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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: Climb Every Mountain  (Read 583 times)
Roseglow

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: mother
Posts: 13


« on: June 22, 2020, 06:57:08 PM »

Relative newbie here. Found "my tribe among the wonderful individuals on this safe shoulder to land."

Wondering, after searching may webinars, read books etc. and I think I am starting to understand ( emphasis on "starting") a little more about my 30 yr old d emotional outbursts. ... how a parent comes eventually to a sense of "peace" about the situation.

When you know you have done everything you possible could for her as a child, and supported her in her young adulthood, but she still keeps raging and being completely uber sensitive about any minor thing.  I haven't broached the subject that she may be BPD as many on this site don't recommend a family member suggesting this. Just wondering after climbing so many mountains, how she will ever get to know this is her problem. Her doctors have failed her. All the stats show that when they hear the diagnosis, some bpd feel relieved... and if willing to do the work for DBT etc. start to make sense of their world and begin improving.

In the meantime, how do other parents get through the day without this humongous sense of guilt on how, even genetically, we played a part in the suffering they are experiencing today. A parent never wants to see their child suffer and this eats me up.
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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
squirrel20

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Estranged
Posts: 17


« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2020, 01:15:55 PM »

Hello,

Our 27 year old daughter has had similar issues for years.

We have recently realized that she does fit the diagnosis of BPD and as her parents we did seek out a therapist for ourselves to help coach us on dealing with her. She hasn’t been in our home for 2 years after some major episodes and poor life choices all related to her BPD. She remains undiagnosed herself as far as we know. She is coming to visit and talk in the next couple of weeks.

Our therapist specializes in treating patients with BPD. We had to read I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me. Chapter 5 discusses the SET method to communicate with a BPD.

We were also told that you do not tell them they are BPD and that sadly this is who she is and it won’t change. However, by us having the correct tools in our toolbox, we can prepare ourselves to handle the issues.

The SET method really needs to be practiced because it involves removing the circular conversations that we usually have with a BPD. BUT-it also does what you seem to be asking for...it puts the ball back in their court. It is not an emotional conversation and controls any chance of escalation, which for us happens with our daughter.

I think it is frustrating because the therapist did say that basically this is who she is, we can’t tell her, and we can’t change how she behaves or the awful choices she makes. We don’t want to see our kids suffer, but I would also encourage you not to blame yourself or worry about it origins. The important thing is to maintain peace and as our therapist stressed to us: self-preservation. You must take care of yourself...first.

I was under the impression that as parents we needed to be guiding her and advising her on all her crazy (and sometimes dangerous) choices. Surprisingly, the therapist said no. She’s an adult. It is her choice.

If you have not, I would seek out a BPD specialist for you to speak to. As her parents, we received lots of valuable information.

 Not sure if this helps, but it’s what we finally did after 10 long years of just incredible, ridiculous issues now known to be caused by BPD.

Best wishes.
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Roseglow

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: mother
Posts: 13


« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2020, 04:47:54 PM »

Your reply squirrel 20 was so appreciated! In some way, I feel like we've been to the "beach' with some of the things we have had to go through!

 I do have the book you suggested and will make it a point to read Chpt 5 again.  I also have purchased Marsha Lineham's books on DBT hoping that if I educate myself, I will understand more.
There's something, in my mind which is missing the point when you have a child over 18 ie  an "adult" , but which the family is not privy to any connections with their doctors, psychiatrists etc.  Since we are supposed to be part of the solution, in all the support we are supposed to offer, but we are not invited into the discussions on their health, treatment, etc.  Research shows that when the parents are "let in" the child, adult or otherwise, fares so much better. This legal statute does not help anybody when there is a mental condition.  It is made even worse by the few resources afforded to BPD sufferers or families.  We live in Canada and schizophrenia gets so much more in terms of programs for clients and families.Also, being a nurse myself, there are Doctors, then there are doctors. In other words, there are some good doctors, but even those who aren't trained in  BPD would have a hard time recognizing it. The patient doesn't get treated. A couple of psychiatrists I know professionally don't like having BPD as their patients as they "are so difficult." Some will only take one on their patient roster as it is too taxing, even for the professionals.
I am really going to concentrate on the Validation Piece.  I thought I was doing this already, but I think I have to fine tune my approach.  It is so difficult to validate someone that is so escalated emotionally as, in my daughters case, I don't think she even hears what we are saying, even if it is just "Oh Wow, that's hard. She just continues to rage and yell and cry. There are long periods ( we are in one right now) where we don't hear from her for months. With Covid around, and her only working part time, I worry every day.
And yet, our challenge is to, "Radically Accept..." This is a biggie. I know life would get better if my daughter could just figure this out.   How are you on the Radically Accept Meter?
ps Thanks so much again for your help!
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squirrel20

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Estranged
Posts: 17


« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2020, 10:52:14 AM »

Yes! Our doctor keeps restating that she is an “adult”.

