them to act the way I was treated and that doesn't work either it's just weird it's not a hormone line goes where my whole body goes on PTSD hits just stupid. I want to fight I just wish there was a way to fix this it's all in the hands of someone who won't fix it. Apparently all he understands is frickin crazines. There's no regaining the lost years."

I'm telling you because I can't tell anyone else.   If my husband saw this he would tell me to block him forever.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[PeaceMom]

Resilient,
This is tough stuff to deal with and I’m so sorry about your assuming the role of middleman. What comes to mind immediately is how simply validating the underlying feelings can help deescalate a bad situation.
There are many valid points in your quotes and if all would consider family T, everyone could work toward sharing and being heard in a safe place.

One of DD’s Therapists gave her a talking stick as a symbol to help control our toxic discussions that were full of confusion, misunderstanding, blame, resentment and disrespect. It made us more mindful of the speaker having a turn and we would pass the stick to the next person when time was up.

Hopefully others will brainstorm with you.

[twocrazycats]

I'm so sorry you're stuck in the middle having to deal with this.

My daughter would not, at all, do well with anyone who did "not tolerate any disrespect." I could see her ending up just as angry. The only way I can deal with her is to validate, validate, validate, and try to keep firm boundaries, but do it softly, if that makes any sense. Trying to force respect from someone with bpd, especially when they're dysregulated, is like trying to force respect from an alcoholic who is drunk. Somewhere I saw the question, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be effective?" Maybe your husband is right, but his way of going about it just doesn't seem to be working. Does he (your husband) know about bpd? Is he willing to learn? If not, maybe it's best if he stays away from your son? Just putting that out there to think about, since you know them best.

I hope things settle down between them.

2CC

[Resiliant]

Thanks PeaceMom and 2CC, I really appreciate your responses.

(BTW - that last paragraph about not fighting and fixing it were still his words.  I should have put it all in a different color because I realize it is confusing).

I do 100% agree with both of your comments about validate, validate, validate.  I didn't learn about validation until about a year ago, long after so much damage was done but it has still helped tremendously.   It doesn't stop the rumination though.   I have validated all of these feelings of his over and over and over, and each time at the end of those conversations it feels good, and we both say I love you and it feels like we got somewhere.  Then down the road it erupts again.   I feel like my son will never get over this unless he gets an apology from my husband and I can't make that happen.

It's sad because we used to have such a bond and I never imagined he would ever speak to me that way.  It seems that he has lost all faith in me - and certainly all respect when you read those texts.   Yet he can be the opposite when not disregulated.

PeaceMom, I like the talking stick idea.  I think my son would be into that for sure.  Not my husband though.

There is no way that I will get my husband to family therapy.  Not a chance.  He is just slowly starting to learn about BPD but I can only give him tidbits at a time.  He doesn't like talking about it and I have to be careful that I can back up what I say so that he doesn't think I am making excuses for my son.  There is an old-fashioned mindset there that never quite believed in mental disorders.  This is another reason why I am trying to educate myself here as much as I can.   I am working on it, really I am but teaching him is like trying to change someone's religion.  I can say that he is slowly starting to get it, but we have a long way to go.

2CC, you are right and I have chosen to keep them apart as much as possible.  They have not seen each other since that second incident and it happened back in spring of 2017.    My husband has agreed to go somewhere else if I have my son visit.  It infuriates my son that he can't just stop in whenever he wants and that I make arrangements for him to come visit.   It makes him feel like he's not part of the family (adds to the abandonment issues)  I do set those limits but it is still hard because I truly want him to feel like part of the family.   That is what bothers my son the most.  He feels like I have sided with my husband.

And here we have the Karpman Drama Triangle...Aha! the light just went off!  I think I'll find something to read about that again right now.

Thanks again 

[PeaceMom]

Res,
If you type on Lollypop’s posts over the years you will see how she explains how she became an example for her H who was not onboard with all this BPT carer stuff we deal with. She really just worked on making the relationship w/DS her priority.

Also, I totally understand your H’s way of thinking and not “tolerating disrespect”. We are in the conservative Bible Belt and that is absolutely the way we were taught to parent. Strict, swift consequences.  Validating the underlying feeling was not shown to us by our parents, thus, we didn’t know how to REALLY do that on a deep relational, pure connecting level with our 4 kids.

I’ve read about treating resistant spouses just the same as our BPD adult kids. Lots of validation. I also use this “When I hear you say____OR see you do _____,what I make up about this is my head is ____, and it makes me feel_____. This is helping a bit with the constant misunderstanding and confusion that goes on in our BPD household.

[Resiliant]

Thanks again PeaceMom,

I will absolutely check out Lollipop's posts.   I am excited about the chance to read about someone else's similar experiences!

I too grew up in an orthodox Christian household, our parents actually segregated us and we went to a separate Christian school etc. so maybe that is why I have learned to accept my husband's black and white way of thinking.  Having said that our family was still a otherwise very loving and family oriented household, whereas he came from the opposite family situation.

It's interesting what you said about validating resistant spouses.  I have often thought about that and thought about using the SET method when discussing with my husband.  I have tried (weakly) but I need do it more often and to get better at it.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me out here.  It really gives me the motivation to stay on track and try harder.  Much appreciated!