Unable to cope with the silent treatment/waiting game

[AnAwkwardGeek]

I don't even know where/how to start so I apologize if this is a bit rambly before it makes a point but I feel the need to preface certain things.

I've never been good with women and because of that I have chronic self-esteem issues, I wouldn't say they are generally debilitating but I certainly have issues when it comes to courting women. 
I've had 2 real relationships in my life: 
The first one lasted 7 years with the first girl who gave me the time of day senior year of high school, we weren't great for each other and it ended up being a relationship of convenience.  I didn't complain as she was a very enthusiastic lover even during the rough patches.  It ended with her cheating on me and emptying my bank account which she had access to on her way out. 
3 years single, tried dating again, got rejected after a few dates with a girl I wasn't even really interested in.  I don't count this as a 'relationship' but it taught me that I don't handle rejection well as it left me depressed for a month before even trying to meet another woman. 
The next woman I dated didn't reject me so I stuck with her for fear of being alone.  This relationship lasted nearly a decade and we got engaged halfway through because it seemed like the right thing to do, the problem is that there was no initial spark, she wasn't my 'type' but she was very kind to me.  She embraced many of the things that I enjoy such as genres of shows and movies and she also put up with my other hobbies even participating now and again despite not really being interested in them.  I could go on for paragraphs how well she treated me and all of the positive things about her, but in the end it didn't matter.  While I did grow to love her very much, I hardly if ever felt as though I were 'in love' with her.  It didn't help that the sex started off 'meh' at the beginning and dried up completely so long ago I don't even remember exactly how long ago it was, I think before we got engaged (4 years ago).  As much as I would try to give it there was very little affection in the relationship, and no passion whatsoever.  Long story short, for the past 2+ years I felt as though we were more like roommates than a couple and I wanted more, something I couldn't get from her.  We discussed it from time to time, I'd ask a direct question such as "if we get married tomorrow, what would our honeymoon be like?" and she said 'I'm going to fix it', years passed nothing seemed to happen to change anything in the dynamic... Until last year.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I started a new job in the summer at a firm, I was nervous because it was a new type of vocation for me but I was determined to work full time again so despite any anxiety I had, I applied, got the job and the first day of work was upon me.  During the orientation I noticed this one woman out of the several hundred people in the crowd before I even knew we were going to be working in the same area.  She piqued my interest right away but being in the 'I'm engaged' mindset I couldn't even put my finger on why, despite it being plain as day she was my 'type'.
As luck would have it, we ended up being put on the same team and we even got to work together the first few days before they officiated her position assisting our manager.
She was quirky and somewhat awkward and clearly very earnest in her work ethic.  The few times I found her having enough time to talk quickly taught me that she was very genuine and sweet as well.  She taught me everything I needed to know to succeed in my new position quickly and we developed a very good work rapport.  Before the end of the summer they needed to find someone to train as a stand in for her during the times she would go on leave or take a sick day etc.. She ended up choosing me and we ended up spending even more time together.  I was loving it, I had job security, and a new friend (Having moved out of my home state years ago my few close friends drifted away for various reasons).
As time passed and we were getting to know one another better I started noticing how poorly she'd handle the more stressful humps that our workplace would sometimes put us through, she'd usually power past it, but when nobody else was around she started getting comfortable letting me see the cracks, she'd break down in her office over a manager giving her a hard time, or a staff member getting terminated for something insignificant.  I'm not very good at comforting people due to high-functioning aspergers that gave me difficulty detecting sarcasm and a delayed emotional response (thankfully a decade of retail work taught me empathy and other social skills).  The only way I was able to cheer her up was we would swap stories about how horrible we are at 'dealing with people'.  She opened up to me that she suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder, severely enough that she was hospitalized for suicide attempts on more than one occasion and that she has had a plethora of terrible relationships in the past, one so bad that it caused her to transfer to this area in the first place.  She said on her days off she'd hardly ever leave her apartment, only leaving to shop for groceries and even then aiming for times when there were few other customers.  Eventually I figured her cues out enough that I'd simply offer to take over for her and she could go home early if she started feeling the stress and that worked well and we kept on working, just friends, no tension no nothing.
By the time winter came we were going out to eat together for breaks almost daily.  I spontaneously to even my own surprise gave her my cell number and told her to text me whenever she needed to vent etc..  By this time I had realized I found her attractive, but did nothing, I was of course engaged to a loving woman and the aspergers rendered me immune to all forms of flirting so I wouldn't have been able to tell if she were into me anyway.  In fact I had assumed she didn't find me attractive and came to the conclusion that even were I single any pursuit would be in vain.
At some point I had realized I was falling for her, hard.  Around the same time the management of our firm was increasingly causing her undue stress and she decided she needed to leave if the opportunity presented itself so she began applying for promotions off-site in other states.  By this time I knew the clock was ticking so I told her I wanted to get her out of her 'shell' and that we should go hang out on a day off.  She agreed but we never made any specific plans until she got her promotion at another firm 1000 miles away back out near her home state.  Knowing her last day working with me was in 2 weeks we spent a Saturday together just chatting it up at a cafe, then dinner at a restaurant over a period of 10 hours.  We vented about work, life and the usual but in more detail than we ever had a chance to at work.  I told her about my relationship problems and how I was desiring to leave my relationship but I was scared to be alone so I was staying, basically how much life sucks even when there's nothing really 'wrong'.  Somehow everything was still completely platonic despite knowing full well that I had fallen for her already.  I wanted to see her again so I offered to take her out one state over so I could show her some sites before she left and she agreed to go with me the day after her last day (she was moving the day after that), she agreed enthusiastically.  That week during one of the meal breaks I blurted out something about liking her in that way, she hugged me and didn't seem bothered.  On her last day of work we ended up taking an extended break simply for the hell of it just to hang out, the topic didn't come up but we did banter a bit.  We even came back to work at different times because we realized that it would look suspicious us both coming back late (A no-no with superior/subordinate).

