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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: SD14 potential HS unenroll? Not sure what to do.  (Read 1281 times)
kells76
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2020, 09:12:47 AM »

Excerpt
Frosh orientation is going on right now online, so we will see later today if SD14 did it.

She told us on Friday that she did not go to orientation, and, according to the online parent portal, is both (a) still enrolled in Local HS, and (b) was marked absent/unexcused yesterday. Saved a screenshot.

We also showed her the classes she was enrolled in, and the bell schedule (way less online time than she had thought). Apparently she hadn't even seen them yet. She said "Mom is working on the letters to unenroll me".

No emails, texts, calls, or letters from Mom about me helping the kids with math.

Hoo boy.

Feels like I'm watching something in slo-mo.

I might suggest to DH that he save the screenshots and... "bug" Mom with his concerns for SD14's education every day? Once a week? I don't know.

SD12 at least is actually in school.
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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2020, 06:50:12 PM »

They never stop. SD14 has to be confused. I understand how  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) off you were. Education, as far as I’ve learned, is a big thing with the courts. This is erratic behavior by bio mom. She sounds like a person that simply needs control and will use her kids to feel it. Like a needle or a hit. This might be a window for court. Even though court sucks.
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« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2020, 06:16:26 AM »

I think it's a control thing too. Just my 2c. But she also knows your Achilles' heel- the kids ( and yes, it's good you are invested in the kids) which is a potential supply of drama.

Also sounds like she's trying to maintain her persona, and goes with whatever fits that image without thinking it out or taking responsibility for it. Sure, homeschooling the kids is a valid choice, but the parent who makes that decisions is responsible for the home school. This is a disconnect. I am so sorry and don't know how to solve this dilemma either.

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« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2020, 03:07:28 PM »

I’m just now entering the family court arena, so I’m very green on the subject. But isn’t it frowned upon to mess with the child’s routine after it has been established because it can cause disorientation and upset in the child because their minds rely on constants? Imagine being 14 and losing the consistency of your friends.
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kells76
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« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2020, 03:40:10 PM »

Excerpt
Education, as far as I’ve learned, is a big thing with the courts.

That's what I've learned here, too, especially through david's posts. So when I heard about this stuff from the kids,  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) went up for me. That this could be something big.

Excerpt
sounds like she's trying to maintain her persona, and goes with whatever fits that image

Absolutely. And yeah, with control mixed in, plus a "what's best for MY life" kind of thing -- I think her image is of a "wonderful, warm, free household, taking spontaneous trips to nature, unconstrained by schedules or limitations". Even if that isn't best for the kids... it's best for HER.

Excerpt
without thinking it out or taking responsibility for it.

She doesn't take concrete responsibility for much of the "daily grind" stuff and will also gripe and blame when there's any inconvenience to HER time in doing it. That's what I'm wondering about with the "I’ll be in contact kells76, with you directly, about support with Math especially for SD14 but possibly for both kids if this is something you are open to" email. That she said she'll be in contact with me, but hasn't (too much work), and I wonder if she'll blame me for not telling her "if I'm open to it". I kinda think I already did when DH emailed "Please reach out to kells76 directly about math, she’d love to share ideas with you" and "kells76 looks forward to hearing from you".

So at this point in terms of not overfunctioning for her, I plan to talk to SD12's teacher directly (thank God SD12 is in full time actual school, though remote) about math help for her. For SD14, I guess I'll ask if she has HW. Hard to avoid word getting back to Mom via SD14 if I do business just with SD14, but not much I can do there. SD12's setup is better, I think we can completely bypass Mom with her main teacher.

Excerpt
Sure, homeschooling the kids is a valid choice, but the parent who makes that decisions is responsible for the home school.

Yep. I keep checking SD14's online attendance record with the local HS, and she's been unexcused/absent for 3 days now. Part of me hopes that Mom just completely drops the ball and SD14 is recorded as truant (that would be 10 days, I believe). It's not that I want SD14 to be hurt, but I don't want it to get up to the limit of absences and then Mom magically withdraws her in the nick of time. And Mom has "homeschooled" before... but not AFTER having them in the public school system.

