Recycling and Blurry Boundaries

[mongazish]

(I posted this on another board that has more to do with breakups, but was advised to maybe try this one as it may fit better.)

Would like any insight or other people's experience with this kind of thing.

My exgf (diagnosed bipolar, has most if not all bpd traits as well) and I separated back in October, so It's been about 8 months. I never really committed to no contact. We would text each other sometimes and then go a week or two or some days without talking. Sometimes she would leave my messages on "read" for days and other times she would be really quick to respond. Sometimes I wouldn't get back to her for days. I was trying to push myself to find a balance of not cutting her off but also not staying attached. After about 5 months we decided to meet up. We hangout all day and kiss goodbye and it feels good. It felt like we were able to be informal and have fun without getting caught up in each other. Over the next couple months we do this two more times. One time I ended up sleeping over in bed with her. (she had picked me up and said she was too tired to drive.) It felt good to be physical and have fun while still feeling the freedom to go on our own way afterwards.

This latest time however. I went to her house in late March (she lives with her dad by the way.) While I was there, I was told by my parents (I am currently living with them) that my sick and very old grandmother moved in with us for the time being. So I felt very resistant to going home because of all the COVID19 stuff. I didn't want to risk bringing it back there and killing my grandmother. My ex's dad told me I could stay there for a little because he understood the situation and knew it wasn't safe for me to go home. At first it was fine, I think because there was no pressure, and we all knew it was a weird temporary thing. There was no real negativity. We had a good time together and she joked about how she was glad I was her quarantine buddy. It all felt fresh and unattached similar to the beginning of the relationship but not quite. I was weary to not let it fizzle into anything. We were pretty sexual with each other again and just generally  having a good time. After a while I started to realize that at some point I would have to leave. I ended up staying there for almost two months, and by the end of it, things were pretty dull and negative and she was definitely sick of me being there. I wasn't really trying to move my life forward at all because I was essentially just waiting to go home. And I think that lack of direction was bothering her a lot and even her dad to an extent. I ended up leaving in May. Since I've been gone we have talked a few times and it has been very friendly. But I can't help but feel that she talks to me only when she has nothing going on and just needs the connection.

After the smoke cleared and I have been away for a while I realize this is probably the kind of thing people are talking about when they say "relationship recycles". I don't put it on her at all. It was a very weird situation. And it definitely doesn't feel like I am starting again from scratch after a breakup, but it has left me feeling still that I am giving more energy to her than she is to me. I am down to communicate with her most of the time, and it feels like she communicates with me when she is lonely.

Sorry didn't mean this to be so long. But hopefully if you are a part of this site you understand that these things are full of nuance. Thanks for reading, any words are appreciated.

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[once removed]

im glad you posted here. it sounds like there is "unfinished business" in this relationship.

there are really two issues as i see it...

the first is, as i said, both of you are kind of hesitant to go all in. you each find enjoyment from aspects of the relationship, but keep each other at arms length. she may be following your lead on this more than you realize.

the second is that one of the most important things in reversing a breakup, reconciling a relationship, whatever, is understanding why/what broke down in the previous iteration of the relationship, and coming up with a solid game plan (as much as possible) for how thats going to change.

so, what led up to the breakup? who initiated it? what about the relationship was broken?

was the dynamic thats happening now a part of it?

[mongazish]

the first is, as i said, both of you are kind of hesitant to go all in. you each find enjoyment from aspects of the relationship, but keep each other at arms length. she may be following your lead on this more than you realize.

the second is that one of the most important things in reversing a breakup, reconciling a relationship, whatever, is understanding why/what broke down in the previous iteration of the relationship, and coming up with a solid game plan (as much as possible) for how thats going to change.

I agree, when I zoom out I can start to  see how we are really similar in how we are approaching this situation which I think I was resistant to seeing for a while. Speaking for myself, the main reason that I had/have a hard time going all in is that she tends to always have eyes for something else. Whenever things got a little rocky she would make the point that there are 7 billion people on the planet and we can always find new people. The fact that this seems to be her "security blanket" philosophy makes it hard for me to trust that she will want to stick around and get through tough things together. She has told me she has a hard time committing to the idea of only kissing one person for the rest of her life. She doesn't really hold back when there is flirtatious energy between her and someone else and has slept with a couple people since we started our relationship.

