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Author Topic: What does my ex want?  (Read 932 times)
annie12345

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« on: March 30, 2020, 12:01:41 PM »

Hi guys, I'm new to this site as a member but have been reading posts for a while. My ex hasn't been diagnosed with BPD but it's something she herself spoke to me about thinking she had before we broke up and something I see she fits a lot of the description for anyway so I thought I would seek some advice here.

Broke up now for almost 4 months, she lined someone else up and left me for him because 'he gave her attention' etc. very general, classic reasons for a BU. Then she did a full 180 and became somebody I didn't recognise, partying, drugs, alcohol, personality wise completely different. Anyway, we'd been in no contact for just over 3 months. I don't know if she completely split me black but she definitely made up a lot of lies about me and blamed me for a lot that I didn't do in the relationship failing.

Anyway, last Sunday (Mothers Day) she reached out and said she was thinking of me (I'd lost my mum 2 years ago). I responded politely and thanked her, but she carried on the conversation and we ended up talking non-stop for 6/7 hours. Bantering back and forth even borderline flirty banter. She opened up to me about how she had been depressed a lot, had a breakdown, not in a good place etc. She added me back on snapchat almost immediately and started sending me selfies and videos of her singing sad songs (prior to this she had deleted/blocked me on every social media). I even ended the conversation and didn't respond a few times and she kept double texting me, saying she was watching my favourite movie etc.

The next day, she pops up again and messages me, the same stuff - banter, taking the pee out of me and teasing etc. and we talk for hours again.

Then, the following she turns up at my house to drop off a supply I was running low on since I'd been ill recently. I thank her and then we don't talk for the rest of the day. Later that day I find out she'd posted a photo of her current boyfriend on Instagram and so I backed off. Anyway, the next day we don't talk, but I notice she changed her profile picture on Whatsapp to a new photo of her and her BF (the first time she's changed her profile picture since JANUARY).

Another day passes and then she reaches out to me again, and we have small talk (no banter this time) and she says that she is feeling emotional and has been crying. I naturally ask what's wrong and she says she doesn't know if I want to talk about it because it involves a 'certain someone' (her BF) and her being insecure. I immediately tell her that she has friends to talk to him about (I made it clear to her before NC that I had no interest in being friends and also slipped it into convo the first day she contacted me). She then apologised and said she won't mention him, and then she started saying how she was a dick, putting herself down about a part of her body, and then started apologising for how she treated me when we BU. I literally just responded by saying that I didn't know how to respond to her apology and that a conversation about the past would not benefit either of us right now, and that I knew she simply came back to talk to me out of guilt. She denied coming back out of guilt saying she genuinely cares about whether I am okay or not. We exchanged a couple more messages of small talk after this and the conversation ended when I said I'd be there for her if she needs a distraction from feeling crap and that I hope she feels better soon and she read this and didn't respond.

The next day still no contact from her but she changed her whatsapp picture AGAIN to another one of them two.

Then the next day I found out that she met up with her new BF (he lives a few hours away and prior to this lockdown situation she stayed with him half the week) and then posted another picture of him on Instagram. We haven't spoken any more since that conversation. It's like she's gone to the other end of the extreme - hardly watching my snapchat stories until the very last minute, not messaging, nothing.

Just wanted to rant about this because it's left me stumped and confused as to why she reached out, why she's doing this, what should I do/my next move be? I do want to reconcile with her, but I know this is going to be a long process etc. I just don't know how to go about it. Why has she suddenly gone to nothing at all from messaging me constantly and coming to my house to drop things off?

Any advice/help/perspective is appreciated.
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truthbeknown
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2020, 12:48:21 AM »

no advise but just an observation.  Some folks with bpd can also have crossover traits of narcissism.  Meaning that they get "supply" or attention from someone they are focused on.  And also, the push/pull effect of I want you but I hate you causes them to treat the nons very poorly.  So sometimes they pull you back in just to hurt you because they are hurting.  Its a projection.  They hate themselves but rather then deal with those emotions it gets projected onto their partners.  So the drawing you and then knowing you would probably go check out her social media gave her power.  Imo, people with personality disorders are so disempowered that they actually misuse power and do things that most people who could regulate and have healthy boundaries wouldn't do. 

This is why non's many times will be pushed to their breaking point and go no contact.  It's not because we don't love them, it's because we finally draw a line in the sand on the abuse.

Sounds like that is what you are going through.  She is pushing your buttons and trying to get a little power "fuel" to make her feel better about herself.   

