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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: How do you know what your boundries are?  (Read 1025 times)
dindin
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« on: September 13, 2020, 12:28:52 PM »

Hi guys, I'm quite proud of 7 days no contact, so wanted to share that with you Smiling (click to insert in post) Everyday the highs and selfsoothing periods are longer and the depression and separation anxiety gives way to just plain grieving. Although it's still a pretty much a roller coaster, and a long way to go.

I didn't want to start a new topic, but I do have a question that I want to ask you that came to me while doing a review of my relationships: Boundries.

I am aware that in the past I used boundries to control other people and change their behaviour, as opposed to use it as protective measures. I own that mistake and wish to change that in myself. But how do you know what your boundries are?

On a very basic level, they aren't hard to know, like: no physical harm, no verbal abuse. But I really get lost on a more nuanced level. A lot of articles and books I read on the topic say that boundries should be derived from one's deep feelings and accepted as such. But how do I know if these are correct and are not, for example, an emanation of my codependency or narcissistic traits? Like jealousy or possesiveness?

Let me give you a real example. Every single one of my relationships has started with a similiar type of conflict: women I was dating were in contact with their ex lovers, fwb, or boyfriends even months into the relationship. And I absolutely hated it, it made me feel insecure and unimportant. When Iearnt about it, one way or another, I would simply say: I cannot be in a relationship like that, and walk away, with them chasing after the r/s and saying how sorry they were and that I should give them another chance. Which I did to, more often than not, find myself in the same situation months or years later. Every single r/s I had had this conflict. And now I really don't know if it is a reasonable boundry to not have your potential or actual partners have contact with former lovers and bf. Or not to be flirty with other people. Or to lie about it. Is it normal to expect complete transparency from your romantic partners? Or is it unreasonable, and hence the secrets?

How do I know if that need is not jealousy or possessiveness? Cause whenever that happens my partners would eventaully complain about me being controlling in that regard. I understand that my anger and manipulations with these boundries were not healthy. I need to work on that. But how can I investigate these feelings better so I don't repeat the same mistakes in the future? Are these reasonable boundries, how can I place them in a healthy way. Because even when I was completely honest and talked about how their lies or flirting hurt me, these were not taken seriously. How do I know if I am not overreacting? Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 09:46:44 PM by once removed » Logged
JNChell
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2020, 05:10:50 PM »

That’s a great realization. Self awareness is the number one aspect to healing. Along with that, we have to kick through the mud. It’s a process that isn’t linear. You’ll feel different emotions at different times and it’s very important for you to understand that. At times I felt like I was going crazy, but I was simply shifting through my emotions. This is serious stuff and you’re doing a great job at pursuing it. Leaning in to it. Pat yourself on the back and stay the course of learning and healing.

I’m not qualified to discuss how you used your boundaries, or what boundaries meant to you at that time.

You have said plenty to make it understood that you were raised under the fist of narcissistic abuse. That’s a general term, but I understand you.

You bring up a very good point. The literature. Be careful on what you read. While you read, trust your gut. I’d like to recommend a book. “Radical Acceptance” by Tara Brach.

It sounds like you’re very confused. You’re safe here. Whenever you need to talk, bring it here. Somebody else is always ready to talk as well. Everything is going to be ok.

Relationships like ours start out in certain ways. You’ve recognized your pattern. Maybe try to take a break from dating until you figure out why that pattern keeps going. Thoughts?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 05:16:23 PM by JNChell » Logged

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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2020, 05:32:36 PM »

Hi guys, I'm quite proud of 7 days no contact, so wanted to share that with you Smiling (click to insert in post) Everyday the highs and selfsoothing periods are longer and the depression and separation anxiety gives way to just plain grieving. Although it's still a pretty much a roller coaster, and a long way to go.

Thats a good start...The white noise can be deafening at times. What are you doing that is self soothing? Trying anything different?  Acceptance takes a while and is a process that requires patience. Not a strong suit of mine back in the day. Get to the 30 day mark and it starts to become habit. Self boundaries.....thats progress.

I am aware that in the past I used boundries to control other people and change their behaviour,

How do you think you used boundaries to control others?  Typically these r/s are boundary-less. The behavior is accepted by all.

But how do you know what your boundries are?

They are what you want them to be........ Morals should play a part I suppose. Maybe these should change as we become wiser? To be implemented through communication in all our relationships with as much honest, we can muster, on that given day?

Like jealousy or possesiveness?

maybe ask yourself if your doing something for a selfish intention? These both appear to fit in this category. Objectivity seems to fit. Emotionally available people should be able to work through this, relatively easily. I would discuss and if not respected, walk.

Is it normal to expect complete transparency from your romantic partners? Or is it unreasonable, and hence the secrets?

This is why maybe you should be patient at the onset of a relationship? If you think maybe it has potential. Allow it to happen organically. There are many reasons people jump from one relationship to the next. None are good.

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dindin
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 05:56:03 PM »

What are you doing that is self soothing? Trying anything different?
I am trying to just let the time pass. In the past I was always in a hurry, always focused on some project, hobby, or r/s. Now all free time I have after work I spend doing nothing. For example, today I sepnt an hour feeding crows in the park. I also am trying to meditate and revisit stuff from childhood, as most of my memories were buried deep down.

I am aware that in the past I used boundries to control other people and change their behaviour,

For example, when I found out my ex BPD partner was lying about her unprotected sex with someone else at the beginning of the r/s, exposing me to the risk of STDs, I was very mad, and learnt that her friends were pretty much ok with it, even egging her on, so I insisited she limited contact with those friends. That was very controlling of me. But at the same time, I didn't really enforce a boundry on my end in that I tried to convince myself of all the reasons she might have lied about it, and I just let it be. I didn't walk, ever, no matter what happened. So yes, in the end, it was very boundry-less.

Relationships like ours start out in certain ways. You’ve recognized your pattern. Maybe try to take a break from dating until you figure out why that pattern keeps going. Thoughts?
I'm not dating, not planning to start anytime soon. Which is something I did very soon in the past after a breakup. But I made a pact with myself to wait till I get my stuff in order. I also noticed how the more resolve I have for this, the more I notice that people I found attractive in the past have cluster B personality traits. And I don't want to go down that road ever again. So I even need to question why I was/am so attracted to this.

They are what you want them to be........ Morals should play a part I suppose.

