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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Nautica

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: single
Posts: 3


« on: November 30, 2020, 11:50:17 AM »

Im a 35 male straight for reference. This is going to be long so i appreciate anyone that takes the time to read and respond. I was going through a breakup from a 2 year relationship with "jessica" and me and a coworker of 8 years " sara" were getting really close as she was also going through a breakup with "Joe" and she was a very positive fun person to be around. I dont jump from person to person so we were just friends and i needed time to process my previous relationship so tried to keep my distance for two months as my ex sarah was still pursuing reconciliation while also triangulating me with a new guy and sending me pictures of them. It was messing me up. Me and Sara started hanging out outside of work and going for walks in parks and drinks and she was just the sweetest person, she had a crush on me for years and I guess she saw this as an opportunity. I wasnt ready for anything from anyone i needed time but she was very pushy. She stayed over on the weekends on the couch and was just always there for anything. As weeks went by we became romantic and she was full speed ahead sexually and emotionally although getting angry at weird things. I remember taking a shower for 10 minutes and coming out and there would be texts from her: 8:00pm "hey what are you up to", 8:02 " guess you dont want to talk to me anymore", 8:05 " im blocking you i cant believe you messed with my head". And she would block me. Then unblock me hours later. I would come out and respond and say what on earth are you talking about i was in the shower your acting so weird i dont really understand. ive never seen someone act that way.This was just the beginning. She would block me while sitting next to me having drinks with friends if something set her off. i would kid around with her about silly things like crushing a water bottle and say damn whatd that thing do to you. picking up popcorn off the livingroom floor after a movie. shed be in and out of the bathroom in 30 seconds and there would be pee on the floor or dripping on the lid so i told her to just slow down in life and relax. Each example she would curse me out and leave mad then block me then the next day apologize. I told her the blocking is crazy and i dont understand. She said she blocks people so she cant be nasty to them. or listen to nasty messages. I didn't send any ever. She said it was from her previous relationship. Then at points told me shes always done that. One time her friend text her changing plans because of her four kids. Sarah took it wrong and blocked her. Like she blocks people all the time then unblocks them. I said you misinterpreted what you friend was saying, she said oh your right and unblocked them(these are lifelong 15 year friends only 5 and maybe they just are ok with how she is). So ive never heard of BPD. Looking back all of these thing i guess she took as some deep hurtful criticism like i was going to abandon her. She would come by the next day and "say do you still like me, and i would say yes i like you i just dont like how you keep blowing up nasty then leaving so please stop". She would write a cute note on my eraser board and buy dinner and wed be back to happyville. It was once a month then eventually once a week. We were together a year. This continued on, sometimes friends were there and saw it in front of their face and told her to relax that shes upset over nothing.(obviously everyone is entitled to their feelings but it seemed the reactions never matched the situation of a tiny comment or joke to a full blown i guess breakup or her leaving). I have a million examples and situations. Im just going to leave them out because of the length of this already. the more i care about her and basically had already fallen for her, her leaving and blocking me started hurting me. So i told her it did. All petty weird things, she said i knitpick on her and i said i didnt mean it that way. She said i get mad at her for these things. I said i was never mad they are silly and i guess i shouldnt have pointed them out but i wasnt mad, i said you get mad because you think im mad then leave. i said dont tell me how i feel i am telling you, but you can tell me how it made you feel. The times she didnt leave ive seen her go from happy, to rage mad, to happy, to super sex mode, and then we managed to have a good night. So then on my 35th birthday she was at my parents outside because of covid on the deck. They made us some four course meal and cake and everything else. We had a great time. We came to my place after and she wanted to take shots(everything seemed to always get worse when she drinks). So we take three shots of fireball. She started muttering "if we keep fighting were not going to make it", three times in a row. i said please stop saying that we had a great night and its my birthday noones fighting. She said your mad so im gonna leave. I said im not mad but its upsetting your saying things like that during a fun night. She grabbed her stuff and left. i finally text her im done i hate she did this once again on my birthday and shell never change. I had a bunch of drinks and slept half the day the next day, i guess she thought i meant it and maybe i did at the time. the next day she wouldnt answer me, the following day was mean then blocked me. kept me blocked. Like ghosting. i thought its totally crazy because we work together so im going to see her the following day in person. So at work im like wtf are you doing. She says why are you dragging out this breakup. I said i didnt even know we were breaking up i thought you were doing your little tantrum thing. So tones changed drastically with her. Like i was noone (she was the pursuer and obsessed with everything the whole time, i was kind of sitting back analysing it and getting through my previous breakup pain but always treated her like gold, flowers , open car doors etc., things noones ever done, cooked, cleaned, taught her things, took her place, always told her she was beautiful. (she has some food thing where she binges once of more a week then goes to the gym everyday to burn 1000 calories a day but is depressed that day and other days). I always thought these mood swings was all based on the food issue i had never heard of BPD. i tried not to even get my feelings caught up in self defense but i did.) So then she was like gone. Ignore me at work after that one talk. She walked around anxious and nervous. I actually felt so horrible watching her feel that way at work because of me, I felt the same but I am able to not show it on the outside and maintain my composure. Then she would text me why dont i care, then if i said i care she would tell me to F off. This went on two weeks. She said leave her alone she needed space. She said she doesnt think i like her or care. I sent her a beautiful email letter(because i was blocked) apologizing for making her feel i didnt like her because of the silly nit picks, she mad made me feel so guilty and flipped everything on me, so i said go have your space and call me one day if you change your mind. Then when pondering the next morning factors made me think weird things about the guy she was on off for 6 years.