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Author Topic: Please help bpd dtr trying to suck me back in through the child  (Read 615 times)
Blueskyday
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« on: January 04, 2020, 05:32:17 PM »

As some of you may know I am estranged but with a Grandchild who is 8

End of Oct whilst going for cancer investigations I was discarded. My Grandchild sees me as a co parent
 I stayed away from dtr Xmas and New Yr
 Had a separate Xmas on boxing day with the child.

I felt calm and started to rebuild. I felt joy at times after years of depression.


So long story short. My dtr has totally changed the routine of the child
 She has gone to work full time at the exact moment of the estrangement. Pre and post school clubs..No stable routine to include down time.

She started going on Tinder in the summer so seems to have 0 time with or for the child. Childs house smells like the city dump. Lights don't work etc. Got pregnant with her friends steady date then lost it a week later...She spent Christmas with this friend who has no idea..It just goes on and on.

 Dtr shouts at the child. Took her to adult parties and invited 2 strangers home for s*x in 1 night drunk in front of her. She is taking her to work weekends. Then to the pub to get drunk with her friends.

Child broke down tonight after arriving at 7.30 am and telling me how hard home is for over 12 hrs. She is disturbed as she saw a weird computer thing when at a sleepover and can't get that out of her head. Said her Mum just won't listen to her.

She was told at 7am her Mother is cutting all of her hair off as it is full of knots. Also its her fault for not brushing it. This is the kind of stuff disturbing and distressing the child

She asked to call her Mother not that  I cant comfort but to let her know she is not OK..So she will listen.

We tried to talk to her before as the child asked me to tell her Mum she was stressed and got shut down.

Dtr said kid was fine before we had the problem. I don't want to fix things as I dont want to be a Mother to her.


I can not go back. I do not want my dtr in my life at all. I do not want my dtr in my life at all.
She is twisting everything to suit her new narrative. I am hurting the child by not being close to her Mother.

I am so stressed. My whole body is stressed with that conversation.

I can not go back. She is of course drinking, out clubbing and started crying on the phone. I had the child crying in the sitting room, her crying on the phone. For the first time I said re read what you wrote, there is no going back. I said I can't do this. She then accused me of trying to give the child the phone when she was crying. I had said I will give you to the child..I meant to say goodnight.

 She had today already refused to meet to discuiss how to support the child until she had seen a Doctor. She is having a breakdown and may go back on meds..I DO NOT CARE!

I don't know what do do.
She said she would talk to the child tomorrow . The child has said Grandma you two splitting up is bad, is really upset me but its not the problem. Its made it all worse.

Can anyone advise? I am scared she will wangle things and turn the child against me or take her away from me.
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twocrazycats
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2020, 07:29:56 PM »

Oh Bluesky, I feel the tension in your post and just wish I could give you a hug!

You are in such a tough situation. You are strong in staying away from your daughter, but you want to be there for your granddaughter, who is an innocent victim in all this.

But first, you need to take care of yourself. You said you felt a sense of calm on Christmas and New Year's. I have felt that calm when my daughter is away at college. You deserve to feel calm, to have peace in your own house and in your own mind. So take whatever time you need to make sure you put yourself first and have that peace. You can only help the child if you come from a place of strength and calm.

Are there any conditions under which you would consider no longer being estranged from your daughter? If she stopped drinking? If she went back on medication? If she stopped bringing random men into her house? I'm not saying you should, I'm just asking the question.

Have you discussed with the child what she saw on the computer? I think it's very important for her to have someone she can talk to about that. When my son (non BPD) was 9, all of a sudden he started acting out in a sexual sort of way, grabbing my breast, things like that. I sat him down and asked him what had happened lately? Why he was acting out. He told me how, when he went to a sleepover at his best friend's house (very good family, I had no hesitation sending him there), an older cousin was there. The older cousin found some Playboy magazines, and some of the kids there started doing some experimenting. Apparently, this made my son feel very uncomfortable. We talked about it. I also took him for some counseling. And it never happened again. My son has grown into a happy, well adjusted young man. I'm just saying, children see things and experience things that they are not comfortable with. Having someone to talk about it with can make all the difference. It's very sad that your daughter won't listen to the child.

I guess all you can do is be there for the child, as much as you feel you can and want to. But you have to draw the line somewhere. I would be concerned that daughter would go on to have more children, and keep you sucked in for the rest of your life that way.

