Maybe finally filing for divorce...

[stolencrumbs]

It's been a long time since I've posted about my own story, and perhaps I'll post more about the past six months or so at some point. There are plenty of things that happened, but in the big picture, things pretty much stayed the same as they had been. I kept my own apartment. I would see my wife a few times a week. I'd do yard work and house maintenance and we'd eat together or watch TV. She would have meltdowns a few times a week when I wasn't there. She made a lot of suicide threats. Almost burned the house down once. And told me every time I brought up divorce that she would absolutely kill herself if I did that. There were some attempts. So I foolishly kept doing what I was doing, while also trying to live my own life. It was an uncomfortable stasis, but was sort of predictable and I had gotten pretty used to just living like that.

About two weeks ago, I was presented with an opportunity to live on campus as a faculty-in-residence. It's probably not as great of an opportunity as it would be in a non-covid world, but it's still a good opportunity, and a free apartment and a meal plan. I talked to my wife about this and she, predictably, freaked out, mainly because it was a commitment to not live with her and to continue living separately. What was not predictable was what happened in the last week, roughly starting the night after we talked about the faculty-in-residence thing.

One night, she started a group text with my mom and dad, brother and sister-in-law, her parents, my cousins and their wives, and my aunt. She has not spoken to anyone in my family for years. The texts she normally sends to me were now going to everyone. They were mainly about how horrible I am and how horribly I treat her and how nobody knows her story and how they all think I'm great but really I'm a terrible, horrible person. There were more details, but that was the gist.

So now my whole family is involved. I convince everyone that the best response is to not respond and they all trust me on this except my sister-in-law, who decided to respond with pretty much everything she's wanted to say to my wife for fifteen years. It was not nice and was not helpful at all. My wife, obviously, responded to this with personal attacks and more rage. Then she emailed my sister-in-law's boss to tell her what a terrible person she is and that she doesn't know what a horrible person she has working for her.

Then, a night later, she started another group text with a smaller number of my family and said, among other things, that "I beat her black and blue." She followed that up with a picture of herself with a black eye.

Then, I think the same night, she emailed my boss to tell him what a horrible person I was. I don't know the content of her email to my boss, and I don't know if she claimed I beat her. She won't tell me what she said. I talked to my boss yesterday and told him a little bit about what's going on and at least right now, everything is fine on that front.

I called the crisis response unit and they came to the house on Saturday morning. I was not there. By my wife's account, they sat and had coffee and a nice chat and they left.

She spent most of Saturday and Sunday telling me I was going to get fired, refusing to tell me what she had actually told anybody, and demanding that I come home.

Yesterday, she seemed to kind of snap out of it, realize to some extent what all she had done, and started apologizing profusely.

So that was my week last week. I have not been over to the house in that time. I saw her yesterday at a public park. She is not doing well. I am not really angry with her. I think she is really unwell. She claims not to remember much of the past week. But I am also pretty scared of what she might do the next time she has a meltdown. I don't feel safe going over there, but I also don't feel safe leaving her there by herself to cause more chaos. I don't know how to get her the help she needs, but I feel like I can no longer play the role I've played in trying to keep her from exploding.

I am meeting with my attorney tomorrow. Clearly what I've been doing hasn't really helped. I don't see any alternative other than to file for divorce and deal with the fallout as best I can.

I'm not sure there's really a question here. I feel like I've under-reacted to pretty much everything she's done in the past. I don't want to under-react to the past week. Going after my family and my career and floating false domestic violence charges scares me a lot. When she's at baseline, I don't think she would do any of that, but she's not at baseline very much these days. I'll get advice on how to legally protect myself as best I can. I struggle with wanting to try to be there and help or keep a lid on things or control things as best as I can. I feel like the time for that is over, but that's hard. I don't want to live in a world of threats anymore, and I need to protect myself, but I worry about what happens to her.

Any thoughts appreciated. 

[I Am Redeemed]

I'm sorry, stolencrumbs, that has to be really difficult and sticky having your whole family receive those messages, as well as your boss.

I guess it's no doubt that none of them believe what she said about you. Still, it's got to be scary, being a man, to think that she could possibly continue with false allegations about you.

It's also really frustrating that the crisis line seems to never result in getting her any help. It's clear that she is very disturbed. Did she stop seeing her therapist and taking the medication? It seems that she is uninterested in getting any help for herself that requires accountability for her own recovery.

What does your therapist say about this?

