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Author Topic: Triangulation, have I switched roles? Insights appreciated  (Read 487 times)
KarmasReal
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« on: November 29, 2020, 01:10:20 AM »

I have posted here many times before. I sadly feel like I am not progressing from my breakup as quickly as I should with the information about bpd I have gathered here and other places.  I broke up with my ex of 6 years (mind you on and off about 7 or 8 times) in June of this year.  In my mind the one fact that is different is I know this time I will not return to any type of monogamous relationship with her.  However she has texted a few times in the past month, she is apparently seeing some guy from a bordering state an hour away from us, she says we should be "best friends", I know that is folly but said alright, especially during the pandemic I have a severely impaired social life and am lonely.  Basically over the last 2 weeks she charmed sent pics to me, aggressively seduced me, and we have ended up sleeping together twice.  I reached out to her about something tonight and she basically blew me off, saying she was ill, maybe she was but I know she lies so well, so who knows.  It was short and stand off-ish, the last two times I have seen her she was warm and loving and excited to see me. 

So what is going on?

Is she triangulating me with this new guy? Much as she did with her ex and me.  Is she using me to alleviate engulfment or abandonment from this new situation?  I thought she actually did not want to lose me but now it seems like she is using me in some manner, to make him jealous, or to feed her ego, I don't know. 

Does anyone have any experience with this?  Am I better to just cut all contact again, even though I am lonely right now?  Should I just not worry about it as I am no longer in a relationship with her so what she does has no affect on me as far as her lying and cheating.  She is doing it to this guy not me so does it even matter?  Sorry for the word vomit I am just oscillating back in forth, I don't really want to cut contact but I don't want to be used as some sort of pawn in whatever game she plays with people either. 

Thanks for the help!
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Rev
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2020, 07:38:58 AM »

Hey Karma,

There are two things here... 

1) The general head games that people play during breakups.

2) The amped up effect of BPD which makes the staying power of #1 much more complicated.

My mentor - who helped me get out of a really awful situation said it this way - Rev - you can't just have a little bit of heroin.

So my friend - cut her off. There are no half measures if she is behaving this way.

Tell me - what was your relationship like?   What kind of manipulations did you live with... and... HOW much of that did you live with - like - every day?  Why did you break up?  How did that go down?

I ask you these things in response to your comment about the breakup effects not fading "as fast as they should" (or something to that effect).  Sometimes it helps to remind ourselves how much needs to be cleaned out (like root canal - you gotta get it all or the infection comes back).

All the best. Hope this helps.  Stay safe.

Rev
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2020, 08:40:38 AM »

I sadly feel like I am not progressing from my breakup as quickly as I should with the information about bpd I have gathered here and other places.

If this is what you feel, than maybe its time to do something different. You have studied BPD, which I presume would be your ex, or partner. I have to ask. What have you uncovered about yourself?

However she has texted a few times in the past month

This would be a temperature experiment. To see where you sit. Your response would dictate the next move.

I reached out to her about something tonight and she basically blew me off,

What appeared to be blowing you off, was a coping mechanism to keep the fear of engulfment (annihilation) from consuming them. This is what intimacy does to the illness.

So what is going on?

Maybe the inability to radically accept the illness, comes to mind. There is an order to the disorder. Nobody is above the disorder, its an equal opportunity offender.

Is she triangulating me with this new guy? Much as she did with her ex and me.

Yes. This is a staple of mental illness, all are welcome to play. The only way off is as the victim.

Is she using me to alleviate engulfment or abandonment from this new situation? 

Yes. The illness typically takes a few weeks, to start the life long repeated cycle. As the mirror starts to crack ( as it ALWAYS does) a new supply (or recycled one) will be lined up for a safety net. The alternative is death to the illness. Its not about sex, but the attachment. Sex is the tool for attachment. It works.

Does anyone have any experience with this?  Am I better to just cut all contact again, even though I am lonely right now?

Yes plenty. Actually dating a person I suspect has strong traits of a hermit BPD/NPD... What to do depends on what youre looking for, from the relationship. Cutting all contact would be a direction for detaching. Is this what you would like to see happen? Im a single person, live alone, but no longer have feelings of loneliness. Have you spoken to a therapist ? This really would be a great place to start and it has nothing to do with her. Unfortunately, she appears to be a trigger for your trauma. However in retrospect, this is the only time you could start figuring out your own short comings. They are front and center, waiting to be solved. I hope you pursue.