I’m not quite completely sold on the radically accept and validate concept yet. Saying they “cannot help” what they do and that they “don’t mean to”...maybe, but we also deal with a fairly intelligent child. I think she knows how to get her attention and likes the poor me sometimes.

We are in California and patient privacy is the law. And BPDs are also the least desired patient. Very difficult and somewhat of a liability as they love to complain they aren’t being cared for well enough.

I am frustrated by some of things we were told by our doctor, which I believe fall under the radically accept:

-we cannot tell her we believe she has BPD or suggest she seek treatment
-we are supposed to over look her bad choices and not advise (had an affair on BRAND NEW husband within 10 weeks of a $20k wedding, lies, pits us against the family, multiple wreckless driving charges, and that’s just the last year) The doctor says she’s an adult! (Parents should be able to say “hey...bad choice”)
-We are encouraged to allow her to stay with us on this upcoming visit after a one year split from us over our “lack of support on her affair”. We really don’t know what’s coming at us
-we were told if she chooses to marry 5 times, go to the weddings, if she has a child out of wedlock- whatever. That’s a bit tough when we see the consequences of all that and do not support that, nor do we care to pick up the pieces every time

Basically, we aren’t supposed to worry or try and guess what her next issue will be. However, we know more is to come...there will always be escalation. We also receive updates trough the grapevine of stuff she’s up to. She hides so much from us. She lives in a neighboring state and will even travel to California without telling us and stay at a relatives house, which they also hide from us.

It seems that as parents of an adult BPD, we are to provide reassurance and support. This is difficult to grasp as our daughter has been very destructive within the family and we currently do not speak to my husband’s side of the family because they have bought into her stories and don’t see her issues.

I think if we could tell her our concerns, she would possibly be able to face it and get help. Our daughter is a psychiatric nurse practitioner (just graduated) and it scares me that she is treating psych patients when she isn’t super stable herself.

We have to practice the SET method many more times to be prepared. It will definitely make our conversations short when she brings up issues.

I’m curious, like you mentioned with your daughter, how angry she’s going to be to not hash out detail by detail. I think some of the message will be lost with her, she won’t hear it. At this point, we were told to restate it, then change the conversation. That’s gonna send our daughter into the “they never listen to me” space she loves to live in.

It does seem that they get to behave as they want. Not without consequences, but that it continues.

Have you set boundaries with your daughter in regards to the yelling and screaming. As in, “I am happy to speak with you, but if you yell, scream, or cry, I will have to leave/hang up/ask you to leave”? I expect ours to go this route when she visits. The yelling is a newer behavior for her. Hence, I don’t want her staying here. We have her siblings here who are over her behavior for now.

It is frustrating for sure. And yes, when we don’t know what they are doing during the silent treatment is worrisome.

Does your daughter aware that she has or you suspect BPD?






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Roseglow

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: mother
Posts: 13


« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2020, 07:31:58 PM »