Excerpt
Imagine being 14 and losing the consistency of your friends.

So most of her friends are going to the other local HS. Mom missed the enrollment switch deadline, or knew about it and didn't do it. Although a lot of this would be legally stale by now, I think it was finally this year that it all sunk in, how jerked around the kids have been.

SD14: homeschool thru 1st grade, homeschool co-op 2nd-4th, Mom pulled her out 5th grade because DH got a job at the co-op; back to co-op 6th grade (once DH's contract was up  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) ), public school 7th-8th grade, was going to be local HS 9th grade and then this plan to "homeschool" a couple of weeks before school started.

Excerpt
But isn’t it frowned upon to mess with the child’s routine after it has been established because it can cause disorientation and upset in the child because their minds rely on constants?

I wonder if it would be a change in circumstances. I kind of think yes. But in a way JNChell we are legally pretty "green" too... it never went to court, but "only" got close. I think an agreement was reached either 1 or 2 days before the trial date.
...

Had another talk with DH yesterday. In a way, this whole school scenario isn't really about school for him... it's about if he'll keep relying on Mom for info, and being super anxious and worked up when she (unsurprisingly) doesn't give him any. And if he'll see situations about the kids in a binary -- his perspective yesterday was "either I fight this, or I don't interfere. I can't decide where SD14 goes to school". I agreed with him that it's stressful, and that yes, we don't decide where she goes to school. He also mentioned that at the end of the day, it doesn't truly matter to him what grade SD14 is in, and I agreed -- in a sense, it's no skin off my nose whether she's in 9th grade or 7th or 11th this year or next. But I told him that I think it's a false choice that he can either fight it or do nothing, that I saw a different way to deal with stuff. He was kind of worked up and when I asked if he wanted to hear any ideas, he was like, Only because I'll seem like a  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) if I don't say Yes please kells76, tell me your ideas.

My thinking was that his anxiety about the nebulousness was kind of the core of things. I agreed that when things are undefined, and it isn't clear what to do, it's really stressful. So (long story short) I suggested that we stop hanging our hopes and decisions on if/when Mom gives us info. That there's a LOT we can do without waiting on her. And maybe our to do list could be really specific and detailed, instead of the nebulousness that comes from Mom. That it's about showing professionals that we care and are concerned, and getting information, and then letting that information help us decide what -- if anything -- we do next.

I also said that my hope was that we could "stay in the zone" [i.e. talking about stressful kid stuff] long enough to make a detailed plan. I didn't say this last night, but to me at least, that is what hamstrings us. We start talking about some stressful kid situation, and we're barely out of the starting gate before DH gets swamped. So, he gets all the anxiety with no resolution. Hopefully if we can "stay in the zone" together longer, we can actually make some plan.

He did ask me to come up with the to do list I suggested. So I did in excruciating detail for calling the local HS attendance office to express concern, down to "check off this box when done, put this paper in the folder, then you are done for today". When I get home I'll see how that went.

This whole school scenario feels like something big happening, but it isn't clear yet. DH did say yesterday that SD14 needs to see Mom for who she is, and this could be part of it. I agreed. My hope for us is that between "do nothing" and "fight it" we can at least gather info, and get it on record that DH is concerned and in contact with professionals. Beyond that, it's kind of about DH (in a sense) -- what he is willing to do.
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kells76
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« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2020, 03:52:47 PM »

OK, here we go from DH:

Excerpt
To whom it may concern,

I have noticed on Online Attendance Program that my daughter SD14 has been marked absent for the last 3 days. Mom has custody and has been talking about home schooling SD14 this year, but I see SD14 is still enrolled at Local HS. I am not being included in these decisions, but I am concerned about any lasting repercussions that the absences may have for SD14. If you have any information regarding the situation, or if there is anything I can do, please let me know.
Thanks,
DH
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« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2020, 03:58:58 PM »

SD14 has a solid relationship with you. Maybe have a girls night out with her. Be subtle. She might open the floodgates or be withdrawn. Either way, the two of you had a night out and she will come away it from knowing how much you care about her. I mean, she already knows that, but maybe she needs some space, and I mean literal space to be able to open up. Are there any big, wide open spaces in your area where you all can just walk around and appreciate the surroundings? Maybe pack some food, or grab a bite on the way back home. I’m saying try to get her away from everything for a few. It’s 50/50, but it might give you some insight into her current thinking. Not to mention being a kick ass stepmom.
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« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2020, 01:28:00 PM »

Excerpt
it might give you some insight into her current thinking. Not to mention being a kick ass stepmom.

