Need help with boundaries/consequences

[Parents! Get help here!]

I feel like I've lost my way again. I posted here about a year ago when things were really bad with my (provisional) BPD daughter. She's now 15. Things that are better than they were a year ago: she's attending school; she's attending and actually working a comprehensive DBT program; she takes her meds; and we have *some* decent conversations.

She still has rage episodes where she is incredibly cruel and also makes suicidal threats. She has a new thing where she says she wants the police to come to the house, and in the last month she got a neighbor to call the police and she also called them herself, so they've been to the house twice recently. Since she isn't cutting herself she is able to assure them that she doesn't need to be 5150'd.

I think I may have let so many boundaries go getting to this point, and now things are slipping back into chaos and I don't know what to do. This weekend she did a lot of drugs in a dangerous combination, and when I found out about it, I was upset. I told her that I felt like an idiot for enabling her behavior (I had driven her to visit a friend out of town, gave her cash and stuff like that), and also that I was really worried about her drug use. I was extremely controlled in my response because we were out of town and I did not want to trigger a full on episode that could result in her being hospitalized or in jail...She spent the whole car ride home yelling at *me*. I can't even recall what her "logic" was for all of the yelling.

Now I don't know what the consequence should be. I am considering a wilderness or residential program, but I can't figure out how that would work financially.

She went to a very short term residential program last may. It was in Los Angeles at a nice house with a pool and a chef and all of that. It was covered by insurance for about 3 weeks. We could do something like that again, but I think she needs something that is going to get her to be more accountable for her behavior.

Sorry--I know that's a lot. Not sure what my exact question is, but I welcome any advice from this community.

[smallbirds]

I feel like I've lost my way again. I posted here about a year ago when things were really bad with my (provisional) BPD daughter. She's now 15. Things that are better than they were a year ago: she's attending school; she's attending and actually working a comprehensive DBT program; she takes her meds; and we have *some* decent conversations.

She still has rage episodes where she is incredibly cruel and also makes suicidal threats. She has a new thing where she says she wants the police to come to the house, and in the last month she got a neighbor to call the police and she also called them herself, so they've been to the house twice recently. Since she isn't cutting herself she is able to assure them that she doesn't need to be 5150'd.

I think I may have let so many boundaries go getting to this point, and now things are slipping back into chaos and I don't know what to do. This weekend she did a lot of drugs in a dangerous combination, and when I found out about it, I was upset. I told her that I felt like an idiot for enabling her behavior (I had driven her to visit a friend out of town, gave her cash and stuff like that), and also that I was really worried about her drug use. I was extremely controlled in my response because we were out of town and I did not want to trigger a full on episode that could result in her being hospitalized or in jail...She spent the whole car ride home yelling at *me*. I can't even recall what her "logic" was for all of the yelling.

Now I don't know what the consequence should be. I am considering a wilderness or residential program, but I can't figure out how that would work financially.

She went to a very short term residential program last may. It was in Los Angeles at a nice house with a pool and a chef and all of that. It was covered by insurance for about 3 weeks. We could do something like that again, but I think she needs something that is going to get her to be more accountable for her behavior.

Sorry--I know that's a lot. Not sure what my exact question is, but I welcome any advice from this community.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

I don't know how much advice I have to give. I'm just wondering how much of this is BPD and how much of it is teenage angst. Either way your boundaries are important how can we help you with that?

[smallbirds]

Thank you FaithHopeLove for that reminder about "normal" teenage angst.

One worry is that using grounding as a boundary is that she would end up spending so much time alone in her room ruminating and getting more depressed/suicidal.

How does this sound:
- enroll her in an after-school study hall program that she has to attend
- more chores/stricter about current chores
- no phone access after 8pm (would have to deal with giving her access to call the suicide hotline...)

[FaithHopeLove]

Worth a try.

[Done-er Stepdad]

So much of your suffering is familiar to me: The involvement of police to punish you, the painting you into a corner of submission by acting out far from home.

Our own painful conclusion was that we could establish boundaries and reasonably defend them, but that trying to impose consequences just lead to a cold war/siege of endless retribution, followed by an engorged sense of crazy power when she defied them.

We let the mean old world impose boundaries now; whether it be the court system, the utility company that shuts off her lights, or the employer who finally gives up and just fires her. At 15, she's still enjoying the life of a child, but whatever negativity she brings to herself, she should be left to deal with without your help.

[smallbirds]

Thanks. It's helpful to hear that someone else has experienced something similar, though I'm sorry that you went through that.

I do need to stop "saving" her from consequences from the outside world.

[Done-er Stepdad]

Willy Nelson once said that the sentence, "we are not in control" makes a lot more sense if we add the word, "fortunately" at the beginning of it.

If you did have the power to change her behavior, she'd never change on her own. It would always be you-dependent.

You do not have the ability to make her go to after school programs or refrain from using her phone unless you chain her to a radiator. And then again, that would be another house of cards you-dependent scenario.

The phone was a huge area of contention between my wife and my step daughter, involving actual physical wrestling of the phone out of her hands. Phone BS is an issue to this day, 10 (10!) years later. For us, escalation and punishment were dead ends.

My wife did better with withdrawing attention and being less reactive. This sets off a BPD person's abandonment issues, but you can express love and give them the clear message that if they're abusive, most of the world is going to suddenly remember they left the stove on and uh, they gotta go.

Again, with a 15 year old, it's harder to do this than with a 25 year old. But we were you 10 years ago (10!) and my best guess is that if we had bluffed her out on the emotional blackmail then, we'd be doing a few hundred percent better now -10 (10!) years later.

[Sillyusername]

Sending someone to a treatment centre when they don’t want to engage is a waste of time and money IMO.
She’s 15. Tell her she either gets help for her illness and drug use or things will change drastically and she won’t like it. She needs to face natural consequences. Stop giving her money and tell her if she goes off the rails again you’ll call the police and do it. I’m sorry but my son only stopped the violence and rage when I did call the police. I then sent him to live with his dad in non dramatic way so we are actually still in touch and getting on well. I found the more emotional I became the more he would too. I’ve accepted I was totally codependent and obsessed with his problems and rescuing him. You can’t rescue someone who doesn’t want to get out the water sadly. But you can refuse to get in it with them and also not throw in stuff to make it easier for her to continue her behaviour.
Natural consequences for her and staying out the drama triangle and self care for you is my advice for you. People with BPD can learn and can control themselves in some circumstances. And when we allow their behaviour with no consequences then they think it’s ok. Tell her the next time she rages like that at you you’ll walk away and you’re giving her zero cash for a week. And stick to it. I bet she calms down. And if not you’ve saved your money...

Always remind her that BPD is entirely treatable but that it’s up to her to engage with treatment. Hope is important but do this when she’s calm.

[livednlearned]

I think I may have let so many boundaries go getting to this point

Do you feel comfortable saying more about what boundaries have been let go?

Any thoughts on what was happening in the lead up to softening boundaries?

It can be helpful to look closely at what we do, so we can better safeguard boundaries going forward.