One reason why she maybe doing this is because I was new to relationships in general and just loved her so much and didn't want anything to go south, so at the beginning we didn't really set clear boundaries for the relationship. We were in love, would talk about how we are like soulmates and the whole thing felt magical, but she would kind of hint at how labels freaked her out and clear definitions were too intense, which didn't seem like an issue to me at first, but after a few years you have to ask yourself, "what are we doing if we have been together for years but can't actually define what we are doing?" I am quick to give up my own self and my own desire for structure just so that she feels comfortable. But maybe she doesn't even want that? Maybe she wants me to disagree with her and tell her I want it to be more concrete because maybe that's what she wants too?

Prior to our relationship I was really into spirituality and expanding my consciousness so I became really passive to existence and could spiritually bypass anything to recenter myself in some sense of peace. These qualities and behaviors were really strong in me when we started the relationship so that definitely didn't do any good in the way of keeping a relationship strong and stable. I have since gotten away from that stuff a bit but it is a tough process. I know that also bothered her. My lack of ambition or motivation. She wanted me to take control more and have more of a role in planning things. I was reluctant to do so after a while because I felt like she didn't like my ideas and wanted to take control. And it felt like she did things that pecked away at my self esteem (I don't think it was intentional) so that I didn't really feel like putting a lot of effort into certain things, because it just felt like I was going to be met with an eyeroll and left hanging.

[once removed]

She has told me she has a hard time committing to the idea of only kissing one person for the rest of her life. She doesn't really hold back when there is flirtatious energy between her and someone else and has slept with a couple people since we started our relationship.

at the beginning we didn't really set clear boundaries for the relationship. We were in love, would talk about how we are like soulmates and the whole thing felt magical, but she would kind of hint at how labels freaked her out and clear definitions were too intense, which didn't seem like an issue to me at first, but after a few years you have to ask yourself, "what are we doing if we have been together for years but can't actually define what we are doing?

I am quick to give up my own self and my own desire for structure just so that she feels comfortable. But maybe she doesn't even want that? Maybe she wants me to disagree with her and tell her I want it to be more concrete because maybe that's what she wants too?

I know that also bothered her. My lack of ambition or motivation. She wanted me to take control more and have more of a role in planning things. I was reluctant to do so after a while because I felt like she didn't like my ideas and wanted to take control. And it felt like she did things that pecked away at my self esteem (I don't think it was intentional) so that I didn't really feel like putting a lot of effort into certain things, because it just felt like I was going to be met with an eyeroll and left hanging.

it sounds a bit like the bottom line is that the two of you either have very different (incompatible?) needs, or that shes leaning on you to lead. either one could have very different implications.

you like each other. theres a deep, and long lasting attraction. is it compatible?

what do you think?

[mongazish]

I think the fact that it was compatible for a while in the beginning made me think that at any point we could get back to that level of compatibility. But I feel like as time went on, what developed was more dysfunctional, unsustainable and honestly more accurate as to how our energies interact. Now there were other factors involved, like I had said I was getting really spiritual and using psychedelic drugs a lot and kind of sent myself into some psychotic periods, but like the bright side of psychotic, where everything was amazing. That actually probably had some part in her attraction to me. I was so free and confident, but I wasn't grounded. Over the last few years I have found that I am trying to come back to center and she is more or less on the same kick. She likes excitement. I like stability.
Another negative factor was that we ended up living at her dad's house for a long time. She wasn't stable enough to work most of the time and I was not in the mindset of working to the point of being a provider for both of us. I did so, but not enough to where we could have our own place. So the living situation did us no service at all and I definitely take a lot of responsibility for letting it go on as long as it did like that.

Sometimes I think if I focus on getting my own self stabilized (which I am doing regardless of the next chapter of my life) then if we still feel such a strong connection and attraction, we will be in a much better place individually and so it might make for a more sustainable relationship. I counter that though by telling myself that while I am thinking these things, she is just trying to keep herself occupied so as to not deal with some more internal issues. She has a hard time really reflecting and dealing with difficult things in healthy ways. And so we are on very different trips if you will while we are apart. I am "other" oriented and trying to become more "self" oriented. She is "self" oriented and I don't think she has a whole lot of capacity to be anything else right now which is totally understandable.

I think sometimes I am full of wishful thinking.