My first thoughts were that she thought if she could get you fired, you would lose the opportunity to move onto campus. However, it appears that this behavior extends to others in a vindictive manner, since she did it to your sister-in-law. I'm sure that lashing out at her just added a ton of fuel on an already raging fire

Have you encouraged your family members to block her from contacting them? If you do decide to file for divorce, do you think that will set off another round of group texts? Legally speaking, though, those texts that were sent to so many people in your family should be saved as documentation of her instability.

[Cat Familiar]

I’m sorry that you’re dealing with such an extreme response, and it definitely highlights the fact that you need to protect yourself from her.

So often people feel responsible for mitigating the consequences of their partner’s mental illness. It starts in minor ways through covering up dysfunctional behavior so that family and friends don’t think poorly of one’s partner then, as you well know, can lead to trying to repair more seriously damaging acts.

You’ve tried your best for years and had a disappointing experience with mental health services in your area. She’s upped the ante by putting your career at risk. I think you’ve been very generous of spirit in dealing with unimaginable difficulties.

I encourage you to put your own interests front and center immediately. It may feel strange to do so, since you’ve been discounting your own needs for so many years in order to take care of her. However, now she’s left you no choice.

 

Cat

[stolencrumbs]

Redeemed,
Happily, yes, no one I know believed her. I also contacted the police and told them what was going on.

She found a new therapist in January or February, and seemed to really like her. She was going three or four times a week. That's never happened before. But then they shut down due to covid and when they opened back up, her T had retired. She has not looked for anyone else.

She has an assortment of medication, but I have no idea what she takes and what she doesn't. I know she has stockpiled beta-blockers as her preferred method of suicide. She takes anti-anxiety medicine, and maybe an anti-depressant, though historically she stops taking that if she gains any weight. She stopped the anti-psychotic they put her on in the hospital as soon as she could.

I have not seen my T since the events of the last week.

I have encouraged my family to just block her number. They don't want to. There seems to be some element of watching the car crash at play here. And yes, I think filing for divorce will absolutely precipitate another meltdown and whatever that might entail. I do have all the texts and emails (I have five years worth of those), and for the past week I have recorded our phone conversations (I'm in a one-party consent state).

Cat,
Your last line is what resonates with me the most. At some points in the last week, I felt some sense of relief because it felt like, well, that's it. I don't have any other choice here.

[formflier]

stolencrumbs


I'm so sorry.  Do you happen to have any recordings or proof that she has backed off her allegations/apologized?

I am meeting with my attorney tomorrow. 

Very wise.

Please discuss this idea with him.  Consider having your family NOT block her. (hang with me) 

Has she stated via text that she apologizes for the allegations? 

A few thoughts?

1.  It may help your case if you have tons of family that can say she makes these weird accusations, then retracts..then makes them again.  Yes it sucks for them to hear it but ask the L if "evidence" helps.

2.  If she hasn't apologized, ask the L if one of your family members asking for the apology and then your wife giving it would help if she ever tries to bring back the accusation.

3.  (maybe not an L question) but if she apologizes to you, yet won't apologize/retract to the text group...then it's not a real apology/she's planning to bring it back.

4.  Ask about legality of recordings.  Even in a two party consent state (if you need her permission) ask if you are better off to get in trouble for recording if it proves something else not true.  (if it's a one party state..you are all good)

Please be kind to yourself!

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

I will echo Cat that your wife's current behavior is leaving you no choice except to take legal means to protect yourself.

I'm sure your lawyer's advice will help set some boundaries.

[formflier]

I'm sure your lawyer's advice will help set some boundaries.

And perhaps more importantly some strategies for legally protecting yourself.

We all realize this is likely "emotional thinking" on her part, but it doesn't matter what he reasons are if "it sticks" to you.

So...figure out what communication from her (proof) could help you.  Then figure out how to go about getting that from her.

2 separate things though. 

1.  Does it matter legally.
2.  How you go about getting it.

Best,

FF

[stolencrumbs]

stolencrumbs


I'm so sorry.  Do you happen to have any recordings or proof that she has backed off her allegations/apologized?



Very wise.

Please discuss this idea with him.  Consider having your family NOT block her. (hang with me) 

Has she stated via text that she apologizes for the allegations? 

A few thoughts?

1.  It may help your case if you have tons of family that can say she makes these weird accusations, then retracts..then makes them again.  Yes it sucks for them to hear it but ask the L if "evidence" helps.

2.  If she hasn't apologized, ask the L if one of your family members asking for the apology and then your wife giving it would help if she ever tries to bring back the accusation.

3.  (maybe not an L question) but if she apologizes to you, yet won't apologize/retract to the text group...then it's not a real apology/she's planning to bring it back.

4.  Ask about legality of recordings.  Even in a two party consent state (if you need her permission) ask if you are better off to get in trouble for recording if it proves something else not true.  (if it's a one party state..you are all good)

Please be kind to yourself!