Wish I could be of more help.
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Elizabeth22
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2020, 10:01:49 PM »

Blueskyday,

I  am very sorry this is happening. Can you call Child Protective Services for your grandchild? Or the police? Surely some of these things are illegal.

We go thru somewhat similar issues here and my husband's therapist finally said a few weeks ago that all we can do is choose the pain we want -
the pain of being involved and all that comes with it; or
the pain of not being involved and all that comes with it.

E22 xxxx
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Juki

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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2020, 03:31:25 AM »

Hi Bluesky,

I'm really sorry to hear about this situation and can understand how difficult it must be.  The one thing which stood out to me was the treatment of your grand daughter and as Elizabeth22 said "Can you call child protection services?".  Your grand daughter is being emotionally & psychologically abused and neglected and this is really damaging trauma for a young child that will have long lasting effects.  Your daughter is clearly having some fairly significant problems and what concerns me is the impact this will have on both you and your grand daughter if things continue without some sort of intervention.  Please see if you can connect with support for yourself, such as seeing a social worker or counsellor, who can point you in the right direction in relation to protecting your grand daughter and to also offer you some moral support.  It sounds like such a heartbreaking and stressful situation. 

Take care
Juki x
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2020, 05:56:14 AM »

Ohh lovely ladies,
My dtr is beyond all reason.
I felt the toxicity during the call.
I can not and will not allow that into my life again. I want no part of her.
The way she is attempting to change reality to suit her narritive scares me.
The child is increasingly disturbed by her abuse and she is attempting to lay this at my feet.

I think she's on coke. She's definitely an alcoholic.

She is doing weird stuff like dragging the kid out of bed drunk to apologise after sending her to bed as punishment for minor things like not finishing dinner. Dinner was french fries..fgs!


Cps do not care. She is a professional victim, very good at acting. She would be able to cover her tracks. The major issue is she is so far gone she believes her views are right. Everyone is out to get her. She is doing all she can.She is misunderstood and everyone is there to prop her up.

I sent her an email outlining the things the child said. I redrew my boundaries. She is attempting to pull me back in for the sake of the child. I believe that she is fully prepared to sacrifice the child's emotional health to get me back. I did everything for them for 8 solid yrs. She does not want to be responsible for her own life or the child. I see how much I did now.


I said there is no going back. I said that the conversation on the phone shows we can't sit down together. I have also explained to the child she needs to ensure that she tells Mum what she tells me else Mum may think I have exaggerated and not listen to her the way she tells me she needs her to She got it!

Child woke up stressed. She is worried about going home and talking to her.

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Blueskyday
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2020, 11:37:41 AM »

I am so totally exhausted. This has been a terrible weekend after a lovely start to the New year. I was happier

Child perked up.
I made an amazing roast chicken and kid and pooch had it.
 I took her home at 4.30
Dtr has thrown bags of dog poo out of the front door.
The stench hits you as you apporach. ( Dog does not soil my home)
I believe she has cleaned inside over Christmas.

Kid got nervous of talking to her Mum and I told her her Mum said and believes us splitting is the only issue and to prepare. She then backtracked agreeing this. I explained if she doesn't feel able to say what she has said to me Mum may think I am creating a problem.
I totally get why she's backtracking. She is 8. It's all too much. Her Mother will not hear the truth. Still I had to say this else it will back up my dtr's delusions.

This is email I sent last night, no response.

****** is in bed now and is asleep. I will drop them tomorrow after 3.30.

You should know that the first thing she said to me today was that she was upset all her hair is being cut off because of knots.

She has been tense all day. She has talked a lot about stress today. She said she saw something disturbing on a computer game at ****'* house that terrified her. She mentioned this before but not in such detail.

She can't sleep as it creeps into her mind when she is in bed. This is more scary than wolves ( she's terrified of wolves). This she said is why she struggles to go to bed and to sleep. This is why she gets up crying. The broken light making the stairs dark scares her.
She is worried the "stress" might not get better.

She wants us to be together and said its bad but she said us splitting up is not the only problem. Its just made it all worse. She is adamant she was not OK before the split. She has asked when and if we will make up. I said we are not able to understand each other or get on and it built up. I didn't give any further detail although she asked why

No doubt her family breaking up has made any problems worse. No one wins here. Maybe we need to work harder to make her feel safe and secure.

I can only listen to her when she is breaking down and tell you when she asks me to tell you.
She said she felt she was putting too much on me by crying. She's worried it will be too much for me . I am concerned that if we don't listen and reassure her she will stop trying.

