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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: You should watch  (Read 2284 times)
B53
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« on: November 22, 2020, 03:32:38 PM »


This guy is great. He has a series on YouTube

I hope I copied the link correctly. It should be called:

Dating a borderline- Your relationship is not what you think it is- the illusion of intimacy

https://youtu.be/jtFBJF48y0Y
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Cromwell
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2020, 04:45:56 PM »

Hi B53

how are you doing today?

2:56 to 3:33

"listen when it comes to recovery, if you have been in a relationship with a borderline or if you are in a relationship with a borderline, you are by definition a codependent which means you have a very serious mental illness yourself and if you have been in a relationship with a borderline that lasted longer than a couple of weeks then by definition you are in denial as the red flags are there from the beginning, because it was for me."


was wondering what you felt about this part.
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B53
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2020, 08:35:01 PM »

Hmmm, I am very familiar with codependency and will admit there was a bit of codependency and rescuing involved. I have had lots of counseling and was in a good place when I met him. I didn’t rush into this relationship even though he would of liked it. I did love him , but often wondered if I was in love with him. I felt a little guilty feeling that way. I don’t feel I was that enmeshed. I have no problem identifying my feelings and I communicated them well. I never felt responsible for his actions and I questioned where they were coming from. He did not affect my mood, that was the other way around. I tend to be a passive person but he did not dominate me.I’ve been told that I am a very strong person more than once. I certainly didn’t look to him for my self esteem and told him that often when he devalued me and was aware that his idealization was over the top, though I will admit I liked it, who wouldn’t.
 I knew something was wrong, I just didn’t know what. Our first incident was about me supposedly giving him a look. I told him that I had  no idea what look he was talking about and promised him he would see it again, since I can control my looks and if that was an issue then he should move on. Usually when something came up, he would go home and not call me for a week or two and I never once called him. I didn’t know it was BPD, but I told him that I wasn’t playing that game and if he didn’t call me, then it would be over. I never once accepted blame for anything I didn’t do. He said I never would admit that I was wrong and I told him I would, if I was wrong. After each incident, we would talk it out, pointing out how way out of portion his reaction was and he always apologized. Though now I realize that he probably didn’t get what he did wrong he just knew that it was his way back in.I learned early on that defending myself was useless. I often watched his behavior with curiosity and waited until it ran its course. He was the one who initiated couples counseling, unfortunately we had a terrible counselor. No one knew what we were dealing with at that time. That fact that he was willing to seek out help was the reason I continued. He was trying. I was the one who search and found BPD and told him he had to go to therapy or it was over. He was very agreeable to go.

Now was that a healthy relationship, certainly not and in my gut I always knew it wasn’t going to last. It’s funny because I never took pictures of him. I may have one or two. In every other relationship I have had, I usually had a picture of us in a frame in my bedroom.

Now the last two episodes did get to me. For the first time what he said hit me below the belt. I realize that if we continued I was going to start to go down hill and when he broke up with me I let it end. I wasn’t willing to loose myself.

I have thought about it a lot and it’s starting to be more clear as to why I have been having a difficult time. What I never realized until recently is that the good times were not love. I did think he loved me, but now I know it’s not true. That has been a hard pill to swallow. I thought that he would get better with counseling and realize that he might, but it won’t be anytime soon. We had months of drama free times and because of Covid, during those times we did everything together and had a routine, that worked. I am alone now, in a big empty house (which I own) and with COVID, I can’t visit my family and friends. I am sad and lonely and mourning the loss of the relationship. Not matter how good or bad it was, it is a normal reaction, when you loose someone. That particular YouTube was very healing for me. Seeing the picture of the little girl in the grown up dress was the perspective that I needed. From now on I will picture him as a child in a grownup mans suit. A visual I will use when I get sad.

Now you might disagree and say that just being in the relationship makes me a full blown codependent. I can live with that. The fact is, the label doesn’t matter to me. I’m doing better every day and have no doubt that I have a happy future ahead.

Now your thoughts.
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2020, 07:57:37 AM »

Hi  B53
 I did think he loved me, but now I know it’s not true. That has been a hard pill to swallow.


B53 - hard pill to swallow? The "love" "love" "love" thing. and to discover it was fake - is a horrendous catastrophe.

So if a video brings some comfort, I found similar on my journey, I can understand. It is part of some of our journeys. I do not believe you are codependent, just to make that clear that im on your side, it has always been my stance (I can show you previous posts of mine to confirm) that a person is not a codependent when they are able to live outside a relationship.

thoughts on loneliness, it does not apply to me today, but it took time to advertise to the world "hey, want a friend who is interested in sports, music, art, sex" or "hey, im grieving the heartbreak of a girl I attached to emotionally and have nothing to offer more than depressed musings". Possibly it may have helped to better appreciate certain art and music, always a plus side so they say.

but I want a new relationship now, I realised this is where my true desires are, not paintings and audio vibrations to the ear drum. So, I chat to women, get their numbers and it is a step in the right direction. Some are half my age, possibly borderline, im not trained in such things, besides it matters not - I know I can have fun time, company, sex, you name it without any risk of attaching viz a viz the "love" thing.

unnecessarily feeling the need to attach via 'love' and then risk this devastating situation emotionally we both found ourselves in - therapy, recovery, heartbreak, trying to understand thinking that will help, more heartbreak, loop, etc.

I realise how tough it is post-relationship although it is nearly 3 years ago and actually some of it is fading away in signficance, I have to sometimes force myself to remember how scary a time it was. Thank you for reading my assortment of jumbled thoughts B53.
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B53
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2020, 10:46:07 AM »

I am a very visual person, so being able to bring that picture up in my head will help me keep my perspective. I actually feel so much better today, than I have felt in awhile.