Best,

FF

There has been a bizarre "retraction." She claims that she meant that I beat her heart and spirit black and blue, and that the photo was an external representation of her internal pain. I don't know if she really doesn't remember, or if she is just trying really hard to avoid owning up to what she did. In context, she sent the text with the claim that I beat her black and blue first. I texted her separately and asked that she please not make false claims about me. She then texted the picture to the group chat.

She has not retracted or apologized to anyone else. I don't know the conversations she has had with her step mom and dad.

I've been very attuned to what she has said and hasn't said to me. And she has definitely not said that I didn't do that. She has said some things in the neighborhood, but she won't just unequivocally say that I have never touched her. That makes me suspicious of future intentions.

I'm in a one-party state. So I'm good there. Thanks for the questions. I have plenty, but there are probably more I need to ask.

[formflier]

Did she apologize to you via text or in person (verbally). 

Do you have a recording of the bizarre apology.

Dude...that's weird.  I'm so sorry.  Again...please redouble self care efforts to stay centered.  You know she will do weird stuff.

Best,

FF

[stolencrumbs]

And perhaps more importantly some strategies for legally protecting yourself.

We all realize this is likely "emotional thinking" on her part, but it doesn't matter what he reasons are if "it sticks" to you.

Yes. This is what scares me the most. In her current state, I would not worry about her making false allegations or trying to ruin my career. But she claims to not even remember what she does. There is no way she can promise me that she won't do those things when she has her next meltdown.

I have obviously been concerned about her mental health for a very long time, but I feel like she is genuinely losing touch with reality. She seems to think the crisis responders were from my University and we're investigating her claims. After sending some threatening emails on Sunday about getting me fired, she sent a text telling me what Thai dish she wanted me to pick up for dinner. Her grasp on reality is thin right now. And I have a lot of compassion for and understanding of that, but it is very scary.

[stolencrumbs]

Did she apologize to you via text or in person (verbally). 

Do you have a recording of the bizarre apology.

Dude...that's weird.  I'm so sorry.  Again...please redouble self care efforts to stay centered.  You know she will do weird stuff.

Best,

FF

It was on the phone, and I have a recording.

Yes, so very weird.

[GaGrl]

Yes. This is what scares me the most. In her current state, I would not worry about her making false allegations or trying to ruin my career. But she claims to not even remember what she does. There is no way she can promise me that she won't do those things when she has her next meltdown.

I have obviously been concerned about her mental health for a very long time, but I feel like she is genuinely losing touch with reality. She seems to think the crisis responders were from my University and we're investigating her claims. After sending some threatening emails on Sunday about getting me fired, she sent a text telling me what Thai dish she wanted me to pick up for dinner. Her grasp on reality is thin right now. And I have a lot of compassion for and understanding of that, but it is very scary.

The term "borderline" refers to mental illness that lies on the border between neurosis and psychosis. You are right that your wife's grasp on reality is tenuous at best. It isn't taking much to tilt her into full scale psychosis (which can explain some of her memory problems).

[stolencrumbs]

Well, my attorney got caught up in court and had to push the meeting until Friday morning. I did talk to him briefly and his advice was to stay away (actual quote was "stay the f*** away from her"), record any interactions, and always have in the back of my mind whether I have an alibi for any given time period.

To Cat's point, it is very weird and hard for me to think like this. My wife was keeping it together when I talked to her yesterday, and tried to be understanding about not wanting to see her. She was less so today when I talked to her, and noticeably more agitated. Essentially said that she had a lot of emotions that it would be good for me to defuse before she explodes again. I agree with that, except the part about it being up to me to defuse them right now. She claims to have made some therapy appointments, but was vague about that. Said she might not keep it together tonight. Right now I just want to make it to Friday morning without more chaos, but that seems unlikely.

[formflier]

You might want to check into a "dashcam" for your car.  Make sure it does time and date and lots of memory.

That should provide lots of evidence about where you did and didn't drive.

Also make sure your google location is on for your phone and make sure it saves where you have been.  Make sure you get in the habit of going in every few days and verifying the locations.  It will show you everywhere you have gone in a day. 

That way if you need to remember going to  a store or something like that, you can maybe trace back and find credit card information which will let you know time of transaction.

Then you will have dash cam data, google data and perhaps some other data to prove where you were or were not.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I do hope that you follow your attorney's advice and stay the f*** away from her, as far away as you can.

She's proven herself to be dangerous on many levels now for a number of years. That she wants to rope you into her chaos is frightening.