(allegedly he used her sexually and would ditch her then get back and on and off and on and off, He would email her every two weeks like clockwork(because he was blocked on the phone, go figure Laugh out loud (click to insert in post))I asked her if she was talking to her ex again. She told me no and lied directly to my face.I found his address and took a ride past on that weekend. Sure enough her car was there the whole weekend. Im not a stalker or psycho but i don't like being lied to and had a deep intuition. Ive never seen anything like this. The next day must have been right when she left his house she text me i miss you soo much and can we talk. We were texting back and forth (shes never been able to handle a phone or in person cono when it comes to conflict) . She said cant you just give me time to calm down i cant breathe( i know she just had a sex festival for two days). I pretended not to know just to see what she had to say which was nothing really. So finally after knowing for four days i said i dont get it you said you need time alone but just F'ed your ex all weekend. She said see your crazy assuming things this is why we don't work. I let her lie for two days then finally told her i saw the car there. Because she seemed like she was trying to come back. I know people do that but to me its so dirty especially a week after a breakup. So to make this shorter to the point she kept getting mad if ignored her at work like texting me. She tried to be friends which i declined. i saw her so anxious there i tried but then she would text me criticizing me how i was acting at work. Then two days later she emailed me to never contact her again. So i didnt. Then three days later she text and emailed me " are you ever going to talk to me again or am i just a monster now". I waited an hour to respond and was blocked already. I was so angy and hurt and confused and still am. I cant believe i sent that letter and she was at the dudes house when she read it and emailed me saying it was beautiful, then text me she missed me right when she left his house. I felt like i sat here caring about her feeling all this time like she was some innocent victim and i was the devil, when in reality she just did all of the worst things a person can do to someone and really has no remourse. Her response was we were broken up and not together so she did nothing wrong. So finally i pulled her aside at work and told her i am sorry but i am going to ignore you at work and not say hi and i will never contact you again. She almost cried and didnt understand why we cant even be work friends. I just said its time to worry about my own mental health at this point and that she honestly is just dirty to me now. She had avoided me at work moslty because it isnt an office job and we work like a block away in a "yard". So then the next week all of a sudden she was hanging out in the break room i spend time in that she never goes in and knows im in there at that time. I walked in and she gave me this big hello and smile. I ignored her then said to my friend in the same room loud enough for her to here i dont know why you people are even having conversation with herter what she did and shes sitting in my chair, she heard yelled shut my mouth and walked out. That was 5 days ago. I was off the last five days. Theres so many other factors relating her to BPD such as cant drive from point A to B in short distance without beeping several times at cars like instant rage, blocking everyone, running immediately from conflict(even when its a loving conversation). Getting rage mad in a split second then back to normal, no patience, no remorse, suicidal thoughts even though she wouldnt act on them, depressed then happy constant mood fluctuations for hours or days. I saw a psychologist and she immediately said she is BPD or most traits, and i guess im the empathetic codependent fixer in life so as i tried more and more to put boundaries against leaving and blocking and cursing me out and then just letting it keep happening eventually she started calling me a little bitch like she needed me to go back at her. Im no angel in the last few weeks i wrote couple of nasty emails calling her names based on that guy situation, and calling her out on all these actions and basically abandoning me when all i tried to do was make her comfortable and talk to her about what has been going on. So ill end it there. I know its kind of all over the place because honeslty my mind and heart are. I still miss her and love her. I dont think shell ever reach out again from my last comment in that break room. My friend saw her car at the guys house two days ago so either they are back together or she uses him once in a while for comfort and sex. I just feel so down and angry and sad and im just going to ignore her at work. But it hurts just even see her car everyday and pass by her in the hall. I just cant seem to let it go. It just consumes my mind, im past the point of reaching out or trying but will never understand this instant change then "discard", like i was nothing. For the record the other guy works at my job but a far away location so not directly with me. Im a good looking guy in awesome shape with moeny and a BMW and was looking for houses and taking her with me. This other dude is pardon my judgement but ugly and lives with his parents at 40 and noone at my job likes him and has nothing positive to say about him. (im not implying im better then anyone or cars or things matter but im just a well liked good person and everyones best friend) I guess what im saying is my ego was broken twice by this. I cant even get myself to want to talk to another girl at this point. Ive always taken breakups hard and always had long 4,5,3,2 year relationships with people but for some reason this one just has me broken inside. I know the advice is maybe to block her and forget her ( hard when i have to see her 5 days a week). But more internally i need advice how to let go or stop pursuing answers and solutions in my mind. The psychologist thinks i dont really need to be there as i am "normal" and level headed but maybe somehwat codependent and maybe always have been. I guess the knight in shining armor complex that will never walk away from someone who needs me even when it involves breaking me down. Any comments or advice would be nice. Maybe a book idea, ive read some on breakups, how to deal with a breakup, get an ex back, BPD, they all just seem to keep me more stuck inside this loop and maybe are not even healthy at this point. Nothing seemed to make sense in my mind until i read more about BPD. I guess i feel like if i knew this ahead of time i wouldnt have pointed out silly things or made her know that just because she does them doesnt mean i dont like her, that i do like or love her and they dont matter. I dont know i have all this guilt and pain but i know that these situations i described and left out wouldnt be anything with other people without these issues. In a sad way i even feel sorry for her. But i feel more sorry for me.Thanks for reading.
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Websters Mom