When it comes to boundries, I understand that I'm confused. My codependency and narcissism has revealed to me that I am pretty much boundry-less. I have a strong false self that insists on some "rational" boundries, but these were never in accordance with the true self. They were more of my narc dad's voice than my own. And I always struggled to really enforce them and respect them deep down. Hence, my questions. I need to find a way to get these and unhook them from my neediness as the main driving force.

And the books... Yeah, there's a lot of new-agy stuff that I came across while reading on codependency. I just don't buy it.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 06:02:29 PM by dindin » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2020, 09:24:45 PM »

Now all free time I have after work I spend doing nothing. For example, today I spent an hour feeding crows in the park.

What you are calling nothing, is important to me. Nothing like decompressing without alcohol, or whatever.......I do beaches, lakes, parks, ect., have always worked outside. Nothing like nature, its real not fantasy.

I also am trying to meditate

Breathing exercises, another healthy, self soothing activity....Good stuff. I actually studied Vipassana a little. There was literature called " Vipassana in plain English" . It took 8 months....5 minutes a day, for the longest time. As I became more used to it, I spent more time..... I then started seeing signs and low and behold I got to true meditation. To this day I cant totally put it into words. Scared the hell out of me the first time. Then I got to where, I would think I had only meditated for minutes, when at time it would go for hours. Its a cleansing of the subconscious, so to speak. Amazing to say the least. I had a new found respect for my brain. I hope you get there

And I don't want to go down that road ever again. So I even need to question why I was/am so attracted to this.

You would be wise to take some time with you. Dont discount animal instincts in all of this either. We are human.
Its all very new to you right now, so maybe BPD phobia, for now?..........We all show traits of everything, you me, everybody......I still date crazy, hell at my age not much else is left....I go about it, a whole lot different than back in the day. It works for me and you will also find your comfort zone in time.

And the books... Yeah, there's a lot of new-agy stuff that I came across while reading on codependency. I just don't buy it.

Psychology is going to PLEASE READ, just like everything else.....You will find what fits for you and pursue it. Search all avenues for your truth, it will reveal itself. Just as you have started doing. Trust but verify your instincts. in time you wont need to verify. I wish you well, Peace





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JNChell
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2020, 09:35:28 PM »

Keep working and pushing through. You’ll figure it out.see you on the parent board. BTW, feeding birds isn’t nothing. It’s really something. Nature is a good thing. Watching them interact can give us something to think about, if that makes sense. Hope you’re well, man. You asked for a book recommendation. What do you like to read, categorically?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 09:54:19 PM by JNChell » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2020, 06:26:09 PM »

Hi dindin

My codependency and narcissism has revealed to me that I am pretty much boundry-less.
And the books... Yeah, there's a lot of new-agy stuff that I came across while reading on codependency. I just don't buy it.

What was it like feeding the crows, hurried or unhurried, the ones around here will have a sandwhich out your hand before you even see them coming. People feed them so regular that they must have just learned to see a human with food in their hand as "that is food for me"

Just wondering also, who are you codependent on at this moment in time.
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2020, 06:33:36 PM »

Cromwell. What do you mean?

 the ones around here will have a sandwhich out your hand before you even see them coming.

No point in being hurtful. Is something on your mind? I’ll listen brother. We can start another thread. Something is going on and it’s only fair to say what it is.

Look, you have specifically told me what your condition is. It is not ok to discourage other members in their process. You showed up here in pain, they did too. Whatever is on your mind and has you pissed off needs to be talked about. You game? Don’t go self destructive. Try to stay here. Self destructive is a coping mechanism that will never work. Talking with a stranger might.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 06:52:37 PM by JNChell » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2020, 06:54:46 PM »

Cromwell. What do you mean?

 the ones around here will have a sandwhich out your hand before you even see them coming.

No point in being hurtful. Is something on your mind? I’ll listen brother. We can start another thread. Something is going on and it’s only fair to say what it is.

no riddles JNChell Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

genuinely, we have sea birds that swoop and attack on a regular basis, snatch food away.

im doing much better thanks im so happy to be back at work and keep my mind focused on something else.
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dindin
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2020, 06:40:47 AM »

What was it like feeding the crows, hurried or unhurried, the ones around here will have a sandwhich out your hand before you even see them coming. People feed them so regular that they must have just learned to see a human with food in their hand as "that is food for me"

Hahahhaa, I get exactly what you mean. As long as I had my sandwich in my hand and there was enough to share it was cool and blisful - unhurried at that point, but as soon as I got to the part of the sandwich that was just for me, the lil bastard wouldn't let go, had to chase his feathery behind away - defenitely hurried Smiling (click to insert in post) But I just like those birds a lot for some reason, even when they're ***holes, so fun overall.

Just wondering also, who are you codependent on at this moment in time.
Could you expand on this question? Don't really get it. I am still emotionally invested in the previous r/s way past what would be reasonable in grieving and simply missing someone. So I guess I am still codependant as a way of relating to the world.

What you are calling nothing, is important to me.
It's hard do describe. I do meditate everyday, but apart from that I conciously take a pause from any action. I also lost a lot of "fun" for things I did in the past, for example I took great pleasure from going on motorcycle trips, but somehow the joy in that is lost for the time being. Also, I used to be a perfectionist when it comes to one of my biggest passions in life, that is making music. It was paralyzing. Gettnig better at it, practicing, and then disappointment and shame for not getting anywhere were a huge drain on my emotional life for years and years. But now I record any song that comes to my mind on "potatoe-level" equipment, I sing out of tune, and dance to it. It's quite liberating. And I don't plan those sessions I just reach for an instrument when I feel like it.

I also read a lot, and listen to people talk on subjects that just give me that "resonating" feeling. In my r/s I lost that inquisitive self thats sceptically-spiritual. It was a big part of my identity before, so I'm not so sure why I let that fly out the window.

I also wanted to ask something, I think I might have ptsd towards any cluster B behaviour. I have a lot of friends who are not necessarily bad or anything, but just emotionally volatile. And I am afraid I now have a phobia against it. I was just recently talking to my friend, who described an argument with her b/f, and said that she got so angry at him, accusing him of being disloyal when he was simply checking a girl out on the street, that she thought of "revenge", stalked his social media accounts taking stock of all the pictures he liked, and sent him really disturbing stuff to "punish him".

Another female friend of mine recalled how once she threathened her ex with a knife.

Yet another of my friends, who is chronically depressed and in some r/s drama, always hits me up with: "how are you?", and then proceedes to just list their emotions on me. I had the same reaction I had when listening to the knife story.