As an adult, without conservatorship in place, she is legally responsible for her own actions. She has stymied any and all attempts by you to seek care for her in the past.

You have saved her from consequences before. Now you need to save yourself.  

[GaGrl]

She wants you to come over to defuse her? I don't think I've ever heard quite as blatant a demand for someone else to be responsible for another person's emotions.I

Yes, Cat is absolutely right. Short of conservatorship, she is assumed to be competent and can make her own had decisions. If that decision is to defuse negative emotions by ramping up to violent behavior -- whether directed at damaging her house or self-described -- you are back to looking at the same choices you had 6-8 months ago. Do you call 911 and let them assess her? Does she end up doing a short hospital stay? Is she in need of conservatorship? Can she fake it til she makes it appear she is competent?

[Goosey]

In the maelstrom of it, the stripping winds of insanity you are.
It has to be lived through to believe. I believe you. 
Disengage. Don’t chase.
Time is free. (Kinda, really nothing is free)
Silence is bliss.


 

[stolencrumbs]

She wants you to come over to defuse her? I don't think I've ever heard quite as blatant a demand for someone else to be responsible for another person's emotions.I

Yes, Cat is absolutely right. Short of conservatorship, she is assumed to be competent and can make her own had decisions. If that decision is to defuse negative emotions by ramping up to violent behavior -- whether directed at damaging her house or self-described -- you are back to looking at the same choices you had 6-8 months ago. Do you call 911 and let them assess her? Does she end up doing a short hospital stay? Is she in need of conservatorship? Can she fake it til she makes it appear she is competent?

Yes, it is very explicit. Either I come over, or she goes off the rails. The fun part is that for months she would tell me she didn't want me to be there if I was only there to keep her from melting down. And then if I didn't come over, she would tell me I needed to because she couldn't handle being there alone.

Yes, I think those are my options. If I'm aware of threats, I'll call crisis response. But she's an adult. I've suggested and tried to get her help more times than I can possibly count.

[I Am Redeemed]

Yes, it is very explicit. Either I come over, or she goes off the rails. The fun part is that for months she would tell me she didn't want me to be there if I was only there to keep her from melting down. And then if I didn't come over, she would tell me I needed to because she couldn't handle being there alone.

Yes, I think those are my options. If I'm aware of threats, I'll call crisis response. But she's an adult. I've suggested and tried to get her help more times than I can possibly count.

All of those statements sound like emotional blackmail and trying different tactics to elicit a desired response from you (which is, I assume, that you will be focused on continuing the relationship and, specifically, on her).

I know this has to be hard and scary for you, because despite your wish to end the relationship I know you don't want any harm to come to her and it's very difficult to know that it may not be possible to prevent that.

I still watch the news from time to time expecting to see that my ex jumped off a bridge or something. So does his family.

Her claims to not remember are a two-pronged pitchfork, neither of which work to her benefit. Either she really has no recollection, which means she is very disturbed and in need of serious psychiatric care, and also that she is totally unpredictable and cannot be trusted to not repeat the same actions (or worse). Or, she does remember, in which case she is pretending to not remember in order to escape accountability, which is in itself disturbing and also means that she needs serious psychiatric help and cannot be trusted.

FF may be on to something about your family not blocking her. It's their choice, of course, and it may help your case in the long run. Do you know if your SIL has documentation of the communication between her and your wife and her attempts to call her job? That demonstrates that she is willing to do this to other people besides you, which paints her in a pretty unfavorable light.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey SC-

I’m so sorry you’re still having to endure your W’s very destructive behaviors... toward herself, you and now toward your family.  I’m so glad you’ve come to understand you truly are NOT responsible for any of her actions or reactions.

You’ve probably tried this so I’m sorry if I missed it... BUT ... in order to “buy” yourself a few days of peace (maybe even one day), have you ever told her something like “Look, I’m not doing well.  I HAVE to take a day of complete silence, so I’m doing that.”  And leave it at that? 

What would she say?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Cat Familiar]

What happened last night? Did she follow through on her threats?

[stolencrumbs]

What happened last night? Did she follow through on her threats?

She got drunk and sent me 6 or 7 emails. She emailed today to assure me that she didn't email anyone she wasn't supposed to. So mostly things were okay last night. I sat on my porch with a good friend and enjoyed the evening.

Gems,
That is pretty much what I've said to her since Monday. She was understanding of that initially, but now is less so. I should, in her mind, just be over whatever she did last week. She did refer to it last night in an email as a "complete mental breakdown," which seems accurate. She also claims she is going to seek help for her drinking. That would be good. Of course, she was drinking when she wrote that, so who knows. Historically, if I say I need a night and I don't respond to things, she escalates--eventually to suicide threats and that does get me to respond. That's been the pattern for a long time.