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married but currently seperated.
Posts: 5


« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2020, 06:27:14 PM »

First, let me say how sorry I am you are going through this. I can relate. I am as well. I, too, regret how I handled MOST things in my 9-year marriage. In retrospect, my responses and reactions were geared toward someone I believed to be at the same emotional maturity level I am. I was wrong. We share the fact that neither of us knew about BPD. I quite frankly kick myself daily for not having identified the problem years ago. How different things would be...or would they? That is the problem we have. Regardless of what we said or didn't say, we were never going to win. The words we used could have perhaps been better chosen but the fact is once they went into their head they were respoken in a language only they can understand. I love my husband. I would do anything to break him from this hell he is in. I love him enough to realize I do not have the skill to do it. We have now reached a point where divorce is probable. Again, not because I do not love him but because he has identified me as a trigger for his pain. He loves me he says but because I cause him pain he cannot be married to me. It is enough to make your head spin. I can honestly say there is nothing you did or said that made her situation worse. She was spinning out of control before you met her and without help, she is going to be spinning for life. The hardest part of this for me to accept is that even with help, there is no "quick fix". You will always be on alert for the "next" episode. You are NOT responsible for this. It is a horrendous disorder that leaves a path of destruction in its path. I struggle to get from minute to minute because the pain of this separation is so hard yet I know..there is no happy ending to be found. I only regret I did not know that 9 years ago. Give yourself a break. You did not cause it and you, unfortunately, cannot fix it. I wish you could. I would give you my husband's number.
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Inside
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 604



« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2020, 11:38:25 AM »

Like most successful pathogens, they don’t kill you, they weaken, then feed on you..  It's surreal how near identical both the BPD behavior, and the pain of their victims are.  I was there, 3 years worth, seven breakup-makeups, and as you’ve described, countless little things … that added up to the end.

I equate their effect on us to a strong narcotic.  They ‘mirror’ our likes & dislikes, ‘becoming’ who we most want or need.  But lacking a base identity (or nothing anyone would want anything to do with), pretending wears them out..  As the instant loss of that person who’d apparently meant everything to us, nearly destroys us. 

It’s interesting how they run for their own protection from reality, lie for convenience and disregard our feelings in order to protect their own.  They use us, they're like human parasites.  No, this is not how they want to be, but it’s how they’re wired, and always will be.  So they develop methods of behavior, perhaps survival, that project their deficiencies at us, leaving us in a heap … as they move on or bounce back to a previous ..meal.