She is doing it to this guy not me so does it even matter?

Shes doing it to the both of you and possibly others if available.

I don't really want to cut contact but I don't want to be used as some sort of pawn in whatever game she plays with people either.


You dont get one without the other. Radical acceptance of the illness should super seed this line of thinking. Wont stop the feelings for a while, but hopefully the actions. I wish you well, Peace





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B53
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2020, 10:47:55 PM »

It seems like there are a lot of stories on here that are very similar to yours. I understand the lonely part because I am going through that also. I like what Rev said, you can't have just a little heroin.That's so true. It doesn't sound like you are ready to let her go. Therapy, would be a good first step. I would suggest someone who is familiar with BPD and abuse. It's really hard when your heart won't listen to your head. Hope you feel better!
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2020, 05:55:50 AM »

Hey Karma,

I don't know whether or not it's a modern thing or whether or not it's always been a thing... but what I can see is that in this modern day of technology 'we' often attempt to extrapolate out huge swathes of meaning from small interactions. I had a chat with my D12 the other night, we were talking about how it really annoys us when we see the 2 blue ticks in whatsapp yet no response to a question. She experiences this with her best friend and I experience it with my STBXw. We interpolate meaning and motivation behind someone seeing our requests for information yet not responding. My D said that she'd called her best friend out on it a few times and her friend said "Sorry I was watching a movie with my Mum". Yet at the time it was painful for my D and she extracted her best friends mood from it.

She was cold in this interaction, warm last week, yet today we've deduced all sorts of feelings and motivations she has, based on a small conversational transaction. To me this highlights a couple of things. You know that your ex's conversational transactions are not honest, so therefore you look deeper for meaning and you're hypervigilent for that meaning. It would suggest you're not able to take what she says as is... i.e. she's unwell today... and if you can't take what she says at face value what hope is there of ever having a meaningful relationship with this person, even from a friendship stance. How much time, effort and emotional energy do you want to invest in this person knowing that your ability to take what they say at face value in a simple conversational transaction is impaired? She lies, you know she lies and you can't un-know that she lies.

So what is it that is keeping you hooked to this level of effort and subsequent confusion, knowing you're always going to have to second guess her ability to be truthful and/or her motivations?

New-Life
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2020, 10:48:51 AM »

Hello Karma,

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles with your ex. Reading your post and FindingMe2011's response to you really helped get me back on track, as there are some similarities with your situation and mine.

My ex-g/f and I never had any breakups during our nearly two year relationship, but there was frequent push/pull behavior along with constantly changing goals, viewpoints, etc. Rarely did she ever finish anything she started, and she was "sick" all of the time. It's my opinion that her mental health issues affected her physical health as well. During the last 4 months of our relationship, she exhibited a lot of off the wall behavior like accusing me of being ashamed of being intimate with her (have no idea where that came from). Three weeks before the breakup, she questioned me and asked if I was interested in a female co-worker of mine that I was training and said "Do I need to be concerned about her?" This individual is 20+ years younger than me, is married, and is expecting a child. Totally irrational on my ex's part.

My uBPD ex-g/f and I broke up about 7.5 months ago. She desperately wanted engagement/marriage from me, but I couldn't commit to that until she attempted to address her severe emotional issues and her children's emotional issues. Throughout our relationship, she acknowledged these issues and said she needed help. At the time of the breakup, she stated that she was fine and did not need professional help. We talked about trying to reconcile and possibly go to couples counseling. She never followed through. Instead, she hooked back up with her rebound guy that she had an affair with after she left her ex-husband. One morning she sent me a text message telling me about her date with this guy and almost seemed proud of herself while she rubbed it in my face.  Oddly enough, she discarded this guy to start seeing me about two years earlier. 

Shortly after that happened, I went into full no contact mode back in May and actually told her to leave me alone. I also  removed her from all of my social media. Starting back in September, I started receiving social media blips from her, one in September and one in October. Towards the middle of October, I received a text message from her regarding a household item that I gave to her nearly two years ago. She said she no longer needed it and would like to return it to me. If not, she wanted my permission to give it away. When I gave her this item, I specifically told her I no longer wanted it and was going to donate it to a local charity if she didn't take it. There's no doubt she was using this item as a reason just to contact me to see what type of response that she would receive. Three weeks ago, I had a brief visit from her while my child and I were outside playing basketball. Her family lives next door to me.