The reason I know about codependency is because I went to CODA meetings for five years. I’ve been a preschool teacher for 29 years and raised 3 children, which both tend to be codependent in nature. Im not dismissing that there wasn’t some codependency in that relationship, on both sides but I wasn’t completely sucked in, though it was heading in that direction. I alway sensed there was something off and like I said, I never had the feelings for him like I did in past relationships. I never went through the infatuation stage with him.  It’s a stage  in relationships that most people love, but I don’t. It’s fake and it’s not until it’s over that you actually see who that person really is. Though, it is the fist stage of a loving relationship and I was aware of my lack of feelings. I had a double major in college, education and psychology. I have always been fascinated in what makes people tick  and I was curious about what was going on. I was excited that I figured out what was wrong and I have to admit, I wanted to be part of the challenge to fix him, but not at the cost of sacrificing myself. I actually think without the BPD we were a pretty good match. He said he is going to beat this and he has jumped in with both feet. Unfortunately I don’t have enough years ahead of me to gamble on that and I don’t have it in me to keep dealing with the cycles until that happens, if it’s going to.

It’s frightening to me that BPs have done such a number on people’s heads that they still haven’t gotten over it years later.  It’s kind of like a slot machine. You win, then you loose, loose, loose and when you’re ready to give up, you win again. That’s how people loose a lot of money and their sanity.

I have always enjoyed the company of men more than women and have always had a lot of men friends. Unfortunately when I start to date the new guy usually doesn’t like that I hang out with other men ( which I can’t blame him) so I now try to avoid that type of relationships. I’m still close to my high school guy friends, but they are married and I am friends with their wives too.

I still want to find that special one. I’m not into FWB. I need to sort through this and take care of loose ends before I can move on.
It’s funny,I have never minded being alone and feeling lonely is new to me. There is a difference when it’s a choice, but with Covid it is something that is forced on us, with no end in sight. No longer having someone here to interact with, I feel the void, hence loneliness. I do zoom and FaceTime with my family and friends, but it’s not the same. I still plan to go visit my daughter and grandchildren for Christmas, if I feel it is safe.

Thanks for writing back.
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2020, 10:51:39 AM »

Excerpt
Hmmm, I am very familiar with codependency and will admit there was a bit of codependency and rescuing involved.

Hey B53, Most of us Nons have codependent tendencies, because you sort of have to be a caretaker/rescuer to be in a r/s with a pwBPD.  It runs with the territory.  Took me a long time to figure out that care-taking is unhealthy for both the care giver and care recipient, because it allows the care recipient to avoid taking responsibility for his/her own issues.  For the care giver, it provides an excuse to avoid confronting his/her own issues and feels good play the role of White Knight.  At least that's my take on the dynamic, which creates a strong bond even though it's unhealthy.  Does that ring a bell in terms of your r/s with your Ex?

LJ
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2020, 01:35:56 PM »

B53 you are more than welcome, It is nice when our moods get a lift and find some happiness. Ive been doing quite well, sometimes I feel the need to drop by and have a chat, or say something and it is nice to get a reply, and im alright again. So thanks, and look forward to hearing how you get on. Take care
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B53
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2020, 06:28:31 PM »

When a codependent jumps out a window, somebody else’s life flashes before them

I definitely will admit that there were elements of codependency in this relationship. If it wasn’t before his diagnoses, it definitely kicked in after. After his diagnosis my feelings changed, I felt sorry for him, he lives in pain. I could no longer write off his behavior as him being a Ahole. Of course I wanted to be there for him. When he walked out, I had no desire to chase after him. I’m sure he would take me back if I wanted. The relationship was unhealthy and I was getting in the way of his recovery. This is for the best!
What differs for me is that, he didn’t come close to the best relationship I have had. He didn’t have that irresistible attraction that everyone writes about. There was a compatibility and routine. We went through some personal difficulties together.  I was content, until I wasn’t. Like I said, there is a void, a loss a big empty house. Just because the relationship was bad, doesn’t mean you don’t grieve it.

I would say this is the best day that I have had since it happened. I got back to a project I had started. I expect I’ll have some bad days but I think I may be over the worst of it, as long as he leaves me alone. Hopefully his therapist will reinforce that.

Thanks for taking your time to listen and support me. This site is very valuable for a lot of people.
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2020, 11:03:46 AM »

Excerpt
I think I may be over the worst of it,

Great news, B53.  Keep up the good work!  Some backsliding is normal, so don't be surprised if you have a few tough days as you work through the detaching process.

LJ
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 06:51:10 PM »

B53, thanks for continuing to share, it helps very much.

# I’m sure he would take me back if I wanted

do you think the loneliness, if it got too much, could get to that point?
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B53
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2020, 11:24:35 PM »

Thanks for getting back to me. I’m always interested in what you have to say. I’ve been thinking a lot about both of your (LJ’s and Cromwell’s)thoughts and advice and find you both to often be very insightful. I’ve been thinking  about how much of a role codependency played in my relationship and concluded that I am in denial. There was something that happened early on in the relationship that was out of our control  that did change the dynamics somewhat. I’m happy to tell you about it, but I’m not sure how interested you are.

There have been some moments of sadness, but for the most part I had a good day and was very productive ( I’m putting a new floor in my laundry room). In the past, I have always enjoyed my alone time and seldom got lonely or bored and that part of me is starting to return. I see a light at the end of the tunnel, but it’s still a little dim.

