I initiated a break, he went into a rage, pushed me out. Can I stop the breakup?

[Abazaba]

I've been in a relationship for 6 years, engaged for 1. However, I never knew he had BPD up until my therapy session yesterday. I always knew something was off, but I didn't know what. Anyways, we moved in together in May (during covid lockdown - bad idea). We went from seeing each other 2-3x per week to being around each other nonstop, all day 24/7. He was just as temperamental as always, but I was just around it more. He became really critical of everything I did, my clothes, my hair, my makeup, and would at times have irrational outbursts. I had no idea it was BPD but I got to a breaking point - always walking on eggshells, never knowing when I'd do the next "wrong" thing that would set him off.

After telling him repeatedly that I was not happy with how things were going, I started a long discussion with him about thinking that the relationship wasn't going to work. We eventually got to a point where we decided to take a brief break. The next morning, I was already regretting my move and wanted to stay - but he insisted I go stay at my mom's a few days, so I did. For the next couple days, I kept asking him to move back, but he refused. Finally, I decided to start therapy. My therapist suggested extending my stay out of the house. My BPD then began begging me to go back, but I told him no and that I thought we should do a few therapy sessions before me moving back in. I did NOT tell him I wanted to end the relationship.

Out of nowhere, he had a huge flip, refused to talk to me, blocked me, and went on a tirade. He then essentially forced me to move out last week as much as I told him I wanted to be with him and work on our relationship. The day I went to pack up, he was texting his mom about how he "never wanted to break up," and blamed me for everything. Since then, he has texted me every few days with the most horrendous verbal assaults ever - called me names, told me I abandoned him, that he hates me and hopes I suffer, etc. Normally, when he would get mad, it would last  couple hours and then he would calm down and apologize. It still wasn't healthy - but it wasn't like this.

At this point, it's been 2 months since I initiated the "break," followed by weeks of begging to go back. It's been almost 1 week since he forced me to move out, but he continues to text me periodically about how I never appreciated him, that I don't realize how much he loved me, and that he hates me. He kept asking me to return my ring back to him, but when I would say "ok, when should I give it to you" he would change the subject. He continues to text things like "even if you came back you couldn't handle me, you don't care about me, you never did, I want to die, you had your chance, never again." I've apologized repeatedly and told him that I was sorry for my impulsive decision to tell him I wanted a "break," and that I want to work on the relationship. He started therapy a few weeks ago as well, and I feel like the therapy has made him more intense and full of rage than ever before. At one point, he cut off his mom too - telling her that she was the worst mother in the world.

I didn't know it was BPD until literally yesterday, when my therapist asked me to look into that as a possibility. It is definitely BPD. At this point, I am regretting the "break" even though I never wanted to end the relationship. I want to work on this, but I don't know what I can possibly do to have him ease up and let me back in. I understand only NOW that my "break" talk probably severely triggered his abandonment issue. I had no idea. Is there anything I can do? Is there hope since he is still texting me and not asking me for my ring back?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Abazaba]

Can anyone share any advice?

[Goosey]

“understand only NOW that my "break" talk probably severely triggered his abandonment issue.”
     I would not be so hard on yourself. I could never seem to say the correct thing in the heat of the moment. I’m sure the moment has past and more drama has moved in anyway.
  My therapist tried  to teach me how to “talk” with my wife. The therapist explained the “drama triangle” etc. 
  None of it clicked until I read “Stop walking on eggshells”.
Only then did I grasp the intensity of feelings bpd inflicts.
       Just keep yourself safe. That’s the most important thing.
 I am still new  to this I am sure more confident and knowledgeable members will chime in.
 Read a book this afternoon or watch tv. No harm in just taking some time for yourself.
 

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Aba-

Welcome to our community.  I’m sorry for the pain that brings you here, but very glad that you’ve found your way to this forum.

Here’s what I see, and like most others on this site, I’m no authority, just a person who’s “been through it”...