She said she feels that she struggles since you went back to work full time which coincides with when we split. She now has breakfast club and after school club. She is also being taken to work at the weekend. She said she would like the chart as it was before. She said she had asked for a new chart but it was too difficult for you to do now. ( The chart as a form of grounding, dinner time, play time. Mum refuses play and quality time now there is no chart. There is no set dinner time.)

 She is struggling. She seems to be crying out for help.
Any changes in routine can badly affect a child. Massive change in her day and what is almost like a divorce for her was probably too much.

We need to ensure that all contact arrangements are made through us for her sake. It would be easier on her. Being able to come home at short notice or come to me at short notice might also help her. I understand you book work and that is hard to change but maybe your friends would understand if you cancel your night out once in a while. She needs a lot of love and a lot of support and attention at the moment.

The phone call this evening just showed we will continue to be unable to communicate. There is no going back. I realise now that its not going to be possible to sit together and try to work out something together to support her. I think it's best we stick to email.

If you feel that in saying any or all of this I am over involving myself then let me know. Please let me know what and how you want me to change.
I have been in a type of co parenting position and she seems to view me as another parent.

I am trying and mostly do make sure she has a happy time here. She feels safe and secure here. She is welcomed and loved. She had an amazing time Boxing day onwards. She was happy. She left happy. I am doing the best I can. She was a different kid today.


 


 

 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 11:43:13 AM by Blueskyday » Logged
Blueskyday
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2020, 11:52:14 AM »

Her saying she is going to the Dr for meds was her reacting to me not cleaning up her mess. She needs meds, she is unwell. Problem is she is malicious and deliberate with it. we can never reconcile whilst she is so sick and in such denial. I am in her mind still the problem even after 3 months of NC .

She refuses to allow the child to return home if she wants to go home at any time and she planned to go clubbing. if the child insists she tells her she is holding her hostage and screams a her. She is mean. I am amazed at the bravery of this childwho does try to speak up. If she totally backtracks then it's not her fault poor kid.

If my dtr attempts to remove me from the child then I will go to war. I am now walking a tightrope as she is so mean she would do this if she can't manipulate me back.

last night she said we need to sort this out.
 She meant you need to go back to being my sounding board councillor, transport, sitter etc etc etc.
She does not need to change I am the problem and don't want to be a Mother to her.

Not going to happen
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 11:57:23 AM by Blueskyday » Logged
twocrazycats
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2020, 01:09:45 PM »

I, too, am amazed at the bravery of your granddaughter. I can only imagine the toll it is taking on her. I am also amazed at your strength in dealing with this.

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Juki

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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2020, 02:47:23 PM »

I am still very concerned about your grand daughter in all of this.  Given that your daughter is a "professional victim, very good at acting" and CPS don't care, I am wondering whether your grand daughter can speak to a counsellor or student welfare officer at her school if CPS do not care? Also have you discussed this with your doctor as it is a legal obligation for them to report all cases of suspected child abuse. 

Given that your daughter is not thinking clearly, is in denial, has created her own reality, and is drug and alcohol affected, I feel that you are wasting your time communicating logically with her and appealing for understanding as she does not currently have the capacity to reason or see things clearly.  Please try to only communicate about necessary facts and don't share confidences that your grand daughter has disclosed to you as this may get her into trouble with her mother. It's really important for your grand daughter to feel that she has a trusted safe space where she can disclose anything, that it is received non-judgementally, and that it stays only with you.  Also keep records of all disclosures and incidents in a book noting the date and time - this may be required further down the track depending on how things pan out.

You need to tread very carefully and keep strong and healthy boundaries.  I'm not sure if you've heard of D-E-A-R-M-A-N which is an interpersonal effectiveness skill taught in DBT.  There's plenty of info on the web and some great YouTube videos about it and it may be a useful tool to help you in your communications with your daughter.  I've used this skill with great success many times, so much so that my psychologist gave me a certificate stating that I had successfully mastered it  Being cool (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post).

Juki x
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2020, 03:54:41 PM »

I too am very worried. I can only try to keep on keeping on. I am just relieved she talks to me.

I have been sworn to secrecy on many issues and conversations. This is half the problem. My dtr is totally unaware of how much I know.

I would never ever betray the child's confidence. She knows this.

Yesterday my dtr said to me on text. She couldn't fix all ( her daughters ) problems. She said I am not taking her to a Doctor. No one had mentioned Doctor. Then she said I am going to the Doctor because I had a breaking down. I may need to go back on meds. It's all threats, all manipulation. I am anti meds ( as far as she thinks) She needs meds!