I would not go back to my ex due to loneliness, that would be disastrous. I don’t want to say I would never go back because I have learned to never say never, so I’ll say it’s highly unlikely.  Maybe if he had some inpatient therapy, I might entertain the thought, but what are the chances of that happening?

Later,
B53




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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2020, 10:32:22 AM »

Hi B53

Im interested to hear what happened earlier in the relationship, it sounds important if you feel like sharing.

At the moment I relate strong to keeping busy, I have little choice a lot of work, it has distraction as a plus point, i still try to find time to do a bit of therapy here with the hope that it long term adds up.

Yesterday i panicked that I'd fallen behind on work only to discover im way ahead as if it was been done by some magic pixie. But it's being on autopilot and studies have shown that stress correlates to increase in performance. So that's what it feels like and maybe its better than if I had less to do.

Its nice to talk here with folk and feel a sense of ongoing connection and support, as you say, through the good and not so good days.

I have to concentrate hard on work i do it affects people's lives, I put them in my mind first and foremost and it helps to remind me for all the issues i have it is an ex relationship and there are also other important things in the present that deserve my time, interest and responsibility.

One goal I have is to live a 'normal' balanced life. I just don't fully know what that might resemble Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Thanks for listening.

How are things going today?
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B53
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2020, 08:37:38 PM »

I had a pretty good day, but I had sad moments, more then the last two days. His sister-in-law, texted me this morning, to wish me a happy Thanksgiving. She had no idea that we broke up over a month ago.

 

Hope your day went well!

 

 I have said in several of my post, my relationship didn’t have the total craziness that I typically read about. I question that maybe in part it was because most people are writing about woman BPD and also they are much younger. I’ve been thinking a lot about why I stayed. I’ve said, it wasn’t love at first sight. I am an introvert and I like my alone time and until lately I have never been bored or lonely.  I’m usually attracted to extraverts because they have something to say when I am at a loss for words and I’m always up for what ever adventures they come up with. It’s not that I am boring, I know how to have fun. I also have to admit there is something more exciting about a bad boy, compared to the nice guy. All my friends and family thought my ex was such a nice guy. I contributed my lack of initial attraction to being with an introverted nice guy. Something new to me. I took my time getting to know him and slowly started to appreciate him and liked having both independence and loving attentiveness (now known as idealization). Before I would sleep with him I made him get an STD test. He hadn’t had a physical for a few years. During his physical he found out that he had early stage prostate cancer. Luckily we live in the suburbs of Baltimore where we have access to some of the best hospitals in the world. After learning his options, he decided to go to the University of Maryland for proton treatment, instead of radiation. It is relatively new but the outcome has been very positive. Some insurance companies won’t even cover the cost, his did.  It was a nine-week program, not including the prep work. We had plans to take a three-day hiking/back pack trip in the Grand Canyon and explore some of the tourist places, which we had to cancel. He took medical leave from work. He was offered to be part of a study group which aimed much stronger amounts of protons to the area in only five treatments and he went with it. I went with him to all his appointments. He has been cancer free for over a year. It was the main focus of our summer. So the first two BP episodes, I thought were misunderstandings while we were learning about each other and the ones that happened during the summer I thought were due to worrying about the cancer. Also he was not getting along with his 24-year-old daughter who was living with him, while applying to grad school and she decided to move out. I realize now , that she most likely  wasn’t the problem. So dealing with all that, had to effect the relationship. When it continued after that and I was walking away, he suggested couples counseling. He always took responsibly and was willing to go for help. He even admitted that he acted passive aggressive. I have never known a man to ever admit to that, I thought he was a unicorn.  When he went into individual therapy, he got the DBT workbook and participated and did every assignment and did everything the therapist suggested he do. He said “I’m going to beat this”. He was really trying. Most of the stories on this site talk about their BPD being in denial, not willing to seek help, cheating, lying and using their partners financially, and he didn’t do any of that. He did a lot of nice things that made my life so much easier. That is not to say, that the bad times weren’t really bad or I wouldn’t be writing this. His last text said that he realized how much pain he was causing me and he didn’t want to keep hurting me and he knew he had a lot of hard work a head to get better. He was going to focus on that.

 

Here is another problem. My sister,  brother and I inherited the family beach house. My brother wanted out. My sister bought him out. I did not want to own the house with my sister owning 2/3 and me owing 1/3. My sister is the type that would throw it up in my face anytime a decision would be made. I would be miserable. The house needed a total update so that we could rent or Airbnb it to cover the expenses. So I put in more money and my ex put up some, so I own 3/8, she owns 4/8 and he owns 1/8. He can fix most anything and we spent the summer doing the work and my sister paid for the materials and new appliances. They both make big bucks. I’m comfortable, but I’m a preschool teacher so I had to do a lot of sweat equity. So now my ex will always be connected to my family. I don’t know how it is going to work while we finish the renovations, but after that I wont have to ever be there when he is and my sister can be the go between.
So that’s my life. Was it worth the read?

I’m not sure if you told me how long you have been out of your relationship. What was the last straw.
I so understand autopilot. I was like that way before all this.
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« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2020, 10:40:14 AM »

Hi B53

It was worth the read,

every shared experience does to `dilute my own thoughts of what actually is a hallmark or classic bpd-relationship, is it smashed plates on the wall and Older guy, Younger woman.

What I can say is, when the relationship is over, so does all of that, what the challenge that was left is dealing with a mix of resolving what has flowed through. I did not get financially tethered, so its something I cant relate I think. She owed me a small sum of money, I wrote it off as insignificant in the terms of - not worth fighting for. weighing up, bit like the r/s itself.

#the last straw

I woke up one morning and it was just a case of "cant be bothered with this anymore". I did not decide to try and figure out what her text meant, it was as veiled, cryptic as the others. I did not care to try and solve or debate or ask Qs. "are you drunk" etc.