Then our day out arrived.  On the way there, I was convinced still that she was going to reject me but I decided to tell her how I felt, I was hurting already assuming the rejection, what's the alternative?  That she says yes and I'm happy?
I walk into her apartment and we say a few words, she was preparing some things for her move and I suddenly told her she wasn't my boss anymore and asked her if we were going to be a couple now.  She sat down next to me, lightly protested 'but you're engaged' to which I replied only because I'm too much of a coward to end it.  She said that she didn't want that guilt again (she homewrecked once before) and I reassured her that there was no real home to wreck.  Then she kissed me and we were on each other like a pair of wild animals.  We embraced and kissed for about 20 minutes and before things moved to the bedroom I reminded her that we had plans that evening, so we went out.  Over the next 6 hours we held hands, kissed, expressed disbelief that this was actually happening, said "I love you" to each other more times than I could count.  We ended up going to everywhere we planned, talked endlessly about our kinks, what to expect being in a relationship, got a lot of the hard questions out of the way. We got back to her place at 2:00am and spent the night making passionate love until long after the sun came up.  We laughed, and cried, I expressed to her how I had never felt closer to anyone in my entire life than I did to her.  At one point I asked her to slap me so I knew I wasn't dreaming and she held my face so tenderly saying she could never do anything to hurt me and I'll never forget the look on her face as she told me that I was her "favorite".  I didn't leave until about 9:00am that morning.  It was the best day of my life by an order of magnitude.

That afternoon I came back out to see her briefly and help her pack the rest of her things and dispose of a couple of larger items.  Despite being obviously stressed with a 16 hour drive ahead and only 2 hours sleep the night before, every time we kissed she had that same look of pure bliss on her face.  For the last hour together I couldn't stop crying because I didn't want to say goodbye, she told me "then don't let it be good bye".  We agreed that this was only the beginning for us and that I'd go out to visit her soon.  I told her that I would properly end my engagement and do right by her and that the future looked bright. 

She gave me one warning though, that she wasn't that great at communication.  This was 5 weeks ago.

A few days later I began the process of ending my engagement.  I did what I could to soften the blow, and she admitted that as much as it hurt, she saw it coming.  After 2 weeks she confronted me and asked me if I was in love with the other woman she had been up until that point only jokingly referring to as 'my girlfriend' and I came clean.  She gave me back the engagement ring, but overall took it better than I had expected her to.  We still get along for the most part, now that we're under quarantine we don't have much of a choice anyway.

In the meantime my new love and I were texting (fairly?) regularly couple times a day, though mostly about mundane things.  She continued to avoid any deeper topics for some reason.  I reassured her by telling her how much I missed her and how much I loved her and how much I looked forward to visiting.  She would reply positively but very brief, short responses.  There are a lot of stressers for her back out there being only an hour from home and also the whole Covid19 thing started so I didn't expect her to be all sunshine and daisies.  The thing that struck me as odd was she would keep suggesting I do things with my fiancee, "oh you should go running together" or "when the weather is nice you should go on a picnic".  I couldn't tell if she was in denial or if she was feeling guilty.

A day after I was given back the ring, I told my new love that I wanted to take time off to visit her already, that I wasn't taking the separation well (I wasn't).  She said it was 'too soon' and that we needed to wait for everything to be safer, referring to Covid19, this was also the only text that she sent me actually saying "I love you" in it, she hasn't once expressed that she missed me.  After that I told her that I finalized ending my engagement.  She didn't respond for a day and the response was simply "I was really hoping you could have made amends".  I thanked her for having her heart in the right place and told her not to worry, that everything was going better than expected on this end (I wanted to alleviate any guilt she may have had).
At this point she wouldn't even read my texts to her for 2-3 days at a time, only responding to my texts about work related things if at all, until last Thursday when she stopped responding entirely.  I've tried to not bombard her with messages, so I've been keeping it short and brief with what's been going on, the occasional 'I love you' but she hasn't even read a message since Saturday (Messenger notifies me when the message has been read).  She also hasn't picked up her phone a single time when I try to call her since our day together.

I realize that its only been a week since she started playing this game, but I can't handle not knowing what's going on, couple that with the 1000 mile distance and its causing me to have minor breakdowns daily due to separation anxiety.  We are in a long distance relationship now and the most important part of LDR is communication.  If she needs space, can't she just tell me?  I trust her, so I don't believe she isn't still serious about us.  How long am I supposed to wait before I take the next step?  She hasn't even given me her new address yet and I'm afraid to ask.  If the distance is too much for her she knows that it won't be difficult for me to transfer to her new facility so we can be together.