Redeemed,
I think you're absolutely right about the two-pronged pitchfork. The conclusion either way is that she needs professional help. I don't think she sees that not remembering things doesn't really make anything better. If she doesn't even know what she's doing, she can't possibly make a meaningful promise to not do it again. My SIL does have the email she sent to her and to her boss. I don't think my family is going to block her. My SIL wants to know what she's saying and wants to be able to protect herself and her family however she can. My mom worries that no one will tell her what's going on if she blocks my W's email/phone number, so she isn't going to. And I have years of evidence of her behavior in the form of texts and emails and recorded calls.

[formflier]

You should have them all "print to pdf" (at least that's the function I use on chromebook) to save emails and texts in an easy format to read and exchanged.

Depending on platform, texts can sometimes be trickier.

Were you able to ask your L whether or not her recanting accusations in an email would ever help you should she make them again.  Common sense says it would, but sometimes the law doesn't follow common sense (at least mine anyway)

Best,

FF

[stolencrumbs]

You should have them all "print to pdf" (at least that's the function I use on chromebook) to save emails and texts in an easy format to read and exchanged.

Depending on platform, texts can sometimes be trickier.

Were you able to ask your L whether or not her recanting accusations in an email would ever help you should she make them again.  Common sense says it would, but sometimes the law doesn't follow common sense (at least mine anyway)

Best,

FF

Yeah, the texts are a nightmare to get off the phone into any kind of readable format. If I need them, I think there are programs I can buy that will convert them into something readable. There are thousands and thousands of them. Probably that many emails, too, but they're pretty easy to download. The volume of electronic communication is staggering.

I have not asked my lawyer that. I have a long list of questions for tomorrow morning. 

[Goosey]

Talk fast to your lawyer. Mine is 400 bucks a hiccup hahah.
Good news if you live in a “no fault “ state and defendant Does not  respond it just goes to dividing up assets.
Drama drops. (I’m hoping).
  My drama has dropped. Just waiting for the courts and lawyers. 
It seems life goes on.
No contact.
Nothing.
Got the kids.
Paying the bills.
Miserable of course.
But not getting smacked around.
I’m a robot.
Pillar of paying bills.
So I feel all who are on the throes of insanity. It’s been maybe a month since no contact. 
  That’s tough in its own
Now it’s just getting ready to accept whatever the courts determine. They don’t care about who done what.
Just numbers.
Ironic.
To tear yourself to shreds for years defending bailing paying out the behind and it’s just a simple ten minute exercise to lose all you tried to provide.
  Finally.
Hope she will be ok. She hates me but I still see her everyday in a likeness. Damn.

[stolencrumbs]

I signed divorce papers today. They'll be filed next week. I dread telling my wife this. I am 100% sure it is the right thing for me, and I'm pretty sure that if she stays alive through this, it will be better for her. But it is going to be messy. And my wife is still trying really hard this week to be on her best behavior, and asking me to come over to the house and see her. That is what I have done for so long. It is thoroughly ingrained in me to show up when she wants me to show up. And I do really want to be there for her in ways that I can. She is really struggling, and has been for a long time. But I don't think I can be there. And I am not going to be there for her as her husband, and I'm pretty sure she doesn't want me there in any other capacity.

[Cat Familiar]

Just as in situations of domestic violence, this is the most dangerous time for you. I hope you can follow your attorney’s directive and stay away from her.

It’s hard when you feel sympathy and compassion for her, but her recent treacherous behavior has shown you how unpredictable and desperate she is.

You’ve tried for years to help her achieve a sense of normalcy and it hasn’t worked. It’s time to be very mindful of your own safety.

[I Am Redeemed]

I'm glad you were able to make the right choice for yourself. That's huge  

Have you considered starting a thread over on Family Law about telling your wife about the divorce? There's a wealth of experience over there you could benefit from, people who have been through very messy and high conflict divorces.

Did your lawyer advise anything about contact with her or telling her about the divorce filing?

I agree with Cat, this could be the most dangerous time for you. She's already exhibited very disturbing behavior. And you are in no position to help her, not the way she wants to be "helped" and not the way she needs to be helped.

[formflier]

Is there someone that can go with you for the first several times that you go back over there?

Big milestone for you!      Be kind to yourself.

Best,

FF

[Goosey]

Staying away when they demand you come see them is very hard.
I finally got the nerve to sent a polite but firm email that although I understood the pain she is in neither of us could afford a situation where we could be arrested or hurt. 
   It was just a true statement.