My problem is I still love this person.

[juju2]

2017.  I asked him to leave, I wanted to live alone.  Healing separation. 
3 weeks later I went to him, I made a big mistake, please come back, let's work this out.
He said it's too late, you should have thought of this sooner.  I spent the remainder of that year wooing him, we went on 10 trips, at the end of that, we bought a brand new truck, his old truck was worn out.
I thought we had worked our problems out.
6 months later, mid 2018, he has a g/f he met from online, from another city 2 hours away, move in with him.  It's 2 years later.
(22 months later) April 2020.
He is miserable, he says they are broken up and she has no where to go, she just got laid off:  That was yesterday...
He says as soon as the virus gets taken care of and people get their jobs back, she will get her job back, she can get a transfer, go back to her family, in the other city.  Her work says they will hire everyone back...she will get the unemployment plus govt unemployment money...
And so we are meeting again tomorrow to talk about it some more.  I guess.
He wants to share with me.

I guess I am sharing frustration, fear, concern, with this site.
I know it's unlikely anyone has experience with what I am going thru so I guess all anyone can do is listen.
If anyone has experience with being separated in a long term relationship with BPD male.  That would help me.

My problem is I still love this person.
He says he loves me.

Today is a new day.

So after work, I am meeting him on neutral turf for coffee.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[juju2]

and what he shared yesterday with me is, we had a good relationship, him and I.  We had our faults, too.
What he is finding is the life we had together, he could work on his hobbies, which he really enjoys, he is an artist.  He didn't have to do regular 9 to 5 work.  What he sees now that he didn't appreciate then, was he had the freedom to do what he wanted with his time.

Now he has to work, earn money, pay bills.
He says he lives with someone who doesn't even know him. That is what he said.

He says he isn't comfortable in his own home, it's full of arguing...

I think he is really seeing what we had together and he and I both want to somehow get that back.

I just wanted to share this and also say he hasn't been this open with me in a long time.

Not since we stopped living together.

[Skip]

I guess I am sharing frustration, fear, concern, with this site.
I know it's unlikely anyone has experience with what I am going thru so I guess all anyone can do is listen. If anyone has experience with being separated in a long term relationship with BPD male.  That would help me.

My problem is I still love this person.

Many of us hung on much longer than others would prescribe... I know that the last year of my relationship couldn't stand on its own... I was there because of the first 2 years of our relationship. What you are going through is more common than you think.

We had a moderator here that was thrown out of the home he shared with his girlfriend by ex parte order, held on for 13 years while she dated someone else, and then got back with her.

We see these things here more than any other message board that is dealing with "break-ups". People with BPD can be intensely attractive with their deep emotions and expressiveness. They can be incredibly destabilizing with there impulsiveness and zigs and zags.

How do we navigate that? Can we navigate that?

I think the answer is yes. A big part of that is understanding the disease, understanding human nature, and having perspective on what is going on. All hard things to do when we are in the battle.

Let's try.

Just to be sure we are clear... can you correct this profile so we are all dealing with the same facts?

You started dating your BF 10 years ago.
The two of you moved in together __ years ago.
You asked him to leave  3 years ago, he did, you tried to undo that but couldn't.
He started living with another women 2 years ago.
You two have flirted with the idea of getting back together since the move out, but haven't taken an commitment steps.

Can you correct the paragraph above where it is wrong?

One last question. What is the nature of your relationship for the last twelve months? How many time have you been together?  How often do you communicate email/text/phone?  Are you two intimate?

[juju2]

responding to Skip.

Started dating in 2007.  13 years ago.
Classic bpd, love bombing...i saw flags, only in hindsight did I know it was RED flags.

Like that oft quoted:  life is lived forward, understood backward."

and I knew about, in a general way, bpd.

And now responding to FF:
it's a struggle.

Words/actions do not match.

Let me try and unpack this.

So when I met him, 2007, I was problem gambler, and untreated co dependent.
I had no relation to integrity.
Integrity to me means, my word is my bond.
No relationship to that whatsoever.  Hence no surprise, my r/s had none.

Now, 2020, I have 3 years in April  in recovery for gambling and 2 1/2 years in al anon, in increasing responsible role, completed working the 12 steps, and more.

So only received fairly recently an introduction to integrity...

My understanding now is integrity pertains to my behavior, thought, actions.