Yeah, I need to find a way to do that. She seems pretty triggered by digging into the HS plan for this year... and I struggle with the "poking" and "digging" and so often just revert to "having a chill time together". I feel like I drop the ball on the "heart to hearts"... a lot. Maybe that's another thread.

This back from the school:

Excerpt
Hi DH;
I have sent an email to Mom, inquiring about her educational plan for this school year.
At this time I do have her enrolled at Local HS, and have not heard from Mom.
Thanks;
Registrar
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« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2020, 07:24:53 PM »

My H also gets flooded when having to deal with custody issues.  He wants to do what's best for SD, but he doesn't always know what that is, and he freezes.  My pushing him to make a decision or take action makes it worse.  It felt like we were constantly rehashing the same things and never getting anywhere.  The problems weren't solved, SD was suffering, and our marriage was suffering.

I had been trying to give him background and let him take the lead, because I did not want to overstep my bounds - he's the parent.  He admitted that in many situations he has no idea what to do and is paralyzed trying to figure it out.  I finally figured out that I have to present concrete plans to him, and then ask him if he has enough information to make a decision on what to do next.  Or "What other information do you need/want?"

He actually wants me to give him options and let him choose between them.  Sometimes it's baby steps (like your to-do list).  And sometimes when I present him plans, the only options he gets are "do you want to send this email, or do you want me to write it and send it in your name?" 

Your H may benefit in the long run from more of that kind of approach too.  I think you are as good as I am at playing devil's advocate and giving pros and cons of lots of options.
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« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2020, 08:27:59 PM »

WSM, Hi, I see you there  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

Let me just catch myself up a bit.

Latest email from Local HS attendance office:

Excerpt
Mom responded and does intend to home school this year.

I have withdrawn SD14 from Local HS at this time, however I do keep her on my attendance radar until her enrollment is confirmed by School District. Mom is aware, and is working on this piece.

Thanks again.

So not an issue with the HS any more, but in 6 school days it will be truancy with the district. We'll see if Mom squeaks it in.

...

DH talked with SD14 this morning. So, apparently, the reason I haven't heard back from Mom re: math is that... she wants this other person to teach/tutor SD14 in math. It's someone who 110% buys Mom's ideology -- same person the kids talked about as "will teach us coding" and "is a public school teacher". DH's theory is that Mom wants to block both of us from any kind of educational role in the kids' lives... she's that insecure. Can't have the kids learning from us, or having positive teaching experiences. The only ones who can teach the kids are Mom, Stepdad, and their vetted list of dogma sharers.

SD14 says Mom really wants her to do some kind of blog about her year. SD14's words were apparently "Mom is really gung-ho about it". I guess not SD14, who (thank God) is very tech averse and does NOT want any social media.

The only thing it sounds like SD14 is actually doing so far is listening to a podcast and writing about it. Mom "is trying" to get Stepdad and one of his friends to teach SD14 philosophy -- which was DH's degree. Can't have DH or kells76 encroaching -- must take over their skill sets and passions, so they can't share with the kids.

No mention from SD14 of science. Not surprising; that's my job.

It is worrisome this whole isolation of SD14. DH wonders if Mom is trying one last attempt to keep her 100% at home (and under Mom's control) this year. It's tricky, too, because while DH thinks that there's no way SD14 will complete anything close to a freshman year, there's no "failures" to go off of yet. So she kind of has to fail this year for there to be something actionable -- is his thought.