I know I can't be her savior, but I still want to do whatever it is that I can to help her get through whatever she's going through.  I also have this horrible feeling that something bad is going to happen if I sit back and do nothing.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi AnAwkwardGeek, and

it sounds like quite a whirlwind romance youve been in.

its a similar path that a lot of members here have been on, coming out of a relationship, into this new, exhilarating one.

it sounds like she has been sending a lot of signals that things have been moving too quickly for her. while she may not come out and say it, the signals have been clear over time. heed them. as hard as i know this is to go through, and as much as you want answers, the worst message you could send would be to push for more, or to wear your heart on your sleeve right now.

people in her position (moving, job transition, kind of seeing a new guy, feeling like a home wrecker) tend to be overwhelmed by it all. you dont want to add to that.

i know there are words or actions you want to find right now to make things better, but it seems to me the best action you can take is to read her, and not to send anymore messages.

what do you think?

[AnAwkwardGeek]

hi AnAwkwardGeek, and

it sounds like quite a whirlwind romance youve been in.

its a similar path that a lot of members here have been on, coming out of a relationship, into this new, exhilarating one.

it sounds like she has been sending a lot of signals that things have been moving too quickly for her. while she may not come out and say it, the signals have been clear over time. heed them. as hard as i know this is to go through, and as much as you want answers, the worst message you could send would be to push for more, or to wear your heart on your sleeve right now.

people in her position (moving, job transition, kind of seeing a new guy, feeling like a home wrecker) tend to be overwhelmed by it all. you dont want to add to that.

i know there are words or actions you want to find right now to make things better, but it seems to me the best action you can take is to read her, and not to send anymore messages.

what do you think?

Still no word from her in the meantime, I last messaged her on Friday afternoon.

I've already turned my life upside down just to show her that I'm serious.  It should go without saying that I'm willing to do anything to make this work, I just need to make sure that that 'anything' is not something that will push her further away.

How long am I supposed to wait?

In the meantime, is it alright to occasionally send her a simple message such as a status/life update?  There is a lot of stuff going on on my end that I don't want her to feel left out of.

When this episode does end, is she going to be back to her baseline right away or will I be treading on thin ice for a while before its ok to broach the more serious topics again?  Is it ok to ask if she's seeking therapy?  I would like her to know that I'm comfortable with the fact that she has BPD while also taking the situation seriously.  If I can't handle her at her worst, I don't deserve her at her best.

Ideally I want to end the long-distance part of this relationship ASAP and transfer out there, but I don't know how to bring it up delicately or even when for that matter, my aspergers basically renders me useless when it comes to reading a room.  I didn't even realized she liked me all this time until I recently seriously sat back and thought about the way she acted over the past several months, always sitting next to me in meetings among other things.

When she does open communication with me again would it be ok to ask her to talk on the phone?  Communicating exclusively via text lacks any form of tone and tense and that goes triple on my end because again, aspergers.

Playing the waiting game honestly makes me feel really dirty, like its some kind of stupid game and I'm being tested, even knowing she isn't doing it on purpose its still very difficult for me.  I'm not one of those people that can easily shift focus and 'work on myself' when something like this happens.  I've always had inverse priorities when it comes to relationships compared to most people and its something that I've accepted and embraced.  Unlike most, who will have life goals and build upon them, meeting or searching for someone who can fit into that life on the way, I am focused on finding the person who completes me first, after that I can worry about building a life for us, together with her.

[paperinkart]

I am so humbled by your feelings for this woman. It sounds like you are very in tune with your emotions and your heart is in the right place.

She is going through a lot of changes, and so are you. Even if she didn’t have BPD, this would be a lot to handle for anyone. I don’t want to put words in her mouth, but if it were me, I would be feeling very cautious over someone who ended a long-term engagement after a night with me. I would hate to wonder if I’m just a “rebound”. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening, but again, she is still in a huge transition in her life and so are you.

I agree with the person above that it might be best to take some space and give her that space as well. I understand it feels like a childish game (trust me, I feel that constantly) but it is more about respecting the persons need/desire for space.

I really would let her come to you. Unfortunately, it’s hard to say how long the wait will last. I would avoid asking about therapy, mentioning BPD, or letting her know you’re willing to move. It’s so sweet of you to be concerned and ready to help her with these things, but you can dive into that stuff later- once the relationship is on a more solid ground. Sometimes the harder we push these things, the faster and more severely the other person feels like running (I speak from a lot of experience as the “pusher” here!)

I would maybe just send a message that says “I completely understand if you need some space and some time to settle in. I’m happy to talk when you’re ready!” But that’s all I would say right now.

Sorry if this isn’t what you were hoping to here. Nobody knows your heart and your relationship better than you so take what feels “right” when it comes to advice. Best of luck!

[once removed]

In the meantime, is it alright to occasionally send her a simple message such as a status/life update?  There is a lot of stuff going on on my end that I don't want her to feel left out of.

put yourself in her shoes.

if i asked someone for space, im taking that space on my terms. if i received updates, it would make me feel that my request wasnt respected. id feel backed in a corner.