I just noped the **** out of those conversations. I had god**** flashbacks, like a Vietnam veteran. Whereas in the past I would try to help them sort out their behaviour or emotions.

Another example is a girl who was always attracted to me tried to meet up with me in the middle of the night. I said her straight that I am not interested because it is way too early after my breakup but that I appreciate the invitation. And all would be well if not for the fact that a couple of hours later she would try to manipulate me saying: "you need to relax, and it's not like we are gonna **** or anything, just was hoping we could meet up - you don't have to make a big deal out of it".

Am I overreacting, what is this response that I now feel? Everywhere I look I see some way of emanation of that wrong way of relating I was hooked up in my r/s. Am I just oversensitive now, or did I really surround myself with people who are like this? I don't mean to say that everyone I know is like that, but a lot of, especially women I met, are. Can you relate? I don't want to lose any friends over my oversensitiveness, because they were good to me on some other occasions, but I just can't handle even listening to this stuff, whereas in the past the exchange of such dynamics were the main basis of our friendship.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 06:58:31 AM by dindin » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2020, 09:52:56 AM »


Just wondering also, who are you codependent on at this moment in time.
Could you expand on this question? Don't really get it. I am still emotionally invested in the previous r/s way past what would be reasonable in grieving and simply missing someone. So I guess I am still codependant as a way of relating to the world.


Dindin. Just the usual disclaimer i think important. These are just my views and experience and take it "as is" nothing mofd or less. Just a conversation with the pressuposing that you'd find something helpful or food for thought. I presuppose that's what you are after / other members are after. Im not pushing my views or being conflictual. Tone is hard to convey on boards. Disclaimer over.

Without a relationship there is nothing to relate to. For codependency has to be 2 persons as with every relationship as a minimum. In order to relate requires a relationship. Relating to the world? Very abstract dindin. How is that even possible? Is it possible?

Can you accept that this emotional pain resides within and is yours? Take ownership? Comparing to others is comparing two entirely different relationships and trying to find meaning. Also subjective, biased from all of us who try this.

Missing her and grieving the past, however painful this is. It is your feelings outside of the relationship. Shes not around to soothe or help out, you've done this/doing this yourself. So where is the codependency? How many weeks have you been single and despite the upset, life has gone on, your a grown up adult who prefers company than being alone but this by itself is not code pendency in my view.

I also wanted to ask something, I think I might have ptsd towards any cluster B behaviour. I have a lot of friends who are not necessarily bad or anything, but just emotionally volatile.

But not boring? Even if moments have given what feels traumatic. Just sharing that i craved excitement and my ex and former ones gave it in abundance, it was a depression salve. When the r/s is over so is the disordered excitement but so os the depression, it seems like it just starts because the r/s is over, coincidence. Or has it been carried through, and noe just more noticeable by having to face it alone. Find ways to make ones own entertainment. Lift ones own low mood up. Its a skill its also a different challenge, one id like if you keep for consideration. I had to find out i was depressed and crucially that it is is inherently, exclusively my own issue, not tenuous links towards my bpd ex.

Desires. Wants. Wishes. Preferences. These can be profoundly strong. I believe you may be calling yourself code pendent as a way to pave the way to go back to her, a convenient excuse. Rather than acknowledging other important clinical conditions like depression and how work on this could make a difference to your situ.
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dindin
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2020, 11:34:01 AM »

Desires. Wants. Wishes. Preferences. These can be profoundly strong. I believe you may be calling yourself code pendent as a way to pave the way to go back to her, a convenient excuse. Rather than acknowledging other important clinical conditions like depression and how work on this could make a difference to your situ.

I understand this perspective. However I noticed my codependency before, it isn't an excuse to get back to her. It is a very real misaplication of relating that I felt ever since I was a child. This unfathomable thirst for what I thought was love. It is completely independent of the r/s itself.

Also I am aware of the remains of my hope for my partner, they are there, but I don't really play anything now. I managed to go full no contact, and although I don't really know what I would do if she came back, I am more at peace with her just vanishing from my life every day. I blocked and removed the number, I unfollowed her friends who could convey any info, and it's not like I go on talking with my friends that I'm codependent so that she could "get" it. It's my own thing now.

And as for depression, I simply know I am not depressed. More than a decade ago I was diagnosed with it and went through many years of therapy and medications. I managed to beat it. I know what that state entails, believe me, and now - it's not this. This is fundamental, this is childhood stuff. I know I can get self deluded and unsure of almost any opinion, but depression I do know.

However I really appreciate your point about how living in the "drama" could be a way to stir things up in yourself. To feel alive. I will give it a lot of thought. Thanks a lot!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 11:41:20 AM by dindin » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2020, 06:17:02 PM »

dindin,

sounds like an adrenaline buzz?

was highly difficult for me to discern the difference between "being happy" and being buzzed by adrenal gland hits.

maybe im not the best to answer about boundaries, I dont read the literature on it. knowing what I truly want from a relationship and what I dont want, I cant see these things as anything other than crucial starting points.

stay true to yourself buddy. you have every right to demand that a partner does not contact their exs and make that a relationship rule not to be transgressed. why? because each unforgiving second you spend in that relationship is yours to account for - no one elses life.

I think "reasonable" from others perspectives is muddying the water. Ive met so many characters in life, I sort of wince at the idea of asking some of them on what they thought was "reasonable" and getting tips and tricks on how to go about things.

I have a good friend Ive made, in honesty im glad there is much I have felt envious about him and have not made it a secret. fulfilling relationship, happy life, I wanted to find out so I asked - him. "just be happy, do what brings happiness" his direct answer, nothing more to elaborate on.

what do you think about role-models to use that term you mentioned before. I think they are important, but I think it takes a bit of skill to find the right one, if that makes sense? who we ask the questions from.

Codependency is characterized by a person belonging to a dysfunctional, one-sided relationship where one person relies on the other for meeting nearly all of their emotional and self-esteem needs.
https://psychcentral.com/lib/symptoms-of-codependency/

wheres the relationship?
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2020, 08:29:35 PM »

Hi Dindin.

These are some very important questions you are asking yourself. Speaking as someone who does have Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from my childhood and from a (couple) of abusive relationships with disordered people, I can say that I have asked myself a lot of the same questions that you are.

I also have a history of feeling extremely insecure and jealous of partners who remained in contact with their exes. I realized that it was because I was afraid that there was still some kind of attraction or emotional connection there that I wasn't part of and I believed that it had no place in our current relationship.

