Help me to stop micromanaging

[Bandiro]

My BPD 18 yo DD is a freshman in college. Halfway through last semester she stopped going to class and almost failed out. I set some minimum requirements for GPA and attendance for this semester, or I no longer pay for college. I know her login for her college account, so I have been periodically checking on her progress. She is already missing classes and not getting her work done on time. She hates when I ask her about school and micromanage. Last semester I was reminding her to hand in work and study for tests at the beginning of the semester. She got upset about that, so I told her to change her password so I couldn’t look. She did, and that’s when she stopped going to class and her grades plummeted. 
I’m having a really hard time not telling her I know she is already falling behind and encouraging her to get her stuff together and go to class. If I do that, she would just get upset about me interfering in her life. I know I should just let her deal with the consequences if she doesn’t meet the minimum GPA we agreed on. But it’s so hard - I feel like I’m giving up on her future. She went into college intending to pursue a career that requires very competitive grad school. If she has another semester of low GPA, there’s no way she would ever get into grad school, even if she excelled in college from here on out. She has already given up on that goal, and sees college as a big party and a way to get away from me. But I don’t want to give up on her yet. I still think she can get better and achieve her goal. She was a straight A student in high school so I know she’s capable.
I’m just going to have to come to terms with the fact that I can’t force her to go to class, study, etc., and I will have to enforce the consequences if she doesn’t get the GPA we agreed on. Of course, if that happens she will be home with me, and we will both be miserable.
This is going to be a tough couple months, but I know I need to just step back and let her make her choices. Any advice on how to handle this? She is in therapy for the past couple months but I haven’t seen any progress yet.  I don’t even know if she is telling the therapist about how she has pretty much given up on school.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[formflier]

I'm so glad you found us and are reaching out for help.  "Letting go" is a tough thing all parents have to do, especially when it appears they are taking a path we wouldn't approve or we hadn't agreed to.

Can I "flip this" on you?

She wants to be independent...isn't that a good thing?

Would you rather her be dependent, yet get high grades or would you rather her be independent, yet choose a different path.

I like that you set a limit on paying for college.  Please..please hold to that. 

What does she have to say about why she is missing classes.

Best,

FF

[Bandiro]

Thanks for your reply. Letting go is very hard!
She doesn't have much to say about why she isn't going to class - she doesn't want to discuss anything about school with me. It started last semester with her sleeping through her classes - I thought it was because of the depression medication she had just started. But then I realized she was staying up all night, and sleeping all day. She has recently stopped her meds.
Her group of friends at college don't seem to be academically motivated (1 already failed out, another is on academic probation) so that's not helping either, as DD seems to take on the characteristics of the friends she is hanging with. I know they all party quite a bit, and smoke a lot of pot, so I'm sure that is part of it.
Her independence regarding school has more to do with not wanting to be held accountable, and less to do with wanting to be independent. If she doesn't stick with school, she will be home, working a part time job while being supported by her father and I. Of course, we will insist she get a full time job and hopefully start supporting herself, but if she can't handle school, not sure if she will be able to handle that.
I sent her a text last night reminding her of our agreement on grades and attendance. She didn't respond, which is typical. Now I'm just going to be optimistic that being at school with her friends and away from me is enough motivation for her to meet the requirements we agreed on.     

[formflier]

Why let her come home?

If she doesn't keep her school agreement, why would she keep her agreement on full time job and all that.  

Is there a reason you would not want her to experience the impact of her decisions on her life?  Perhaps she would make better ones in the future.

Best,

FF

[Bandiro]

Well, I guess I don't see failing out of college as grounds for immediately kicking an 18 year old out of the house and sending her to live on the streets. Many kids without BPD fail out of college too. I doubt kicking them out of the house is the first thing most of their parents think of doing. I would give her some time to come home, get a job, save some money, etc. before I went the "you're completely on your own -- good luck" route.

[formflier]

So your course of action may be a good one, it's important to examine several different ones.  It's also important to examine "the theory" behind each of those and ask yourself "Has this approach and/or this theory been working?"

If so...keep going..right?

If not, ask if there is really good evidence that doing more of what has not worked in the past...will work, with just another time or two.  (beware...this is often a "trap" to do things "one more time"...and then "one more" and next thing you know another year has gone by and nothing is better).