My issue I believe has been focused on having trust carpet bombed and induced depression as a result, the relationship then continued on with push/pull with being in a state of low-energy to want to fight, or express emotion, I just drifted a long and became more of the passive object. It had the plus side that anything new she did, did not properly "hit", I was heartbroken if I never fully appreciated I was rationally, so anything new made little difference. The downside is it limited my scope for finding a way towards getting into healthier place, connect again with the rest of the world. It was her, my job, and increasingly isolated life elsewhere.

So what its all in the past. today I have the return of Joie de vivre, im doing my best but not trying too hard to "catch up" (there is no such thing it is not possible) but certainly when I relate today, I feel happier, healthier and the memories have not faded as such as have been altered - there is no ptsd trauma, it took nearly 3 years but within that time has been many good days. Sometimes going through a lot of upset has given me something to relate to and also appreciate more. One of my work colleagues passed away from cancer, it has stirred me emotionally but also directed my thoughts towards my own mortality. how I view each day, each moment as valuable.

not so much autopilot today, its been strange I keep looking at my deadlines and realise that im doing well, why is there anxiety? I can take a day off like today and maybe autopilot is not what it was during the r/s, I might just be simply "good" at what I do and in the right place, with the right match of people that brings out a more productive/efficient behaviour. Added more leisure time in, and getting more work done, it sounds like it should not work when thinking of "time" but somehow it is. So im just going with that flow and letting go, hard to do, trust to let go and things will be alright.

it is worth the read B53 and I look up to you for the courage you have had to share this experience and give myself and others the honour to reply and learn from it. As I still post here, reply and meet new folk, i guess it has morphed to become a story that did not stop just because the relationship ended it keeps becoming something more and with it, different outcome each day it goes on. So thank you and take care.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2020, 02:07:59 PM »

Thanks for your story. I’m sorry about the loss of your colleague.

I’m curious as to how old you are. If you rather not say, that’s fine. Your thoughts flow far more than others and it makes me wonder, if that is due to age or the perspective you’ve gained over time.

I really hope that this experience is not going to stay with me that long, but only time will tell.  Compared to my marriage, this was a piece of cake. My father was verbally abusive to my mom and since that was the view of love I grew up with, I went on to marry two verbally abusive men. I have been divorced for almost 20 years and don’t believe I will marry again. My sister still remains in hers extremely abusive marriage. After five years of counseling I learned that not all men yell, though I still seem to attract them like a magnet. Have you taken the Myers Briggs personality test? I had already taken it several times, though I did take it again when I saw it on the site. I am a INFJ which is one percent of the population, but it is twenty percent of the people here. There seems to be a correlation.
What bothers me is that outside this blog, I still know so few people in happy relationships, where they are still in love with each other. Out of the twenty people I work with, I would say only three are really happy. I still believe that it’s possible to find love and happiness and I don’t have enough years ahead of me to dwell on the past, though I need to process and make peace with all this so, I don’t bring it with me to my next relationship.

Since my school is closed, I feel like I’m living the movie Groundhog Day.

I hope this is a good day for you and that you are enjoying it!
B53

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« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2020, 05:12:47 PM »

Hi B53,

Im soon 38, B53, my parents told me "life begins at 40" and looking up to them, I translated that into being "young" is under 40 and then maturity magically arrives. Last 2 years have been for sure an accelerated rate of pace of change.

#I still believe that it’s possible to find love and happiness and I don’t have enough years ahead of me to dwell on the past, though I need to process and make peace with all this so, I don’t bring it with me to my next relationship.

This sounds like where I got to eventually, although in many respects I found a lot of inner peace in terms of accomplished in life, and I feel in a place of advantage. Basically, what happens im open and receptive to but I dont feel like running out of time or pressured. How do you feel about satisfied with self love? I found it took this experience to compel it to be discovered, or perhaps it just started to grow organically. Im not sure, it is not only new but I wonder if id ever felt such a thing otherwise.


I enjoyed doing that test, first time, it says mediator INF-P-T
its quite scary how close I relate to the results, eye opener. thanks very much for something to do in covid lockdown boredom Smiling (click to insert in post)
I did POMS-2 before, scored zero Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

thanks and I might watch the film today, it feels good to say that rather than watching it being superflous. It "was" groundhog day for a long time, it isnt anymore, so I do know that feeling Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2020, 06:31:21 PM »

Hey there! I kind of feel like I am stalking your conversation thread, but I am really interested in following this post with you two. I joined this community a year or more ago (I'll have to look) because I was in a super toxic relationship. I knew something wasn't right and I am the type that wants a name to something. This way I can research and discover for myself. Anyway, I could go into the details but really it is a classic bpd situation. I was infatuated. We had history that we reconnected after 25 years. In my head for awhile he was the love of my life. I am a codependent through and through, so his type is my dream (always working on this problem). I sit here with a successful 8 months away from him and yet I think and somewhat obsess several times a day about him. It blows my mind the number it has done on my head. I have never been like this. I find it has made it that more difficult because you confuse the obsession with real love and I am constantly reliving the bad times over and over to just remind myself. I recently discovered he went back to his previous partner before me. This is someone that he spoke very harshly about and their relationship had a lot of damage involved. It immediately provoked a rash of feelings all over again. The main one being "Did he change for her and not me?" I remembered this site and have been reading (and watching the videos) all day today. It has helped immensely. I am embarassed to speak too much on it anymore as I feel like I am only whining and should be over this at this point. So I am encouraged to see others struggle for long times as well. I know I am on the right path. My reality for today is that his illness is what took him back and it is no longer my anxiety and problem to withstand. Thanks for letting me creep 
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2020, 06:53:33 PM »

Quick question: You referenced trying to decode her messages and wondering if she was drunk. This was a regular occurrence in our relationship. Is that a trait of bpd? He took Ambien and drank, I always chalked it up to that. I tried desperately to get him to stop. Which was ridiculous in of itself, I know. Then one time he apparently had not been taking Ambien for awhile and he still sent really weird messages.
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« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2020, 10:10:45 AM »

Hi Coasteroflove

Are the ruminations less frequent over the 8 months. It took me one year, not 11 months, to find peace from the thought train. It was a neuroscientist who told me "give yourself a year" and that turned out (I had my doubts) to be surreal in accuracy.