She is partying every weekend, working full time and then weekends too. This is not like any breakdown I have ever seen

Here in the UK there is a wait time of about a year to see a councillor. My Dtr is not interested anyway. I have nowhere to turn
 All I can do is try to be there when I can. We have Snapchat and a codeword if she needs me in an emergency.

Although its not enough its all I have. I have to accept I have no legal rights here.

One wrong move and she will stop the child from all contact with me
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PeaceMom
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2020, 04:36:58 PM »

Blue sky,
It must be so difficult to be in this situation. It appears you feel like you have neither legal rights to your GD nor legal responsibilities to report neglect and abuse of your GD.

Surely England has some type of protective laws where an anonymous report can be made on a child’s behalf. Her school counselor seems like the obvious choice.  I’m in the U.S. and I would report to the school, then an investigation would commence. I’m learning that we have a victim mindset when we feel we have no choices, but many times we overlook realistic, viable options.

How would you lovingly advise a dear friend in your same situation in England who was pleading with you for answers? You are wise and intuitive!
Peacemom
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wendydarling
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2020, 04:51:59 PM »

Hi Bluesky

You are in a tough situation and when we are we all need help, thank goodness for our forum here where we can speak out safely. You are describing abuse, your grand daughter needs professional support who understand what she's going through as you say she's crying out for help and understanding from her Mum and she's not getting it. You can help your GD by what is in your control. I can imagine it feels like you are spinning plates from what you describe. The thing is Blue we have to be honest with ourselves we need help, like you have been with your cancer scare, you faced your fear and the lady you saw was validating and understanding.

As a first step can you talk with your GP? Do you know them well? I'm in the UK.

We are walking with you Blue, every step of the way.

WDx

Here is
1.17 | Communicate - D.E.A.R.M.A.N Juki refers too.
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2020, 07:27:03 PM »

You guys are amazing.

I do feel the weight of responsibility to intervene and make all sorts of calls.

I am watching like a hawk. One thing I am seeing in myself is that I am calm and careful. Trust me, I will strike if my gut tells me to. Yes I am spinning plates. The child is my main focus but my options are so limited and rife with risk.

As things stand if I make a call the following will happen

A GP will call CPS. They will contact her ( no kidding) and arrange a visit. She will pull her shizzle together and make it all look fine. The school currently has kid's on the protection register who live with heroin addicts. They are violent , disturbed kids who have not been removed from their physically abusive parents. There is no help. Never the less I would call them as a threat if needed. If she removed contact. As things are me and the child  have a back up plan and I have a key to the house .

My dtr sent an email this evening.
She has been threatened with eviction.
She is £5,000 behind with her rent.
She is already declared bankrupt which wiped the last arrears so she hasn't paid rent for a year

She said all sorts of things. She wants her Mum back and so on and so forth.
She is suicidal and may end up homeless. She was in A&E emergency room for panic. She has high blood preasure.

She knows she is a bad Mother. She knows she has mental health issues. I noted no examples of this given. It was still all about her needs.

She went into detail about how she snapped when I was ill whilst justifying snapping.

Basically it screamed rescue me.

I almost got sucked but not quite. I had a moment.


I responded and explained that I am sorry she may become homeless. All the weekend working now makes sense but I thought she didn't want the child. I said I was considering offering to take legal guardianship if she really didnt want her. I said I am concerned about drinking and possible coke use. I gave an example of handing the kid to her drunk. I said I am afraid the child is not safe

 I explained she has to chose if she gets help for her mental illness. She is 30 and she has to choose how she proceeds.

I explained I rescued her and that was not her fault. I should have stopped a long time ago.

No ambiguity there at all. She knows I will not be swooping in to fix this .

I said if she choses to seek help, therapy then maybe things could move forward

 
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2020, 01:22:54 AM »

Found myself awake until past 2am.
I woke late for work nauseated.
My Lupus is flaring with the stress of this weekend. I am trying not to be physically sick.

I have had a virus for 6 weeks and a chest infection and was still able to work.

This just demonstrates the toll all of this  has had on my body. I can't go to work today. I feel so physically weak I am trembling. I did none of the weekend things I needed to do. Saturday saw 17 hrs of stress with a child breaking down. It's just all too much.
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2020, 12:58:11 PM »

Oh Bluesky, I'm so sorry you are stressed out, though pleased you've taken the day off. I hope talking here provides you some relief. I know when my DD was in crisis I had to double up on self care and be really strict with myself as it takes effort  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) though when I did self care it was blissful.