And now I can notice where others are out of integrity, and it is not my job to interfere with their path, their Higher Power's work with them.
The best place, to put my focus, is on what is important to me and my life.
That is the only thing I have control over, with my HP help.

[juju2]

Skip:  we moved in quickly, he was always at my place, from about one month in. 2007.
We formally moved in together, our place, in 2008.

[Skip]

You didn't say if you were intimate? Is that part of the post relationship? It's important to know.

Congratulations on your self-work. I remember when you were starting on that path.

As you have said, there are a lot of moving parts and you certainly have some role in the relationship problems as they are.

The one thing that stands out to me is apparent conflict in his words vs actions. I'd ask you to help us understand how much of that is him vs your reading of the situation.

On its surface, you kicked him out. That was big. You apologized and asked him back - he didn't come back. That was big.  He then moved another women in his house. That was huge.  You and he have agreed to be in a secondary or orbiter relationship to his primary relationship. That is big.

Does this describe it well (at 35,000 ft)?

As I indicated earlier, one of our past moderators did this for 13 years - and then they reconnected.

It would seem to me there are a couple of things to contemplate.

1. It's important to not minimize that he is in another relationship. Whatever frustration they have, however unstable they are, they are living together. He could end it. You could be #1 in his life today. You are #2.

2. Even though he was in a live in relationship with this new girl he maintained a secondary or orbiter relationship with another women. You mentioned integrity. There is a significant breach of integrity. When you commit to live with someone, there should  be plan B in the wings.

3. Why do people have Plan B relationships? Are the evil people? The answer with BPD is often that they are so afraid of the depths they may fall into if they are rejected, that they protect themselves by having a fall back. It's important recognize that being someones fallback is not love - it's insurance. It's also important to know that if someone needs insurance, they will continue to need it. The more in love they are, the , more important the insurance.

4. Listing "not needing to work" as a something you miss in a relationship is very honest, but should be seen for what it is.

So if what you have said and my read on it is plausible - it's important to factor this painful truths in your decision making.  I'm not suggesting walking away. I am suggesting that you are in a card game and its important to accept the 5 cards in you hand are not winners and they are not ACEs.

What is the best way to plat the cards you have to achieve the goal you are hoping to achive? And how will you know when its time to fold?

[juju2]

Hi Skip.

I am not clear about a lot of things.

Also if I don't answer something, it's something I am not sharing.
So it can be asked one or two times and it may not be shared.

  One time is usually enough to ask and if someone doesn't answer, any more asking in my world is intrusive.

The conclusions you are drawing are obvious.  Not necessarily true.  Again I don't know a lot.  I have had to be ok with Not knowing a lot.

None of this is lost on me.

While I appreciate concern and good hearted sharing, I did not agree to be an open book.

I share what I can. 

Integrity is not a blanket. For me.

I have found integrity is found in layers, after quiet soul searching, listening, being able to hear from my Higher Power.

Another thing is I am not the judge of anyone's choices, lifestyle, and all etc.

This is difficult and evolving.

I can only live my path, each day looking to my faith.  And each day looking what could I have done better.  In such a way I find peace, hope, and strength.

This is a conscious way of being for me.  It's not easy.

My program teaches to share openly with my Higher Power, all my concerns, issues, hopes, dreams.
And I have one or two people I trust to share all matters, in confidence.

[juju2]

appreciate the feedback.

[juju2]

and so it is difficult for me to want to share a lot and I get it then there goes the possible support.

A lot of the last 2 plus years has been horrible and I can only hope that part is over...

[juju2]

so coffee place closed. 
It didn't go that well.
We went to our house that we lived in.
After about 15 minutes, he asked if could look for a tool he left at our house, we spent 45 minutes looking, couldn't find.

I had it in my mind, he just asked to come over to find that tool and so it didn't go very well...
He was getting frustrated, why am I concerned about x,y,z.

He didn't see that I just found out yesterday everything is on hold.
He didn't get that and was trying to make me me wrong.

I jaded.  Not good.

Didn't go over.  He would wince and you could see in his face anger.

I did ask, so I just got the info yesterday that she isn't buying a house, isn't moving until a. Virus leaves. b. New job transfer.

I said it is a big letdown.  Do you see what I should have as an expectation.