Probably a lot of other factors help a long the way, I figured out I had mild depression, anxiety, started to work on those. Ruminations are known symptoms of both. So was this as simple as "im obssessed with my ex" because I think of the relationship more than Id like? Id say, not, it was more complex.

#whining

if you want to, feel free to, maybe we will encourage more to join in Smiling (click to insert in post)

I have this feeling that some would like to, maybe embarrassment is the barrier to it. For all we know there is an army of whiners out there whod really benefit and maybe enjoy and feel better for it. There wouldnt be anything to be embarrased about, it would be perfectly normal. If it got really popular maybe get monthly awards for "the best whiner" and so on, maybe some arguments that "my whining is better than yours". some outside chattering "how did he.she get this month award, sure they did the most whining but mines was far more intense!"

possible right? as much as a decoder tool to decrypt strange messages. maybe a psychologist with combined cryptography will make one and we would know the answers we wanted. Imagine if it turned out an answer like "i just felt better to see my text received, two ticks" that the message itself was non importance but you gave it such, and yet we got on this thought train on all these other strands of enquiry.
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« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2020, 12:35:44 PM »

Hi Coasteroflove. Glad you joined in. All are welcome here! It’s great that there is something written here that can bring you some peace.

Cromwell,
I just submitted a post and it didn’t show up
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« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2020, 02:20:12 PM »

If it was longish post sometimes ive found it times out B53. Either way thanks and like to add that ive Read more of the personality profile. I know its accurate because "your personality type needs at least half an hour to wake up"

I think if i never got that text first thing opening my eyes id probably still be together, that was the last straw i dont do morning wake up calls my brain doesn't function before 10.30am.

Hope your doing well today
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« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2020, 03:12:47 PM »

Cromwell,
I'll give this another try. I'm using my computer instead of my ipad. I'm a slow typer.

Yeah, my personality type fit me. It must be the codependent type since it's rare, except for here.

 Well, I'm surprised that you are so young. I have children your age. You must be an old soul. Yes, you are at a good age. Old enough to have learned some life experiences and young enough to still look good, have lots of energy and hopefully you're in good health. I'll give you my motherly advice, put away as much money as you can for your future because it will be here sooner than you think and take care of your body. All the heavy things you lift and the sprains and broken bones come back to bite you in the butt. I can still scramble the rocks and hike five miles but it hurts the next day.

Your experience with BPD may be a blessing in disguise. You will go into your next relationship with your eyes open and you are working on discovering yourself and working on self love. This experience has been a setback for me, but for the most part, I like who I am. I think I bring a lot into friendships and relationships. If it wasn't for me my ex might not have found out he had cancer at the early stage, he wouldn't be getting help for BPD and he wouldn't know how good he looks with a beard. Isn't it always about them. LOL

I went to a numerologist years ago. She talked about past lives, soulmates and life lessons. I'm not sure if I believe in past lives, but it does make sense as to why bad things happen to good people. She told me that the lesson I was to learn in this life was to stand up for myself. It certainly has been a reoccurring theme. Maybe we are right where we are suppose to be. Maybe the great guy I'm suppose to meet wasn't ready yet and I needed to help my ex first. Timing is everything.

When I mentioned groundhog day, I was really referring to waking up everyday in this house and not being able to go anywhere.

One thing that has helped me out in my past breakups. was that I would find a new hobby. I learned how to throw (that's the term used)pots on a pottery wheel and another time I learned how to dance the east coast swing and two-step. I met people that I am still friends with today. When we are all set free again, I might join a hiking club or do volunteer work.

Someone asked me once if there was a song that I would choose to represent my life. I would choose Kenny Roger's the gambler. You have to know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em, know when to walk away, know when to run. The BPD would be in the run part.

What is pom's-2?

Hope your day is going well.
B53





 

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« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2020, 08:50:33 PM »

Hi again B53

really enjoyed Kenny Rogers song, could relate to it on a few different levels

Ive picked this one I hope it sends a bit of hope and joy maybe some irony humour for what we all going through Smiling (click to insert in post) maybe it reminds me of the agoraphobia (I never had before) it hit me when I went no contact, strange when I think back, maybe I shouldn't i went out bit by bit and got over it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItVEhL-T7qQ&list=PLpzSBTze6PhTvLCaTm334oCqlGbHAdRXy&index=8

met a Numerologist? it sounds special one of those moments that whatever message will be remembered. One of my first jobs was to chaffeur a psychic to and from her shop, occassionaly she gave a few things as gifts, crystals and small trinkets. I was and still fascinated by the occult, might be from my mother, she has bipolar and in her moments finds herself connected to the spirit world. i used to feel as if I humoured her at times but I actually enjoy she has a compedium of accumulated knowledge from numerology through to tarot reading and it is always interesting to hear and learn something from it.