What if it wasn't you "kicking them out"?  What if it was you "respecting their choice"?

If a child makes a choice to no longer participate in the benefits and responsibilities of a household...they've made that choice.  A parent is simply observing what has happened (not kicking them out).

And...it's not like you are kicking them out into the streets, although if they choose to live in the streets...that can be hard to watch, especially if they want to blame you for their choices (a common BPD tactic)


Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

If she doesn't stick with school, she will be home, working a part time job while being supported by her father and I.

It does sound like she maybe wasn't ready for college and the freedoms that go with that, which is not uncommon for a lot of 18 year olds. Researchers say procrastination is more about emotion regulation than time management and that makes a lot of sense. I remember reading a list of things that teens should demonstrate before being ready for college and my son (also 18) displayed none  

And he's not BPD.

There are so many solutions when our kids don't meet the goals we have for them (and they claim to share). You have good instincts and probably know how this first attempt at college is going to play out. That's hard, and also good! I've been learning how to accept what's happening, even if I don't approve. It's tough.

With S18 (who has been struggling with medical issues), he has a history of depression/anxiety and I work with him and his T to collaborate on reasonable, collaborative goals and a plan for what he will do and what he wants to happen if things start to fall apart. Is that something that D18 would be open to working on with you and her T?

There are lots of stepwise ways to build up to something that may not look like what we envisioned (e.g. competitive grad school) but meets somewhere in the middle (e.g. what our kids can handle given mental health struggles). Moving slowly in the direction even if it's not quite as accelerated as we know they are capable of intellectually.

What is your relationship with D18 like? Does she have tender cycles where she is more or less trusting your guidance?

[Bandiro]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply! Unfortunately my relationship with my daughter is not the best. It breaks my heart because we were so close throughout her childhood. Right now, at best she is distant and just tries to avoid being around me, and at worst she is raging at me and blaming me for all her problems. She will say "love you too" when I tell her I love her, but during an episode she has no problem telling me how much she hates me. DD does not want to accept any guidance from me, and when her therapist suggested to her that I participate in one of their sessions, my daughter quickly refused. If I offer any suggestions on handling her college responsibilities, she just shuts down and refuses to listen.
You are right, I knew she wasn't emotionally ready or mature enough for college. I knew there would be lots of drama about leaving her boyfriend. I knew she wasn't at a place in her life where she had the determination to succeed. I asked her many times if she even wanted to go to college (she showed very little interest in the application and picking a college process). But all of her friends from high school were going off to college, so she opted to follow that path too. After her rough fall semester, I suggested she not go back for the spring semester, and instead spend some time concentrating on therapy and getting better. But she wanted to go back - she wants to be with her friends and away from home. I am going to stay optimistic for a better semester, but if college doesn't work out for her right now, I can accept that. I just hope she can accept that.

[formflier]

  DD does not want to accept any guidance from me

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Bandro

I would suggest pushing pause on looking to the future for a few weeks.  Instead spend some time focusing on what emotional life is like for pwBPD.

Compare that to how you have been approaching your pwBPD and understand the differences.

Are you at a place where you can accept that what you have been doing/how you have been approaching her "isn't working"? 

Please don't take this as a "final judgment", but I believe it's likely she takes your "suggestions" as a belief that you don't believe in her.  (or something along those lines)  Perhaps she is invalidated when she says she doesn't want suggestions and then gets them...or perhaps she feels "powerless"...so she kinda checks out.

Any of those things "ring true" to you?


Best,

FF

[Bandiro]

Those things absolutely ring true to me. I think she without a doubt feels invalidated and resentful when I get involved in her life in any way. I’m working on being more validating.

[formflier]

  I’m working on being more validating.

Please take a big breath, maybe get something to drink and get ready to think about the impact of what I'm going to say about the "power of validation" compared to the "power of invalidation".

I'm not knocking the effort at validation, yet please clearly hear me say that your efforts are most likely misplaced.

For the sake of this discussion, please consider that 1 invalidation equals 10 validations.

When a pwBPD is "invalidated" they are "cut to the core" and become emotionally raw. 

Validation is a "soothing balm" to the relationship.

Think about that.  If you have a limited amount of energy and effort, would you rather stop "cutting to the core" or would you rather that continue, yet try to apply some "soothing balm".