He said you dont listen, it's hard for me.  I am the one who has to live there.
He said it's horrible.  He said I never smile when I am at home.  That's why i am asking her to leave.  She has to leave. She knows it.
He said he has to do the right thing, it has to be when the virus is over before she leaves, it won't be safe before that.



I guess getting a complete and clear answer is hard when he doesn't want to share.  He may be a low communicator.
I know he is in a bad way.  His face said it.
Anyway, he is consumed by making a living.  2nd day no work, no money coming in.  He has bids out and people are cautious with their cash.

A friend of his called, he did ask me,  do I mind if he gets the call.  That was nice.  I said go ahead.
That was his best friend.  He knows me.  Before he would say hi or something...
Like back when we were together.

This time nothing, he didn't mention my name.  I am probably painted black...
He best friend works at a place where he was exposed to covid, and his work isn't doing anything.  So my b/f is worried about him, asked around and found a mutual friend w air BnB he can use.
Then they talked some more, he said i love you guys.  Let's talk later.  Bye.

Oh well.  It's days like this I wonder why am I even trying.  I am painted black.

So the stuff he left and him trying to find something is a stressor.  I feel like I am blamed because it isn't neatly marked where everything is.  I don't go thru anything.  It's a disheveled mess.

When he is low, bad spirits, all that off loads onto me and it's not good.  It ends up being somehow I caused all this.

I am just venting.  No one can fix this.

He did ask if we can see each other on Monday.
He did also say it concerns him when I get on a texting binge.  He did say I have gotten a lot better.  He said us hurts him to see me upset.
And he said that he knows it is hard.

One thing I texted is "my son in law had a heart to heart with me and said he thinks this guy(him) is stringing me along..."
So that came up. 
That was wrong on my part and why I can't text him...

He said it would be a lot different if I was stringing you along.  Angry tones, unhappy.

Anyway the whole hour and a half was 90% messed up.

I have to be upbeat, happy, in good spirits,

He doesn't see that it's his choices making a bad experience for himself.

There is nothing for me to do.
I am painted black, his life is messed up.

I am chalking it up to an overall crappy meet up.  I should learn to say nothing.

[babyducks]

I think he is really seeing what we had together and he and I both want to somehow get that back.

what I am thinking as I read this, is that if he and you both want to somehow get that back...  it's not going to be linear.    it's not got to be a simple or smooth process to get that back.     there will be challenges to overcome.    and for every one step forward there will be a step backwards...   

so coffee place closed. 
It didn't go that well.

it sounds like this was disappointing, that you were hoping for something better.

He didn't see that I just found out yesterday everything is on hold.
He didn't get that and was trying to make me me wrong.

I jaded.  Not good.

Didn't go over.  He would wince and you could see in his face anger.

I did ask, so I just got the info yesterday that she isn't buying a house, isn't moving until a. Virus leaves. b. New job transfer.

I said it is a big letdown.  Do you see what I should have as an expectation.

He said you dont listen, it's hard for me.  I am the one who has to live there.
He said it's horrible.  He said I never smile when I am at home.  That's why i am asking her to leave.  She has to leave. She knows it.

sounds like you were both talking passed each other.    you wanted him to understand and appreciate that you were hoping for something different.   he wanted you to understand how difficult he finds things.

it's hard to communicate.    especially about loaded emotional topics.  he might indeed be a low communicator... which means you will have to work even harder at communication to that both your messages can be safely expressed and heard.

you didn't mention it so I am wondering,  did you try any validation during this conversation?

'ducks

[juju2]

Hi ducks

No i did not try validation.

I have been reading up on the tools and thank you for reminding me of this.

I agree with you it isn't going linear.

I think for Mondays meet up I am just going to focus on being present.

Not ask any questions and maybe work on myself some more.

I did just get a new temporary sponsor in my program and so I am doing good from that standpoint.  My sponsor has been gone.  I didn't have a sponsor for over 6 months which is horrible in 12 step.

[babyducks]

No i did not try validation.

I understand.    Validation isn't always possible.   and it doesn't always work.    I found that keeping a highly validating environment was helpful.    daily small doses of validation helped relax both of us.     

it's profound how much we have to accept how much we are not in control.   that's so difficult to do.

how are you feeling today?

'ducks

[juju2]

Hi ducks.

Thank you for reaching out.
Doing better today.