Sorry you are going through this.  I'm 4 months out in a couple of days.  Still very sad at times but I just keep telling myself that perhaps she will meet someone that doesn't trigger her as much.  I think the more they love someone the more they get triggered.  So that also explains why they pic losers after breaking up with us.  If they don't really love a new partner then they don't get triggered as much. 
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annie12345

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Relationship status: Broken up
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2020, 05:28:50 AM »

Hey truthbeknown, thank you for your reply. I am learning so much about bpd through these posts and it helps me to understand my ex and so many things I read are relatable. I don't think my ex is a narcissist as she does not fit any of the traits apart from perhaps wanting attention. Do you think that she could be contacting me from being confused about what or who she wants and then pulling away (withdrawing) because she's unsure?
I don't know how her relationship is going but it appears quite happy on social media from what I've heard (she posts lots of photos of him, professes her love, how happy she is) and she usually spends most of her week at his house again from what I've heard so I assume she must be happy? All I know from what she has told me is that she's been quite depressed the last few months, even suicidal at times, and that she was feeling insecure the other night about something regarding him and was crying about it. I took her feeling insecure in that she must really love him a lot to be crying over him, but I guess when I stand back and look at it, if she truly has bpd, then she could just be upset that much over the fear of abandonment or lack of attention. I then think if she is upset and insecure then the relationship must not be as happy as it seems. I'm still learning a lot about bpd and their relationships - I was with her for 6 years, is this not normal for a bpd individual?

I mean she deleted/blocked me on social media (apart from now she's readded me on snapchat) so the photos she posted on instagram I couldn't have seen, but yeah the Whatsapp display pictures I definitely can see and I find it odd that she's changed it twice since talking to me for the first time since January (when they got together) so that seems to be definitely for attention of some sort.

I had gone NC for 3 months and even now she has initiated contact I haven't reached out to her once etc. so am trying to keep my cool distance and not smother her. She contacted me again last night but was very different - she carried on the conversation but seemed somewhat distant/withdrawn and disinterested, leaving loads of time in between messages, calling me 'mate' in a sentence and then other terms like 'b' which...all seem pretty platonic. I don't understand why she has gone from being so full on and interested to withdrawn and disinterested - perhaps she has made up with her new BF and no longer needs that attention from me.

Her new BF definitely seems to be on paper a downgrade from me, which I have been told by her friends, family, everyone not just me being biased. But obviously she doesn't think that as she claims to be pretty in love with him, posting photos about her being happy in her relationship. The perspective about them not being triggered as much if they don't really love a new partner is definitely interesting - I wonder if this is true because she professes to everyone that she loves him and her actions suggest she is sure about him and happy but of course, this could be a facade.

Sorry for the long post - I'm just ranting my thoughts out loud!
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truthbeknown
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2020, 09:17:52 AM »

Hey truthbeknown, thank you for your reply. I don't think my ex is a narcissist as she does not fit any of the traits apart from perhaps wanting attention.

The aspects of being so focused on Their pain, Their needs and the VOID of actions of others that they love not being "good enough" is what I meant by traits of narcissism.  I used to talk about this with one of the therapists that I had because they mentioned that there are crossover traits in personality disorders or cluster b classifications.

Do you think that she could be contacting me from being confused about what or who she wants and then pulling away (withdrawing) because she's unsure?

no one can know for sure but typically people with bpd struggle with abandonment issues so if they fear being abandoned then they leave and find someone else who doesn't know about all their challenges yet so its easier to feel perfect and loved and secure when someone doesn't know all your flaws yet.  Again, what i'm reverberating is coming from having therapy sessions and reading on this subject etc.   I think a lot of us go through the stage of really trying to understand what they are thinking but the challenge is even skilled therapists can't be certain why someone with bpd does what they do other then know the thinking is skewed from typical thinking because their emotions are so intense and they don't know or haven't learned how to deal with them.  

I don't know how her relationship is going but it appears quite happy on social media from what I've heard (she posts lots of photos of him, professes her love, how happy she is) and she usually spends most of her week at his house again from what I've heard so I assume she must be happy? All I know from what she has told me is that she's been quite depressed the last few months, even suicidal at times, and that she was feeling insecure the other night about something regarding him and was crying about it. I took her feeling insecure in that she must really love him a lot to be crying over him, but I guess when I stand back and look at it, if she truly has bpd, then she could just be upset that much over the fear of abandonment or lack of attention. I then think if she is upset and insecure then the relationship must not be as happy as it seems. I'm still learning a lot about bpd and their relationships - I was with her for 6 years, is this not normal for a bpd individual?