Your DD has provided more information to you and that is helpful as you work your way through this. Significant is she's £5k in rent arrears. You say this is not the first time (previously written off). Am I right she went to court, she was not made homeless and as she has her DD to provide for. So she likely back in court, for the second time and her ongoing situation is 'raised'.

Blue, has the CPS interviewed your DD before? You are right they don't always remove the child. My understanding is they start with an agreement protection plan and that'd likely include counselling for your GD where she will gain an understanding of her Mum and her struggles and learn important skills. It's imperative your GD learns that there is help out there now because there is, and throughout her life when she needs it.

Look at the adult children here with a BPD parent, read their posts on the PSI board. Some have been in similar situations where your GD is now.

I also suggest you read Longterm posts (UK), his wait for counselling was I believe 12 weeks and he's found it immeasurably helpful and insightful.  You could gain that support, you need support too.

You can do this Blue  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Let's all keep talking this through together.

You offered guardianship, do you think your DD may agree - down the line?

WDx
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2020, 02:08:34 PM »

Wendy she will not allow me contact with the child at all if I make any call to any agency. She will know it's me.
She was never interviewed as I always picked up the pieces .



The City we are in is in crisis. Children who are beaten and watch their parents shoot up are being failed. All my dtr has to say is she's working full time. Kid is in school. It would all just go away and the kid would be lost to me.

I dealt with her debtors and eventually about a yr ago she made herself bankrupt. The slate was wiped clean . She said the arrears were not her fault. Her assistance was miscalculated. Still, she is not accepting responsibility.

I held the little one yesterday and said I know you are crying out for help and I want you to know I am listening. I hear you.
I must ensure that she can be with me or she won't cope.

I do feel that the suicide threats and being homeless is more drama. I have dealt with this as most of us have for over 15 yrs.

She is working to pay the arrears so she won't be homeless but that isn't how she worded it. I saw every hook in the email. She has cranked up the pressure as she wants me back now.

Now I am out of her life she cant blame me for her issues..she is trying tho.

She did say I know I went beserk in October BUT!. Not good enough.

I wish she would hand the kid over but nothing is predictable at this point.
If she attempts suicide I will push for custody. In all the years of threats and describing to me her self harm she has not attempted to hurt herself. I have never seen evidence of self harm.

My brother killed himself and she knows it's a trigger to me

She has not responded to my email so I guess my words have fed the splitting.

It was high time I laid my cards on the table
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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2020, 01:56:53 AM »

Hi Blueskies,
I like the words/advice of Wendy, but I also feel your words to. NEA BPD, have started in the UK. I found their online 12 week teleconference course to be excellent (I did the USA one)

My experience of the social care system, is that they unfortunately lack the education in BPD. Some are prepared to learn from us - the carers. But generally there needs to be better professional education, (without the carers having the responsibility of bringing those willing to learn, up to speed!) and that's not to mention the politics involved in raising the profile in this area.
Blessing you on your journey forward. If you do the NEA BPD course let me know how you get on. X
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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2020, 01:01:43 PM »

Thanks for all your advice.

I just spoke to my Grandchild who really wasn't keen to talk to me. I have no idea what has been said to her. I hope she doesn't think I betrayed her confidence.

I had feared this scenario but I will wait to see if its a coincidence. She may be tired or it may feel more awkward talking to me on the phone with her Mother there after this awful weekend.

My dtr said in her email it was hard for her to hear me talking to the child. She felt left out. Maybe she told her this.

She said she was going to bed soon and didn't say she loved me back. It felt awkward but we might both just be tired.

Its hard not to let my imagination run with this.

I didn't go to work again today . I've had a bad feeling all day . I am at a loss but I need to keep it together. I should have called work but I didn't. I am all over the place.

I do know that my dtr would rather turn the child against me if I don't come back to where she feels I should be.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 01:08:06 PM by Blueskyday » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2020, 04:17:55 AM »

I just received an email in response to the one i sent the other day.

She said she is on the verge of being sectioned. She suspects she will be given a priority emergency apt with the doctor next week as she can't go this week. She almost got signed off but her friend talked her into going to work. They will be homeless if she doesn't

I make her feel suicidal.
I have confirmed everything bad she thinks about herself. I have no maternal feelings towards her.

She has no one and nowhere to turn.
Her friends are good.
She is telling people how suicidal she is as thats what google said.
She planned last month to kill herself this month. She does not know why I would want to take her child away.