When this episode does end, is she going to be back to her baseline right away or will I be treading on thin ice for a while before its ok to broach the more serious topics again?  Is it ok to ask if she's seeking therapy?  I would like her to know that I'm comfortable with the fact that she has BPD while also taking the situation seriously.  If I can't handle her at her worst, I don't deserve her at her best.

AnAwkwardGeek, i wouldnt look at this as an episode, but a reflection of a tumultuous relationship, standing on shaky ground. in other words, i wouldnt look at this as a momentary lapse that shes going to "snap out of", but a sign of things that have been on her mind for a long time. i think paperinkart gave you keen insight there on some of the things your partner may be thinking about, going through.

Playing the waiting game honestly makes me feel really dirty, like its some kind of stupid game and I'm being tested, even knowing she isn't doing it on purpose its still very difficult for me.  I'm not one of those people that can easily shift focus and 'work on myself' when something like this happens.  I've always had inverse priorities

i would encourage you to be open minded about this. when i got into my relationship, there were a lot of things that were ingrained in me, long established habits and thought patterns, that led to turmoil in my relationship. for example, i was the king of over pursuing and wearing my heart on my sleeve. unlearning those things, shifting my attitude, and learning new skills changed my life. i came here after my relationship was over, and too late to save. youre not necessarily in that position.

60% of relationships (of all kinds) reconcile, for one reason or another. you want to give this the best shot you can.

[AnAwkwardGeek]

I can't believe I only posted this 5 days ago.  It feels like its been a month since I made it.

I sent the message that paperinkart recommended.  I'm going to do my best to not message her again unless she messages me.

This silence is... I don't even have words to describe what this is doing to my psyche.  I don't want to become bitter, or begin begin taking this whirlwind of negative emotions I'm experiencing due to this situation and associating them directly with her.

I have to set myself a timetable, taking it "one day at a time" is only slowing down my perception of time.  I've been picking up overtime shifts to stay away from home (Still in co-habitation with the ex-fiancee).  I've taken advantage of the misery and am eating healthier since giving up the PLEASE READty food I love can't make me feel much worse at this point. 

If they country ends up opening back up soon and the quarantine/social distancing ends, I'm going to have to give her a set amount of time after that before I attempt to move on or put in for that transfer... for my own sanity... even just typing that makes me feel horrible though.  I don't want to give up on her reaching out.. its so defeatist.  Being around her made work bearable long before I even realized my romantic feelings for her.  Our first day as a couple was the best day of my life.  That's worth something isn't it?  I'm suffering right now though.  There has to be a limit to how much suffering is worth it.

I miss her.  The few dreams I remember after waking up all have her in them.  I'm terrified not knowing if she's ok.  She has those self-destructive tendencies.

[paperinkart]

I can't believe I only posted this 5 days ago.  It feels like its been a month since I made it.

I sent the message that paperinkart recommended.  I'm going to do my best to not message her again unless she messages me.

This silence is... I don't even have words to describe what this is doing to my psyche.  I don't want to become bitter, or begin begin taking this whirlwind of negative emotions I'm experiencing due to this situation and associating them directly with her.

I have to set myself a timetable, taking it "one day at a time" is only slowing down my perception of time.  I've been picking up overtime shifts to stay away from home (Still in co-habitation with the ex-fiancee).  I've taken advantage of the misery and am eating healthier since giving up the PLEASE READty food I love can't make me feel much worse at this point. 

If they country ends up opening back up soon and the quarantine/social distancing ends, I'm going to have to give her a set amount of time after that before I attempt to move on or put in for that transfer... for my own sanity... even just typing that makes me feel horrible though.  I don't want to give up on her reaching out.. its so defeatist.  Being around her made work bearable long before I even realized my romantic feelings for her.  Our first day as a couple was the best day of my life.  That's worth something isn't it?  I'm suffering right now though.  There has to be a limit to how much suffering is worth it.

I miss her.  The few dreams I remember after waking up all have her in them.  I'm terrified not knowing if she's ok.  She has those self-destructive tendencies.

I hear you, I really do!

Being left alone in silence, especially without answers to your questions is enough to drive a person crazy. I applaud you for maintaining distance even though it’s tough.

It is easy to harbour a lot of negativity and animosity for all the pain “they” are causing you. Please try to dig very deep for as much compassion as you can. As much as you are hurting right now, the other person must also be hurting an incredible amount to be acting this way. People with BPD operate at a much higher emotional baseline than most people. Imagine feeling SO many things all at once, all the time, and not having the skills to cope with it in a healthy way. If you can, try to separate the person from the BPD. The person you love is not wanting to hurt you, but the BPD is out to get you 

My best advice to you right now might seem cliche but I think it’s necessary: take it one day at a time.

If it still hurts/caused anxiety to think of a “deadline”, then don’t even entertain the idea yet. If a pwBPD decides to make contact, it can sometimes take weeks or months. You can still find things to enjoy in life during this waiting period, and you can still be hopeful for a reunion without waiting for the phone to ring.