Tho’ it doesn’t feel like it, you’ve received a “gift” of sorts... a glimpse, actually a hard hard LOOK into your future with the man you intend(ed) to become your husband.   Because... you’ve been with him for 6 years and moved in with him in May of this year.  You rather quickly felt overwhelmed and needed a break (NOT a breakup).  How long exactly did you share the house?  Have you met for a coffee?  A walk?

Things with pwBPD (people with BPD) or strong BPD or NPD traits don’t just resolve themselves.  It’s takes a LOT of work and commitment to therapy, from the person who suffers from those traits and behaviors.  AND from their partners...Because there are 2 people in these romantic relationships. 

Please understand, I don’t intend to be harsh - but when we accept some of these more rabid behaviors as simply “he’s temperamental”... could be time to turn that mirror toward you.  Most of us need to do that, my friend.  You ARE, by doing therapy, and that’s a good, VERY good thing.  Can you define “temperamental”?  In the past, did he send you vile texts?  Ever?

And he’s in therapy.  A great thing.  And hopefully he sticks with it.  Wondering if he started because you suggested that as one of the conditions for reuniting?   At any rate, his rising anger with therapy may be due to the taking on board of “Someone’s saying something’s WRONG with ME”... and if...if he’s been introduced to the concept of either BPD or NPD, then there may be finger-pointing at his mom in therapy.  And that would raise his RAGE toward his mom. 

People with these disorders often have little insight at the beginning of their healing journeys and NEED someone to blame.  Everyday for everything.  Actually there normally ARE a combination of reasons and explanations that ppl develop these painful ways of dealing or not dealing with their own emotions.  Of needing to exert CONTROL of those within their grasp, perhaps because of things they couldn’t control in childhood.  And I hate to say this, the blame habit seems to be a long term strategy... not certain the taking of responsibility ever CAN be fully “fixed”... I just don’t know...

One thing to remember is that it appears from your post that the TWO of you decided to take some space.  But yes, pwBPD traits, actually LOTS of people hear what they want to hear.  I think sometimes when people have discussions like that they fail to define the terms of the space-taking ..l think rather than discussing what the issues are in the relationship, some people  jump for the exit - and often with GOOD reason.  My exBF was completely incapable of EVER discussing anything of import happening inside our relationship.  He just couldn’t without escalating to a complete RAGING maniac.  So after 6.5 years of crushing defeat, I had to let him go for the last time.  It happens.  He silenced me for the last time.  Called me vile names.  For the last time.

As for the “fear of abandonment” thing...  many people focus on that trait.  I’m not so sure about that, but again I’m no expert, though in retrospect it seems I kind of welcome disordered people.  But being involved with someone who has that fear is NOT a reason to stay if you are being treated with cruelty.  Just don’t FOCUS on that trait.

Here’s my “advice”.  First my “resume: I’m old.  62.  19 years married (obviously divorced) to a man with NPD and some BPD traits... our marriage T told me.  6.5 years with NPD/BPD man... different but kind of similar to exH.  And me?  I discovered myself that I have some BPD traits, very quiet.  Just discovering how to express anger.  Only expressed it inwardly.  NEVER outwardly toward anyone except on the night my exBF and I parted in February 2020.  I gave it a try in response to him.  Felt good and appropriate.

Okay, “advice”...  (and yea, I’m pushing this to the future)..
1. get to know yourself.  Your relationship is likely salvageable.  Yes, he’s reaching out.  That’s a good thing.  Get to REALLY KNOW YOURSELF.    Aba, I MEAN this!  Think about how you Truly FEEL about things.  LOTS of things.  Without anyone else’s input or thoughts.  Find out WHO you are.  Be with someone who shares your core values.

2.  Don’t rely on ANYONE for a LIVING or a LIFE.  Always keep friends of your OWN and income of your OWN.  No matter who your partner is or isn’t.  Keep your family and your friends IN your life.  Keep your income steady.   NEVER permit isolation.  ESTABLISH and ENFORCE these BOUNDARIES from day 1.