The only "normal" is that this story is a common theme on the board or people who have been exposed or been in a relationship with someone with bpd.  We non's really want to understand but we can't conceive why if they love us they would do what they do.  It's (imo) because love means something very different to them then to most people.  I think they feel so disempowered that power doing actions that give them power like being flirtatious with others, having affairs, or just plain leaving a loving partner because that partner knows who they really are now are all factors.  I would read more,  check out more of the posts in the detaching section so you see how people further down the road have dealt with things and ultimately decide what you want from this.  For me, I was in a long term relationship with someone who was bpd and she alienates my kids from me.  So when I date now if I run across someone or a partner with these traits I am more likely to walk away for good because I see the long term effect of being with someone who won't get help.  There are success stories BUT typically there was some kind of leverage that the relationship partner had like the person with bpd not wanting the other partner to divorce them etc that eventually gets them into therapy with DBT.   I have read stories of partners with bpd who have had DBT therapy and how it has positively changed the relationship dynamic but unfortunately this can only happen if the bpd person really is motivated to want to change.  

I mean she deleted/blocked me on social media (apart from now she's readded me on snapchat) so the photos she posted on instagram I couldn't have seen, but yeah the Whatsapp display pictures I definitely can see and I find it odd that she's changed it twice since talking to me for the first time since January (when they got together) so that seems to be definitely for attention of some sort.

I had gone NC for 3 months and even now she has initiated contact I haven't reached out to her once etc. so am trying to keep my cool distance and not smother her. She contacted me again last night but was very different - she carried on the conversation but seemed somewhat distant/withdrawn and disinterested, leaving loads of time in between messages, calling me 'mate' in a sentence and then other terms like 'b' which...all seem pretty platonic. I don't understand why she has gone from being so full on and interested to withdrawn and disinterested - perhaps she has made up with her new BF and no longer needs that attention from me.

It's possible that she misses the friend she knew she had in you but when she was close to you she just couldn't deal with her intense feelings.  So having a new partner who she may not be connected to in that way even though she is in the pedestal/ valuing stage is her projecting onto him how she wants to be seen.  So it can be a positive distortion vs the negative distortions during the devaluing stage.  This is where the therapist that I had said was the similarity between bpd vs npd.  They both have infatuation and over valuing stages and both have devaluing stages but the reasons why they do it are different.  My exgf of 2 years started communication with one of her exbf's who she knew would not be a marriage candidate and would sleep with her whenever she wanted after I broke up with her the first time.  She did a similar thing in coming back to communicating with me and as soon as I engaged then she pulled away again.  It becomes a game of wanting to know they can have you but then not really wanting to have you.  I think it keeps them from feeling abandoned and in the driver seat.  That's why its tricky to decide how you want to take care of yourself because you have to ask yourself if this is what you want?  will she be interested in getting therapy? etc.  Chances are if she's with someone else, you're not married or no kids then the leverage to make that happen goes down.  

Her new BF definitely seems to be on paper a downgrade from me, which I have been told by her friends, family, everyone not just me being biased. But obviously she doesn't think that as she claims to be pretty in love with him, posting photos about her being happy in her relationship. The perspective about them not being triggered as much if they don't really love a new partner is definitely interesting - I wonder if this is true because she professes to everyone that she loves him and her actions suggest she is sure about him and happy but of course, this could be a facade.

It's normal to try and compare yourself in attempts to try and understand why she is with another.  I think its a pretty normal stage that we all go through.  Trying to understand why they left and make some sense out if it.  There is NO making sense out of this because it is not healthy behavior.   As much as I have loved the few partners that I had with bpd, it helps me to think of them as a child in an adult body.  When a child is in the toddler thinking mode, they want what they want without reason because that part of their brain hasn't developed yet.  As parents we set boundaries otherwise they would do whatever they wanted including things that aren't healthy for them (like running in the street/ eating candy as their main meal everyday etc).  Also in the teenage stage, there is rebellion and wanting to do the opposite of what everyone else thinks they should do (the fight for autonomy).  So I have come to believe that there are power struggles and they put us in "parent mode" and then rebel against us when we try to establish or regain the norms that we once had with them.  This is the travesty;  going from the fun adult they are with great sex etc to having to deal with a switching back and forth between their adult mind and their child mind.  The inconsistency is what is hard for us non's but ultimately we have to decide what is best for us.


Sorry for the long post - I'm just ranting my thoughts out loud!
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annie12345

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Relationship status: Broken up
Posts: 12


« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2020, 07:06:05 AM »

Just checking back in because I found it quite helpful to log and vent with what happens.