You need to focus on yourself as much as possible (I’m sorry, I hate when people tell me that haha but it does have some truth). You still have another relationship to dismantle and I’m sure some leftover emotions from that that will need processing. Taking time to make sure you’re in a great and stable headspace is the absolute best thing you can do- not only for yourself but for this new relationship. If you love this person as much as you say you do, then you should use this time and distance to become the best version of yourself that you can.

It is so scary and painful to accept the distance. Whenever this used to happen in my relationship, I would completely panic. I would call dozens of times. I would leave tearful voicemails. I would show up at the door unexpectedly. Honestly, it was embarrassing and all it did was push him further and further away. As soon as I realized that it was BPD and not entirely his fault, I was able to finally relax and give him the space to breath calmly. I gently let him know it was okay to take space and that I wasn’t going to be mad at him when he wanted to come back. And guess what? That made him feel safe enough and he came back faster than ever.

We can’t say for sure what is going to happen but I hope you can find some peace in this period of uncertainty.

Good luck!

[once removed]

I can't believe I only posted this 5 days ago.  It feels like its been a month since I made it.

if it helps...

my breakup was one of the top two hardest things i have ever been through in my entire life. it made me more resilient, and given that, in some sense, it may always be one of the hardest. today, over nine years ago, its ancient history.

whatever happens, things really do get better.

i was an emotional basket case for some months. i very much remember what it feels like when its raw, and being in the day to day. youre trying to survive and get through the day, and yet, with the anxiety of it all, it feels like another day means lost time and a worse outcome. this isnt true, and in actuality, you have all the time in the world (you really do. youre more in control than it might feel like right now), but i know the feeling.

if you sent the message that paperinkart recommended, it was a good, strong move. when i was going through it, i had every inclination to say or do things i might still be regretting to this day. trust in it.

[Frannie Fay]

Hi AnAwkwardGeek,

I'm sorry you're going through this. I have so much empathy for you because I suffer the silent treatment with a man who lives with me. In fact, it's going on right now. It hurts, it drives you crazy, it makes you doubt yourself, it causes resentment. If she needed space, she SHOULD have told you, not left you hanging. It's so unfair. I can't stand excuses when it comes to the silent treatment. It takes a person maybe a minute tops to type "My life is hectic right now, I need some space, but I'll be in contact." and "send". In the case of my husband, it would take him a minute to say kindly "I am very moody and angry, I need some time alone so I can work it out." and hug me. But these people CHOOSE to leave us hanging and it's distressing. If someone asks for space from me in a nice way, I'm not going to chase them and bother them. I feel bad for you that your new lady is ignoring you, especially having lead you on like that.

I think the advice given to you is all good. At this point, don't contact her. Wait to see if she will contact you. My question to you is how long are you willing to wait? You must feel heart-broken.

Frannie

[AnAwkwardGeek]

My question to you is how long are you willing to wait?

Honestly, I don't know.  At the very least a week or two after this Covid19 fiasco settles down and the country opens back up.

She never even gave me her new address.

Right now my biggest issue is the logic half of my brain battling my heart.  I know I love her oh so very much, despite all of the red flags and I want need to see her again no matter what, even if it ends up being merely to get closure.  Couple that with the fact that my ex-fiancee who I still live with in quarantine, has become convinced that we are going to get back together.  I keep telling her that she deserves better, that even if I did want to go back, she shouldn't take me back just because my attempt to leave her to be with someone else failed.

Its such a complete mess right now and yes, I am feeling very heart-broken.  I just hope she opens up contact again before the inevitable bitterness/numbness sets in.

[AnAwkwardGeek]

Hitting the end of 3 weeks no contact now.  I've not sent any messages or attempted to call since the "i'm here when you're ready" message.

I've been reading many of the similar posts on these boards and my situation seems slightly but obviously different in a few details so I'm wondering if anyone here has any ideas.

She hasn't blocked my phone or facebook.  I can still see her posts, when she's online (which is extremely often)  etc..  the only weird part is that her friends list is empty, though I don't remember if that's a new thing.   I checked other peoples' pages and they are showing up fine so it's not a problem on my end.  She's either muted the chat or is making a strong conscious effort to simply not read the messages I sent.   The last one flagged 'read' was on the 27th of march, her last message to me, which seemed ordinary, was the previous day.

She never said anything negative to me or anything disparaging or even hinted that she didn't want us to be together. It was just the sudden silence that hasn't ended for awhile.
I also remember when we were together that she made it very clear she likes the man to take initiative in all things so I'm starting to have second thoughts of just waiting everything out.

How long is the appropriate time to wait before I should show that I have an amount of dignity and then I don't deserve to be treated like this?

I also still have no idea what would and wouldn't be appropriate to say to her once she does break out of this isolation of hers. I really want to know where she stands on everything but I don't want to drive her right back into isolation.

[once removed]

She hasn't blocked my phone or facebook.

its not a bad place to be, relatively speaking. a block is a really hard wall that someone puts up, temporarily, or permanently.

i wouldnt read into it beyond that, but it says shes not at a point of completely severing ties.

the only weird part is that her friends list is empty, though I don't remember if that's a new thing.

if im understanding you correctly, its a privacy feature. i have a number of friends where i cannot read their friends list. i have other friends where i can read mutual friends only.