POMS2 is a mood questionnaire,  I did only the "totally agree" or "totally disagree" boxes for every question, nothing in between, or neutral. I did it for fun as part of college work doing a survey on campus. Somehow I ended up scoring zero and the tutors face went pale. What can I say, I was in a mischevious mood at the time Smiling (click to insert in post)

One thing that has helped me out in my past breakups. was that I would find a new hobby. I learned how to throw (that's the term used)pots on a pottery wheel and another time I learned how to dance the east coast swing and two-step. I met people that I am still friends with today.

 |iiiiwas it stressful to start or is dancing something you can get involved in easily? I know I will try to learn to dance one day, it is something I want to do but afraid. My ex was an amazing dancer, it was some of her happiest moments she told me, the times I tried to dance with her, once it involved dislocating my knee. i let her do the dancing from then, I chose the music.

when it happened, I dealt with myself but what I cant forget is the attention she gave, the concern, the comfort. it was a love-aura which I have rarely seen anything close to in any medical staff I work with. Its like if she had the medical know how, she would be the 'ideal' nurse beyond textbook ideal. but idk, that shift in mood on the wrong day, something like the one out of stephen kings misery. not an exaggeration, that split. I dont believe she would have went to that length, but I just didnt know anymore and it is not knowing raised that climate of fear to overwhelming limits. This is where Kenny Rogers song applies, and what I did. Immensely hard call, walk away, it left sometimes regrets,  id like to share this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjzscuZa5UY because yes I see myself today in good shape, it stands to reason that ive moved on, but some days those lyrics apply and im not sure why or what, or if it is still a form of regret, I feel that way and ive learned to just accept it for "whatever" it is.

youve inspired me though B53, I think im ready to push myself into trying even more hobbies, get out the comfort zone again, that stuff worked before and does work.

long message thanks for the chat, I appreciate it so much and your kindness and advice. very happy and grateful for starting this topic its been a stressy but rewarding day and it couldnt have been a better time to have a good talk with someone easy going. So thanks again and take care. Cromwell
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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2020, 01:45:06 PM »

I have enjoyed our chats. I was concerned a little because we got off topic, but then I think the purpose of these blogs are to help each other get through this and it shouldn't matter how we do it.

There was something else the numerologist said that was a little eerie. I asked her about the guy I was with at the time. When we first started going out, he said to me on several occasions, "I can take care of you", which I replied, "thanks, but I can take care of myself". So, she said he was a soul connection and we had been together in many passed lives. She said in one past life, there was a military invasion and he decided  to pack up the family and flee. He took a wrong turn and the carriage turned over and everyone was killed. She said that he came into this life feeling he needed to take care of me. She his said his life lesson was unconditional love, you are offering it, but he is resisting it. He said to me once that he didn't know why I loved him, everyone always loved him for a reason and when it was ending he said that I didn't need him enough. She said that we will meet again in our next life. Personally, I feel one life was enough. I'm not saying she was for real, but it is a true story.

You are and old soul. The songs you chose came out when I was young. There are many songs that I could pick to represent my BP relationship, but the top two would be Brick by Ben Folds Five (she's/he's a brick and I'm drowning slowly) and Bizarre Love Triangle by Frente  is a good one. My favorite breakup movie is Forgetting Sarah Marshall

If you can hear a beat, then you can learn to dance. It's just learning steps and all it takes is practice. If you give up on things easily, then you probably won't like it. It's so much fun once you get it. I like the country two-step, but there are not very many places to go around here, unless you want to drive a hour or so. Now if you live in Texas or Nashville, you won't have a problem.

I'm sorry to hear about your agoraphobia and I'm glad that you are doing better. I can see how this type of emotional drama could cause that. My daughter suffers from anxiety and panic attacks. I had to take three weeks off work last year around this time to help here out.

I have a question, what does the SO in the box to the left of posts mean? Also I thought I saw something while searching that said a post was closing because it was too long, could that be correct









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« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2020, 07:17:10 PM »

I reckon it maybe shorthand for "significant other" not entirely sure on that though B53.

Topic closed, too long?' happens sometimes ive not really thought much of it.

Sorry for going off topic and also I reflected on my post, I very much hope it did not sound dismissive of numerology I apologise if it did.

I'm sorry to hear about your agoraphobia and I'm glad that you are doing better. I can see how this type of emotional drama could cause that.

Thanks, although im not sure id give my ex that as a trophy or blame. felt stalked by her throughout the relationship as much as during the split ups. I feel I understand it better now, the meaning of 'stalked' but with context of BPD to go with it - I never had that back then. So by the time no-contact day arrived, sitting around at home for a month is going grey-rock, I started here first reading then joining in. I didnt just stop contact with her, the friends which I had became also "hers" - work colleagues eventually too. The process of it happening, I saw nothing problematic, it became a problem and my world overnight became very small and isolated. Down to a handful plus my family who have been the rock through this. So spending too much time indoors is a bit weird to finally have to go outside, and the anxiety from the relationship was heightened to go with that. I was fortunate and now more grateful in hindsight to reach out and given a support scaffold to start work on. I was so rare in life a "reacher-outter", it felt it was the last card to use that was left. In other words, I still feel a sense of surreal to be here, hundreds of posts in.  

 Im sorry your daughter has that level of anxiety and pleased to hear she has you.

Im not much of a wordsmith B53, "chat" might sound too lackadaisical for what we are both doing here. maybe "hard work" should substitute.