Now, part of that, the extreme to which I took it and the degree to which it caused me emotional distress, was out of balance. But, also, I do value being respected in a relationship and I believe that inappropriate contact with an ex is disrespectful.

So, for you, you have to decide what you value. Then you have to determine if the behavior another person exhibits is in line with your values. You also have to determine if you are overreacting due to insecurity. None of that is easy, it took me a long time to sort it out.

So, let's say we define what is "inappropriate contact" with an ex. Seeing them in a store and casually saying "hello?" That kind of thing used to set my nervous system on fire. Was that an overreaction? I think so. What about hanging out with a group of people where the ex is present? In the past, I would not be able to tolerate that either. Is it inappropriate? I guess it depends on the interaction between the two. If I observe that there still seems to be an attraction between them, or flirtiness, then, yes, I would term that "inappropriate" if the parties are in other relationships now.

What about texting/calling/messaging, or hanging out with them alone? Is that inappropriate contact? My values would tell me yes, it is, if the parties are in other relationships. Is lying about any of these behaviors inappropriate? Yes, I value honesty and trustworthiness.

Now. What does it mean to set a boundary around this behavior? Well, boundaries are for you. They protect you and your values, they do not control other people. Setting a boundary with the goal of changing another person's behavior is not the way a healthy boundary works. Do setting boundaries sometimes cause other people to adjust their behavior? Yes, but it is not the end result we aim for when we set a boundary. Why? Because a healthy boundary keeps us cleaning up our side of the street, not another person's. Setting a boundary by demanding that another person change their behavior is controlling, even if it is intended to minimize damage to you. You can only control your own actions. Setting a boundary around a behavior like this may look like taking a step back from the relationship when you see that the other person's actions are not lining up with your values. You cannot make someone respect you. You can choose to protect yourself emotionally, and that may mean stepping away from the relationship.

So, let's say that someone you are dating is having contact with an ex that falls outside of the bounds of "appropriate". You express how this makes you feel and the person still continues the behavior. First of all, the fact that this person is having inappropriate contact with an ex while in another relationship is a red flag. Put a  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) over that person's head. That means that this person does not share the same values that you do. Now. Imagine that you still want to continue the relationship with this person who does not share your values and acts in a way that you feel is disrespectful. That's a red flag for you. Put a  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) over your head.

Can you do anything about the red flag over the other person? No. That is their behavior, their issue, and their responsibility. Can you do anything about the red flag over your head? Yes. You can do some searching, recovery work and healing for yourself so that you can get to a place where you are comfortable enough within yourself to decide that losing a relationship with a person who does not respect you is okay and will not emotionally devastate you.

I'm nearly three years out from my r/s with my ex. I have done some trauma therapy and I have looked at some of the adverse experiences I had in childhood and how they have shaped my thoughts, feelings, and actions as an adult. I will say that I am by no means done with recovery or healing, but I ain't where I used to be Smiling (click to insert in post)

I have not dated anyone since the breakup, and the reason is because I wanted to focus on myself and on being okay with being me before I try to get involved with anyone else. I want to understand my lack of boundaries, insecurites, people pleasing, and other behaviors that caused me over and over again to be attracted to very emotionally and mentally unhealthy people. I have come up with some "rules" for myself regarding future relationships, and they are:

1) I will not compromise my values. I will make choices that honor my values.

2) I will remember that I am in charge of my life.

3) I will set healthy boundaries that honor my values and I will remember that I can choose to move boundaries back anytime I decide that it is necessary. (This means that I can choose to put some distance between myself and another person to protect myself emotionally, mentally, or physically).

4) I will pay attention to the signals I get from my nervous system and not minimize my intuition when I feel that my boundaries are being crossed.

5) I will not cling to any unhealthy connections out of the fear of being alone, because being single is highly preferable to being in a dysfunctional relationship.

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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2020, 09:46:02 PM »

And all would be well if not for the fact that a couple of hours later she would try to manipulate me saying: "you need to relax, and it's not like we are gonna **** or anything, just was hoping we could meet up - you don't have to make a big deal out of it".

Yes you are sensitive right now, dont fight it, respect it......Shes not manipulating, she is surviving. Simply convey your wishes once, and then dont respond to anything. She will learn very quickly. its actually the same thing you have done for a while now, just for different reasons most likely. She most likely fits the mold. We both know this would lead to a deeper attachment and so does her dysfunction. You are probably not the only one (possibly could be) she does this with. Hell, feel good you are wanted, held your boundaries, and one day you feel ready approach people you would rather associate with or at the very least, think you might want to be around. It may even be her, who knows. Associating with people is necessary to human nature itself............. Its taken me 8 years and I now have a relationship that seems to fit. I first had to figure out what really fits for me. Hope it doesnt take you 8 years, but if it does, it was meant to be, because it is. You now appear to be able, to possibly ask the important questions, of possible romantic partners. This being done BEFORE you decide to become attached in any way. Another way to be kind and forgiving to yourself.

I also lost a lot of "fun" for things I did in the past, for example I took great pleasure from going on motorcycle trips

Motorcycles represent freedom and need for adventure, and sometimes escape......Start it up every now and then, to keep it working well. One day this freedom and adventure will come back. You really will need to find new ways to motivate yourself in the future. The more fear you shed, you should realize just how fear based your life has been. Also maybe now, you wont feel the need to escape as much.

Also, I used to be a perfectionist when it comes to one of my biggest passions in life, that is making music. It was paralyzing. Getting better at it, practicing, and then disappointment and shame for not getting anywhere were a huge drain on my emotional life for years and years. But now I record any song that comes to my mind on "potatoe-level" equipment, I sing out of tune, and dance to it. It's quite liberating. And I don't plan those sessions I just reach for an instrument when I feel like it.

This is the difference between surviving and living. Maybe before, it mimicked your life to some degree. Now it appears to be a want, not a need........I have always felt music to some degree. My biological father was a musician, so who knows. Attracted to blues, go figure. Like lots of music and known to dance anywhere. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) It is liberating.....What exactly is potato level instruments?

I also read a lot, and listen to people talk on subjects that just give me that "resonating" feeling. In my r/s I lost that inquisitive self thats sceptically-spiritual. It was a big part of my identity before, so I'm not so sure why I let that fly out the window.

This was the trade off. A loss of you, for these relationships. Im thinking this may not be the case from now on....This would be growth.................Maybe lean more to the inquisitive side, with less skepticism. Especially now that you are seeing your own faults. This should allow you, to be a little more kind and forgiving towards yourself and others. As we all have our faults. We are human.