I also remember when we were together that she made it very clear she likes the man to take initiative in all things so I'm starting to have second thoughts of just waiting everything out.

when i went through this, every bone in my body told me i needed to act. that i needed to say something. i convinced myself thats what she wanted. i convinced myself maybe this was a test. anxiety has a way of telling us that we need to act, except that probably more than 99% of the time, it makes things worse. ive been in situations where i said well the hell with it, ill force her hand, and at least ill know something. but i think you know how that will go. and it doesnt have to happen.

AnAwkwardGeek, if she is not even reading your messages, if she is not responding, this is not a test, this is not a sign that shes wanting you to take initiative. us men sometimes assume as much, but such a scenario simply doesnt happen. if she wanted you to pursue, she would give you those signals.

How long is the appropriate time to wait before I should show that I have an amount of dignity and then I don't deserve to be treated like this?

the question should really be: "how long is the appropriate amount of time before i decide this is over and decide to walk away".

there is nothing you can say or need to say, to her directly, that proves or reclaims your dignity.

the current scenario is silence. shes not judging your dignity. the only test of your dignity is that you dont throw your heart on the line or beg for her back. from a guy who has done that, many times, its a hard road to regaining your dignity.

this is about how much space you are willing to give her, and for how long, before you, on your own terms, decide its over and walk away.

the honest truth is that it could take a very long time; maybe not, but it could. it could take longer than you are willing to wait. and hearing from her, when and if you do, is no guarantee that shes open to reconciling the relationship.

the honest truth is that, as best you are able, i wouldnt wait, or count the days, or measure the silence. i probably wouldnt be in the space of committing to walk away, and you dont have to. but i would move forward in my life, as best i was able. because thats the space you want to be in, when and if she does reach out. where you have other things to focus on, and arent consumed by what she says. thats an attractive place to be.

[juju2]

Hi An.
So I agree 100% with what is being shared.

I have been in an awkward situation, suffice to say, all over the map, and what is in common with you, is the part about how do I reach out, when, and what.

I do not have experience with the distance or having a ex fiancee.

All I am sharing is from the separation and what, how, if anything do I reach out.

Ok.

So what finally happened, he became involved w someone else, ignored me.


 So I found some hobbies I actually enjoyed.!  It helped me by getting me out of my head, doing things I enjoyed, helping make me a more diverse life for me to enjoy. ( There was no relationship with him that was available to me.  At that time.)
My hobby
is/ was gardening.  I am growing flowers in my front yard, landscaping my yard.

So he drove by, saw all the colors, yard looking snappy.  That one change seemed to help in the way that he did start coming over and even said, your yard looks really nice!

Maybe you could post something you are doing on Facebook.  It wants to be something you are genuinely excited about.

That energy transmits over space and time, I believe.

I have to continually work on myself, develop and also reach out to others and share what good things, wisdom, has been shared with me.  Or simply listen to another human being unburden themself.  Be there for a friend.
I have to find gratitude.  Through being grateful, I can withstand what is going on.

[Frannie Fay]

I really hope this doesn't sound extremely negative...I think that her silence is a very loud message that she doesn't want to be with you. It's not right, in fact it's quite cowardly. But I really believe if a person wants to be with you, they wouldn't be giving you the silent treatment, despite the excuses of covid/moving etc. I'm sorry and I hope I'm wrong.

[paperinkart]

I really hope this doesn't sound extremely negative...I think that her silence is a very loud message that she doesn't want to be with you. It's not right, in fact it's quite cowardly. But I really believe if a person wants to be with you, they wouldn't be giving you the silent treatment, despite the excuses of covid/moving etc. I'm sorry and I hope I'm wrong.

I don’t want to be in a position of giving false hope, but let’s not make any presumptions about his situation if we aren’t directly involved. It may be the case that she doesn’t want to be with him but we can’t say for sure.

After a fight with my partner last April, I thought for sure we were over for good. He went completely silent for a month and I assumed it was the end. I began to move on and accept the loss of the relationship. A few days later, he was at my doorstep, full apology. It had taken him that long to regulate his emotions and understand how his actions were affecting me and our relationship. It took awhile to rebuild after that but we did.

I’m not here to say that for sure she will come back and to keep waiting, but also do not want to take away hope. The only thing any of us can do is wait and see. The waiting doesn’t have to be painful if we don’t want it to be, and we don’t need to reconcile if they make contact again. But just see what the future brings and deal with it then.

Best of luck, OP!

[AnAwkwardGeek]

Thank you all for the replies so far.  Its given me many things to consider.

I'm still just trying to take things one day at a time, not much has changed in that regard.

I'm still giving her a chance to message me, its been nearly a month at this point.  Things have taken a slight turn for the confusing though.
I discovered that basically from around the time she went silent, she created a new facebook page/group related to her new desire to twitch stream, to the point where she's even e-begging for a new computer to do it with.  That in itself isn't unusual considering her situation.  The part that stood out to me was the short video she posted a little over a week ago, basically a moving selfie that had the subtitle "no one is around to help".

Now I'm at the obvious crossroads.  Do I stay the course and let her reach out if she wants to, or do I assume I'm not reading too much into this and reach out to her.  This situation is confusing/stressful enough on its own, but this distance on top of it all just makes it maddening.  I'm at my wit's end.