  

Personally, I feel one life was enough.

was wondering if you felt like sharing what the real you thought of the numerologists findings? (instead of the persona)  

Thanks enjoyed listening to those songs, I had not heard before. I dont have one for my ex anymore, I did, they became dissociated over time. Hope you are finding stuff to keep the covid boredom at bay. Ive started to read a lot more, joined a zoom reading club. I will look into finding a dance instructor B53, something for now to look foward to, thanks for the encouragment. all the best.
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« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2020, 10:24:26 PM »

Cromwell,
The day was going so well, then my worst fear came true. The dreaded email. It was short. He said that his therapist told him it was over. He said it wasn't unexpected, but disappointing.He said that I'll be on his health insurance until the end of the year. He wants to stop by after the holidays and get the rest of his stuff. I told him that I was more than disappointed but I have to accept the reality that our relationship was based on attachment and not real love. That there was the possibility that he could recover, but unless he was willing to get inpatient treatment, there is no way to tell how long it would take. That he has broken up with me four times in the last six months and I don't see that ending anytime soon. I told him that I will be away over the holiday and he can come get his stuff then. At the end I sent him the copy of part of an article that tells about why the BPD relationship is not love. I know my words were wasted, but it was really for me, not him. I knew that I was going to receive this email at some point because there were still lose ends. I really don't want to piss his off, until I get the health insurance taken care of. I asked him not to write back. I will be surprised if he starts bothering me, though I have been surprised before. His therapist said to let her know if he does. What I thought was a little strange was that when I ended it with his therapist, she said goodbye and sounded like we would talk again. Maybe she was just being polite.

I'm sad, but I hold the image of the last time he left and took his stuff and left the key. I try to think of the good times and see him as a child in the oversized suit. Right now, I am feeling sorry for myself and negative self talk of why couldn't of it worked out. I'm tired, I just want to find peace. Then there is a part of me that is glad it's finally over.

I know how it feels to have your ex being involved in other parts of your life. You're lucky to have family. My family is a mess. My mother was a narcissist and she had a covert way of pitting her children against each other. Apparently I was perceived as the favorite, which doesn't make me the favorite sibling. They can't see that she didn't love any of us. My brother and sister wanted so badly to hear her say that she loved them, I realized fairly young that it wasn't happening.Which is why I probably was the favorite, I left her alone. My sister has called me twice in six weeks (she's so supportive) and of course she mentioned that she's been talking to my ex about the beach.

Well I'll get back to you on the numerology thing when I'm thinking a little straighter.
 
 BTW I was reading one of the posts where the them was about thoughts of revenge. As you can probably tell by now, I have a song for everything. This is the best revenge song.
 Pray for you by Jaron and the Long Road of Love
 
Thanks for reading my rant.
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« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2020, 05:16:05 AM »

Hey B53,

Sorry to hear you've received 'the email' even if you knew it was coming. I have to admit I'm triggered by email now as I've received quite a few of 'the email's' and they never seem to be news I want or like.

Reading your posts and various discussions with Cromwell I wanted to circle back on a couple of things I picked up on. Firstly, your codependancy, and secondly your perception of love or not love.

The term codependancy is batted around a lot these days and sometimes I believe it's poorly applied to people. To me codependancy is where an individual is reliant on a another persons dysfunction for something or a sense of self. A mother who doesn't want her son to leave so buys drugs for him, if he were to leave (and maybe get clean) she would be lonely. A husband who buys drink for his wife feeding her alcoholism because it gives him a sense of superiority over her when she's drunk and chaotic. Left to buy her own drink she might get sober and realise she can do better than him and leave, he would be lonely and believes he won't find anyone else. When people use the term codependancy they see acts of kindness as somehow 'with agenda', like a transaction. To me there is another set of people and actually these people are not so sick after all, they just need a little bit of training to value their own effort, value themselves and learn to allocate their own resources better. Some call this group caretakers or enablers. I guess it depends on the nuances and motivations and it's a fine line. If I think about what a healthy relationship looks like, in an ideal world I see the following (using stick people as examples:

Healthy relationship -    ||   two people standing strong on their own two feet... but sometimes one has needs support   /|   and sometimes the other person needs support    |\   and maybe sometimes they both need to support each other /\ . Each person brings different skills to the relationship and in an ideal world those skills compliment each other such that over time the support each other offers to the relationship is equitable. BOTH parties show kindness, caring and supportive behaviour actually even when the other person doesn't deserve it. Both parties are outward looking and in many respects looking to put the other person before themselves in acts of loving generosity... and you see if both parties are doing that there's no net loss to either party, for what they are giving away in some areas they are receiving in others since both parties are giving away their surplus. It's a symbiotic relationship.

Unhealthy relationship - One party is persistently reliant on the other |\ or /|  . There might be short periods where the supportive party forces the supported partner to stand up   | |  but this is often met with resentment or punishment, similarly when the supportive partner needs support the supported partner may feel uncomfortable and run away  / ...<run>...|  . Another outcome could be where the supportive partner spends so much time supporting the other they both end up flat on the floor as the supportive partner finally breaks _ _ . This is a sacrificial or parasitic relationship. 

I suppose the point I am getting at is that I see you talk about some of your amazing qualities as a person you have as negatives or part of a sickness. When in actual fact they are things to be treasured, things that are ABSOLUTELY necessary for a strong healthy relationship. These are the corner stones of agape love. The trick is to find someone whom will do 2 things... not take too much of you, and permit you to take some of them. Both parties should give, both parties should benefit and both parties should thrive. The sum should be greater than the parts.