Getting perspective.

Appreciate what you share and am going to incorporate validation. 

[babyducks]

Getting perspective.

it sounds like you have put a lot into this relationship.    i can relate to that because I certainly put a lot into my relationship.     I really wanted things to work.    and I still care for my Ex.      those deep feelings of love don't go away.

for me getting perspective took a long time.   it was deep emotional work.    I could be 100% responsible for my 50% of the relationship.    and that was all I could do.    the amount of influence or impact I had on what she did (or didn't do) in the relationship was quite small.

I read in the other thread that you have a new sponsor, that's good.     good for you for continuing to reach out.     I hope your sponsor has some familiarity with mental illness?      these are pretty unique relationship we find ourselves in.

'ducks

[juju2]

Hi Ducks. 
agree with everything you shared with me.

My sponsor does have experience with mental illness.  From what she has shared with me about her husband, I think he may have bpd, npd, or definitely traits.  She is dealing with this and successfully.  Before the virus closed our meetings, she would go to 5 meetings a week.  So she has solid program and experience that I can benefit from.

Thank you for asking.

[babyducks]

hi juju2

I'm glad your sponsor has the experience you find helpful.   I am also glad to read that you understand that gaining perspective is deep emotional work.   

when I first came here,   years ago now,  I was in a crisis.    My emotions were very raw.   I was hurt and hurting.    I can't tell you the number of times I read something in a post, that literally made me recoil back from the computer screen.    This deep emotional work can be painful.    It's hard to look at things from new and unpleasant angles.

for a long time there was a post pinned to the top of board that I hated.   the one about emotional immaturity, how people tend to seek out partners who are at the same level of emotional maturity as they are.    Oooh how I hated that post.   I felt like it was directed at me personally and it was calling me names.    that's not true of course.   but boy it felt that way.    strangely now when that post shows up,... it doesn't bother me anymore.    I figured it out.

how are you today?

'ducks

[hope2727]

Of course you still love this person. Many of us do still love our pwBPD. I know I can't just "unlove" someone.

The real questions are do you like them? Do you like the person you see? Do you like their behaviours, habits, ways of coping? Do you like his core values? Do you like how you feel around them? Not just the highs but the lows too? If this was a new person in your life that treated you this way would you like the treatment? If you didn't love them yet would you like the relationship as it is? Would you like it and them enough to continue until the love developed? And is the person you love only the good part or do you love the bad parts of him too? And is the person you love the genuine him or the face he puts on to preform for you? A mask he wears to get his needs met. And does he meet your needs? Do you feel recognized, respected, cherished, valued, safe, satisfied? These are all components important to a sustainable relationship.

You see I love my ex dearly. I do not however like him. I love the person he tried to be...pretended to be. I love the good parts of him. In reality I even love his bad parts. I just don't like him. I love all his curves and all his edges as the song says. I just don't like his behaviour, his choices, his way of coping, his core values, his ways of treating others, his attitudes toward the world, his habits. Those I don't like at all. Still love him. Love him to the bottom of my soul. But like him nope.

So I had to choose to set him free to his own divine destiny whatever that may be. It is hard. I have to review it regularly. "I love you, I don't hate you, I just don't like you. So go in peace but do go."

Its been 5 years and I am far less close to the raw freshness of your experience so I get how gut wrenching it is. I remember how defensive I was. How I though I could make things work between us. I can do anything. I can run a marathon, build a barn, or splice DNA so surely I could do this. Nope. It was not possible.

So I let him go. It was hard. Really really hard. But I did it and now I am happy and living a lovely life. He is on his path and I am on mine. But yes I still love him. And that is ok too. 

So in the end the question isn't if we still love them but if we still like them.

Good luck on your path.

[Carguy]

That reply really made me think about my own situation Hope!

How are you doing today Juju?

[juju2]

So.

I did text and state "am not available for this.

if you ever find yourself single, I wish you will contact me."

short.

That was yesterday.

The day before that I found out am furloughed for 2 weeks, my job is my salvation around being occupied.
And yesterday, also, found out a friend from a long time ago perished from covid.
My age, general good health.  He was doing good one day, then within a few days- I.c.u. and then gone.

All these things informed my actions around.

My new sponsor helped with her experience.

Her daughter has many relationships, some better, most not.  She tries to tell her daughter, if it isn't working for you, do not spend time on that.