[once removed]

a month is a long time.

i would not be looking at this as a situation where there is a likelihood that she will reach out and tell you she wants to reconcile the relationship, at this point.

im not telling you that that has to mean she wont reach out, or that you wont get back together.

ive been in similar circumstances a number of times. 100% of the time, the person ultimately reached out, though sometimes months down the road, and almost always in a light hearted, ambiguous way, sort of testing the waters.

and the biggest mistake that i usually made was to read too much into it, and over pursue.

i dont want to give you false hope either, but there is a human nature element to relationship endings like this. its uncomfortable. nobody likes it. there are reasons that motivate silence and distance, but they almost always come with a helping of guilt. and when youre the one that initiates that silence and distance, and the person youre giving it to heeds it, curiosity begins to take over. let it.

i want to stress that i think if you reach out, you will make the chances slimmer that she will ultimately reach out. it will telegraph neediness. it will push her away. youll regret it, and beat yourself up.

AAG, i would do my damndest to avoid looking at her social media for the foreseeable future. it will help you mentally and emotionally to keep all of this out of sight, out of mind, to get back to a place of relative normalcy, and to begin to get back to a centered place.

you are going to need that most of all when and if she does reach out, because it will throw you for a loop.

beyond that, theres a whole host of considerations here.

the first is that you may be avoiding grieving the loss of the relationship you were engaged in. dont.

the second is that if this person came back tomorrow, the problems in the relationship would be waiting for you and it would end in more pain than youre going through now. understand why it broke down. grieve the relationship youve had, really and truly, consider it over. consider any future relationship as a brand new relationship, with a very different game plan. work on that game plan.

I've never been good with women and because of that I have chronic self-esteem issues, I wouldn't say they are generally debilitating but I certainly have issues when it comes to courting women.
I've had 2 real relationships in my life

the third is to use this time to evaluate "where it all went wrong" and what is going to change going forward, and to begin to put it in practice, whether she comes back or not.

[juju2]

Hi

I am sad you are going thru this.

mentally it is very difficult.

so your fiancee, is she still in the picture.

are you still living together.
I ask because it's hard to start a new thing if I am still involved with my previous relationship.

And you are caught up in this new thing.
The more I can see my responsibility in something, the more I can grasp what is going on with me.

Sometimes it can be difficult to see what is going on with me, the only one I have any power over.  It's my thoughts and actions that will make the difference.

[juju2]

I don't know if this helps.

It's something I saw for myself.

What I currently have: living alone, wishing he is with me, x,y,z.  I do not like what I currently have.  I haven't accepted it.

Somewhere I read that I cannot have anything different until I fully accept what I do have. 
I am working on this also.  You are not alone.

[AnAwkwardGeek]

so your fiancee, is she still in the picture.

are you still living together.
I ask because it's hard to start a new thing if I am still involved with my previous relationship.

Yeah, besides errands and food (for simplicity's sake) we don't do much together anymore though.  We live in a duplex, I've been sleeping in the AirB&B down stairs.

And you are caught up in this new thing.
The more I can see my responsibility in something, the more I can grasp what is going on with me.

Sometimes it can be difficult to see what is going on with me, the only one I have any power over.  It's my thoughts and actions that will make the difference.

Surprisingly enough, I'm in the best position financially I've been in my life, comfortable savings account and I've even started small scale investing, and despite the pandemic I'm healthier than I've been in at least 5 years.  I'm in good enough standing where I could simply transfer locations, up and move away and be set back 2 weeks tops financially.  That's part of what makes it so tempting to just up and go.

[juju2]

I think if it's just this other relationship holding you back.

wether to move or not.

one way to get at this is, act as if.

Act as if you moved there.

Magic wand.  You live there.

What is life like.  Where are you living...like house, etc.  Do I like this.?what don't I like about it.?
what do I miss about my former living arrangement.?  What about missing my friends? what things do I miss that turn out to be irreplaceable. (Like for me to move, I can't replace my meetings--they are either on hold or zoom now, hopefully will be in person soon)
am I flexible to move there.
Will it be awkward living here and not knowing about what the relationship will hold.?

Can I take temporary assignment there.? Or vacation myself there.?

you can see if anything opens up.
Just by acting as if...

[AnAwkwardGeek]

Another two weeks and I'm still getting the silent treatment from her.

I got sick and took a couple weeks off of work so I haven't been really achieving too much lately.  There was a day or two where I started to feel really better towards her but that passed really quickly and I still want to forgive her for everything despite how horrible her actions (or lack thereof) have made me feel.

With all of that said I am hitting my limit, I know how to contact her semi anonymously so that I can get a response and basically catching her in the act that she just specifically doesn't want to talk to me and then I can call her out on how PLEASE READy what she has done is and get some closure.  I realize that this basically guarantees I'm not going to be able to get back with her, dating her for 2 days and being away for two months without any type of commitment from her end The Logical side of my brain is telling me that for the sake of my mental health I need to just end this. Simply blocking her is not an option I need the closure.  In my eyes, it's better for my heart to break than it would be to slowly die as it has been.

Thoughts?