Spoke to my ex again last night and she said she wasn't in a good place. We then ended up speaking until early hours of the morning where she ended up in a very depressed mindset and I comforted her and she opened up to me. She said that she wanted her best friend back and that she missed me, she apologised for how she behaved again and said she's regretted it every since and will always regret it. She said it's hard because 'what I want and what you want are different things' (I assume meaning friendship vs relationship), but she said that she was overwhelmed as she had been blocking out her feelings about us and were trying to process them. She said that she couldn't stop crying and her mind was a mess and confused, and that old memories of us were too much to handle at the moment because it was making her cry more. She also said that her BF was also just as depressed as her and that she couldn't handle it. She kind of opened up a lot more about stuff and kept trying to get me to tell her how I felt it seemed - but I resisted telling her I loved her and that I still wanted her etc. but it felt like she kept trying to get me to say it or fish for that (like asking me to send her the letters I'd written about her etc. as I'm a writer).

Towards the end of the conversation, she said that she was having to comfort her BF and 'play counsellor' for him and wasn't responding as much - so I asked if she wanted space to go talk to him and she kept saying no, stay, distract her and stuff so I did for a while. Eventually she went to sleep and it was left.

I think I'm going to leave it and let her contact me if she does again, because she did say that what we want are different things and implied that she just wanted a friendship, which... obviously I do love her still and want to be with her so I don't know if being friendly is the subtle, gentle way of coming back into her life in that capacity or if it would just get me stuck in that place forever which I don't want. Obviously it does hurt to know that she still loves and wants him and is wanting to be with him (perhaps that's what she meant by wanting different things) but I don't regret being there for her last night as I feel the conversation was quite productive and got her to open up and also I don't know whether she would have done something had I not been, as her BF wasn't there talking to her about it and helping her through.
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truthbeknown
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2020, 07:11:43 AM »

do you think she is conflicted more then you are about her sexuality choices?  does she find it difficult to juggle a relationship with you and with him?  could he not be accepting of her being with you and hence a conflict? 

What is your position on this? were you just wanting a monogamous relationship with her?
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annie12345

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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2020, 07:29:04 AM »

Hi truthbeknown, hope you're well today!

I guess I probably should have clarified before now - I'm a female and I'm bisexual as is she. She is very vocal and public about being so and very actively lgbt involved. However, I do feel she may be conflicted in her sexuality a little. I was her first female relationship and he is her first male sexual relationship so. I do believe she still has attraction to males and females, I just am unsure if she has attraction towards me right now specifically Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I'm not sure how she feels about juggling a relationship - I have a strong feeling he doesn't even know she's communicating with me because he seems to be quite a jealous person from what I've heard and seen online but again I don't know this for sure.

What do you mean re not accept her being with me? I feel like he wouldn't accept us being friends at the least so no.

Yeah - I wouldn't be able to handle her being with somebody else as well, especially him as she kind of 'chose him over me' I guess. But I feel that she doesn't want anything other than a friendship from me judging by that conversation last night but I do also have very black and white thinking about situations myself sometimes I find so it could be more complex than that. I mean she did also hint at asking me about my sexual experiences since her - she was joking around asking if I'd been writing about my sex life as I'd told her I had been writing and when she asked me to share it with her I said I couldn't because it's not appropriate and she would thank me for not sharing it (meaning it was lovey stuff about her Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ) but she persisted in asking me to share it even though I told her all of this and said that she already knew what it was about. I never did in the end. Sorry I slightly got off on a tangent there.
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truthbeknown
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2020, 11:29:59 AM »

there are different possibilities and it's always difficult to understand completely what another is thinking.  Why do you think she has bpd?  she may just be conflicted sexually and that kind of throws her into inner conflict.  I'm not bisexual but I used to know someone who is.  When she met her now husband, she explained that she was and asked if it was okay for her to have female gf's as well.  She told me that he agreed as long as she was safe and used safe sex practices.  In this example, it is not un-natural for someone bisexual to want to know where their other partner has been.  However, I understand if you don't consider to be in a relationship with her that that is your business.  I just wanted to give you another point of view.   

Also it sounds like she is young (not sure your age) so if she is just learning about herself she might not be sure what she wants.  If you are open to it then perhaps just give her time to work things out (if you are okay being friends with her?).    Whether relationships are hetero, bi, gay or open the best we can do is have our desires and agreements stated up front (not sure if you guys spoke of these things and if you did ignore this sentence) so that the boundaries are understood. 

It sounds like you love her and the best quote I heard on love is that we want whats best for the other person equal to what we want best for ourselves and when those two dynamics are reciprocated that love can be fair and balanced.  If the dynamic is unbalanced and one wants more for themselves then they want for the other person things typically don't work out.   In looking at bpd dynamics they are typically one sided.  The fact that you admit to your own black and white thinking is an awesome opportunity to explore this concept.  Rather then looking at it as all or nothing you may have the chance to find the grey area in this.   