I understand this perspective. However I noticed my codependency before, it isn't an excuse to get back to her. It is a very real misaplication of relating that I felt ever since I was a child. This unfathomable thirst for what I thought was love. It is completely independent of the r/s itself.

Also I am aware of the remains of my hope for my partner, they are there, but I don't really play anything now. I managed to go full no contact, and although I don't really know what I would do if she came back, I am more at peace with her just vanishing from my life every day. I blocked and removed the number, I unfollowed her friends who could convey any info, and it's not like I go on talking with my friends that I'm codependent so that she could "get" it. It's my own thing now.

And as for depression, I simply know I am not depressed. More than a decade ago I was diagnosed with it and went through many years of therapy and medications. I managed to beat it. I know what that state entails, believe me, and now - it's not this. This is fundamental, this is childhood stuff. I know I can get self deluded and unsure of almost any opinion, but depression I do know.


Very clear and well on your way and hopefully with no time frame.....I wish I knew what depression was. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) I knew its meaning, yet couldnt see it while in it. Mostly between r/s, it seems like, but then from my childhood also. I wish you well, Peace

« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 10:00:24 PM by FindingMe2011 » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2020, 03:06:31 AM »

So, let's say we define what is "inappropriate contact" with an ex. Seeing them in a store and casually saying "hello?" That kind of thing used to set my nervous system on fire. Was that an overreaction? I think so. What about hanging out with a group of people where the ex is present? In the past, I would not be able to tolerate that either. Is it inappropriate? I guess it depends on the interaction between the two. If I observe that there still seems to be an attraction between them, or flirtiness, then, yes, I would term that "inappropriate" if the parties are in other relationships now.

Thank you for the reply. I understand shame and guilt have been blowing some of my emotional responses to boundry-crossing up to 11, and I felt even more guilty then for acting out. Because the emotions got the best of me. And I noticed, even in everyday life, if I just use a split-second reaction to a percieved or real slight or mistreatment: "regardless of who's right, you don't have to feel ashamed either way", the emotions just stop, and more often than not what in the past would simply trigger me, becomes an non-issue or an issue for some other time when I'm cool-headed. It makes all the difference, it's like shame and guilt were overriding appropriate responses and emotions. And this stuff is even evident in everyday life. Crazy, so I know what you mean when you wrote about being out of emotional balance. Is that it?

Also you writing about finding boundries really made my day. I know this might sound like I came from some other planet or something, but I never honestly thought that boundries are mine to set, maintain and change. With compassion, self reflection, emotions, discipline and open heart. I always thought there was some sort of "code" of conduct. I remember whenever I had troubles in my r/s I would call a friend or sister and ask: "do you think that was ok", and I would immediately take on board whatever they were saying. And if not take it fully, they would put enough doubt in me to make me incapable of any decision. And regardless of the intellectual outcome, my actions made it clear that the ultimate goal was the perservation of the relationship. On an emotional level the idea of me being autonomous in all this is comepletely new to me and quite liberating. It also appears to have an added benefit of treating others better if their boundries don't align, it's not like they broke the universal code, but just happen to be on a collision course with my boundries, so I can respect that and compasionatelly-detach with no black and white judgment.

You now appear to be able, to possibly ask the important questions, of possible romantic partners. This being done BEFORE you decide to become attached in any way

Game changer Smiling (click to insert in post)

What exactly is potato level instruments
In sound engeneering and production a lot of people have a fetish for audio quality while recording and mixing. Nothing wrong with that. But to me, and I know to a lot of people in that hobby/business, this becomes the ultimate goal and they spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to get a better mic, guitar or speakers. Once again nothing wrong with that. But at least for me that was a way for my perfectionism to completely paralize me from any creative fun. I would obsess over this stuff with research, money, and shame that my productions are not as "good sounding" - and the upper limit of what is considered good sounding is having a private studio, hiring session musicians to sing into a vintage six-figure-costing setup of mics to be mastered by a legendary engeneer who does commisions for tens or hundreds of thousands. So pretty much struggling with what they call "unatainable beauty standards". So when I say potato level equipment I mean stuff I can buy for 20$ instead of 20 000$. Just using whats available.
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2020, 12:40:04 PM »

Just wanted to celebrate 2 weeks of n/c  Way to go! (click to insert in post)

Also wanted to ask something. During therapy it became evident that I subconsciously punish myself for taking care of myself. If I spend a day beeing kind and understanding towards me, there's a pattern that I would kick myself with negative thoughts and ruminations.

How do I control this? Is excessive ruminating on the past and the "romantic" aspect of the relationship a type of self-punishment, since I know intellectualy that it was never that amazing? Is false sentimentality ultimately self-deprecating? I understand grief, but this obssesive thinking is beyond that, it is way past just being sad and missing the good stuff. It's like OCD. Lack of mental hygine so to speak.

It must be really subtle, because it is there, but in the tiniest of emotions. For example, when I was in extremely good mood, following a couple of days of really being compasionate with myself - this nice state of moving on, the good place on the roller-coaster - hanging out with some of my less emotionally-stable friends, bless their hearts. I found myself with this little voice: you cannot be happy, you cannot keep this up, you cannot leave them behind, look at them, they're stuck, you will be too: it's selfish to leave your friends and family and to want a better life. It was almost imperceptible, but I cannot deny hearing that voice.

How can I identify self-sabotage? Can anyone relate? What did you guys do, that in hindsight wasn't all that good in your recovery? Can everyday vices be used to keep ourselves down: alcohol, not taking care of ourselves, sleeping and eating poorly, a way to prevent ourselves from quicker recovery? Is coming out of codependency and narc traits, this battle, really on that many fronts?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 12:49:50 PM by dindin » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2020, 03:15:39 PM »

hey dindin

2 weeks of no contact   Way to go! (click to insert in post) Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