[juju2]

Hi.

so you could find a simple reason to call.
either about work, the city she lives in, or just to say hi.  (think of something you saw that reminded you of her, etc . thought I would just call and say hello)
be light hearted, think of some funny things to share...
((seems like being in a relationship w someone w bpd traits, us nons have to be flexible.)
we have to be dependable and hang on loosely. lightly.

if she knows you live w a lady, she could very well have it that you aren't a serious prospect...no matter what you have told her...

It's just an idea.  being the man you have to pursue.  not over pursue, which you haven't been.

don't over think this.  just see what happens.  after you say hello, etc, just let her know you are waiting for car appt. you are getting your tires rotated--car washed----something--and just have a few minutes--before they call your name---something---this way it will be brief call.
really call from the car wash.or tire place.

[AnAwkwardGeek]

Hi.

so you could find a simple reason to call.
either about work, the city she lives in, or just to say hi.  (think of something you saw that reminded you of her, etc . thought I would just call and say hello)
be light hearted, think of some funny things to share...
((seems like being in a relationship w someone w bpd traits, us nons have to be flexible.)
we have to be dependable and hang on loosely. lightly.

if she knows you live w a lady, she could very well have it that you aren't a serious prospect...no matter what you have told her...

It's just an idea.  being the man you have to pursue.  not over pursue, which you haven't been.

don't over think this.  just see what happens.  after you say hello, etc, just let her know you are waiting for car appt. you are getting your tires rotated--car washed----something--and just have a few minutes--before they call your name---something---this way it will be brief call.
really call from the car wash.or tire place.

I've tried calling her about a dozen times throughout the month of March and she had not picked up her phone a single time.  Times where I know for certain she wasn't busy.  nor has she even giving me any reason to believe she listened to to a single voicemail that I sent her.
Before you ask no, she has not given me any explanation as to why she doesn't want to talk on the phone, she simply avoided the subject every single time I asked.

[once removed]

The Logical side of my brain is telling me that for the sake of my mental health I need to just end this. Simply blocking her is not an option I need the closure. 

you can "just end it". you have that power. you really do.

and it doesnt require contacting her and catching her or slagging her in order to do that.

oh, i realize how emotionally challenging it would be to do. because the emotional side of your brain might say "but she could still come back". but thats holding out hope, not ending it.

and now is really the time, more than ever, to do the emotionally challenging things.

if you slag her, youll regret it.

if you dont, a year from now, youll be really proud of yourself for holding your piece, and thats going to matter.

[AnAwkwardGeek]

I've tried ending things without closure three times in the past, once with a friend, once with a LDR and one with a girlfriend who was a grifter in disguise.   All 3 times it came to bite me in the ass years later.
I ended up getting closure in the end as a result, but at great cost each time.

[juju2]

Hi An

So after reading these last exchanges, you do have resolve.
That same resolve can be used toward what is being shared.
If I take back my power, if I go ahead and declare, this is my boundary.  I declare it is finished.  This chapter is finished.
that's all.  I get to say.  It's my life.

Sometimes another person will not or can not provide a soft landing, apology, reason, closure.  Sometimes it just isn't.

you can just try this on for size.  Give yourself the resolve.

[AnAwkwardGeek]

I called her today while on break, since work reminds me of her which is another factor that makes this especially difficult.  Left her a voicemail because of course she didn't pick up.  I doubt she'll even listen to it so the contents are irrelevant...

[AnAwkwardGeek]

She texted me early this morning while I was working, responding to a text about something mundane but wanted my opinion on something so its nice to feel useful.  Chatted back and fourth a bit for a good two hours before she faded out, probably fell asleep. 
Turns out she hasn't been to work in a month and a half, I know her location isn't closed down so she may have taken some form of leave, our company offered voluntary time off throughout April.  I'm going to try not to dwell on how much of a contributing factor I was, but its an interesting coincidence that she stopped going to work around the same time she went no-communication.

I know I shouldn't hold my breath, as she could easily slip back into a dark place, but I won't lie about how much just getting to chat with her about pointless crap has improved my emotional state with the snap of a finger.

On the off chance she doesn't go silent again tomorrow (later today, yay overnight work) unless she brings anything up, I'll try to feel things out for at least a week before I even consider broaching anything remotely serious.

[once removed]

All 3 times it came to bite me in the ass years later.

how so? what happened?

just getting to chat with her about pointless crap has improved my emotional state with the snap of a finger.

i can imagine.

On the off chance she doesn't go silent again tomorrow (later today, yay overnight work) unless she brings anything up, I'll try to feel things out for at least a week before I even consider broaching anything remotely serious.

AAG,

i cant tell you how many members i have worked with on this board who have not gotten this opportunity, but instead have had extreme actions or allegations taken/made against them.

i am not sure this is an attitude that is going to improve your situation or save the relationship.

to do that, you have to understand what went wrong, and what is going to change, and how. your trajectory depends far more upon that than having a next conversation or what its about.

to do that, you have to be in a place to do that...to sort through it all.

it was one week ago that you were planning to sneak attack her and let her have it.

it feels great that she responded. it feels great that you got to catch up. it would also feel great if she agreed to come back tomorrow. but if that happened, things would likely fall apart quickly.

think this through. develop a game plan.