It's great that you're here and learning and I appreciate you sharing your story.  feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions you have for me. 
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2020, 02:28:20 AM »

Excerpt
Just wanted to rant about this because it's left me stumped and confused as to why she reached out, why she's doing this, what should I do/my next move be? I do want to reconcile with her, but I know this is going to be a long process etc. I just don't know how to go about it. Why has she suddenly gone to nothing at all from messaging me constantly and coming to my house to drop things off?

its a hard place that youre in. ive been there.

the first thing is that people with bpd traits are frequently inappropriate when it comes to what appropriate boundaries look like when youre somewhere between in a new relationship, still want to be friends, still have feelings, want to be on good terms.

its hard to navigate, and the person you love just plain isnt good at it. so shes confused and acting confusingly.

she reached out primarily to maintain a connection with you. shes conflicted as you are, shes also going about navigating in a different way. she may also have residual feelings for you.

its a good move to stay out of any talk of her relationship. you want to give it a wide berth, let it stand or fall on its own. plus, youre an ex lover, and it hurts to hear. and sometimes, you just have to come out and say it, shut it down.

why has she gone from hitting you up constantly to nothing at all?

shes not processing this in the same way that you are. a lot of her attention is on the new relationship. shes not in the same place when it comes to analyzing your interactions, though, having said that, she probably feels dumb and self conscious (as people with bpd traits are prone to feel) at bringing things up with you and getting shut down.

youre right that this is a long game. as i said, their relationship needs room to stand or fall, and you want to give that a wide berth. also, in terms of your goal of reconciliation, the day to day interaction (or not) matters very little in the bigger picture. its understandable that the more distance grows, the more urgent youre going to feel, but its a pretty necessary part of an awkward transition, and going through it, the more youll see that success isnt built on talking each day, or every other day, or even every week.

its built on getting through, getting back to living your life. its built on getting back to the strong, upbeat, confident guy she fell for. its built on understanding why your relationship broke down, and how thats going to be resolved. its built on her relationship crashing and burning, and the two of you reconnecting in a new and different context.

make sense?
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annie12345

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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2020, 08:52:09 AM »

Hey guys, just making a post to kind of get my thoughts out, log them.

We've been talking on and off the last few weeks. She's initiated everything still - I don't text first, but I do respond. I've noticed some sort of 'pattern': she texts a lot (may even get deep like the last post I added to this thread explained, but mostly been surface level stuff) and then ghosts. I hear nothing for days, infact she even goes as far to not look at my stories I post. Then, she'll start viewing my stories as soon as they go up - often the first person to do so - and then will pop up with a message and her replies will be instant. Then the next day she'll go back to ghosting again. At this point I don't really take much notice of this pattern because I kind of expect it. I just don't really understand why she's doing this. I read it could be because of mixed feelings? I don't know. I think for me it's pretty clear she's just being platonic.

Last night this same pattern happened again - she popped up talking about something, surface level chat for a bit and then she picked up on something that I said about being in my head about something and having had a tough few days. She asked why, what was going on etc. and kept saying that she's there for me. I told her I was okay and that I was just processing things (didn't tell her specifics of what it was about) and told her I was fine. I did respond by saying that I didn't want to keep her up or disturb her from whatever she was doing or talking to and I guess I just had my guard up because I didn't wanna be hurt by her? She then continued to say she was there for me, that she wasn't doing anything and I wasn't an inconvenience or anything and wanted to distract me and cheer me up 'unless I wanted her to F off' and I said 'okay, distraction is okay'. She continued to send me a couple photos of random things, trying to be jokey and stuff, then she disappeared. I assume she either fell asleep or something. I text her again saying that I figured she'd fallen asleep or got busy, thanks for trying to distract me and have a good day (today). I noticed she opened them this morning early but didn't respond, and is back to not watching any of my stories again. I get that she probably fell asleep or something, or idk, was distracted by her BF, but why would she then not say anything this morning, or ask if I was okay or something? Instead she is back to ghosting. I don't think at this point it's an ego stroke, talking to me, because I'm not stroking her ego in any way. I can't even put the ghosting down to her being busy... because she's not busy right now, she said that herself and we're all on lockdown haha! She's literally been sitting at home, watching movies on TV. That's really it.

Anyway - just wanted to get my thoughts out. If anyone has any perspective it is always much appreciated.

