Determining what to validate when the behavior is hurtful and irrational

[Caticorn]

About a year ago, my dBPDh "investigated" my background because he thought I was cheating. (I wasn't, I had just shut down from too many years of emotional abuse from H.) As part of this investigation process, H believed I must be sleeping with someone from my past. He asked for the last name of a certain guy he was aware of from my past, who I dated for a little while, then slept with again a few months before I met my H. (H and I met (and I slept with this guy the last time) 20 years ago.)

At the time of the interrogation, I didn't want H to think I had anything to hide (because I don't), so I told H this certain guy's last name in response to his request. H became obsessed with investigating this person. H tracked him down and stalked him, both on the internet and in person. H even spoke with him in person on multiple occasions (without revealing H's identity). Based on his assessment, H believes this guy from my past to be a "dirtbag" and "disgusting."  H even took two of his friends (one male and one female) to see this guy, so that they could provide their opinion on whether or not he’s a “dirtbag.”  According to H, these friends shared his opinion and couldn’t understand why I was with this guy. H says he never would have married me if he would have seen this person before we got married. He says I am not the “prize” that he thought I was when he married me.

The past year has been a horrible roller coaster ride. H took off his wedding ring and no longer wears it because he says he doesn't want to be married to someone who would be with a guy so disgusting. He says he doesn't want to wear it in public because he's not proud to be married to me. (Of course, he won't divorce or leave me, though.) He says he doesn't respect me anymore and, though he acknowledges he has BPD, he says his opinion of me based on this guy from my past is not part of the disorder and that he just doesn't like me because of “what I did.” He said his therapist told him that there was nothing he (the therapist) could do about this situation because the therapist could not “make him like me” when he doesn’t.

When he's dysregulated, he won’t even look at me and he basically acts like I don’t exist.  I can get him out of dysregulation if I spend a considerable amount of time touching him (rubbing his back, etc.) and if we have sex. The more sex we have, the less dysregulated he is. But when he’s dysregulated, he won’t initiate any of this – I have to do it. It's humiliating to initiate physical contact with someone who says he's disgusted by me.

When he's not dysregulated, our relationship is tolerable and even pleasant. He says he still thinks about me and this guy when he’s not “mad” (his word for dysregulation) but he “doesn’t care about it as much.”  He says he feels like he has multiple personalities and he gives me “tips” on how to handle him when he’s dysregulated, including “ammunition” to use against him (his sexual past is FAR from innocent) and advice on how to bring him back to “Dr. Jeckyl” – “just touch me” and “you need to be the one to calm things down, not be the instigator.”  But he still won’t put on his wedding ring.

He’s on two medications, which help with impulse control, regulate his moods and help with depression and anxiety. The verbal abuse is better since he got on the meds, except when I provoke him. He is very easily triggered into dysregulation, by anything I do or say that might be invalidating, neglectful or not considering him emotionally, or by anything that reminds him of that guy (and since he’s done so much research, there are a lot of things he’s aware of – hair color, vehicle, occupation, etc.)

He frequently reminds me of the many years that I “emotionally abandoned” him (this was something he figured out in therapy), and says I need to rebuild his trust. (I was attempting for years to set boundaries to avoid being hurt, and instead of setting healthy boundaries, I jumped off the rollercoaster, focused on my work and my kids, and completely shut him out.)  Honestly, I think this guy from 20 years ago is just something he uses to push me away in his mind when he feels like I’m going to emotionally abandon him again.

All of this triggers me so much at this point that I end up stirring up the conflict, calling him a sexist pig, bringing up his sexual conquests, and defending myself. To make matters worse, I'm not in the best mental state either - I lost my dad in September.

So my question is this: when faced with such hurtful (as well as hypocritical, unfair, sexist, and frankly ridiculous) behavior, how and what do I validate without victimizing myself? The last thing I want to do is validate his opinions about me based on some guy from 20 years ago.

