Another crisis part 3

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=345538.0;all

An update:
H told me his appointment with the second opinion doc got moved to next month. However, he does have an appointment with a weight loss specialty clinic today. I don’t want him taking anything that isn’t approved by a doctor but I’m not sure he’ll listen to me. Still no word from his PCP on the re-run lab work. It was done almost a week ago.

On a new front:
So, SS’s school district is letting parents choose for each child.
Fully in school
Fully remote
Half a week in, half out

H and Ex have discussed it. Ex made it clear she wants fully remote. H said he understood but we may not be able to do that. He’s looking for a new job. And, as the boss, if the governing boards of the church say the staff has to go in, he has to go. No telling what his new job would say. I’m remote (again) for now, but that could easily change. He told her we may be able to make half-time work as a compromise.

Yesterday he and I talked and agreed he’d tell her part-time. Deadline is Friday. So, he told her last night and she replied that she’d already submitted the form and put SS down for all remote.

 

H was upset, to say the least. He’s talked about getting his lawyer involved. Talked about how he’s going to end up losing his job because he’ll have to miss so much work. His we’ll have to spend tons of money on babysitters. I told him not to get ahead of himself because we don’t know what’s going to happen. She made the unilateral decision, knowing very well what our situation is. It’s not going to be all on us. And as long as I’m working from home, he can go in as much as he needs or wants to. We can think things through and come up with a plan for if/when things change.

Apparently there’s a lot he needs to handle with work. A lot of extra stressors and duties. He’s complaining he can’t get them all done because of childcare stuff or his worry about his weight or his stress level.

I said he doesn’t need to worry about child care for now. Focus on what he needs to do.

I don’t really know what’s happening with his work. Part of me wonders if he’s feeling stressed, afraid and in over his head and is using the SS stuff as an excuse. Not for me to say.

We had a good, quiet couple of days. But he’s really all over the map.

[Ozzie101]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=345538.0;all

An update:
H told me his appointment with the second opinion doc got moved to next month. However, he does have an appointment with a weight loss specialty clinic today. I don’t want him taking anything that isn’t approved by a doctor but I’m not sure he’ll listen to me. Still no word from his PCP on the re-run lab work. It was done almost a week ago.

On a new front:
So, SS’s school district is letting parents choose for each child.
Fully in school
Fully remote
Half a week in, half out

H and Ex have discussed it. Ex made it clear she wants fully remote. H said he understood but we may not be able to do that. He’s looking for a new job. And, as the boss, if the governing boards of the church say the staff has to go in, he has to go. No telling what his new job would say. I’m remote (again) for now, but that could easily change. He told her we may be able to make half-time work as a compromise.

Yesterday he and I talked and agreed he’d tell her part-time. Deadline is Friday. So, he told her last night and she replied that she’d already submitted the form and put SS down for all remote.

 

H was upset, to say the least. He’s talked about getting his lawyer involved. Talked about how he’s going to end up losing his job because he’ll have to miss so much work. His we’ll have to spend tons of money on babysitters. I told him not to get ahead of himself because we don’t know what’s going to happen. She made the unilateral decision, knowing very well what our situation is. It’s not going to be all on us. And as long as I’m working from home, he can go in as much as he needs or wants to. We can think things through and come up with a plan for if/when things change.

Apparently there’s a lot he needs to handle with work. A lot of extra stressors and duties. He’s complaining he can’t get them all done because of childcare stuff or his worry about his weight or his stress level.

I said he doesn’t need to worry about child care for now. Focus on what he needs to do.

I don’t really know what’s happening with his work. Part of me wonders if he’s feeling stressed, afraid and in over his head and is using the SS stuff as an excuse. Not for me to say.

We had a good, quiet couple of days. But he’s really all over the map.

[formflier]

As a practical matter, can he turn in form for half time for his child and a note describing the situation?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I don’t know. He talked about calling the school district office to discuss the situation. I really doubt they’ll allow a week-on/week-off schedule. They’re pretty clear on a decision being made and then parents being stuck with it until the end of the semester. (Unless they school has to shut down, of course.) But I’ll ask if he can submit his own form, even if she’s already done one. The online system may only allow one submission per child.

I told him he’s probably not the only divorced parent in this situation.