PS: I guess if I also look back on things, the majority of our conversation has happened in the evening/at night. We have conversed during the day yes, but not much. I'd say 80-90% has happened at night/evening time.
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2020, 01:02:37 AM »

Excerpt
. At this point I don't really take much notice of this pattern because I kind of expect it. I just don't really understand why she's doing this. I read it could be because of mixed feelings? I don't know. I think for me it's pretty clear she's just being platonic.

i think this speaks to what i said here:

Excerpt
shes not processing this in the same way that you are. a lot of her attention is on the new relationship. shes not in the same place when it comes to analyzing your interactions

you are more emotionally involved in the day to day interactions, last time you spoke, how it went, what shes thinking, than she is. thats natural if you are wanting to reconcile a relationship.

but its also short sighted, and it will drive you crazy.

to get through this, youre going to have to play the long game, rather than place too much emphasis on each interaction, or when the next one will be. youre going to have to let the new relationship play out, while detaching a bit and living/building up your own life, and, in the meantime, you also, within reason, try to stay on her radar, and just be the confident upbeat guy she fell for in the first place (a lot of that will come from living/building up your own life).

does that make sense?
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2020, 06:01:10 AM »

Hey Once Removed, thank you for your response and advice, I completely get you.

I'm trying to get my head out of the short picture and trying to look at the process rather than each individual interaction.

I'm definitely trying to get on with my life - have so many things I've worked on since the BU and I'm definitely a better person since that, so I'm hoping she notices that but if she doesn't then that's okay - I made these changes for myself, nobody else.

I think the lockdown COVID situation is just making me mull everything over more in my head than what I would usually and that's perhaps why I'm getting caught up in things. It's making me miss her more, too, which is a pain. I just fear that her feelings for me really are completely gone, that she genuinely does just want a platonic relationship from now on. How can I tell, if she wants just that or more? Is there any way of even telling that? And does this differ from non-bpd to bpd in terms of her maybe having mixed feelings or, her reasons for getting in contact or even wanting to reconcile? Not sure that made sense, just a thought I had.
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2020, 02:10:38 AM »

I just fear that her feelings for me really are completely gone, that she genuinely does just want a platonic relationship from now on. How can I tell, if she wants just that or more? Is there any way of even telling that? And does this differ from non-bpd to bpd in terms of her maybe having mixed feelings or, her reasons for getting in contact or even wanting to reconcile? Not sure that made sense, just a thought I had.

there is a way of telling if a woman wants more than a platonic relationship. it does not sound, right now, like she is showing signs of that, but that stands to reason, shes in a relationship. it doesnt have to be the end of the world or your chances, but thats just going to have to play out. the best card you can play, as i said, is to build up your life, to be, generally, attractive.

i dont think her feelings are completely gone. they dont sound like they are romantic feelings, but in this scenario, they dont have to be. she thinks of you fondly and desires closeness with you. its really about the best place to be, in this scenario. it wouldnt even necessarily be a great sign if she were all over you while in a relationship, ya know? women are complicated. you are something of a priority in her life. when and if her relationship ends, thats where you want to be. but if youd rather she be your girlfriend than your friend, those are the signals you need the send, the cards you need to play.

does it differ between a non-bpd and someone with bpd traits? it can, in a variety of ways. people with bpd traits can be really inappropriate post relationship, and youve seen some of that. they also tend to have a harder time detaching, and like to remain in good graces, and youve seen some of that. they also can be more engrossed than usual in a new relationship, and youve seen some of that.
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2020, 07:54:22 AM »

No it doesn't sound like she is showing romantic feelings right now, I was definitely picking up a more platonic side of things.

I hear you. How can I send signals of more wanting her to be my girlfriend than friend? How can I make that clear distinction or rather, what cards should I play? I have been flirting but not too over the top, lots of banter and teasing (which she reciprocates the latter two and sometimes very subtly flirts). Haven't complimented her or anything though, yet.

I get what you're saying here, does the fact that she is more engrossed than usual in her new relationship indicate that she is less likely to want to break up with him or that it's going to be harder than usual to reconcile with her?

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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2020, 10:22:22 PM »

I get what you're saying here, does the fact that she is more engrossed than usual in her new relationship indicate that she is less likely to want to break up with him or that it's going to be harder than usual to reconcile with her?

put yourself in her shoes. youre really into this new chick. you have a long, but complicated and dramatic history with an old chick. youre going to invest more where the grass is greener, but you dont necessarily want to throw out that old history.

it doesnt make it more or less likely that they break up, or speak to sooner or later. its just got to play out, youve got to see where its going.

Excerpt
I hear you. How can I send signals of more wanting her to be my girlfriend than friend? How can I make that clear distinction or rather, what cards should I play?

put yourself in her shoes here, too. for example, if she were making herself overly available to you, sending signs she wants to be your girlfriend and that shes all yours, youd probably rest comfortably knowing thats an option. maybe youd be a little turned off.

be the fun, confident, upbeat guy that she fell for in the first place. dont be her confidant, or a door mat. theres not a lot more to it than that; if youre anything like me, you may be reading too much into each interaction and wondering if its a sign that she likes you, and women, in general, just dont view things the same way. the more youre just building up your life, getting things on the ball, independent of her, the more attractive you look.
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2020, 09:13:48 AM »

Just another update - mostly for myself.