After saying she has no one and nowhere to turn she said.

One friend is so concerned that they offered to move in with her to help her. One friend has offered to be an "anytime" call me person.
Of course I am the monster. They are good and I am bad. I should not have responded to her email before this one.
It fed her splitting. She hears what suits her narritive.

The child has never been in any bad situations. She has never had a boyfriend. The child has never been in danger.
The child is 8. She knows the child. All of the child's issues stem from this situation. ( Meaning you are to blame for not coming back. You are bad and hurting your Grandchild and everyone knows this!)

She needs to limit emails to once a week as I am making her want to kill herself.

 I am allowed to see the child but it must be set in stone and put on the chart on a Monday. The child is not allowed to extend her stay or return at short notice as that's not reasonable.

I cant see the child Friday as she will beg to stay but I can see the child Saturday?

Her email was so full of verbal violence and not so subtle threats.

I realise my mistake was to ever enter into any dialogue. I gave her the ammo to change the narrative.

One good thing has come from all of the trauma from last weekend. The chart is back and she is taking the child out Sunday for a day out. She said the child has calmed.

She suggests making a plan on a Monday. I think its better maybe to have a regular visitation schedule and only speak if there needs to be a change.

Maybe a collection and a sleepover on a Saturday would be a better idea.I think the more separate things are kept the better.

I would welcome any suggestions as clearly I messed this up
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2020, 07:33:17 AM »

Sorry for the monologue. Its mainly for me to get it out.
Hopefully anyone considering responding will learn from my mistakes.


 I offered her the set sleepover.
I am aware how unfeeling I sound.
I have been here too many times before.
Its always the same violent language.
Its the same threats of suicide.
Many, many times I recanted and swooped in to save her and lost us both.

My brother killed himself when I was 21. I have never gotten over it. I spent the day before my 21st at an inquest and the day after at a funeral. This is not a joke to me. It has triggered me so badly again I have lost 3 days of work. I can not let her back into my life without treatment.

I am trying to find the truth between the lines

She has said she is booked up to work every Saturday until February. So whilst planning her demise she was booking work.
 She is waiting 2 weeks to see a Dr for an emergency appointment.
She will not be homeless because she is paying the arrears. She is still going drinking and buying clothes.
She was angry at the thought that at 54 I had a boyfriend. She has never had a boyfriend or a " friend" that wasn't with someone else.

I have felt suicidal in the past, a lot of it to escape her behaviour. I did not behave in this way.

I do not deny she is in pain. I know she tried to reach out to me in the email before the last one. The nature of this illness means any moment of clarity is fleeting. She would be right back to where she was in no time. Within a day she took back any apology with the next email and was accusatory again.

My email was without emotions and to the point. It was a gamble that backfired. I made a mistake in responding. It has set my recovery back.
I am sure it hurt her.
I don't want to hurt her.
I think some of it went in.
I know, despite her protests she knows I am right.
She has no idea the child has told me everything.
I just want to be left alone.

For the child short term it is easier to make up. I can't do short term fixes any more. I lost 20yrs to that.

I can only hope that a guarantee of a weekly club night will prevent her from sabotaging my relationship with the child.
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twocrazycats
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2020, 11:19:10 PM »

Bluesky, I feel your pain in your posts. I'm sorry this is so difficult. I do see hope that something positive can come of it all if she follows through with the weekly visits. I, personally, would prefer that visit times be the same every week. But then I've never been great at going with the flow of things.

I do understand why you're hesitant to make a call to an agency. I mentioned in a different post that I called CPS on my SIL many years ago when I saw her kick my young niece. In spite of all promises of anonymity, my SIL immediately found out it was me who called. And as expected, I was not allowed to see my niece for about 6 months. My situation was different, and I believe it was worth it. But my niece had other relatives supporting her, and my SIL's only fault, really, was that she was too young and unprepared to be a mother. She never showed any signs of BPD. In your situation, I can see how you consider it too much of a risk to the child. She would be helpless if your daughter didn't allow you to see her. It's a very, very tough situation. Ideally, someone should get help for this child. But what good would it do if she lost the one person who gives her hope and something to hang onto? So I get that.

With my daughter, I've had to practice accepting that she cannot feel empathy toward me. Everything will always be my fault. And she will always be the victim. I'm the persecutor, she's the victim. Until she starts feeling really depressed. Then, I become the rescuer. She reaches out to me. She is still the victim. And here is where I have to draw the line. I will give her a pep talk, tell her she can do it, whatever it is. But I won't give her money.

