Surprise at mediation meeting

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I'm curious how you decided to reach out to him, vice expecting him to reach out to you regarding setting a time for pickup?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

I'm curious how you decided to reach out to him, vice expecting him to reach out to you regarding setting a time for pickup?

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

There's no need to respond to the email. He's just congratulating himself on doing what he should be doing -- parenting -- and letting his mom and you know it. Yes, hiking might be a dog at you, but he may just not have any ideas of his own.

The kids need to be taken out of the communications.

[livednlearned]

I agree with Gagrl that there's no need to respond.

While it is easiest for me just to ignore this email, I wonder if it is the wisest thing to do. Or should I try to somehow validate/support this behaviour? Any thoughts on this?

You also get a pass for doing what makes you feel healthy right now.

Some people can compartmentalize the highs and lows of their ex's emotional rollercoaster and kind of pretend that yesterday's f bombs and takedowns are separate from today's normal messages.

It can take a while to get there, to truly detach.

Not having a consistent sense of self means he will flip flop back and forth with these behaviors. If you feel you're getting the hang of that without any cost to your health and well-being, that's one thing. But if you feel it hollows you out or undermines your strength, that's a sign to take care of yourself first.

[Marianne-11]

Maybe I shouldn’t have contacted him. I waited until the last moment when I really needed to know if he was going to get the kids for his weekend or not, and at what time. The only time I contacted him and it was really just a simple neutral question without anything emotional.

I do want to get kids out of the communication, I just haven’t figured out how to make that happen. I am not using my son to reply to my ex, I just say to him something like ok, thanks for sharing and I’ll reply to dad directly. But I have no control over my ex in this matter, unfortunately.

I haven’t responded to the email, it does feel like the healthiest choice for me. I just want to be in peace, and feel like I am doing ok when I don’t have to be in touch with him and deal with his rollercoaster. I guess I have some work to do still in detaching. I mean how does somebody go from practically nc to sending this kind of email.

[formflier]

I suppose my "theory" is that contact with him is hard (understandably).  So, limit it to the max possible.

If he expects you to have a child ready for pickup, isn't it on him to communicate his desires...vice on you to drag those out of him?

What if he really had no plans and because you reached out to him he decided to "mirror" an activity that you enjoyed?

We'll never know, but you can use this experience to influence your decisions...going forward.

Here's my vote to limit contact/responses.  

Best,

FF

[Marianne-11]

FF, you are right about everything you say. And this was definitely a learning experience for me, once again. He needs to also learn to take responsibility of these basic things, only way there seems to be that I don’t do these things for him.

Thank you everyone who helped me yet again to make sense of this and navigate the situation. I can’t tell you enough how much your support means to me 

[formflier]

  And this was definitely a learning experience for me, once again.

Yep...you didn't do anything wrong this time.   You did lots of stuff right.

The biggest thing you did right was paying close attention to your feelings, especially ones that were icky.

You've got a team behind you here at BPDfamily and rooting for you.  We helped you examine those feelings, especially as they related to things you can control and it looks like you have some ideas about what you may feel better about going forward.

That seems like a recipe for success. 

What do you think?

Best,

FF

[Marianne-11]

It does feel like a recipe for success indeed  . Might be a marathon ahead, but I am determined to make it. It’s been tough so far, but the thought of achieving balance, peace and joy one day keeps me going.

[kells76]

Great stuff from the group. I'm on the same page -- that kind of "me me me" email from him doesn't need a reply. There was nothing about child logistics in it, right? Just as LnL said, an "applaud me for parenting" type thing? Yeah, not your job to do that for him.

...

Here's something you can think about for next time he's supposed to pick up the kids:

Instead of doing an "ask and wait for an answer" style email ("hey, are you still planning to pick up the kids at 3pm? Please let me know ASAP!"), what do you think of doing a "decide and inform" style email? That could look more like:

"Kids will be ready for you at 3pm on Friday like we decided. Let me know by 3pm Thursday if you want to do something different. If not, I'll assume you'll be at Location at 3pm. Cheers; Marianne-11"

That way you're not waiting on him in order for you to move forward with your plans. The ball is in his court to make any changes and inform you if so. Plus, you have "built in" to that email that not hearing back from him is confirmation. This can be important if you have a stonewalling/radio silence ex. A heads up though, DH's ex does seem to get triggered by "I'll assume X if I don't hear back from you by Y". So it's not a magic solution all the time.