how to control ruminations? my experience is, a benzodiazipine has done the trick as much as at certain points, a bottle of cheap wine got me through. A joke from a friend. A smile from a stranger in the street. Talking - alot - here, reading. There has not been a single panacea. I believe Im likely to have OCD traits (they were diagnosed in the past) whether I still have them today is something I dont know. I stopped the rituals, do you have any? I used to go home often wondering if the cooker was left on, eventually I just told myself "if it, cest la vie!" Id rather deal with a burnt to the crisp home than to live my life any more so neurotically. I was bad for checking if Id forgotten my phone, keys, wallet. losing my phone is not the end of the world. my family have copies of my keys, I have 2 accounts and carry just my preloaded spending card, if I lose it, takes a few minutes online to cancel. I got these traits from my parents, it is learned anxiety. Im my own man now, nearly 40, want to do things my own way, including how I cope with control issues and learning to let go of the "petty" things in life, and defining them as petty. Just sharing, we are both different, what works for you will have different mileage, this is not an exact science or set in stone roadmap to 'recovery'. Just your post the other day on my quitting cigarettes was enough to find solace. I reached out for moral support, I could have reached for a pack of marlboro instead. Im here for you, we all are here for each other.
in terms of being around "less" emotionally stable friends - it helped me to be here and find those who have been through similar and have had the demonstratable strength to be able to be there for others. I look up to that as much as say, a role model of the gym who has a level of fitness I would want to work towards, or those smarter/more knowledged id like to learn from. Its helped my life to put myself in the "lowest" part of a higher class than choose to stay top student in the lower class. There is nothing 'wrong' or 'better' in either choice, but it is a choice to make and a personal one at that.

You mentioned before about finding the inner self. same goes, I might never fully do so, maybe no one actually ever has, but it is not necessarily a fools errand. part of what I want, how I view my self is in relation to others. Id like to be more like some other people I know and look up to - that to me - is - part of my inner self. my parents stopped me from motorcycling, I eventually later in life got my licence up to 125cc, loved the experience but did not love a top speed of only 60mph. Id need to learn to be as skilled as someone else who has the next licence up to proceed, im not going to find it by asking someone who cant ride a normal bicycle. Im hoping im not getting too off on tangents from the point im trying to articulate.

it deserves a second mention, to share in celebration and congratulate you for 2 weeks no contact and how you have put in this work, made of strong stuff.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2020, 04:47:01 PM »

Hey Cromwell,

Thanks for your answer and once again big kudos for not smoking.
As for OCD, now that you mention it, you know what, I used to be like that, I used to make copies of my keys and give it to friends, I used to tripple check the doors, faucets, etc. I couldn't go to sleep with tripple checking those things. Crazy times. But somewhere along the line I just dropped it. I completely forget that it used to give me anxiety. I think it coincided with me beating the **** out of my depression but not sure, can these things go to remission on their own? I never once addressed them, they just disappeared. But it could be that I still have some of it when it comes to ruminations. Interesting thought. Now that you reminded me, I'm gonna go check if the cooker is off hahah :D

I know exactly what your were trying to say in terms of having role models and aiming up, and thanks for the support. I also have a 125cc motorcycle, next season I'll try to get a proper licence! 125 are glorified mopeds Smiling (click to insert in post)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 04:55:32 PM by dindin » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2020, 09:14:29 PM »

Also wanted to ask something. During therapy it became evident that I subconsciously punish myself for taking care of myself. If I spend a day being kind and understanding towards me, there's a pattern that I would kick myself with negative thoughts and ruminations.

How do I control this?

 
What shows you that you punish yourself ? What in your childhood could have set up this scenario? ...............How many days do you get to, being kind and forgiving? How long with the negative? Notice the time frames, work in the correct way and these times will shift, with patience, and its not a coincidence that youre attempting to control this, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). The truth is you cant and there is a lesson to be learned in these thoughts....Its you not understanding you, and you dont have the patience, just as your primary caregivers didnt.

Is excessive ruminating on the past and the "romantic" aspect of the relationship a type of self-punishment, since I know intellectually that it was never that amazing?

Im thinking you have a different perspective on things? Revisiting was necessary for me. It allowed me to see me. To understand my dysfunctional thinking.....What has you seeing this as punishment?  I had 12 years plus, with BPD, everything didnt suck. At the time, it was amazing for me on many occasions. It sucked a few times also, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). Ok alot more than a few.

You mentioned before about finding the inner self. same goes, I might never fully do so, maybe no one actually ever has, but it is not necessarily a fools errand. part of what I want, how I view my self is in relation to others.

Its not about finding the inner self. Its more about bringing it closer to the conscious. The inner self is the subconscious. Absolutely this is possible. Its not a fools errand.............A funny thing happens when you actually see yourself in real time (actually appx. 3 seconds behind).... you also see others.

it deserves a second mention, to share in celebration and congratulate you for 2 weeks no contact and how you have put in this work, made of strong stuff.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

and a 3rd and a 4th.........you now have benchmarks, a record of healthier living. There will be peeks and valleys, expect them, and acquire patience and persistence, and doing both simultaneously isnt easy. I wish you well, Peace



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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2020, 04:48:03 AM »

Im thinking you have a different perspective on things? Revisiting was necessary for me. It allowed me to see me. To understand my dysfunctional thinking...

Oh, I agree. I was talking more about negative ruminations, like reliving the pain of having been cheated on emotionally or lied to. This negative talk that tells you you deserved it. I have that. And still sub-level malignant hope that is there and at least for me, shows as this magical thinking: I think I see her car everywhere, etc.
I am talking about these things, as I feel they are unhealthy but have no way of controlling it.
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2020, 06:44:47 AM »

Hey Cromwell,

Thanks for your answer and once again big kudos for not smoking.
As for OCD, now that you mention it, you know what, I used to be like that, I used to make copies of my keys and give it to friends, I used to tripple check the doors, faucets, etc. I couldn't go to sleep with tripple checking those things. Crazy times. But somewhere along the line I just dropped it. I completely forget that it used to give me anxiety. I think it coincided with me beating the **** out of my depression but not sure, can these things go to remission on their own? I never once addressed them, they just disappeared. But it could be that I still have some of it when it comes to ruminations. Interesting thought. Now that you reminded me, I'm gonna go check if the cooker is off hahah :D



Hi Dindin,

Good luck with the licence upgrade.

With ruminating, a key way to break it and it is linked to certain brain areas that ruminators
use as opposed to non ruminators - is to take action on these issues, avoid them leading towards depression related illness. In my own case I was fortunate to get help here, so many posts, although I was ruminating at the time - to talk with others and it is a form of problem solving, it is an action step, going for therapy to learn emotional control methods should have helped in theory too - I realise you are doing this already. I hear that you are not depressed and you come across here as a happy go lucky guy often - upbeat - i wonder if this shows sign of just how strong you have been to be able to reach out and get support at such early stage. so to answer the Question, what would I change - not much but id be more concious when Id get trapped in rumination state and do something to interrupt it, at least work activities, exercise. therapy I realise is important, could have avoided or mitigated the depression I fell into, but I pulled through that eventually it might have just taken me a longer path to do so.

heres a link to the study that im referring to if interested https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5153413/
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2020, 10:37:31 AM »

I was talking more about negative ruminations, like reliving the pain of having been cheated on emotionally or lied to. This negative talk that tells you you deserved it.