At least with my daughter, I have to accept that, for now at least, feelings are a one-way street. So I try to show love, concern, empathy. And I constantly have to remind myself not to expect it in return. Do you think you might still be expecting your daughter to respond with some degree of empathy?

Anyway, how are you feeling now? I hope you are feeling better. We are all here for you.
2CC
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2020, 12:52:11 AM »

Ohh 2 cats,   Virtual hug (click to insert in post) I am quite sure I don't expect empathy for me but I do think I expected it for her kid. I won't make that mistake again. My email response to her must have screamed I dont want you in my life. I don't want her in my life

I applaud your approach with your daughter. I am glad she can still be  with you. Its still hard on you I know

The issue with my dtr is it is so constant and the crisis are so serious. She persues until you are dragged down to where she is.  She can not tolerate joy. She sucks the joy and hope out of the room, the people around her. Then there is the anger. She feels compelled to extinguish all that makes her uncomfortable. Its too much to manage.
I really think she may be getting worse. Her thinking is so engrained. She is an amazing victim..so sweet and helpless. Only me and the kid and the poor dog know the truth.

I feel better. The trauma of about 17hrs of the child spiralling knocked me badly. She arrived at 7.30 and didn't  sleep till 12 on Sat. Plus from my dtr all the suicide talk was just too much. I was weak due to that awful virus and physically exhausted.

I went to the homeless shelter last night. It is in a church and its so welcoming. It has secure beds and is warm and cozy yet its huge. The guests are all screened and very sweet.

I am going to work today. I think her spiral has passed ( daughter) as the emails formalizing access were almost causal and normal.

I think coming here .I know coming here has saved me.Being able to post just getting it out is so theraputic.

 I have through this been able to book students back to back until June. I will be able to make additional money and not be so alone.
This never happens.

I contacted my boss's boss and fessed up to messing up and not calling in. I apologised and got myself off the hook.
Today is a new day
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 12:59:08 AM by Blueskyday » Logged
Etsy

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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2020, 10:40:53 AM »

Hi Bluesky,
Sound so hard going for you. On the subject of blame I found Brene Browns words helpful and try my best to think of this when I find myself in the firing line - " Blame is a discharge of discomfort and pain"  here is the link https://youtu.be/RZWf2_2L2v8
My Thoughts are with you xx
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2020, 04:02:12 AM »

Thanks Etsy, I had a look at it.
It seems reasonable.
I blame too in response to her attacks.
She blames, she rages to get rid of her pain. Problem is her pain overshadows and poisons everything around her.
Her friends are currently collectively all good and I am the enemy. I am all bad.

Well she has managed to shut the kid down. I felt the shift on the phone and I was right. When I picked her up she couldn't look at me so she has said something which is not in alignment with herself. The only thing I asked was was she OK now and did she have a talk.

She pursed her lips looked down and said we didn't have a talk. The child never lies to me but this wasn't true.
 The only other thing I said was reassure her that although I spoke to her Mum I didn't share anything she asked me not to.

Her Mother said with a wry smirk at the car.."She said she would like to come home tonight". I wonder what she said to that child. She had already said to the child she wanted to spend New yr all together but I refused. I guess its along the lines of Grandma doesn't want us to be a family.This would make any kid question who to trust.

I don't think the kid thinks I have betrayed her trust but I think she feels she has done a 180 and thrown me under the bus. Of course nothing can change how I feel about her but my concern is how she feels about herself.

We went and collected the dog as I had to pick the child up from her work. The dog is being left alone all day 7 days a week. The Christmas tree was still up. The dog smells like the house and is so matted she has lumps of hair almost pulling her skin. The dog is matted, the kid is matted. The dog had defacated on the carpet. That dog would die before she soiled my home.  

My dtr knows what needs to be done as she cleaned the house when she returned from work. However hard these 2 weeks have been at least I have reaffirmed that I am not coming back and that I am watching her.

The child was off for a few hrs and we went gelling at all. She said a couple of mean things to me. I just said thats a little harsh . This is not who she is but I get it!

We played some games but she was different and not thawing. I think she is so like me. She is also stoic. She holds things in. Its OK and as long as we aren't kept separated I can deal.