[formflier]

If they have "joint" decision making (do they?) then at a bare minimum, he should likely put something on file with the school to only accept input with "two signatures" (or something like that).

What a pain...

Best,

FF

[formflier]

So...is it true (have you verified or can you) that he is sending our resumes, going to interviews and all that?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

They have joint everything regarding childcare and decisions.

I haven’t fully verified on every one. I’ve seen him filling out the online applications. And I was here and saw him dressed and either leaving or going upstairs for a Zoom call for the interviews he’s had. Do I 100% know? No. But the history on the laptop shows he was at least searching and looking. And he regularly sends or shows ones he’s applying for.

[formflier]

OK..so there is some amount of reasonable activity to find a new job. 

What kind of jobs is he trying to get?  CEO type stuff?

How long has he had his current job?  What did he have prior to that?

I guess I'm basically asking...is he looking for things "right" for him, below him or above him.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

From what I’m seeing, he’s looking within his range of expertise. Looking at or below current level.

Current job? 8 years. Before he was finance director at another church. Before that, with an accounting firm. He has a masters in business and accounting.

Problem is, he wants out of church work but a lot of people won’t consider him because he’s been doing it so long.

[formflier]

Yeah...

How long since he got MBA?  Or was it a masters but not an MBA?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

He got his masters (I think MBA — I don’t know the difference) right after college. It’s been about 15 years since he worked corporate.

[GaGrl]

There is a lot of non-profit jobs that look like corporate jobs.

[Ozzie101]

He’s applied for some. Had an interview with one a couple of weeks ago — and didn’t get it. Part of the problem is he’s relatively highly paid for non-profit work. He doesn’t have to make the same as he’s made. We’d be fine with less. But it’s still a problem. Partly because when they hear how much he’s been making they assume he won take less. Partly because there aren’t a lot of nonprofit jobs at the moment.

It’s frustrating for him and I get that. I’m frustrated on his behalf. He’s just super-fed-up with where he is.

[Ozzie101]

An update:
His re-run labs all came back perfectly normal. He had an appointment at a weight loss clinic where they prescribed phentermine and said doing things like eating one meal a day or doing regular water fasts are good and healthy.

He was relying on my opinion on the prescription and I just told him it’s his choice. But, also, I think he should get the full OK from his PCP and pharmacist before taking anything.

That seems to be tabled for now.

His work is still a problem, as usual. The new boss lied to him about a meeting. H called me raging. Lots of his “Nobody does that to me and gets away with it” and “I’m going to rip him up one side and down the other.”

My experience tells me that he’ll cool off and handle it rationally. (Yelling at the new boss doesn’t strike me as smart.) But the things he says and the way he says them (“that won’t work for me,” “do they not get that they can’t do that with me?” “people don’t get to do that to me because I won’t put up with it”) just rub me wrong. He just sounds bombastic and narcissistic sometimes. Not very attractive and it’s harder for me to empathize.

[Cat Familiar]

Phentermine is a schedule 4 drug, with potential for abuse. It's given to people who are obese, not folks who just want to lose a few pounds.

Side effects include the following:
Increased heart rate
Tingling or prickling feeling in hands or feet
Dry mouth
Sleeplessness
Nervousness
Constipation

Not appropriate for patients with heart disease, high blood pressure, an overactive thyroid gland or glaucoma.

I'm wondering how it would interact with BPD.

[Ozzie101]

Yes, that’s part of my concern. That’s one reason I told him I wouldn’t give it my support (which he seems to need) without his doctor and pharmacist saying ok. I also pointed out that it can increase anxiety, which he already struggles with.

I fear it could cause a very negative change in his behavior. Then again, most drugs he takes (any kind) don’t have much impact on him at all — or do the opposite. Drowsy Benadryl makes him wired, for example.

That they would prescribe it to someone who’s nowhere near obese and recommend what sound to me like unhealthy eating habits doesn’t fill me with confidence.

[I Am Redeemed]

Cat is right. Phentermine is amphetamine-based and produces the same effects as adderall. High potential for abuse and can cause mood changes that resemble the effects of a cocaine or meth user.

It doesn't sound like this clinic has very good credentials. Likely they will prescribe it to anyone willing to pay.