Spend time meeting new people and finding things that DO work for you.

to have the benefit of clear thinking.

Thank you everyone, be careful out there.

[juju2]

So when he left, 2017, he left 90% of his things.

Leathers, signed original art, tools.  To name a few things.  Things he has saved his whole life.

Off and on I have said what do you want me to do with ...?

crickets.

so in my world I want to reach resolution.

It freaking is not going to happen.!

For me this is a gosh darn coan. I cannot get my head around.

I live with the consequences.

I swear, it all comes down to who am I going to be in any situation.

I hate it.

I want to set all the stuff on fire.

People have said, put it in storage.

I don't have the money.  Especially since I just got furloughed.

I do not want to spend money that way

I know I am complaining, there are solutions and maybe I should just go for whatever...

I guess it's one of these things that cannot be answered.

I want to be able to resolve anything in my life.  I want to know that what I did agrees with my core values.

I guess I would like to hear about things people ended up doing in spite of their core values...

At what point do you say F##k it.

I don't care that this is 20,000 dollars worth of stuff.  They don't care about it.  So therefore, it's okay for me to trash it.

Maybe tomorrow I can take candy from a baby and feel okay about it.

[juju2]

Hi Car
Thank you.  Thank you everyone who has responded.
It's been a long couple of days.

Now that am on furlough, it's a bit different.
 don't have a routine and work gave that and also helped with getting positive reinforcement.

I feel like being in this situation is a morale killer.

I call my sponsor tomorrow and I have this site.  So I just need to keep going.

[babyducks]

I'm sorry you got furloughed juju2.   that's hard.   

 I'm very sorry you lost some one to the covid19.     It's painful when it hits so close to home.

how do you feel about the text you sent?   

'ducks

[juju2]

Thank you ducks.

I feel ok about the text.

I guess I don't know about me.

my sponsor said it.  She just said it's not working for you. 


no drama.  No extra words.

I knew that.  It just sucks.

I had held on to tiny threads and my life had become about tiny threads.

[juju2]

I guess my sponsor said it directly.

She also said you have a problem with commitments:

You can't keep your commitments.

So how in the world do I keep my commitment to myself and just get out of my own way.

I truly do not know.

[juju2]

I mean I have things I can do and have accomplishments.

Job, solid history for 45 years, since I was a teen.  I did take 4 years off from 2007-2011.  My kids were acting up, and I made money in the stock market and lived off of that...i could be present for my kids and hopefully set them on the right track.  They are.

Other than work, my marriage, didn't keep that commitment.  Got divorced.

I mean divorce is common.  Unfortunately.

I know what my sponsor was saying, she has heard the day to day.  She has heard me say I am done.
And then she hears I am not done.

Scrambled eggs.

[babyducks]

Hope2727 made a nice post.    

For me, the one that rang all sorts of bells was when Skip said:

... I know that the last year of my relationship couldn't stand on its own...

I knew my relationship couldn't stand on its own.    It couldn't support itself.   There was no way to add support that kept the relationship functioning.   There were threads that were good.    but those threads did not, by themselves, sustain a healthy relationship that met any of our needs.

It was important to be honest to myself about that.    it was painful to be honest about that.    I had a lot invested emotionally in holding on to the good threads.   I still miss them.     Still the relationship could not sustain itself.     There was no possible way to have a meaningful working relationship.

'ducks

[babyducks]

She also said you have a problem with commitments:

You can't keep your commitments.

could your sponsor have meant your commitments to protect and take care of yourself?

[juju2]

Thank you ducks.

I didn't ask her more about what she meant.
Tomorrow I will.

She has seen me every week and so she knows what I have gone thru.

I have seen her, and I know she has gone thru a journey around her marriage

It hasn't been happily ever after.  From what she shares he has some kind of pd.
And it's not for me to say.  I am just noticing she has the same kind of problems I have.

It's not a coincidence that certain people are in my life.  And vice versa.

[Skip]

I don't care that this is 20,000 dollars worth of stuff.  They don't care about it.  So therefore, it's okay for me to trash it.

I think it would be counter productive to your hopes to trash it.

What part bothers you? Is it taking up space? Is it an uncomfortable memory?  Do you feel used?

I ask because there are different ways to deal with it based on what the issue is.