Gotta take dinner out of the oven -- but that is where we're at. I'm just sad for SD14... and for me. We would talk math for like an hour every day for 4 months. It was our thing.
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« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2020, 08:31:03 PM »

Excerpt
I finally figured out that I have to present concrete plans to him, and then ask him if he has enough information to make a decision on what to do next.  Or "What other information do you need/want?"

That's a good idea.
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« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2020, 09:10:05 PM »

That’s actually a good idea for most men under pressure. Pragmatism. Don’t be mean, just be up front, factual and honest. Given the circumstances, your husbands are feeling a certain amount of fear and uncertainty. Their children are the focus here and they’re scared of what might happen. Consider that they’re dealing with women that have gone out their way to make their lives a living hell through their children.

From a man’s POV, this is solid support from a SO.
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« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2020, 05:02:24 AM »

Reading this makes me wonder if something has to happen to call attention to the situation by the schools. This will be exceedingly difficult due to the pandemic- some students may not have access to internet as easily as others, and academic performance is impacted by so many factors. I think schools are erring towards leniency academically. Colleges are as well as some are letting go of testing requirements like the SAT as testing sites were closed down. So 4 years from now, it is possible that they will not be looking seriously at her freshman year grades due to this situation.

This isn't a reason to let go of her education, but it does present an opportunity for her BPD mom to have an influence that would not ordinarily fly under the school radar.

I think once this pandemic is over ( hopefully soon) and school is in session again there will be many children needing some catch up academics.

My take on BPD mom is that this is about control and enmeshment. Adolescence is a time of differentiation and separation - and BPD parents tend to see children as extensions of themselves- there to reflect them, not be their own persons. Seems like mom is doing that.


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kells76
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« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2020, 11:51:59 AM »

Excerpt
it does present an opportunity for her BPD mom to have an influence that would not ordinarily fly under the school radar.

That seems to be her theme this year -- using virus-related fears or changes to try to pull the kids away from us. A golden opportunity.

So, in a sense, it's nothing new. The structure of what she's doing is the same as it's always been. The differences are: why she say she's doing what she's doing, and where the kids are at.

Where the kids are at: SD14 is an overfunctioner and has believed it's her responsibility to make sure she doesn't transmit the virus back and forth. She is less enmeshed with Mom & Stepdad this year, though. SD12 is totally over the mask stuff and wants to hang out with friends all together. She is more enmeshed with Mom and especially Stepdad this year. So, SD12 would be up for anything, unless she felt that urge to be with Mom/Stepdad. SD14 wouldn't be up for anything, but it would be because of feeling like it's her job to keep people healthy.

Excerpt
I think once this pandemic is over ( hopefully soon) and school is in session again there will be many children needing some catch up academics.

I guess I see it as a "yes, but" thing. Sure, there will be kids who fall behind. But just because other kids might be behind, doesn't mean it's OK for Mom to build her plan around SD14 being behind. I agree with you -- it's Mom trying to leverage happenstance stuff to bolster her own plan and desire. "Oh, other 9th graders won't be ready for 10th grade? Then you don't have to be, either!" There are plenty of adults who could help SD14 have a successful remote public school freshman year. In our case, there is absolutely no reason for her to be behind. She's not sick, she has tech access, no learning issues.

Excerpt
My take on BPD mom is that this is about control and enmeshment. Adolescence is a time of differentiation and separation - and BPD parents tend to see children as extensions of themselves- there to reflect them, not be their own persons. Seems like mom is doing that.

Yeah, you're right. Especially with SD14's comment that "Mom is really gung-ho about me doing a blog". It's Mom acting out this ideal fantasy of how SD14's life should go.

...

All that being said, I am moving ahead with trying to help SD14 with math. I'm just not dealing with Mom, who can contact me if she wants (unlikely). I let SD14 know this past weekend that no matter what was going on with math, I'd be happy to help, and she said she'd like that. I asked SD14 yesterday if she needed any math for the week, and she said that'd be great, because "they're still figuring out the math curriculum". So I sent a bunch of review worksheets, and I'm talking with her teacher from last year about getting either the same book or the next one in the series. I'm also checking to see, because of remote learning, if SD14 can "audit" with that teacher's class this year (the teacher instructs a couple of levels, and runs a group that has 8th graders but would be SD14's math level). The teacher is fine with it as long as the school is.