It appears to be a self induced conflict, with no hopes of a resolution. These are your feelings and are choosing to associate them with others. Good luck with this. For me, this showed me, there was still work to do. As a child I could remember similar feelings and actually found healthier ways to self soothe, as opposed to the methods I used during adolescence/adulthood, for me it was alcohol, drugs, sex, and good times. (dont regret a second and many good memories) So youre telling me BPD cheated on you emotionally?.....The illness dictates this, but maybe youre so special the illness should act differently? You cant have it both ways. You either ignore or respect the illness. You have read about the illness. So how is your statement above, your truth? Putting a belief system in place, based on a lie, doesnt appear to be a road to anywhere. So maybe ask who is really lying to whom? or at the very least participating in it. The battle is always the subconscious vs the conscious

I have that.

As you always have in one form or another. The question now, is what are you going to do with it? I suggest keep collecting tools along the way. Make daily efforts towards your own well being, regardless how you feel, for the rest of your life. Its helped me and the rewards have been more than I ever could have expected. The more you work in positive directions, the less negative thought arises. It is this simple, yet hard to do.

And still sub-level malignant hope that is there and at least for me, shows as this magical thinking:

Sometimes the kind and forgiving thing to do, doesnt feel this way. Beliefs dont change easily and understandably so. It took a lifetime to get here...... Black and white thinking is now being called sub-level malignant hope. Magical thinking never worked out very well for me.................. This would be progress and understand that hope and uncertainty is dysfunctional thinking, with no resolution possible.

I am talking about these things, as I feel they are unhealthy but have no way of controlling it.

Its not unhealthy, you just fear them. Its you looking for answers from you. Answer them truthfully and they will subside. Lie and they continue. I wish you well, Peace



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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2020, 10:59:28 AM »

Thanks for you support guys.

Could you elaborate on this:
Putting a belief system in place, based on a lie, doesnt appear to be a road to anywhere. So maybe ask who is really lying to whom?

I understand the truth intellectually - the illness dictated the discard, cheating and lies, and that it had nothing to do with me or my worth as a person - but there is this other voice that undermines that. It's gut-wrenching self-hate. Why would I lie to myself? How did it work for you when you had these issues?

When I tried to think about it lately, I came to the conclusion that, on top of childhood trauma and extremely low self-esteem, there could be some cultural programming going on that is so ingrained that I am/was barely aware of it. Is that the source of the lies that I tell myself? I cought myself saying to my T: "what is the point of having a r/s, of loving someone, if it's not unconditional". I didn't really think about it, and was down because I felt defeated at the idea that I will never find this divine, unconditional love. But now I really see it for what a twisted idea that is. Why on earth would you like to recieve and get truly unconditional love from anyone? If they are an addict or abusive, would you stay with them?  And on the other hand, if you are rejected holding this belief, this means there must be something royally bad with you. Unless you are a child, that is not how love should look like, right?

There is something extremely depressing for me in admitting that real-life relationships are to one extent or another conditional and unpredictable, so it's easier for me to admit that I must be defective, than it is to admit this reality.  Why is that?

It was like I was programmed by various codepenedent and abusive people in childhood, together with some hardcore religious beliefs, to have this twisted idea of romantic love: Catholic no-divorce policy. And this love you see in the movies. Chasing after someone to an airport. Love at first sight. Believing that true love will prevail and other nonsense, that in real life  pretty much enables abuse and clinginess. Does our culture really hold this infantilized idea of love, that is more for a parent-child relationship than for adults?

Could this be one of the reasons I try to lie to myself? What could be the other reasons be? What were they for you?
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2020, 12:26:38 PM »

but there is this other voice that undermines that. It's gut-wrenching self-hate.

Your subconscious and its false on a conscious level. Yet your behavior/thinking proves this isnt so, for your subconscious. So who really is in control for now? This is a choice.

Why would I lie to myself?

As a developing human it was survival. As an adult its the path of least resistance, a known. We are creatures of habit.

How did it work for you when you had these issues?

Spurred alot of anger as a child. The lonely child, yet i could always see a little light telling me it could be different. I was going to prove the world wrong. I then continued to do the best I could, with what I had. it didnt amount to much. As an adult I would seek r/s that validated this dysfunctional thinking. It took another dysfunctional person to full fill this obviously. I was getting just what I asked for, without realizing, what i was really asking for.

Why on earth would you like to receive and get truly unconditional love from anyone?

There are conditions to healthy love. Unconditional love ends as Bonnie and Clyde, or Romeo and Juliet................Reminds me of ex telling me one time, out of the blue, " I would help you bury the body".............WTF. Beware of anyone who speaks this nonsense, it doesnt end well.

Unless you are a child, that is not how love should look like, right?

Especially as a child. I cant see any reason to do this to a child, unless you are trying to make an excuse for poor behavior. Doesnt seem to give this child, a way to see things differently. Illnesses are always looking for validation so they can survive. its the order.

There is something extremely depressing for me in admitting that real-life relationships are to one extent or another conditional and unpredictable, so it's easier for me to admit that I must be defective, than it is to admit this reality.  Why is that?

Maybe partly because now, youre starting to see, you really dont control as much as you thought. Unpredictable isnt a known...........You using "Im defective" is a go to, for most anything you can justify. Its false. You are human and humans are imperfect creatures.

Does our culture really hold this infantilized idea of love, that is more for a parent-child relationship than for adults?


Yes. Child behavior is accepted, as many/most are playing this out whether they understand it or not.

Could this be one of the reasons I try to lie to myself? What could be the other reasons be? What were they for you?

Yes, all played a hand, forming your beliefs, as I suspect all do this. Throw in what society deems normal (which is off the chain these days) and this is what we got............We all lie to ourselves to some extent. The bigger the lie, the more dysfunction we experience it appears. Your reasons will become apparent to you, at some point. They will just fit and it will make sense........Your truth and be smart enough to realize that one day, your truth may change again. I wish you well, Peace










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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2020, 09:50:24 AM »

FindingMe2011: Thanks for answer, it gave me a lot to think about! Maybe as a self proclaimed narc  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) you could help me with something. Or anyone for that matter.

