First time writing. Mom is having an episode.

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I apologize for this being so long. Thank you so much if you make it to the bottom. I really need some guidance or at least to feel less alone right now.

I am having a really hard time right now and I was hoping to reach out to this group for guidance since I have no one to talk to right now. I am an adult and had to move back in with my parents (mom has borderline) during this time of covid. Knowing I had to move back gave me the worst feeling in my stomach that I am sure many of you can relate to.

Anyway, to give a small bit of background: mom is in complete denial of her having ANY mental illness and blames all her "depression" on my father, who is very codependent (a perfect storm and an endless spiral of hurt, resentment and sadness between the two). My mom manipulates my father and despite all of his training he has done regarding living with someone who struggles with BP, he is not the most forward thinking person and "messes up"- that is to say, he says the wrong thing, or isn't careful about what she sees and hears and ultimately will trigger an episode. My dad has endured this for over thirty years. I love my dad but sometimes I still struggle and have some anger at his codependency with her as her "happiness" has overshadowed the care for my brother and my wellbeing since we were children. I know he doesn't mean to- he's surviving. But in the process, my brother and I had to deal with things growing up that would have been nipped in the bud far quicker if my dad had just taken care of us and got us out of the toxic situation as one might hope a father would do.

My mom treats my brother and myself as young children and I have read that that is common for BP parents. Growing up we were either golden children, or the worst possible and I will tell you, honestly, my brother and I are good people, despite having a parent that kept us nervous and in fear that we weren't going to be loved day to day.

By the by, has anyone noticed that when someone with BP has an episode that they forget what they did? My mom had some incredibly violent episodes that I witnessed in my teens and into my college years. She was even admitted into a hospital three times I think for 72 hours each (don't quote me on that but I think that was what it was). But it's almost as if she has no memory of any of it. I don't ever mention these things- I am careful and so thoughtful about what I say with her. But she really doesn't remember ever telling me she had borderline... she thinks all she has is depression because of my father. My father is to blame for everything, she says.

So- about a week ago, she was sent spiraling into an episode with no end in sight. I asked my dad about it and he said that she found texts from him to my brother and myself with the whole "mom is a bit wonky today, don't worry" and so on. Unfortunately, she also found texts he sent to his boss or other people- "My wife is having a hard time right now, I won't be in until noon", so forth. This was bad. Very bad. Mom thinks that dad is making her out to be crazy, when it is actually HIS fault that she is "depressed" and that he has been "deceiving" us. The truth is, Dad sends us these texts to warn us and to give us a heads up about the situation in the house. He does not trash talk her. Which is ironic, because she sends me nasty texts about my father- sometimes even speaking intimately of their terrible sex life... why that is my business, I will never know.

Dad sat me down yesterday, prepping me that she basically wants him to repent for his texts against her in front of us, and admit that it is all his fault that she is depressed. As if we are that stupid. Why does she think we don't know everything? They fight ALL the time and it is violent even if no throws are punched. She is cruel in what she says to my father and this little display is just to shame and humiliate him in front of us. It makes me sick.

Anyway, the talk is coming- probably tomorrow. My question is- what do I say? Or do I say nothing? Whenever she has written me a text about my father I only respond as I was told in BP books- just "I am sorry that you are so sad. Please know I love you". And leave it at that. But now she will be standing in front of me looking for my response. And I am usually able to bite my tongue but I am worried I'll just want to explode "you are sick and you need help". If I didn't live with them, maybe I could go that route. But I don't have a choice of where to live right now so I am stuck here. I don't want to pour fuel on the fire while I live under her roof.

Anyway, if anyone has some insight, I would welcome it with open arms.
Thank you very much for reading.

[Roe88]

I apologize for this being so long. Thank you so much if you make it to the bottom. I really need some guidance or at least to feel less alone right now.

I am having a really hard time right now and I was hoping to reach out to this group for guidance since I have no one to talk to right now. I am an adult and had to move back in with my parents (mom has borderline) during this time of covid. Knowing I had to move back gave me the worst feeling in my stomach that I am sure many of you can relate to.