Hi Squirrel,
Whoever said this parenting thing was going to be easy?
I am so sorry you have had to go through all the storms you have listed with your daughter!  I can so relate...
She must be so intelligent to be a nurse practitioner. The irony is not lost on me that she treats psych patients.   I do believe there is a connection with high IQ and sometimes mental illness.  Not sure what the connection is, but history bears this out.
I am trying to learn as much as I can about BPD.  There is a part of me that also believes that on some level, after so many, many episodes, they must realize there is something " not right here inside."  When you see how escalated they get, I can just imagine what their blood pressure is, cortisol levels, etc, etc.  Unfortunately, the stats on life expectancy, if they do not have a successful suicide attempt, show that it is shortened. Of course;, this makes sense.
With our daughter, evidently she was told by one of her psychiatrists that they thought she "might" have BPD & told her sibling this, but my daughter thought that was a lot of baloney.  I'm sure its not a diagnosis anyone wants to hear. On some level, I believe they must know in their heart of hearts, that they fit the criteria. One would think it might be a relief as they finally have an answer.
Since our daughters must be approximately the same age ie in their late20's/early thirties, some of the behavior ie in your daughters case affair soon after wedding, must seem so inappropriate to you. When your doc told you to keep going to her wedding(s), there is something inside of me that just doesn't resonate, as that being the right path.  I was raised, that when an adult, you have to take responsibility for one's actions. We all make mistakes, but for Goodness sake, not to repeat them.   
In my experience, I do agree there is no point getting into an argument when they are having one of their emotional rages.  I honestly think they kind of go into an altered state ( at least my daughter does) where she just doesn't hear you.  Not a good altered state, but one of rage and horrendous awfulness. It's like the devil has possessed her.
I do believe that the advice given on this site is helpful;, in that, when it happens, to just say, 'I see you are very upset now and I am going to leave the room/house so you can calm down. We can revisit this some other time when you feel more peaceful." Then, get up and leave.   The first time I did this, my daughter did not believe I actually left. She kept yelling and when I came back was irate to understand that I actually left her & didn't stay for all the accusations, yelling, blalming, etc. etc. She had calmed down quite substantially by then, but was bamboozled that I did not play the doormat. Won't kid you, it was hard. 
With your daughters upcoming visit, I would have a clear game plan with your partner.  Maybe a code word or some nonverbal action to indicate and confirm to one another that  things are escalating and you have to enact "Plan A"... whatever that looks like to you. Then stick with it.  I know when my daughter visits, I try and make sure she gets enough sleep, eats well, no glass of wine & keep things breezy. I must say, I still walk on eggshells, waiting for all hell to break loose. But, they are our daughters, our family.  I, for one, am not ready to give up on her.  Deep inside, there is sweetness, intelligence, but a whole lotta pain.  Keep us in the loop on how things play out.  You have a supportive presence here, one that understands.
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AskingWhy
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1025



« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2020, 05:14:40 PM »

My uBPD H has a uBPD D who is now 30.  She was kicked out of the military after a suicide attempt but not before sleeping with her military recruiter.  After she was let go, she immediately moved in with a man who was likely her military commander.

After this, she came to live with her F and me, taking a small part time job and attending the local vocation school.  She escalated or started using drugs, and her F was in denial of this.  She had three car accidents in the space of 4 years, and each time her F got her a new car without payment (free), and also paid for her car insurance.  After her third accident, we had her get her own car insurance.  In retrospect, she was high during those accidents; most of them were rear end accident and the other driver got stuck with liability.

While living with her F and me, she started dating many men at the same time. At one point, we had three very expensive flower arrangements (at least $100 each) in the house.  Each young man, I am sure, thought he was dating her exclusively.  At one point, she came home from a party in her social circle very upset because several young men that she had been intimate with were at the party.  

She was 23 and yet refused to pitch in with chores, saying it was not her house, and did not lock the house up when she went to work.  When she went out to socialize evenings, she'd come home well after midnight making enough noise to wake the dead, cursing and slamming doors.  One time I reminded her to lock up (this was a pattern), she told me to "go to H@ll" to my face.  At that point, I told her to move out, and I was surprised when her F backed me up, as I was expecting him to take her side.  She stated her intention to attend university.  That never materialised.

Fast forward, she dropped out of vocational college and started taking more drugs to the point of it landing her in the hospital.  She was in denial of the drug side effects, saying it was stress or the hours she was keeping at work. The doctor told us that he diagnosed her with a recreational side effect from drugs.   She has had several R/S, and the latest one is on and off.  This latest boyfriend was a sweetheart, and she always seems to be fighting with him.

She had devalued her F (karma) and has not spoken to him in several months.  When she was in high school living with her M out of state, she put him on silent treatment for eight months.  He would call each week and leave a happy, subservient message, telling her how much he missed her, loved her and to call him.  (M cheated on her F after 8 years of marriage and three children, and then divorced him to marry her lover.)  She visited her F at our house, then got into an argument and left slamming the door.  She always sucks up to her father around Christmas or her birthday, hoping he'll buy her something expensive.  She's quite transparent in the sucking up, cooing and calling him on the phone daily.  

BPD tends to run in families, but also a strong element of drug use among BPDs.

It's odd with my uBPD H and then seeing him get the same treatment from his uBPD D.  Just as he torments and devalues me, he is now devalued by his own D.  It's important to know BPDs treat their children as extensions of themselves, and they value their children more than their spouses.

At this point, my H said he's had enough of being treated like dirt or a money tree, and is backing off.  We will see. As he is BPD, I can easily see her coming back into his life (especially after one of her latest screw ups) and then her putting her ahead of me in his life and making her his confidante and surrogate spouse.  (See "covert incest.")
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 05:25:10 PM by AskingWhy » Logged
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