It's progressed now to talking every day, her always being the one to text me and she carries on the conversation now even when I give short/one word answers. She's also flirting a lot more but in a very 'bantery' way - i.e. picking on eachother etc. She's also been having a few 'bad' nights in which she has gotten into a really bad headspace and saying she doesn't want to be here, that she is the most depressed and suicidal she has ever been in her life since January (the month after we broke up, when her and her new BF officially got together). I tried to ask what it was that was making her feel this way, if she knew what it was - she said yes and that it wasn't something fixable, it was something 'she was just gonna have to come to terms with' and wouldn't say anymore. She said the only thing she could fix that was making her mental health worse was being at home with her family (she moved back to her family home after the BU) and she really hates living there, she's not getting on with her family at all at the moment. I've been trying to help comfort her in those moments, and she even said she was listening to sad songs (she named a few and they were all break up songs which I thought was strange).

She has also said a couple times that 'she thought we were kinda friends' and that we were having friendly banter etc. to which I kind of reacted and was like, we're not friends... and she didn't really take too kindly to that.

So it's been kind of back and forth - she mentioned the 'friend' thing but then in other texts she was being quite flirty. I have complimented her once - she just said 'thank you' and didn't really respond much to it but that was the only time. So generally I thought things were going well, that perhaps talking again had changed things a little or progress had been made as it was becoming more frequent and more... that connection we used to have seemed to be there.

Then I found out that she has gone down to continue the rest of quarantine with her new boyfriend today. Her family won't let her back home because one of them is a vulnerable person and they told her this, but she still chose to leave and be with him for the rest of the (forseeable and of unknown duration) quarantine going on. The way I see it is that you wouldn't do this if you were having any doubts about the RS or having confusion or any feelings towards your ex, so that's kind of it for me. Maybe I'm seeing it too black and white myself, but for me that kind of says that perhaps this whole time she just wanted to be a friend and that actually she is quite happy with her new BF/RS and pretty in love with him - or else why would she go to his house to be with him 24/7 knowing she can't go back home, for who knows how long? I just feel kind of annoyed at myself, at the situation, at her. Just annoyed in general.
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2020, 12:50:33 AM »

you are right that she is investing in the new relationship.

it remains the case that that is simply something you are going to have to play out.

if you are reading too much into the daily interactions with her, and getting your hopes up, youre going to be crushed any time you see or hear that the two of them are going well, or getting more serious, or not doing badly, or whatever.

theres not anything, right now, that can be gained in your interactions with her. the primary point is that you kind of want to stay on her radar, when and if things in the relationship do go south.

but you dont want to do so to the point that you are attached in a way that feels like being in a relationship with her. thats no way to live.

i would encourage you to detach on some level. not to let go of hope, but to really invest your focus elsewhere, build up your life, give yourself things to focus on and look forward to.
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2020, 08:58:52 AM »

Hi, another update.

I guess I have been forced to detach, as I have not heard a word from my ex since she went to live at her new BF's house on Monday. Not a peep. No contact again. She continued to watch my stories on snapchat pretty much as soon as they went up until yesterday. She has not watched my snap stories yet from yesterday and I wonder if she has deleted me off of there again because of him, since she already deleted me a month after the BU and re-added me on there when she got back in contact about 5 weeks ago or so. I figured she wouldn't exactly be looking at my stories or having contact with me whilst he is there as he probably doesn't know we have spoken, anyone would act this way, to be honest. But she could have contacted or looked or anything while he is not around but she has not, so from that I kind of draw the conclusion that she doesn't want to be in contact with me.

I wonder if I will ever be hearing from her again if she is going to be with him all the time now. It kind of leaves me feeling confused, like a kick in the gut - because she was very persistent about coming back into my life, telling me she missed me, how sorry she was and how important I was in her life, even telling me she was always there for me and 'wasn't going to let anything happen' to me and all of that talk, speaking every day... and then she just goes to the other end of the extreme and says nothing, potentially even deleted again. What the hell?
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2020, 02:39:30 AM »

its like i said: put yourself in her shoes.

if you were in a relationship, would you be thinking in these terms?

she hasnt forgotten you exist. you just dont occupy the same chunk of her life that you previously did.

but she occupies yours. so youre reading things differently than she is, and interpreting it differently than she is.

it hurts, it sucks, but its the mindset that hurts more than the reality of it all.

you have to play the long game here. the reality is that the day to day stuff, the snapchat stories, thats the short game.
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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2020, 09:05:58 AM »

Hey, just another update again as I think it helps to get things out and kind of furthers my understanding of things because...well my ex is confusing as hell!