Anyway, to give a small bit of background: mom is in complete denial of her having ANY mental illness and blames all her "depression" on my father, who is very codependent (a perfect storm and an endless spiral of hurt, resentment and sadness between the two). My mom manipulates my father and despite all of his training he has done regarding living with someone who struggles with BP, he is not the most forward thinking person and "messes up"- that is to say, he says the wrong thing, or isn't careful about what she sees and hears and ultimately will trigger an episode. My dad has endured this for over thirty years. I love my dad but sometimes I still struggle and have some anger at his codependency with her as her "happiness" has overshadowed the care for my brother and my wellbeing since we were children. I know he doesn't mean to- he's surviving. But in the process, my brother and I had to deal with things growing up that would have been nipped in the bud far quicker if my dad had just taken care of us and got us out of the toxic situation as one might hope a father would do.

My mom treats my brother and myself as young children and I have read that that is common for BP parents. Growing up we were either golden children, or the worst possible and I will tell you, honestly, my brother and I are good people, despite having a parent that kept us nervous and in fear that we weren't going to be loved day to day.

By the by, has anyone noticed that when someone with BP has an episode that they forget what they did? My mom had some incredibly violent episodes that I witnessed in my teens and into my college years. She was even admitted into a hospital three times I think for 72 hours each (don't quote me on that but I think that was what it was). But it's almost as if she has no memory of any of it. I don't ever mention these things- I am careful and so thoughtful about what I say with her. But she really doesn't remember ever telling me she had borderline... she thinks all she has is depression because of my father. My father is to blame for everything, she says.

So- about a week ago, she was sent spiraling into an episode with no end in sight. I asked my dad about it and he said that she found texts from him to my brother and myself with the whole "mom is a bit wonky today, don't worry" and so on. Unfortunately, she also found texts he sent to his boss or other people- "My wife is having a hard time right now, I won't be in until noon", so forth. This was bad. Very bad. Mom thinks that dad is making her out to be crazy, when it is actually HIS fault that she is "depressed" and that he has been "deceiving" us. The truth is, Dad sends us these texts to warn us and to give us a heads up about the situation in the house. He does not trash talk her. Which is ironic, because she sends me nasty texts about my father- sometimes even speaking intimately of their terrible sex life... why that is my business, I will never know.

Dad sat me down yesterday, prepping me that she basically wants him to repent for his texts against her in front of us, and admit that it is all his fault that she is depressed. As if we are that stupid. Why does she think we don't know everything? They fight ALL the time and it is violent even if no throws are punched. She is cruel in what she says to my father and this little display is just to shame and humiliate him in front of us. It makes me sick.

Anyway, the talk is coming- probably tomorrow. My question is- what do I say? Or do I say nothing? Whenever she has written me a text about my father I only respond as I was told in BP books- just "I am sorry that you are so sad. Please know I love you". And leave it at that. But now she will be standing in front of me looking for my response. And I am usually able to bite my tongue but I am worried I'll just want to explode "you are sick and you need help". If I didn't live with them, maybe I could go that route. But I don't have a choice of where to live right now so I am stuck here. I don't want to pour fuel on the fire while I live under her roof.

Anyway, if anyone has some insight, I would welcome it with open arms.
Thank you very much for reading.

[Sancerre89]

I wish I had the right answer but I want you to know I can relate and you are not alone. I think you should stick with the response the books showed you. Reiterate your love and show that even if you don’t understand you are present. Don’t agree with what she says about your dad. I agree that I would suggest you react a little differently if you weren’t living there, but telling her she needs help wouldn’t lend itself to a positive outcome either so I think perhaps later discussing boundaries with her could be helpful. Letting her know you want to connect With her, but some aspects of their private life are not appropriate for you. Boundaries are hard, but help to enable you to hold her to some accountability and give you some emotional freedom

[Methuen]

Dad sat me down yesterday, prepping me that she basically wants him to repent for his texts against her in front of us, and admit that it is all his fault that she is depressed.