As you’re looking for advice in moving on, though never having been addicted to drugs, I assume ‘getting them out of our system’ is akin to detoxing from heroin..  Glad you’ve seen a psychologist, and happy to find you’re ‘normal.’  I’d agree.  Me too.  But they’re not, and they target well, so we empathetic caregivers become the Bull’s Eye  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

My BPD ex had been recommended to me by a varied group of good friends; she’d pass through while making her rounds, never staying long enough to be ‘figured out.’  So every week, meeting with those friends for beer.. There she’d be, waiting for me.  Work would be worse, and that appears to happen often with them.  As they’re constantly searching for our replacements, those in close proximity are always targets.

NC - No Contact.  Not even eye contact - would be my advice.  Block her!  No more emails.  You must become free enough of the spell to move on.  For me, moving on wasn’t all that easy.  ‘Normal women’ seemed boring, slow, too cautious, too guarded … no fun, after my experience with human-heroin..  But as I’ve learned, they’re real, solid, trustworthy - and worth the time & effort. 

Best of all, real women can advance to the next level.  Like us.  Those with BPD cannot, as I’ll presume it’s one reason they constantly assume, ‘it’s over,’ because once a normal guy figures out they’re incapable of moving to a deeper level of sustained commitment, it is over for the BPD’d partner.  They know that, we don’t.

I’ll admit … the time I’d spent around here, books I read and research I did made it difficult to move on, but seemed the only way I could break the spell.  And while doing such research (to be certain there was no way to make it work with this woman I loved), it was impossible to move on to normal.  I’d had a thirty year marriage, so understood commitment…  But so damn much fun (between severe pain) during my 3 year stint with the BPD, that I simply wanted more..

Those with BPD are the stalkers.  Mine continued attempting to contact me for years, it’s been around six years past now.  They recirculate, as you’ve learned, between prior lovers.  No thanks.  I made a very serious move, across the nation.  She was not the primary reason, but in the mix..  But what I’d learned prior to moving was NC; no responses of any kind, for any reason.  Always hesitate -- when & if contacted - then don’t respond.  In your case, you might already be blocked for that hesitation! 

At work, create and maintain boundaries.  Let friends and coworkers know the crap she’s pulled, let that spread - and don't ever forget or forgive it yourself.  Don’t piss her off to the point of retaliation … but go up to the line of leaving her aware that you’re disgusted, and want nothing to do with her.  No similes, friendly messages - just no contact.  Learn what you need to about the disorder.  Relish the fact you’ve been declared ‘normal.’  Look for and eventually focus on someone worthy of your love. 

We can not feel sorry for the disordered to the point we sacrifice ourselves in misguided attempts to save them.  That effort must come from them.  Move on, and be strong  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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brighter future
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up
Posts: 277


« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2020, 04:02:11 PM »

Brilliant post, Inside! Two thumbs up
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JoeBPD81
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 709



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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2020, 05:11:00 AM »

Nautica and Websters Mom

I feel your pain. Phisically, I do, I read your stories, and I get nervous because I've been in those situations so many times. I've been in a RS with a woman with BPD for 6 years. In the beginning I knew she was a victim of abuse and suicidal. Mental health was always in the conversation. I knew about her eating dissorders, but it took some time for me to witness how serious that was, and then is when I started to reach out for help and knowledge.

Those red flags (mood changes, blocking, disproportionate reactions...) were there before we were a couple. But I thought she was just super cautions, because her ex turned out to be an abuser.

I invited her to move in with me because she was living with her mother, after getting away from her ex-husband, and the conditions were awful, and the relationship with her mother very stressing. She moved in with me with her 2 sons.

By that time we had had many mini-breakups. I was letting go of things in my life everytime I begged her to stay. Some weeks/months in, she was disagnosed with BPD (she had been also when she was 18 or so, but we hadn't talked about that). Immediatelly I researched, and it gave me hope, it explained everything!. My hope even lifted a weight of her, and we took it as good news, a good step in ending the pain she was always in.

I was here and even became an ambassador. What I try to say is that very early I learned about this, and started doing and saying the right things, not perfectly of course, but I was aware, and very focused on not triggering her, not fueling discussions etc. And it didn't change much. So don't beat yourself up about "If only I did this, or that..." You can avoid one fight once in a while. But this person needs proffesional help. No amount of love and understanding, not even wining the love of her sons...Will fix her/him.

My life has been nulified, and my only focus has been to keep her calmed, as if I lived with a tiger in my living room. And then, having some distractions to take the pain she causes me, and live to fight anothe day.