[once removed]

I think the fact that it was compatible for a while in the beginning made me think that at any point we could get back to that level of compatibility. But I feel like as time went on, what developed was more dysfunctional, unsustainable and honestly more accurate as to how our energies interact.

not to belabor the point...

you may be describing long term incompatibility.

both parties put their best foot forward initially...all those quirks (i know youre speaking to deeper things than this) are loveable, adorable things at first, that eventually drive you crazy. everything fits at first.

and then after a honeymoon phase, power struggles and conflict begin. they highlight incompatibilities. not everything about a couple need be compatible, of course. but the fundamental incompatibilities will, over time, continue to pop up and erode the relationship. they will drive conflict. its how a couple deals with that conflict...whether they have "the right stuff" to overcome incompatibilities, that is the real test of time, and ultimately strengthen the relationship.

are the two of you both what you want in your life? do the two of you know, at this stage, what you want in life? in a partner?

like I had said I was getting really spiritual and using psychedelic drugs a lot and kind of sent myself into some psychotic periods, but like the bright side of psychotic, where everything was amazing.

would you say that you were emotionally unavailable at a certain level?

[mongazish]

I appreciate your focusing in on the incompatibility issue. For a while I thought that was the main issue in which our energies are so different there isn't much either of us can do to resolve the issue. Then when things were going well I think I would psych myself and go "See we can make it work!" But those periods don't last.

I am not sure if we both know what we want in a partner. I think we were both in our own whirlwinds when we found each other and bonded heavily over that.

I would say that I am not one to go and try out partners to see if they fit and for the validation of having someone admire me. I want to feel strongly about someone before I open myself up in that way.
My ex is driven in a way by that sense of validation and admiration, and so she is almost always seeking and trying out (even if it is only in her mind as an idea) new partners.

So I think the fact that we approach the idea of a partner so differently to begin with speaks to a fundamental incompatibility. At least where we are in our lives right now.

As for your question about emotional availability. It is hard for me to see for myself. I think in certain ways I was very available because I could put what I was doing on hold to make space for hearing her and taking her in. At the same time, I might have gotten into the habit of doing that too much and so was over available which might even be its own form of emotional unavailability? Like if you are so available that you aren't actually yourself then are you really available? I also think to an extent I was in my head too much to really be emotionally empathetic. I could understand and reason anything out with my mind, but I couldn't necessarily get myself to feel it. That has been a very hard thing to understand about myself.

[once removed]

so whats going on between the two of you lately? any update?

[mongazish]

It's been about 2 months since I left her house again. I've been home. We stay in touch still. We hung out the other day, went for a long drive and talked about things (not relationship things, just light friendly hangout) and we got some food. Upon leaving we hugged for a long time and I felt compelled to kiss her, but didn't expect anything from her so I just said "I'm going to kiss you." And gave her a kiss on the cheek and then it seemed like she turned her face into mine and we kissed a little, very short and  light. Within the next hour I felt anxious about kissing her. I felt like if I want to maintain any sort of relationship with her even if it is just a friendship, I need to practice restraint and hold boundaries. Not that kissing someone is the end of the world. But it felt the whole idea of dessert before dinner or something if you know what I mean. She is someone who I get along with really well. We were friends for a while before dating. And I know she has problems with impulse control and emotions. And apparently I do too haha. So after a while I just messaged her and apologized to her if the kiss made her feel weird and that I felt like I maybe shouldn't have done it. She replied with a heart and said "no problem."

She is a very intermittent texter, like I may have mentioned in earlier posts. So I am trying to practice restraint there too, because most of the time, I respond to her always and usually when I have the chance to. She often leaves me on "read" or will respond for a bit pretty quickly and then be gone. And I've spent enough time with her to know that she always has her phone with her. So it's rare that she doesn't see the messages. But that also feels like a petty thing to worry about, and it wouldn't be on my mind so much if I had a lot more going on in my life, but currently I don't so I am working on that.

[once removed]

so its been a while since the two of you have been in the thick of it, but clearly there are still feelings.

I felt like if I want to maintain any sort of relationship with her even if it is just a friendship, I need to practice restraint and hold boundaries.

i guess the question becomes what sort of relationship do you want with her? a romantic one, a friendship?

So it's rare that she doesn't see the messages. But that also feels like a petty thing to worry about, and it wouldn't be on my mind so much if I had a lot more going on in my life, but currently I don't so I am working on that.

it may be that shed rather conduct what is going on between the two of you in person rather than by text.