[ForeverDad]

Here's the opposite scenario.  Right now stbEx is doing more parenting than his norm, right?  Odds are that at some point he will begin slipping back into his comfort zone of less parenting.  He may start to miss exchanges.  So the approach to say "If I don't get a reply then I will arrive at the exchange location at this time" would have you and the children sitting and waiting for a no-show.

If that happens then what do you do?  Most orders expect the child to be ready and present, you can't just say to yourself, "Ex didn't confirm and was a no-show at the exchange last time so why bother going when he might not come anyway?"  However, in most cases you can't take it upon yourself to decide when to follow the order and when not.

It's not the problem now but as time passes he will slip back into his past patterns.  Ponder how to address that in the future.  Maybe nothing could be included in the exchange clauses now, courts are a bit wary of added what-if clauses.  But you may need to craft a solution when that occurs.

[Marianne-11]

Hi Kells! The email had nothing about logistics, it was only "see how great I am with the kids". My initial fear was that is he so delusional/in denial that he thinks we're good and he'll soon try to come back home (similar experiences in the past with him). The other option I can think of is that he is just showing off for whatever reason. Either way, felt icky. Even scary, like why can't he just let me be. I haven't and will not reply. My worry was also that if he wants a reaction from me and does not get any, will he somehow take it out on the kids. But kids are back and that fear luckily is not relevant anymore. And thank you Kells for the good idea about how to communicate about the exchanges in the future. I think it is well worth trying and see how it goes. 

And thank you ForeverDad, I think I will have to be prepared for a no-show from him in any case. And you are right, this was his first weekend with the kids after nearly a month of very little contact with them (practically no contact with S4). It is very likely this increased interest in parenting is just a passing phase, unfortunately. 
 

[livednlearned]

DH's ex does seem to get triggered by "I'll assume X if I don't hear back from you by Y". So it's not a magic solution all the time.

Same in my situation, kells76.

My ex didn't go through tender cycles so there wasn't a whole lot of hot/cool after we split. However, I did try to butter up my language while doing what kells76 is suggesting.

"I understand sometimes it's hard to coordinate when you have all those demands at work. I'll plan to do x if I haven't heard back by y to limit my questions about pick-up."

n/BPDx had a healthy streak of narcissism so any hint about his importance seemed more effective than drawing attention to competence on my part.

[Marianne-11]

"I understand sometimes it's hard to coordinate when you have all those demands at work. I'll plan to do x if I haven't heard back by y to limit my questions about pick-up."

n/BPDx had a healthy streak of narcissism so any hint about his importance seemed more effective than drawing attention to competence on my part.

Good point! Certainly some narcissim can be seen in my ex’s behavior as well, so some buttering up might help.

Oh boy, I feel so much better prepared for the next exchange situation. Thanks so much to everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

[ForeverDad]

It is very likely this increased interest in parenting is just a passing phase, unfortunately.

It's had to say precisely what his motivations were.  What if it also was partly for him to appear to others besides you that he's a nice guy.  As in, "my kids are fine with me, M11 just overreacted."  Sure, how he treats the kids now and how he treated you then are two different things but his lawyer, for one, would want the history muddled so he wouldn't so easily appear like a total loser/abuser.

In case I hadn't mentioned this before, the courts have a tendency to separate a person being scrutinized into two persons, an adult (in a relationship with you) and a parent.  Yes, you could have a protection order from the ex and yet the ex's parenting could have lesser restrictions.

That's what happened in my case.  After my then-spouse was released Monday morning at municipal court — it didn't handle parenting issues but did give me a TPO — her next stop was domestic court where she filed for her own TPO and included our preschooler with her.  That got CPS involved and when I appeared in court to address it, the CPS rep stood and stated he had "no concerns" about me.  So the magistrate excluded our son from her TPO, set a parenting schedule and continued the rest of her petition to another hearing a month later.

[Marianne-11]

ForeverDad, you're right, he might just polish his image as a parent for future purposes. Still I wonder why he needed to include me in this email, could've just sent it to his mother. Or maybe he tries to claim later on that I am not cooperative/am hostile because I don't respond.

And thank you for sharing your experience. I have also figured the courts might have this approach. So much to think about that I am feeling a bit overwhelmed right now. Luckily I will have a meeting with the new lawyer next week, so that will be a step forward at least.