I've encouraged many people here to have faith, to improve their lives and work in the RS towards success. Some people get there. I've done my best, and it wasn't meant to be. I made a pact with myself that as long as she wanted to work on us, I would keep on. But she left therapy very early on, she doesn't take her meds, and she never tells me that she wants to be with me anymore. I'm not going to be with her, with her fighting me as an enemy.

I'm waiting for her to go, because no way I'm gonna kick her and two kids to the curve. And I still love her and have all the compassion for her, and all people with BPD. But I'm not making anyone happy by staying in this RS, I'm not helping, and I'm losing myself if I'm not lost already. I'm hopping to regain some will to live after they are gone.

Don't get to this point.

Don't try to make sense of what she feels, says or does to you. Mental illness makes its own sense, but it makes sense internally with her, not with you.

I'm even past the point as to think "Is she right about me?" Is my honesty, my good will, my love for her... all fake? all twistedly selfish? Am I making things worse because I have some terrible flaw as a human being?

I've talked to a friend about some episodes, and what I think afterwards, in the moment, and he told me "Dude, you have to kick her out, you've always been a great person with a huge heart, this is messing with your head, I can't believe what you are saying about yourself".

This is what happens when you are hell bent on trying to make sense of something that just doesn't. There are some pieces missing, this machine doesn't work. You didn't take the pieces out, you don't have the replacement, you are just going to get hurt if you stand on the side of this machine.

It's easier said than done, but I hope some words click and you can get out of this mental torture, and start to live again.
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We are in this together.
Nautica

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: single
Posts: 3


« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2020, 11:04:11 PM »

Sorry i didnt get notified of the responses and only see a general reply button not per message. I appreciate your responses. It has been hard. I kind of became a ghost at work as i can kind of just grab my assignment for the night and be on my own. But i left my social network alone there. I work a good federal job with a pension so relocating isnt possible. I know if i didnt make that last comment to her when she was leaving that room calling her a "B word" she prob would have still been contacting me. I knew if i did it she would paint me black and stay away. Part of me wishes she was harrassing and chasing me which im sure would have been happening. To the married woman i appreciate you saying no matter what i did or said wouldnt have changed anything, sadly i still think maybe it would have, even though deep down i agree. to the person who said he had a group of friends who recommended her as she past through undetected, that was the same for me. She was the poor innocent sweet girl that was used and abused by so many guys ( 9 other coworkers) that wouldnt even make her their GF and then ditched her, some were married, had GF's, Engaged, I was going through a breakup (i didnt know these things till after), it seems they kind of prey on people unhappy in their current situation or enjoy stealing the person away like they won. When i say "they like BPD" im not trying to insult people with the hmm undeveloped, untreated mind. But really i just see so many similarities among the grouping. I still contemplate making myself "white" for work to make her stress it. But i think "black" and nervous to even come near me and keep me blocked is better. Ive had a bipolar 5 year ex in the past (clinically diagnosed) and she was the sweetest then worst person. More sweet then bad times but still outweighed a life partner. But with this BPD person she has royally messed me up. Knowledge has given me light and guilt and regret, im still not sure how long it will take for me to forgive or forget. I want to just to ease my mind. But im still unbalanced and confused, ive thought of reaching out to make things "friendly" at work. But i know if i do that when her new(old) thing will crash and burn and shell be back to me, and honestly i dont even mind the episodes, but once a girl is with another guy i just cant do it anymore, besides it would be like a free pass to do it again. I wish i had never gotten involved. and yes normal chicks seem boring at this point, i havent tried, but ive seen them briefly pass by in my life. Its only been like six weeks so i guess things will get better after time. To be sickly honest sometimes i hope she calls begging remorse and forgiveness, but by now im sure im forever replaced and forgotten. Its so weird to be involved with a person who has this. Ive had exs always pop back up over the years or even their parents say im the one that got away. But it seems a person with BPD never looks back, unless they are out of options. Which just kind of shows anyone could be anyone. She F'd up my birthday and holidays. My friends dont really understand why i stress it so much, my family either. Im hoping i never experience this again in my life.
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Inside
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 604



« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2020, 11:47:31 AM »

Seems you’re on the road to recovery ...whatever that is..  But wow - she’s been through that many coworkers?  Considering STD’s, totally ending it with her could be an even smarter move than salvaging your mental health.. 

Give boring a chance ... I’ve found most women have a wild side, without waving it in the face of every guy they spot..  If nothing else right now is a good time to stay several steps back from ..the world.  Charge up, read & learn - get your shot … and move ahead in life with knowledge few others poses regarding the mentally disordered.
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