I don't want this to put SD14 in the middle, so if you guys see issues with this, please let me know. I don't want to build a triangle or put pressure on SD14. I'm sort of proceeding like "I just can't imagine anyone would have any problem with me helping you! I want to help and support you, and I haven't heard anything otherwise!"
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« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2020, 11:54:00 AM »

Literally as I was writing that, this came in from Mom:

Excerpt
SD14 let me know that you have sent her some math review to tide her over until she has a math class underway.
I have you on my list to reach out to this week about how you'd like to be involved. The review you sent looks pretty comprehensive and a good continuation of what Indy was studying last year. After discussing options with her and looking at Khan Academy's options, SD14 would much prefer to continue through the book she was working with last year and finish it with you. My thought was if you could procure the Book and decide on a pace together that would be great. Currently we are working for 3-4 hours Monday-Friday morning and she has plenty on her plate so if there was maybe daily homework of 20-30 min duration that would be great and then maybe a "class" with you Wednesday's and Friday's? Or if you have other free time and would like to fit a Math class with her in at some other (non-visitation) time just let me know and we can work something out. Currently the only scheduled classes she has are with Friend on Friday's at 11 am and with me Wednesday mornings at 8:30. She will also have another class with Stepdad on Monday or Wednesday at some hour but the time has not been set for that class as she's currently doing the readings to prepare.
Let me know if you have ideas/questions and we can brainstorm. Thanks so much for reaching out and wanting to be involved. So far she seems off to a pretty solid start!
Best,
Mom
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« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2020, 07:18:38 AM »

Regardless of how she set this up, I would run with it. It's not just math she will be learning. Remember, you are a role model for her and even a little bit makes a difference.

I know I have posted before about the other mothers I encountered growing up. ( my father's family, my friends' mothers). They were not able to intervene in a large way ( I can see why from the posts on this board) but still, just the normal things they did that mothers do went a long way because, I could see the difference.

They didn't speak about my mother or say bad things about her. They just acted like themselves around me. I got to see how other adult women acted around their spouses and children and how they acted with me. It wasn't any specific action. It was the absence of dysfunction and drama in the ordinary things- shopping, cooking, just having a conversation.

To me, this is an opportunity. Maybe BPD mom thinks she succeeded at putting the math on you. Yes, you will teach her math. But consider she's going to learn more than math from this encounter and you don't need to do anything more than to just be yourself- in fact - this is the best way to be as she will learn from observing how you act with her and others.

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« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2020, 09:11:13 AM »

Hey Notwendy;

Excerpt
Regardless of how she set this up, I would run with it

That makes sense. I think something I've learned from these boards is that what's really important is what I choose to do, no matter how anyone else interprets it. So, Mom may think that she's "roped me in" or can "dump" all this responsibility on me, or that she's "tricked" me into doing something. But if I've already planned to do it, it doesn't matter what she thinks about who's pulling the levers.

It IS all very "repainting the past" in an obvious and yet unprovable way. Suuuuurrrreeeee... I bet talking to me was on her to-do list. And she just hadn't gotten around to it. EYEROLL. But like above... even if she hadn't emailed me, I'd still be sending review sheets and helping SD14 with math.

It's kind of like -- she has this mindset that "things can't happen in SD14's life unless I have made it so". There's no room for other people to have independent interactions, apart from her management. So she is rewriting this whole deal as "she was so caring and planned it all". But whatever.  Not in my control.

Excerpt
To me, this is an opportunity. Maybe BPD mom thinks she succeeded at putting the math on you. Yes, you will teach her math. But consider she's going to learn more than math from this encounter and you don't need to do anything more than to just be yourself- in fact - this is the best way to be as she will learn from observing how you act with her and others.