This visits, texts, etc. from her set me back back some. I've found myself rehashing the breakup periodically and being angry at her for moving on so quickly, etc.  Prior to when all of that stuff started, I feel like I was doing fairly well at putting this behind me. As I said, reading what you all had to say put things back into perspective for me and has helped me get back on track.

Like you, I think my is trying to triangulate me with her current b/f. I've heard she has been hitting him for marriage or a live in arrangement, but he hasn't obliged her. Maybe he is shifting to the persecutor role and she's looking for another savior. I miss the good times from our relationship, but I'm no longer interested in playing those games.   It's just not worth the heartache and confusion for me or my child that still misses my ex. It's been three weeks now since I've had any contact, and I'm starting to feel better about things again. Hopefully it will stay that way. I can't completely avoid her since her parents live next door to me, therefore, I can't completely avoid her.

I wish you well in attempting to move on. These types of relationships are just so hard to recover from.  Just try not to get sucked in again and maybe seek some professional counseling to help you process things. It's very hard to process BPD behavior, which makes no sense to us "Nons".  I see a counselor every other week, and she warned me months ago that it would be likely I'd hear from my ex again. She was right. Please keep us up to date on your progress. You've gotten some very good advice from Rev and FindingMe.
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2020, 02:35:04 AM »

love triangles are not the same thing as the karpman drama triangle (what is commonly referred to here as "triangulation"). you may be in the former.

having said that, there tends to be a lot of drama in both.

there arent clear loyalties. there are no commitments.

what is going on?

shes testing the waters of a potential new relationship. its long distance. its not clear how established or committed it is.

youre lonely, you have some feelings for her, and if possible, youd like the good without the bad. shes probably in a pretty similar place.

the key difference is that she has some unknown level of investment elsewhere. a sexual encounter, even with a past history, isnt going to have the same bearing on her as it would for someone in your circumstances.

Excerpt
Does anyone have any experience with this?  Am I better to just cut all contact again, even though I am lonely right now?  Should I just not worry about it as I am no longer in a relationship with her so what she does has no affect on me as far as her lying and cheating.  She is doing it to this guy not me so does it even matter?  Sorry for the word vomit I am just oscillating back in forth, I don't really want to cut contact but I don't want to be used as some sort of pawn in whatever game she plays with people either.

i think the question is really are you emotionally prepared for this sort of arrangement, and the answer is that you may not be. it requires realistic expectations, it requires a certain level of detachment, and it requires, frankly, not seeing this as one person using the other, but seeing it as two exes hooking up, and the low level of potential that ultimately has.

what do you think?
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KarmasReal
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2020, 07:03:16 PM »

Once removed,

I agree it is sort of a love triangle, minus the love from my part, I am quite detached as I have seen the full extent of how her disorder manifests into hurting all of her exes and using her sexuality as a weapon.  If not for my understanding of why she does these things I would be nauseated by her actions.  This is kind of a stop gap for me as dating new people is close to impossible at this stage of where we are in the world, at least in my area. 

As for the drama triangle you mentioned, she has started to go from really trying to make this guy sound impressive and make me jealous, to telling me all the things that are wrong with him and how she doesn't even see it as a real relationship.  And this last time we hung out she was much more kind to me instead of calling me an asshole and sleeping with me she kept saying I was her favorite person, she loved me, its so unfair that we are perfect for each other but we didn't work out in the relationship.  So it does seem as their is a switch here in persecutor, rescuer, etc. or maybe I am reading too much into she was very drunk, although she is very drunk all the time as this is an issue for her. 

I just want to make sure me and her will be on the same page with this and she won't try to get me back, as that is something I could just never do again, I like how we are now although she said she wanted to be friends and we basically just hook up and never talk, I kind of wanted a friendship too but it doesn't seem like that's possible.  Its funny typing all of this I know how this all will progress I kind of feel silly for asking for advice when I have been through this so many times I can literally see the future in this instance.  But I do value all the support.  Thank you for that it has helped me get through some tough times. 
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