During my therapy session it became evident that I have real problem integrating my "narc" or more aggressive "male" traits. Men in my family have been useless or drunk, and really didn't model how to live with those traits and put them to good use.

There is no denying that I am ambitious, sometimes aggressively so, and work-oriented. I like nice things and would love to make a lot of money just for the sake of it. But at the same time I feel immense shame when these qualities come out, like it's a sin to be this way. It causes me great problems, because I am naturally drawn to compete, I like money, I like excelling at something, and at the same time I feel it's sinful, wrong, etc. Like I'm betraying someone by taking stuff and making my mark.

How can I come to terms with myself  and these qualities. Because of my problems it's been oscillating between making these qualities narcissistic, and then burning all hope for the "good life" in an endless pit of procrastination, shame and indecision.

How can one do it tactfully, and yet not deny his nature? How to express these desires, get rid of shame, and yet not do it in a narcissistic way? I am really looking for some role models or examples, books? I had complete lack of competent people (especially males) modelling this in my life.

Now it looks like one of the goals for recovering from codependency and narc traits is to step by step discover a new philosophy for life - a more nuanced one with lots of compassion for myself and others, but true to my nature. Is this a right way to approach it?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 09:56:26 AM by dindin » Logged
FindingMe2011
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2020, 02:08:41 PM »

Men in my family have been useless or drunk, and really didn't model how to live with those traits and put them to good use.

These are not men, they just look like one. It takes a man to raise a boy into a man. A lost art in these times and those in control understand and perpetuate it.

During my therapy session it became evident that I have real problem integrating my "narc" or more aggressive "male" traits.

Its no longer as big of a problem, because at least now you see this. This is a narcs worst enemy. A narrow view of the world. Yet many narc traits are awesome and have their place. Leadership, protector and a never say die attitude, when others would crumble, come to mind. There is a place for all in this world, and all need to be respected.

There is no denying that I am ambitious, sometimes aggressively so, and work-oriented. I like nice things and would love to make a lot of money just for the sake of it.

And this is bad because???? The world has set up the rules. We have to figure out a way to live inside these rules. Hell, those in other countries dont even have these options, or the ability to live out their dreams. Our southern border proves this. Good business people are aggressive, so maybe picking and choosing the times for aggression (depending on the situation) is in order. You can only curb behavior. Be you and stand tall with the good, the bad, and the ugly. Now your seeing the ugly. It too will curb in time, be patient.

But at the same time I feel immense shame when these qualities come out, like it's a sin to be this way. It causes me great problems, because I am naturally drawn to compete, I like money, I like excelling at something, and at the same time I feel it's sinful, wrong, etc. Like I'm betraying someone by taking stuff and making my mark.

Unless youre actually stealing from others, this would be your trauma following you around in life. Finding ways to validate itself. Its faulty thinking and will also curb as you catch it, shut it down for the time being and move on. Just remember too much of anything isnt healthy, including money. Too much time spent here, will allow the world to pass you by. Theres a lot to see out there and most doesnt require money. Especially the best parts...Staying diligent with work and finding (making time) for peaceful outlets, surprised me. I actually cared less about money and somehow made more.....The peace brought better decision making. Its a balance you should search for. I can remember picking up checks, for amounts I would have never fathomed earning. I felt guilt and shame. Then I remembered I started this thing with just myself. It was false.

I am really looking for some role models or examples, books?

It needs to be you. Maybe associate with others you see as role models.....Take their good qualities, mix with yours, and YOU be YOUR role model. You will probably find, these people you seek arent the perfect role models. They are human just as you, and also have imperfections. Working on ( i actually laugh at mine) these imperfections, is all one should expect. The more work you put in the better results, just like earning money.

Now it looks like one of the goals for recovering from codependency and narc traits is to step by step discover a new philosophy for life - a more nuanced one with lots of compassion for myself and others, but true to my nature. Is this a right way to approach it?

This is how I have lived for the past 8 years or so......Searching for truth, not dictating it. Being open to understanding, that if your truth could change once, it may change again....The blinders are coming off, congrats. I wish you well, Peace

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« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2020, 03:23:11 PM »

Dude, thanks! You should really write a book for people who identify as narcs or have narc traits, epecially in the context of bpd rs. There is so much hate for it, mainly the internet is a big witch hunt, but I also found out that a lot of therapist are scared or defensive when you talk about this stuff.
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« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2020, 04:45:02 PM »

Dude, thanks! You should really write a book for people who identify as narcs or have narc traits, especially in the context of bpd rs. There is so much hate for it, mainly the internet is a big witch hunt, but I also found out that a lot of therapist are scared or defensive when you talk about this stuff.

Youre welcome.......The internet is a witch hunt for anything and is nothing but fantasy. The less tech you use, the better off one is. Tech CEOs dont let their own children experience till around 15. I wonder why?.............Most(if not all) therapists get into the biz to figure themselves out. They are no better than you, to figure you out.  I had a shrink tell me after 2 visits he could no longer help me. I was doing it. Says only 5-10% can do this.......I actually have started ghost writing, more so towards a philosophical approach, with a view from psychology. Somehow through all of this, I came to a point of discernment of psychology. This tells me others can also..........It blew my whole way of thinking into something massive, but in a way that has created more energy than I have ever experienced. A new lease on life, in many ways. I wish you well, Peace
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 05:03:22 PM by FindingMe2011 » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2020, 10:58:53 AM »

I mean, it's a reasonable boundary to not expect your SO to lie. But at the same time if you put unreasonable expectations on them like never talking to ex-boyfriends, then they might be more prone to lying. If their ex-boyfriends are getting more time/attention than you are, I would see it as a problem. I don't think exes should go into a blacklisted pile and you should be unable to talk to them.

Boundaries should be based on feelings to some extent, but also what is reasonable and what gives a person freedom and agency, if it's suffocating to a person as an individual then it might be too controlling.

Some of my boundaries are set based on my expectations, but also they are set on just how I feel. One day I might feel terrible and want to be left alone. One day I might  not feel like talking much. That's reasonable because if I remove myself from the situation the other person still has freedom, it's mainly focused on how they do or don't interact with me.

If you have trouble feeling secure in your relationships then either you need to focus on building self esteem, or working through unresolved betrayals that cause you to not trust. Or you need to pick better people to involve yourself with so that the person is actually worthy of that trust. It's important to use logic to discern how trustworthy a person is, based on your observations and especially their actions. Then ask yourself if it's your own issue mainly or is it them, or both?
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