Thanks for the perspective and encouragement. DH did caution me about not letting myself get roped into Mom's deal too much. I guess the tightrope will be balancing doing what SD14 needs, which may include some involvement/interaction with Mom, with me just doing things how I plan them, regardless of any fits Mom may throw or interpretations she creates.

And yeah, ultimately, it's true; the biggest issue isn't the content of what is being taught (math), but how this whole scenario is being played out -- the how, not the what. How can I 100% stick to my guns, as it were, and move forward focusing on what SD14 needs no matter what, without being a jerk, or petty, or manipulative, to anybody.

...

This is what I sent back:

Excerpt
Hi Kids' Mom;

Thanks for getting in touch about math for SD14. Just wanted you to know I got your email -- I will do some more thinking this week about scheduling, timing, and curriculum, and my goal is to be back in touch with you by this Friday at the latest with some concrete steps forward. I like the idea of using the [previous school] text, too.

Good to know that Wednesdays at 8:30 and Fridays at 11:00 are already booked; that helps with planning.

Talk with you by Friday;

kells76

Didn't want to overcommit or send more info than necessary, or solve her problems for her (like, buying the math book). Especially because I've been talking to SD14's math teacher from last year to see if she can sit in on the teacher's 9th-grade level math class. It's a teacher SD14 loved, and if it's all remote learning, class size is less of an issue. Teacher gave the OK, so now it's just up to the school admin. That would be awesome, because I don't have a lot of morning/day time available -- it'd mean teaching math on my lunch break. Doable, but not optimal.

Just waiting on hearing back from school admin before deciding what to do.
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« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2020, 05:53:12 AM »

Yes, I hope you feel encouraged that you are making an impression for the long run even though there is day to day drama. A bond with a parent is a sum of all these times. It comes from the connection.

My BPD mom was not a hands on mom. She did delegate the day to day things to others, and my dad did a lot of it. The result is that I was more emotionally connected to my father than I am with my mother even though there was dysfunction in the family.

BPD mom manipulating or "dumping" the chores of parenting on you and your H may seem like she's getting her way but it's a win for you two and a benefit for the children both in the immediate sense but also in the long run. So yes, you will teach "math" but there's more to it.
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« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2020, 01:42:36 PM »

Just found out today... guess who was unenrolled from HS and was NOT enrolled as a homeschooler  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Also learned that our local HS does not recognize any homeschool credits at all, unless they're earned through an accredited homeschool organization.

Currently emailing with the local ed district homeschool coordinator, and getting a paper trail that DH and I are concerned about what this long period of not being enrolled will entail for SD14.

Why am I even surprised...
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« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2020, 02:02:18 PM »


Has any sort of independent testing been done to see where this child is actually at academically?

Hopefully there is a couple years worth so a trend can be sorted out.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2020, 02:19:28 PM »

Has H thought any more about going back to court to ask for custody?  You have pretty good evidence by now that mom is not able to make good decisions about their education.
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« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2020, 02:38:55 PM »

Hang in there Kells!  You are making a difference in your SDs lives.  As NotWendy notes, it's not just math you are teaching.  You and DH are modeling to them as well. 

I like the idea of baselining where SD14 is in math by getting an assessment.  I'm looking to do the same thing with my partner's children outside of what the on-line schools are doing.  Assessments help tailor support as well as gives feedback for progress (or lack of!).  CoMo 
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« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2020, 02:44:39 PM »

Hi FF:

Excerpt
Has any sort of independent testing been done to see where this child is actually at academically?

Because of her mindset and personality, she is capable and on track as far as I can tell... but the longer this year goes on, hard to say. She is doing Algebra I with me and "everything else" with Mom/Stepdad. She is not doing any science this year and I do not know if she is getting any kind of grammar/writing structure. I think Mom/Stepdad's approach is "she is already amazing and advanced so we don't have to teach her anything, she'll just kind of get it on her own, so we will "teach" what we want her to know" which is "philosophy" and "psychology".

Our school district tests homeschoolers at the ends of grades 3, 5, 8, and 10, so unfortunately she has missed the "tracking" tests. Definitely a change from when I was homeschooled here -- standardized tests at the end of EVERY year.