So I heard nothing from my ex for about 6 weeks, starting from when she moved in with her BF. She continued to watch my social media and even stalk social media from an old account of hers that she claimed to have 'forgotten the password for' a few years back (I don't know if she forgets that I can see her stalking from this account or if she wants me to know or what but it still has tons of loved up couple photos of us on too which I had just assumed she would delete). Then she popped up again and sent me a text on the anniversary of a family death. She NEVER texts usually, anyone, (we always had communicated by whatsapp and social media) so I assumed from this that I was probably saved under a different name or something in her phone haha! Anyway she sent a message saying she was thinking of me, if I wanted to talk she was there etc. and making conversation about things I'd mentioned ages ago (like last year). We texted back and forth the whole night and convo was light-hearted and definitely banter and fun. She did keep mentioning things that were different about me, almost acting shocked and surprised that I was a different person, doing new things and that i had changed etc. The convo was quite nice and she was saying that she wants to get to know this new me and that she 'might like this new me'.
Then the convo kind of stopped. She stopped replying and went missing for a few days.

I texted a few days later asking if she was okay and she replied that she wasn't, she had been in a bad place and didn't want to talk to anyone. I tried to be helpful/supportive and told her I was there for her if she needed, and sent her some techniques/things she used to find helpful during bad periods. She disappeared again and a few days later she text saying she was grateful for my support and appreciated that I was sending her words of encouragement/support and that she hadn't replied because she didn't want to talk to anyone and it wasn't personal. She told me that things now were worse than they were the last time we spoke and that they were just continuing to get worse. I tried to ask why/how but she didn't say and kept being vague. This pattern of disappearing, then resurfacing continued, and a few days later we had another exchange and she seemed a lot more open to talking - even flirting for part of the convo. It seemed like a different person. There were moments where she said that she had also changed and she didn't think I would like the new her because she has picked up bad habits etc. and didn't expand on that. She basically has been cryptic and vague about everything. Again, she disappeared for a few days and reached out asking me to send her songs because she was in a bad place. Then the next day she would change to being 'bantery' again. She also tried to ask what was going on in my life and said that she was asking because she was 'trying to be a friend' and when I said that I don't want to be friends with her, she kept insisting that she considered herself a friend and that one day I will too as opposed to not a friend, and things like she was considering running off to the country I had always wanted to live in, then later she brought up a holiday we went on a few years back, reminiscing about it, then straight after she stopped replying. The last message I sent was again saying that I was here for her if she needed me and she has ignored that and ghosted again. I haven't heard from her in about a week and a half. She has continued to watch my social media and stalk from her old account, though.

I'm not really sure what to make of her behaviour, back and forth. I thought that our last interaction a couple months ago would be our last considering she had made the step to move in with her new BF. She only seemed to interact with me at certain times and by text so i'm guessing her BF doesn't know we are in contact and she likely only contacted when he wasn't around. She also seemed to disappear or 'turn funny' when I mentioned other people in my life too. She did seem different this time compared to last time we spoke - beforehand she was messaging, initiating, trying to be in my life and making effort, and she was coming to me to talk when she was in a bad place, and somewhat opening up about what was bothering her. But this time she is different - disappearing for days, only messaging early morning or late nights, saying she doesn't want to talk when she is bad (which is very different for her, usually she does talk or want to be distracted, isolating is very out of the ordinary for her), and basically being vague about everything, acting disinterested at times and like talking to me is inconvenient and then the next day bantering and reminiscing. I never did get to the bottom of why/how she is in a worse mental place than when we last spoke 2 months ago either. It just makes no sense why she keeps saying that 'she misses her best friend' and that she is 'trying to be a friend to me' when her behaviour is far from that of a friend and we were never friends before we got together in the first place anyway?

Anyway just thought I would get those baffling interactions out. I had moved on a lot more with my life since our last period of contact, as much as I do still love my ex very much, and am even dating and talking to new people now. Anyway, any perspective/opinion/advice on this is much appreciated as I do always try to understand this curious behaviour.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:13:58 AM by annie12345 » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2020, 03:13:03 AM »

the two of you are on really different pages.

shes in a romantic relationship. it is occupying a great deal of her headspace.

you want her back.

she wants to be friends with you. shes making friendly overtures.

youre reciprocating. but that reciprocation is mainly based on how much effort she puts forth, and whether it feels romantic. when she suggests that its friendly, you say you dont want to be friends.

youve got to read her here. youre sending mixed signals, and operating more on hope rather than looking at the long game.
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