To my second point... Love or not love and is there a clear delineation between the two. People have attempted to define love for centuries, people way smarter than me, so I'll not try and break new ground there other than to describe what I think constitutes agape love. You've raised 3 kids I see, so you know that loving a baby is different from loving a teenager in a practical sense (demonstrating your love) but much the same from a fundamental perspective.   In a practical sense you loved your babies enough to want to change their nappies or to feed them, but as your children grew older you loved them enough to buy them new clothes... BUT, you also loved them enough to allow them to be them, you loved them enough to be able to let them do things that were uncomfortable for you or against what you would want, because you knew they had a rite to be who they wanted to be. You were able to deal with your own discomfort putting them before you. This to me is the defining point where those with personality disorders be that NPD or BPD fall down. They're not fully capable of putting others needs before their own. I'm not sure I'd say that they are not capable of love or what happens is not love, but it certainly seems to me that if you're constantly searching for things to love you (and meet your needs) and be shown love by others, you're never likely to experience love, since love requires one to give to others, to place others before yourself. Love becomes a transaction  where the currency is rescue and the reward might be momentary adoration. My love for my kids at the moment is being demonstrated by standing back and allowing them to make a complete mess of the kitchen whilst they try and cook cakes... and then helping them clear up the mess afterwards. Your Mum probably loves you, she just loves you in her own particular way, unfortunately it would seem she's so all consumed by her own needs she feels she has little in the way of surplus to give away to others, or what surplus she does have she is entitled (because of her endless hardship) to keep for herself.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings

New-Life
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« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2020, 10:51:43 AM »

New-Life,
Thanks for your rambling. It was informative and insightful. I received an email back fro my ex. And this what he wrote.

I’ve come to learn how powerful your words can be to me and so I have only read the first 2 lines of your email which will be the context of my response.  I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with you.  My side of our relationship was based on love.  I loved you then and I love you now.  As incomprehensible as it is, that was how my mind expressed love.  It’s how I received love as a child and so it was what was developed in my childhood brain.  Over the past 33 days, I’ve been immersed in an self-imposed program or journey of deep thinking, self-reflection and learning.  As painful as it is to admit, I’ve come to realize that I did the same thing to you that my parents did to me.  And you reacted in the same way as I did.  You rose up and revolted against me.  So I can understand your pain.  I have a lot of my own pain, and I also carry the pain of you & XXX & of many other people that I’ve hurt along the way.  I can only rightfully allow myself to at most be disappointed.  I brought this on myself.  I’ve let you down so many times now that I really can’t let myself think that the odds are good for you to be willing to keep believing in me.  So as much as I want to, I can’t be the one to make the decision about where the relationship goes from here.  You have to be the one to decide if you want to believe in me.  I’ve been journaling most of this journey that I’ve been on and I’m willing to share with you some of what I’ve written about the highs and lows along the way if it might help. 
with real love XXX

You wrote
  BOTH parties show kindness, caring and supportive behaviour actually even when the other person doesn't deserve it. Both parties are outward looking and in many respects looking to put the other person before themselves in acts of loving generosity... and you see if both parties are doing that there's no net loss to either party, for what they are giving away in some areas they are receiving in others since both parties are giving away their surplus. It's a symbiotic relationship.

This to me is the defining point where those with personality disorders be that NPD or BPD fall down. They're not fully capable of putting others needs before their own. I'm not sure I'd say that they are not capable of love or what happens is not love, but it certainly seems to me that if you're constantly searching for things to love you (and meet your needs) and be shown love by others, you're never likely to experience love, since love requires one to give to others, to place others before yourself. Love becomes a transaction  where the currency is rescue and the reward might be momentary adoration.

I think that what he said kind of proves your point. He couldn’t even finish reading what I had to say. He couldn’t take the discomfort. He expects me to read what he has to say, but is unwilling to let me be heard.

It would seem that his email would be difficult and the best would be NC, but for me it is just reinforcing the reason we are ending this.

It’s interesting that he knows that it has been 33 days, I had no idea how long it’s been.

Your thoughts?
Thanks, B53
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« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2020, 11:09:05 AM »

Hi B53

The day was going so well, then my worst fear came true. The dreaded email. It was short.

Sounds like you expected one to arrive, and it eventually did, but that it arrived today came as a bit of a surprise to how the day otherwise was going.

I can recall vividly the first text I got after such a long time, 9 months no contact. That was 2 years ago, if I was asked to describe it - so many other memories have faded, that one is vivid-recall. (how I "felt") from seeing it, to opening it, to reading the content. So I relate to think that today might very likely be a very big thing to go through. Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

I'm tired, I just want to find peace.

 it can be a lot to go through all at once, energy sapping and in the midst of it my own experience - being reactive was so common for me. sometimes it seemed to work out ok, other times I felt pressured to, sort of brain stalled but responding like a learned automatic reflex and the end result was mixed results, except for a feeling of being each time overwhelmed, not in control of the pace, vulnerable emotionally.

If this is familiar in any way, I'd like to give friendly reminder - you have these options - to delay, distance, rest and take what can feel too much into bitesize amounts. If there is this pressure, that you have the option to let it gradually vent to a state you feel better about. There is time later to reflect too.  

here for you B53, all of us, a few clicks away whenever that may be. see you later.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Cromwell
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« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2020, 04:06:49 PM »

Thanks Cromwell,
It’s nice to know, that there are people who care. When I was writing my ex the email that I sent him, I went on line looking for an article to quote about how  BP love. It was strange as well as ironic. It didn’t seem to matter how I worded my search, the articles that kept coming up seemed to include how successful therapy was for BPD. In the past I might have taken it as a sign.

Did you read the email that my ex wrote that I put in my response to New-Life? I would like to know  your thoughts on it. 

I didn’t sleep well last night and I’m feeling sad. I would like to believe that we could end this all maybe feeling sad but realizing it is for the best on both sides. I don’t think that it is going to happen. I expect there may be a tantrum from him, when it finally sinks in.
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Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
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