Thanks, Caticorn

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[paulaner]

I wish I could offer some help here as I struggle with the same thing. All the books and information I gather refers to validation to help minimize and back out of dysregulation on their part. I've always had that question, how are you supposed to validate things that are simply not true without just agreeing that what they are saying is true? It's very frustrating. The best time able to do at that point is try to separate myself, but in my particular case that just makes things worse and end up having to let things just play their course... I understand the concept of picking out little pieces of what's being said that are true and focusing on that but as we've all seen sometimes they're just as no truth or rationale in what's going on.

[Harri]

Hi and welcome back it has been a while.

how and what do I validate

Validation does not work for all situations all the time and there are times when it is not appropriate to validate.  I am not sure I can think of any situation where validation ends a raging dysregulation.   I have had the principles of Don't JADE work better along with boundaries (protecting myself).

That all said, when there is no valid validation target (!) focus on not invalidating which will usually escalate the situation.  Combine that with Don't JADE and have boundaries around when you will end a conversation and remove yourself from verbal abuse.  Sometimes, it is best to have graduated boundaries where over time you gradually change the way you respond.  Start with Don't JADE.  Remember Don't Invalidate and start thinking about your personal values and how you can build around them to establish boundaries.

When he is centered or back to baseline is the time to sit down and talk about his behaviors and work out a way you can let him know you will be exiting the conversation.

Validation can help but it can be very tricky and hard to learn... and again, I can't think of many scenarios where validation will reverse a rage.

All of the tools I talked about are here:  How to get the most out of this site Pick one that you think might help and we can talk about it.

 

[UBPDHelp]

Hi Caticorn,

I am new here (for a couple of months) so don’t have great advice. I did send you a private message.

I wanted to let you know you are not alone. I’ll chat more when I have some time. Others with a lot of experience will definitely help. Stay strong!

Take care!

[khibomsis]

Caticorn, it is a hard road to walk. Deciding what is dysregulation and what is not used to drive me crazy until I realized that the very hallmark of borderline is precisely fuzzy boundaries. The wisdom to know the difference is what I pray for daily.

I say this because I have two behaviour patterns depending on what it is. When beloved dysregulates I disconnect emotionally, tell myself it is not about me, it is just an emotional storm that will pass. And try to listen to the deeper message because she has no choice but to try and communicate through the storm. So learning to "speak BPD" becomes my mission in those circumstances.

When she is at baseline I try to find out what the trigger was and how we go about defusing it. With time that approach is slowly helping us get a handle on reducing harm.

Coming back from dysregulation as a couple is always the hard part, I mean we are together because we want to be happy together and so the question of a path back from those emotional storms becomes a task in itself. If I have managed to identify it as a dysregulation and kept myself emotionally safe it is easier, sometimes compassion springs spontaneously and all I have to say is "how can I help you recover?" for there to be peace.

So I am happy that I am making progress in identifying the right questions, even if I don't have the all the answers.

I feel though that in a way you possess a superpower that many of us on these boards would give our left eyeteeth to  have. To bring somebody out of dysregulation would be the key to happiness for most of us Including our partners, because if it is hard for us to experience it from the outside it must be so much harder for them. If touch and sex works for your husband then I think it is altogether a miraculous thing.

I totally understand that sex must be consensual and pleasurable, and maybe you need to talk more about how it feels for you?

For us, when beloved allows me to touch her I can bring her down by rubbing her feet. I suspect that it is the feeling of being grounded, having someone hold your space for you and you to it, that does the trick.  We can head off dysregulation if we spot it early enough by long hot baths and massages, and again it seems like you and your husband are onto something there.

Harri, I hear you about validation and agree that it is probably better as prevention than cure. I try to be mindful to pay her extra attention before dysregulation occurs, something as simple as making her a cup of tea or stroking her cheek as I pass can help when life imposes its extra stressors.  And boundaries, communication around boundaries, are so important, our own tolerance has its limits and PTSD for partners of pwBPD is real. So not to stretch too far beyond our capacity - for me when I feel the urge to be violent back I know I have pushed my tolerance too far.

I think this is a great thread! And hope that others will weigh in. What works and doesn't work for people to bring their loved ones out of dysregulation and/or return to baseline smoothly? 

 
Khib