Definitely get a doctor's opinion!

[Ozzie101]

I’m with you. Not sure what he will end up doing, though. Right now his weight is an obsession. Well, it’s usually an obsession, but lately it’s of paramount importance. He keeps trying to talk himself (and me) into thinking it would be safe to try even without a doctor. I’m not budging. Just like with his job and with his family situation months ago, he seems to be relying on me to tell him what to do.

It’s getting very tiring, all the disappointments. I get that it has to be hard for him — the difficult job situation, constantly applying for jobs and being rejected, his weight up, pandemic stress.

I think where it gets more difficult for me is I tend to be a “go with the flow” type. I can get upset or bothered by things, but I’ll put it in perspective and move on or act rationally. Everything to him is like a third-degree burn or a massive insult.

That’s a part of BPD. I get it. I do. And I try to stay sympathetic/empathetic. But it really does get exhausting and frustrating.

[Ozzie101]

So, this morning and early afternoon he was fine. Then he went out to the pool. Mid-afternoon he called angry about his boss. I validated, etc. A bit ago, he texted wanting to do something fun for dinner and I said that was a great idea. Then some time later I start getting passive-aggressive texts.

Instead of panicking or twisting around trying to placate him, I ended up deciding to order a pizza. Told him I was doing that and there would be plenty for him.

Maybe I’m being wrong. Maybe I’m being insensitive or unsupportive. But I don’t want to play the PA games. I want pizza. I want a quiet evening. He’ll probably be on a tear when he gets home but I will at least be fed and somewhat rested.

[Cat Familiar]

Interesting that he has unusual reactions to drugs. My husband has a similar response to Benadryl and if he smokes pot, he cannot get to sleep.

You want pizza, you eat pizza

You can’t bend your life around trying to accommodate his whims. It won’t work and you’ll become resentful.

[Ozzie101]

Thanks, Cat.

It was a rough night — though not as rough as some we’ve had. I don’t think he’d been drinking.

He was more clear on a few things:
My parents were very close to two families (with a couple of other auxiliary families) who go to the church where H works. One wife is the infamous “your parents’ friend.” Over two years ago, something happened and there was a falling out. My parents aren’t even clear on what it was. Long story. Anyway, they’ve never felt terribly close to the friend in question. My dad, though, was close to her husband. They’ve sort of patched things over but it’s not the same. Things are more distant.

Initially, H was mad because he felt like my parents could do or say something.

Now, he believes that the friend is taking out the personal problems on him. He also claims she’s told him she hates my family.

Has she? I don’t know. Is she taking this out on him? I don’t know.

He believes that’s partially my parents’ fault and if they hadn’t let things fall apart, he wouldn’t be suffering for it. I told him that if she is taking it out on him, that’s undoubtedly wrong — but it’s also her decision and hers alone. He disagrees.

He also believes my parents should have nothing more to do with these people. I told him that if they continue to associate with them and if she’s responsible for his losing his job, etc., then I would understand if he didn’t want to be around them and I would communicate it. But I will not tell them what they should do and I will not threaten.

Also said that sometimes you have to yell and be cruel and make people cry to get your point across. I disagreed.

We talked more this morning. He was more reasonable. Talked about how he focuses on himself — always has — and pours or gets mad if things don’t go the way he wants. He knows that’s not right.

He wants to be able to come to me. I told him I want that too, but that the pattern needs to change.
1) Something sets him off
2) He ruminates
3) He sends passive-aggressive texts aimed at me
4) He calls and launches right into snapping about my family, me, blaming, lashing out
Eventually, I learn what happened but by that time, I’m already upset and defensive and I have very little left for the kind of support I want to give.

He acknowledged that. We talked a little about how to avoid getting on that train in the first place. But it’s an ingrained pattern and will take time.

It doesn’t take away some of the bug problems: his inability to handle stress, his taking everything personally, my defensiveness, my inability to believe or trust what he says.

[formflier]

How can you change the pattern?

Think back to last night, what decisions/actions could you have taken that would have altered the pattern?


Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I’ll give that some thought. On initial thought, the only things I can think of:
1) Ask what happened and how I can help. From experience, that wouldn’t go over well. By the time I’m aware there’s something going on, he’s usually spoiling for a fight. Any questions like that lead to him blowing up at me, saying nothing is wrong/nothing happened. Just the same problems: that my family is an issue and I never support him.

2) Exited early. Told him I love him and I can tell he’s stressed and upset. That I care and a want to help. If he wants my help or input, tell me. If not, I’m going to go to bed/watch a movie/read a book.

Neither of those would end well. He wants to lash out and empty out some of the anger/fear/hurt on me. If I leave, it’s abandonment. But I really can’t think of another approach that would protect me and our relationship.

Last night I didn’t get triggered by the passive aggressive texts about dinner. I stayed upbeat. I let him know what I was doing and that he was welcome to join me. Kept it all pleasant, direct, straightforward. So, I think that was good. It was an early warning, though, for what was coming. I knew it was a sign that he was tipping over. Maybe I should have just calmly, gently but firmly told him I was going to stay in a hotel.

[GaGrl]

Your comment that he wanted to dump his frustrations on you is very much what is wearing you down. He does want to dump -- multiple emotions, not just one or two -- on you. He wants you to feel his emotions for him.

It's not possible in the long-term for you to bear that degree of emotional burden in the marriage. It will wear you out.I

Does he see, in rational times, that he is making you responsible for his emotions?

Is it possible for you to agree with him on a "safe word" or even a physical signal that he is ramping up to a level you won't stay around to participate in? And that it means you'll leave the room, the house?

[formflier]

He wants to lash out and empty out some of the anger/fear/hurt on me. If I leave, it’s abandonment. But I really can’t think of another approach that would protect me and our relationship.
 

From his point of view..it's abandonment.

However from your point of view it's self protection/boundary.

And...from the "world's" point of view your leaving is giving him a chance to learn to self soothe.

I'm going to be so bold as to say it appears you are making a mistake from looking at it PRIMARILY from how he will "feel".

Please look at it from what he "needs".

Does he need to learn to mature and self soothe?

or

Does he need a wife that can soothe him better?

Which one of those two "schemas" have you been using for a long time (or trying to use)?

How has that been going?

Therefor?


Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

We do have a safe word and an agreed plan. Unfortunately, it’s never worked well. He either:
1) Follows me
Or
2) Stays away but stews on it and by the time I come back he’s even more worked up. I know a big part of the point is for me to get away to recharge, but basically it just gets me rested for a more intense Round 2.

I’ve never left the house. At this point, that may be the best course to take when it happens again.

He knows what he’s doing isn’t right. I’m not sure if we’ve discussed the emotional dumping component but that’s a good thing to bring up.

[Ozzie101]

Very good point, FF. I need to see it from what he needs, not what he wants or thinks he needs.

He’s very immature, emotionally, in some ways. Very much like a spoiled or entitled child. Someone who can’t see the difference between want and need and lashes out at whoever is (in their eyes) preventing them from getting what they want.

My trying to soothe or serving as the emotional dump does not work — at all. And it is unsustainable.

[formflier]

My trying to soothe or serving as the emotional dump does not work — at all. And it is unsustainable.

I'm going to challenge you here. 

Not only does it not work...but it is similar to you always fixing your kids shoes, or buying him velcro instead of struggling with laces.

Eventually they will get the laces...if you get out of the way.

See my point?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Absolutely. And I’ve had that very same discussion with H about SS9. (He and his Ex baby SS and will bend over backwards to avoid upsetting him. Guess who was the one to teach him to tie his shoes, make his bed, make a PB&J? )

Of course, I didn’t really connect the dots transferring the same philosophy to H. But you’re very, very right.

[formflier]

It seems like when hubby is "level" or "baseline" that you guys can have productive conversations about "his stuff".

I really like the idea that GaGrl raised about using a safeword or something like that.

Here is the deal.

We know that he like to use you for support and soothing.  (and that's ok as long as it stays healthy and he doesn't blame you and your family).

So..

He comes home upset.

You give attention, validation and support. 

He starts to blame

safeword or some choice is made. 

1.  he retreats from blaming and gets your support and presence.
2.  He continues to blame and you exit

Wash rinse repeat throughout the night. 

However, once you exit...stay gone.  It seems like he baselines by the next day..right?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

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