 One person (adult) should not tell another person (adult) they have to apologize in front of third parties.  This is between her and your dad.  She is trying to triangulate.  Emotional abuse is often based on an inequality of power.  Telling your dad he must apologise for something that does NOT warrant an apology, is an abuse of power.  This is just wrong.  What are your dad's values about honesty, and genuineness?  What are your values about honesty and genuineness?  Apologies must be genuine, or they are useless, which this would be, except that it fulfills her "need" to express her supreme authority and power over your dad.  I understand your point about this being an exercise to humiliate the poor man.  Humiliation is a technique used when there is unequal power balance between two people.

If you weren't living there, I would suggest you refuse to be a party to this game of hers.  However, you are living there, so that complicates things further.

I'm guessing you are familiar with the Karpman drama triangle?
https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

What would happen if you and your father didn't play "her game"?  What would she do, if he didn't apologise?

By the by, has anyone noticed that when someone with BP has an episode that they forget what they did?

Absolutely!  This perfectly describes my mom.  I've never been able to figure out if she's "faking" not remembering the incident, or if she genuinely has no memory of it.  After some reading, and many people on this site reporting the same experience (of pwBPD not remembering their volcanic eruption) I have a theory that when they are in an emotional rage, the brain functions differently, and perhaps that's why they have no recall of the incident.  

What if you just had a "visit", and said nothing about these texts?  Inotherwords, don't play ball with her.  

If it was my mom doing this to my dad, and my mom brought it up:

Mom: (Dad's name) don't you have something to say to the kids?
Dad: starts an apology...
Me: I would stand up and say, "I'm not comfortable being part of this conversation.  This problem is between husband and wife.  I can't play a part in this as it is between you two.  I have to go now."
Mom: starts protesting
Me: "Mom, this is a conversation for husband and wife to have.  I have to go now, but I do hope that you two can discuss it like adults, and solve it together.  I care about (or love) you both."
Mom: starts protesting again, or yelling...
Me: walk out, go to my bedroom, quietly close the door.  Play some music or do some yoga.  Possibly lock the door, and put headphones on.  Don't come out until she has calmed down.  Perhaps have a supply of water and snacks in your bedroom.

There could be all kinds of variations to this, but basically you are setting boundaries.

1) It sets a boundary - that you will not get drawn into an issue that is between your parents.  

2) It sets a boundary - that you will not participate in being drawn into her drama.

3) You are also reminding her and your dad that they need to solve their own problems, and not drag you into their conflict.  In effect, you are reminding them how to behave as adults (but don't tell them that!)

4) Your are not participating in your mom's power games.

5) You are reminding them that you care about them.  If she's not expecting this, it could help to disarm her (even if it's just a little bit)

6) For me it would be really important to follow through and leave the situation, because my values are such that I don't want to participate in a process (escalation, conflict, drama) I don't believe is helpful.

I'm no expert in any of this.  I don't really understand your situation, or have to live in it, the way you do.  But ultimately, I've come to learn and accept that I have to do and say things that fit with my own VALUES, and the things I believe are important, so that I can feel good about myself afterwards, regardless of the outcome.  If my uBPD mom doesn't like something I say or do, those are her feelings to sort through.  Eventually, she calms down.  Sometimes it's hours, or it can be days, or it can even be weeks.  I believe that it's a basic human right to be able to have my own feelings and beliefs, separate from my mom.  

However you decide to handle or respond to whatever comes up and happens tomorrow, it is important to remember that setting boundaries and using new skills takes time to get good at.  It's a process.  We don't get it all right the first few times.  If it goes well tomorrow, GREAT!  You can breathe a huge sigh of relief and reflect on why it went well.  If it doesn't go well, the important thing is to learn from it and reflect on what you would change or do differently for next time.

Whatever happens, you are just doing the best you can in a really difficult situation, so give yourself a pat on the back, and be especially kind to yourself.  

Let us know how it goes.

[pursuingJoy]

Roe88, checking in. How are you? Did the talk go as expected?

[LunaJoy]

Hi Roe88, I found that refusing to take part in my mother's triangulation attempts ('your sister is 25 and her life is over!') went surprisingly well.  She backed off and respected my position.  Fingers crossed that it goes well for you if that is what you do/did.  And lockdown in that household sounds truly uncomfortable, hope you are out soon.