After some time and patience she was back under my arm snuggling. She feels that I adore her so I just have to keep being who and how I usually am. It took 7 hrs until she looked at me the same as she always did. It didn't happen with words. It seems that at least for now she has stuffed her feelings right back down where her Mother wants them

 She asked to sleep over after all. I had to explain that it was a bit late in the day. Her Mum has made her choose and I can't allow her Mother to feel she chooses me .

After telling me communicating with me was making her want to kill herself she blew my phone up all day.
She sent photos of her living room cleaned asking me to tell the child the tree is down. Telling me the dog is booked for a groom.

I am fully aware she is telling me. She knows how to behave and not neglect them because I taught her.

I am so over this. The drama of the last 2 weeks was like being hit by a bus. I want joy in my life. I deserve to have fun with my Grandchild.

What all if this has done is confirm to me that I do not want my daughter in my life. She is too sick. She is too vindictive. She is willing to hurt and use her child to manipulate me.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 04:21:11 AM by Blueskyday » Logged
twocrazycats
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2020, 12:33:00 PM »

That is so sad how the child is being used by your daughter. I guess all you can do is keep repeating that you are there for her, no matter what.

You mentioned before how before now you'd expected your daughter to at least have empathy for her child. I've recently realized that most likely my own mother had BPD, and I can say that, in all the years I lived with her and knew her, I can't recall a single instance of her showing empathy for either of her two children. Children are not exempt as targets of lack of empathy. And that's the saddest.

I am continually amazed by your strength in this difficult situation, and I wish you continued strength.
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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2020, 01:10:17 PM »

Thanks 2 cats so much. It just gets crazier. She called me this evening which I wasnt expecting. She sounded OK and quite happy.

My dtr was chipping in in the background * sounds very happy considering shes so suicidal* and sending photos of the child's hair cut. Main thing is the little one sounded like she had a good day. She went to the cinema and to town.

So maybe the new tactic is to outdo me. The saddest bit is I would be happy if she could.

I love that child. Her happiness is the only thing that matters to me.

I picked the students up this evening. Its very odd to have the house full again and to have noise. They are noisy. I will get used to it. I'm not keen on 2 but its only for 3 weeks. After this its only 1.

3 weeks of patience is in front of me. They brought so much luggage my car couldn't get up the hill OMG
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Blueskyday
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2020, 04:53:10 PM »

It seems the crisis is passed.
Lesson learned..do not respond at all to my daughters emotional emails.
Do not tell her things she is not able to hear.

I have not spent any time with her for 3 whole Months. I don't miss her very much or really at all which tells me everything I felt, all the emptyness between us was real. She was simply in my vacinity, never with me for a long time.

The one email exchange was so toxic it took me 3 weeks to recover.

The Grandbaby was challenging this weekend from the get go saying she was bored within minutes of arriving here.

 She was attempting to force me to play a game by saying I had interrupted her plans for that evening by collecting her. I think my dtr has said an awful lot of stuff to her because she's been "off" with me which has never happened before. Her Mother then told her she would have had a bath and bed had she been home. I could hear the pleasure in her voice knowing the child was being a bit challenging with me...Who is this woman I ask myself?

It may not be too much of a reach to say the child blames me. My dtr is clearly saying it"s me who won't make up.

Sadly I can't collect her earlier or have her later than the Saturday overnight. She said she needed more notice to come. She has never said anything like that before. Needless to say she asked to stay longer..She loves me but is being groomed now that it's no longer OK.

The spontaneity is gone. I am concerned the relationship will change..It will happen slowly of course but I think my dtr is determined. I really don't like her but worse than this I fear her.

The child felt forced to choose and naturally she is displaying behaviours which show she chose her Mother.
I don't blame her, she's 8. She is confused.

My dtr is on a diet. She is out partying when I have the child to the point she asked me to drop the kid and the dog into the house and she would in the bed ..Erm..No!

I was supposed to open the door and leave the kid and the dog with her upstairs .

 She went to work following her night out and planned to recover whilst the child entertained herself alone until bedtime..ayye ayye ayye.

So she is no longer suicidal I guess. For someone on the verge of being homeless she's spending a lot of money

I have no doubt she's paying off her rent arrears quite easily as she gets triple pay on a Sunday. It was all just drama.

On another note I found myself thinking of Faith today. I am so greatful to everyone but Faith especially held my hand through my darkest times last year. If you are reading and not posting Faith I am thinking of you and praying for your recovery..
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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2020, 06:25:13 PM »

Staff only This thread has reached the posting limit and is now locked. Please feel free to continue the discussion in a new thread. Thank you, and have a great day!
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