3.  TOOLS, WORKSHOPS on this site are invaluable for helping you navigate through your relationships... with your love and others.  Please start with learning NOT to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain).  Then perhaps read about VALIDATION (more toward (learning how NOT to be INVALIDATING).
4..NEVER TEXT about anything important.  Ever.  When he escalates in text, you can set a boundary and simply state... “I can see something has upset you.  I am sad this is how you see me right now.  When you’re feeling better, please feel free to call me or send me an email.  I cannot respond further in text, this upsets me too much.”  And then YOU STOP.  THAT IS YOUR BOUNDARY.  Your boundaries are for YOU.  A boundary represents YOUR VALUES.  You can also read about BOUNDARIES in the TOOLS, WORKSHOPS SECTION.

Oh Aba, I got carried away... sorry.

Please stay on the site.  Share your thoughts..  love yourself, love him... but you cannot love him to wellness.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Abazaba]

Thanks for the response. To be honest I used the word “temperamental” to prevent a very long post from being even longer. I’m fully admitting and acknowledging that the the behavior is very intense and difficult. My fiancé flys into rages 2-3x per week. Sometimes, I can’t even quite figure out why or what happened. He has sent vile texts in the past, but not quite this vile. He is unpredictable and I’m never quite sure what’s going to set him off. Before I moved out, there was a day he adjusted the AC very low. I was cold, so I put on a sweater. When he saw the sweater, he immediately flew into a rage saying that I was sick and needed to see a doctor because I shouldn’t be cold.

I appreciate the words - I do need to focus on myself and what I want. I’m so scared of the unknowns. He started therapy because I suggested that we both should. He was not resistant - he’s been in and out of therapy for many years. I do not know if his therapist has actually mentioned a diagnosis.

One of the reasons I needed the break was because I knew that talking to him was unlikely to bring about any positive results - he can only converse for a few minutes before it turns into rage. I will continue to work on myself, as I feel like that’s all I can do now.

[Abazaba]

Also, I've apologized at least half a dozen times now for initiating the break, as in hindsight I wish I had just recommended couples therapy. My apologies just result in more intense verbal assaults, insults, telling me he hates me, hopes I suffer, etc.

For now I have totally stopped texting, calling, etc. He hasn't reached out in 3 days so far.

[Brooklyn1974]

I really feel for you.  BPD's traits are filled with intense emotions.  You are literally walking on eggshells because they have abandonment/engulfment issues.  If you get too close, they pull away.  If you pull away they fear abandonment and will pull you back.  This is something they cannot help, it's something you cannot teach them to change.  That's where major therapy (DBT) comes into play.  It takes them acknowledging they have a mental illness and want to change.  IMO unless they do therapy it becomes very hard to deal with as a spouse.

I've been married to one for 16 years.  Honestly there are days where it's brutal.  If you read my posts, babyducks has been helping me out greatly.  In the 16 years I've been married I cannot honestly say I have been secure in my marriage with her.  Not to say your marriage would be like that but there seems to be a general course of action these BPDs take.  My wife has issues with impulsiveness which included: Cheating, verbal, emotional and at times physical abuse.  Financial irresponsibility (taking money from me, taking out high interest payday loans, etc..).  We have a daughter together and as my counselor told me, my wife was a great mom until my daughter started speaking up to her about what she was doing wrong.  My wife has me painted black and my daughter at a distance.

They will pull you into different directions because they think black and white.  Remember their emotional IQ is that of a child, even though they are usually high functioning and very smart.  Read up on the JADE, SET and Boundaries.  Realize that with BPD you won't have a 'normal' relationship.  If you think back those years you were with him, I am sure there was a lot of drama and 'bad surprises' as my daughter calls them.  Does he have substance abuse problems?  My wife is 10 months sober but BPDs do tend to gravitate towards alcohol or drugs.