I think if she were to get standardized tested now, she would look "OK", but again, at the end of the year... hard to say. Probably still "OK" compared to other students, but compared to where she'd be if in an actual school/education setting... probably behind.

And I say this as someone who had a great homeschool experience, too. It's not the homeschooling itself that's the problem, it's the "how" and "why", same as public/private schooling. The "how" and "why" for SD14 is worrisome.

Excerpt
Hopefully there is a couple years worth so a trend can be sorted out.

Ah... yeah, oh, this is interesting.

End of 3rd grade: was in local homeschool co-op, so should be a record.

End of 5th grade: 5th grade for SD14 was when DH got the job with the homeschool co-op, which was the 1 year that Mom pulled the kids out of the co-op. So, no idea if there is a record.

End of 8th grade: in public school, so should be a record.

...

Hey WSM:

Excerpt
Has H thought any more about going back to court to ask for custody?

Well, he has said that he has wanted to wait to get more data this year before doing anything like that. And this is new info today about the non-enrollment. We're with the kids this weekend, so probably after this weekend DH and I will need to talk. He hates the idea of getting legal stuff going again and shuts down pretty hard, so... IDK... may need to bring it up in MC so there is a "cushion".

Excerpt
You have pretty good evidence by now that mom is not able to make good decisions about their education.

This is where I'm interested in "devil's advocate" type discussion... so even in 2020  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) with education kind of in upheaval for everyone's kids... this would still count as "good evidence"? My suspicion is that Mom will play the 2020/remote learning card of "oh, it's just SO complicated and new this year... would you really ding me, a working mom, for one little mishap?" And she would probably also lean towards "Well, that's just paperwork, and what's truly important is that SD14 is still learning/advancing/doing amazing, so that reflects well on me"

Do we really have something?
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« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2020, 02:55:02 PM »

Unfortunately 2020 has provided plenty of reasons for kids to fall behind in school so I think it would be hard to identify the issues with mom as a reason.

Honestly, as I recall, it was also difficult to do with my mother as she'd appear sweet and charming to any school officials who might have had any concerns about us in school. We mostly did well, ( a reflection on her) but sometimes didn't have homework done due to chaos at home. Of course it had nothing to do with her, Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)   sarcasm here.

It still seems as if whatever structure or influence you and DH provide, BPD mom tries to undo. For whatever reason, she needs to take control of things and not do something your way.

I know it's tough to do this, but it's also a constant source of conflict.
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« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2020, 03:28:42 PM »


Do we really have something?

I don't think you do.  And even if you did, courts are so clogged and backed up that it would likely take another school year to sort it out.

As a practical/pragmatic matter you would likely have better luck working tools and nudging back towards school and structure.

Gather whatever data you can.

Note, we have homeschooled before and are kinda doing it now (all virtual instruction for kids) and it's a lot of work. 

Best,

FF
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« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2020, 05:03:21 PM »

Excerpt
I don't think you do.  And even if you did, courts are so clogged and backed up that it would likely take another school year to sort it out.

Right... it seems like one of those "be right" vs "be effective" situations that I always tell other people about  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Just interesting and weird that the one time we finally get "pretty good" evidence that Mom is not managing education, is the one year when it probably won't count.

That being said, I now have an email thread where the local school district homeschool coordinator says she has triple checked enrollment, SD14 is NOT in there, and:

"she is truant from the public school and within their jurisdiction for enforcement of the compulsory school attendance regulations"

Well.

So I guess there are two parallel tracks going on.

One is the documentation/data gathering. Question on that: I have expressed that "this is surprising news", "DH and I are concerned about what that entails for her", "our last understanding was that Mom unenrolled her from Local HS and was going to enroll her as a homeschooler", "Mom has tiebreaker on education so how can DH and I support SD14", "what issues do we need to be aware of here", and "DH and I will talk about how to communicate to SD14's mom about this".

Coordinator said to contact Local HS for how to proceed and I said DH and I will make that happen.

Anything else I should get documented in this email chain?