Hopefully you are a bit wide eyed now and saying "wow"!

Any ideas at how you can avoid invalidation in the future?  Can you revisit some past conversations and suggest ways to yourself to avoid invalidation?

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Bandiro]

That’s a tough one. There is no doubt I invalidated DD’s extreme anger and temper tantrums as a child - I just didn’t understand where it was coming from. But I am also realizing that to her, almost anything I say might be viewed as invalidating. She only remembers the times I confront her about not meeting expectations, and seems to completely forget all the times that I’m cheering her on, supporting her, telling her I’m proud of her, congratulating her, and telling her I love her. In her mind, those things never happen.  And if I try to remind her that they do, then I’m invalidating her again. I’m feeling very defeated. So now I’m working on just stepping back and not trying to influence her choices and direction in life. Because any suggestions I make are invariably viewed as criticism and invalidation.
So I think the answer on how to avoid invalidation in the future is for me to step back and let her steer her life on her own from here on out, cheer on her successes and let her deal with the consequences of her failures. Easier said than done, but I’m working on it.

[formflier]

  and seems to completely forget all the times that I’m cheering her on, supporting her, telling her I’m proud of her, congratulating her, and telling her I love her. 

What if...what if...this was the invalidating part?

Let's just suppose this is true for a bit.  What would the impact be?

What if she was not feeling loved, not feeling proud of herself, not feeling like she had done things to congratulate herself on?

So..those are her feelings and then here comes someone saying "love", "proud"...etc etc.

Can you see how that could be a mismatch?

Now...I'm certainly not suggesting you (or anyone) give up saying those things "all the time".

Would you agree that a pwBPDs "feelings" or "emotional state", might change often?  Sometimes crazy fast swings?

Does that ring true in your situation?  Could you see that when she feels lovey it would be ok to validate that and say "lovey" things?

Can you read the following article?  I'm interested in your thoughts about how it may help you avoid invalidation? (or at least lessen the chances of it)

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

Best,

FF

[Bandiro]

Reading back over my last post, I see I confirmed what Formflier just told me. Invalidation is far more harmful than validation is helpful. My daughter only remembers the times I confronted her for not meeting my expectations (not helping around house, not following rules, cutting school) which would be the invalidation, and it made her feel like she wasn't good enough. She doesn't remember all the times I validated her (which in my mind was way more often than the times I invalidated her).  All the validation in the world could not undo the effects of her perceived invalidation. And I say "perceived" not because I don't think I invalidated her. I'm sure I did. But she is extremely sensitive to invalidation.  I was the same parent to my other 2 kids, and they didn't constantly feel invalidated. I am sure they occasionally did, we all do, but not to the point that it negatively affected them in the long term.
I am reading up on how to not be invalidating. It is definitely a learned skill. Thanks for helping me learn the difference between invalidation and validation, and the significance of each. I have some work to do!

[PeaceMom]

FF poses great questions. The book “overcoming BPD” talks about the importance of mirroring the pwBPD. This is hard to do bc most times I’m simply trying to give or get logical information. We are never to say “I’m so proud of you” if they aren’t feeling personal pride, for example. This totally triggers them bc we aren’t really “seeing them” as they believe a parent should.
I think the lesson for me is that when I’m in a calm place where I can be giving of my time w/my own cup full, I can slow down and mirror DD. The book is a must read!

[Bandiro]

That article was very helpful. I will try to stay away from the "why" questions and ask the more open ended questions.
And I guess she could occasionally take words that I considered validating as invalidating.   I don't think that is a huge issue with us though. She seems to appreciate me recognizing her accomplishments. But she does not appreciate random supportive texts that she sees as manipulation so I have learned not to do that. For example, if she called me and told me she got a good grade on a test, and I congratulated her and told I knew she worked hard to get that good grade, she would thank me and seem pleased. On the other hand, if I randomly texted her that I believed in her and knew she could accomplish anything she wanted to (an example that another person used on this board recently), she would see that as me trying to manipulate her into working harder to accomplish her goals. And I think she would perceive that as invalidation, because she doesn't believe in herself and she is not accomplishing her goals right now.
I am learning that I really need to stop and think before I say anything to her. I don't always succeed, but I am getting better.