I feel for you, I really do.  It hurts.  You don't know what's coming next.  Do you feel like he just gives you enough just to keep hanging in there?  Do you start to doubt your own self-worth?  Do you find yourself pushing his needs in front of yours?  Thinking about yourself is not selfish.  The best way I can put it as:  Paramedics won't help a victim unless they know they are safe themselves.  Please make sure you are safe.  Put yourself number one priority.  Therapists that deal with BPDs usually go for therapy themselves, that should tell you a lot.  They can be extremely difficult to deal with.  

Glad you posted and hope you keep doing so.

[Abazaba]

Yes we’ve had so much drama, but I can’t shake the feeling of wanting him back and wanting to try couples therapy. When I initially proposed a break, that’s what I wanted - but he turned it into an full blown breakup in response. Now I’m pure evil, I trigger him, and I’m all these terrible things. I find myself often mulling over things for a really long time because I don’t know how he will react. I find myself second guessing whether I should or shouldn’t do things because it might set him off. In the two months I was there, I often felt on edge. I will read up on the techniques you recommended. I appreciate it.

He does have a history of drug abuse and had been sober for 10 years. He still has addictive patterns with every hobby or activity he gets into, but he is not using drugs. This is so hard and painful!

[BearInHell]

Hello...like your post and so many others, everything you shared resonates with me. IMO, you should see this as a blessing in disguise. I'm sure you love this person deeply, just as I do my partner, but know that you will be in for a lifetime of intense heartache and pain if you remain in this relationship. You will find someone else to love and love you, and hopefully that person will be healthy. This relationship with the BPD will always be full of pain, anger, sadness, deep hurt, confusion, etc. It just doesn't go away. It will always be something. You alone will always be wrong and fully to blame for everything. Your life will be a roller coaster contingent upon whatever your BPD partner is feeling, thinking, perceiving, etc. I'm very sorry for your pain. I'm in similar circumstances, except much more complicated after being married for so long and having several children.

[Abazaba]

Thank you for your response! Have you tried individual and/or couples therapy? Is that of any benefit? I see so many articles saying that the symptoms die down with age and that DBT works wonders. I see just as many actual people in the relationships saying it does little, if anything.

[Brooklyn1974]

I don't know if it 'dies down' with age.  My wife is 43 years old and I have read posts on here where BPDs are still very active with their traits well into their senior years.  I am in counseling and so is my wife.  It helps me in a sense but our counselor is not well versed in BPD.  I have asked her to research it more.  My wife did have a psychologist and it worked really well however she quit when the psychologist started getting into her past.

I would highly suggest looking into a psychologist and when you feel the time is right to invite him.  I wouldn't give an ultimatum but would say something like 'I started therapy and it really has made me feel better, if you would like to join sometime you are more than welcome'.  When we had the psychologist, I went first.  My wife had me feeling like I was crazy, everything was my fault.  I was assured it wasn't.  The next time we went as a couple and my goal was for her to talk.  She did.  During that hour, I only spoke the last five minutes.  She raged, vented and pushed everything onto me.  The psychologist saw right through her and requested my wife come to the next meeting alone.  It wasn't until after she stopped going that the psychologist called me and told me to look up the traits of BPD.  It finally made sense.  Though she warned to never tell my wife that she has BPD, that it's the therapist's job to do so.  Doing that myself can cause major harm to her.

You are an overthinker like me.  However I feel that the 'what ifs' or 'what can we do to fix this' is just going to give us more anxiety.  They rely on their significant other to be a support system and if we are not well ourselves we cannot be equipped to handle their needs.