The other track is SD14's education. What I gather from Mom's house is just like notwendy described:

Excerpt
Honestly, as I recall, it was also difficult to do with my mother as she'd appear sweet and charming to any school officials who might have had any concerns about us in school. We mostly did well, ( a reflection on her) but sometimes didn't have homework done due to chaos at home. Of course it had nothing to do with her,  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) sarcasm here.

So that's where I'm wondering if DH and I just keep doing "whatever we want" to try to get the kids educated, no matter what goes on at Mom's house. NB I am now HW help for SD12's math as well, got that coordinated with SD12's teacher. I think I'm seeing this "2nd strand" as where FF's suggestions of "work the tools & do some nudges" would come in. Maybe this is an example: I'll be taking SD12 to some volunteer stuff weeknights, and I emailed Mom to say "I'll be there at X time to pick her up, and it'll be important for her to stay on top of school so that we know that volunteering isn't adding too much to her schedule". Maybe a nudge?

...

So, yeah, mostly right now looking for what else to add to the email for documentation purposes (strand #1). Because Mom doesn't know that we know yet, there probably won't be many changes to how we all interact over the kids' actual learning (strand #2)... yet.
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« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2020, 07:15:13 PM »



Do you have it documented that you guys are not in favor on this course of action.

Also that you guys are worried about "enforcement action" being taken against the child and the parents.

Might be worth asking how she plans to avoid this.

Best,

FF

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« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2020, 09:40:58 AM »

Excerpt
Do you have it documented that you guys are not in favor on this course of action.

"course of action" being... that Mom unenrolled SD14 from Local HS and is homeschooling? Or, that Mom unenrolled SD14 from Local HS and has not filed official homeschool enrollment paperwork in a timely fashion?

Excerpt
Also that you guys are worried about "enforcement action" being taken against the child and the parents.

Again just seeing if you are suggesting this for an email thread to Mom, or to local school officials.

Excerpt
Might be worth asking how she plans to avoid this.

How Mom plans to avoid the enforcement action?
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« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2020, 10:08:44 AM »


Yes to all.

I don't think you should hand feed Mom.  As in I don't think you should hand her the precise problems and the precise solutions as you see it.  She has gotten this far by going against your wishes/desires/decisions and is using her tie breaker status (do I have that term right?) to overrule you guys...do not save her from herself

So..clearly document that you think in person is better and you are disappointed and concerned with the current course of action.

Also that you are disappointed and concerned you have not heard from her a plan to avoid potential consequences.

As far as what you tell the school district.  I would tell them what you know and be clear about what you do not know.  I would be clear that you are concerned about the child's education and that you are doing what you can do improve it.  Be clear that you have no real decision making power here and that concerns and consequences should be directed to the decision maker.

Switching gears

It's also important that you continue to role model for this girl and provide whatever educational support you can.  (others have made this point as well...big ditto from me)

How does all this seem to you?  How do you think hubby will take this?  Does hubby communicate with school or is it just you?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2020, 10:16:06 AM »

Note:  If you have not clearly documented your objections yet, it is probably wise to do so in context of many of the new studies coming out talking about school safety.

My wife is school teacher, so I get a front row seat to how they are handling it.  And I think, by and large, school is safe for kids.

If my wife wasn't a teacher, I'd likely be pushing for in person instruction for my kids.  We have kids in every school (elementary, middle and high) and the current rules would have caused many moves from in person to virtual due to "exposure quarantine".

While I'm not a fan of the virtual school, I'm much more a fan of consistency for my kids and now the only quarantines we have to worry about is for my wife.

As an example, let's say high schooler gets exposed at school and is sent home for 2 weeks..well..everyone else in our family would get sent home as well, including my wife.  Then they go back and there is an exposure at middle school (yep..everybody back home again).  

The way we have it now my kids are the same and my wife teaches virtually from home when she has to quarantine.  (which has happened a time or two)

The schools have a pretty tight tracking system for kids and teachers..so when there is a positive and/or exposure...they quickly generate a list of who has to stay away.

Best,

FF
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