IMO maybe setting short term goals for yourself to gain back your confidence might help?  Short term goals for you.  It will help bring back your self-worth.  DBT does work however it takes months/years to see improvement but he has to want the help.  Good chance he will be reaching out to you, I would suggest having a plan in place when this happens.  I really urge you to read up on the JADE, SET and setting limits.  It will help the arguments and outbursts.  Realize that this can be a lifetime commitment of what I would call it 'unsecure love'.  I've been married for 16 years and they have a tendency of always keeping you on edge (at least my wife does).  I urge you to constantly take care of yourself, especially emotionally.  It's very easy to get depressed when dealing with people that have this illness.

[Abazaba]

I am looking into JADE and SET. These strategies seem like they might be tough to actually consistently implement. Sometimes the behaviors get draining and I imagine it will be really hard when I’m stressed out or too tired myself. I will have to try.

My other concern is, don’t they see through these strategies? My BPD is very intelligent. I feel like he’ll know it’s a therapy tool and maybe get annoyed.

I am definitely an overthinker! The idea that this doesn’t die with age scares me a bit - I’m not really sure what kind of life I’m looking at if we reconcile. He is in therapy, but I don’t know if he knows he has BPD. I would just like to have a conversation with him and have some closure - being tossed aside overnight with zero empathy is very brutal.

I am still holding out hope that he will want to reconcile, but I’m also afraid this might be it...

[Brooklyn1974]

I understand where you are coming from.  You have to measure (kind of like a thermometer) on how much they are filled with emotion.  Not just by words but by facial expressions, etc.. The higher they are emotion-wise the more validation you will use.  You won't be saying 'I understand' after every single thing they say but for example he comes in upset and says 'I am having an awful day', then that's when you want to say something such as 'I understand you are having a bad day, is there something that you or we can do to help this?'

No one is perfect, I often get caught up in the moment and forget to use these guides.  When you are overwhelmed by him the best thing to do is to say "I don't want to talk about this right now, I will when things are calmer" then walk away.  You are letting him know that you cannot deal with the situation right now but you are not ignoring him.

They cannot provide empathy when they are so filled with their intense emotion.  Yes it hurts and it makes the non-BPD feel empty inside.  Is that something you can continue to live with?  I can't remember the last time my wife even gave me a hug, it's been years.  When the relationship started she was everything on my list that I wanted.  Affection was one of the items up there on my list and she was doing it.  However by reading up on BPD as long as you are their knight in shining armor they will idolize you, though as soon as they realize that we cannot make them happy 100% and cannot fulfill their sense of self then that's when things change. 

That's why I try to stress about taking care of yourself.  If you are looking for them to fulfill what you need in a relationship then you will might have to readjust those needs.  At least that's what I am getting from my experience with my wife.  After 16 years I am now finally thinking of divorce.  It's not that I don't love her it's that I don't believe she can fulfill my needs (which is secure love, affection and being responsible for herself).  I have a 12 yr old daughter that needs me and the constant anxiety is going to give me a heart attack.

How do you think you would do if the relationship is over?  What are your plans if he comes back and says he wants to be back with you?  What changes are you willing to make, what limits would be placed on him?  If nothing is addressed then you know the probability of things returning to the way they were are high.

Having closure with a BPD in my opinion would be very difficult, especially with their push/pull emotions.  Though we are having difficulties with our BPD partners I can only imagine what goes on through their heads.

[once removed]

My other concern is, don’t they see through these strategies? My BPD is very intelligent. I feel like he’ll know it’s a therapy tool and maybe get annoyed.

yes.

if you use rehearsed, canned lines, in order to soothe or otherwise get rid of his feelings, he will see right through it and feel condescended to. anyone would, and this one of the most posted about issues members face when they are learning the tools. its awkward, until you practice, and it becomes second nature...natural, and authentic, which are the most critical parts of any communication technique.

i dont know if youre a religious person, but in the bible, jesus offers an example of how to pray when he recites the lords prayer.

there is a lot to learn from good examples. but merely reciting them isnt it.

any update?

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear OR-

The OP has another thread going below that began on August 3, I believe.  I’d love to see your thoughts there?

Thanks,
Gemsforeyes