We had our "final" talk today

[cash05458]

B53, deep deep thanks for saying that ...I feel like I am working in the dark here (not here, this place and the people have been wonderful) ...trying but not sure how well I am doing...but trying to be honest with self...I know I am failing some at that as well but trying not to beat myself up as I know I had a lot of stuff dumped on me and most would have a hard time coping as I have...but thank you so much for saying that to me...it made my night...motivates me to get off my butt now and go hit my smart bike trainer (zwift) for a good hour of sweating...thank you B53!

[cash05458]

"Prepare yourself for the proverbial s*&t to hit the international fan."

Thanks for that Gems...I needed a good laugh...and humor helps take a little distance certainly...so thanks...very good... 

[cash05458]

Everyone, I guess the thing I am having trouble with, and I don't necessarily mean this from a jealous side only, but more deeply: to use an analogy, it is as if there was this glass filled with liquid...those were her feelings about us and me...and in the blink of an eye, that glass was decanted into another glass that was her and him...just automatic, and again, in the blink of an eye..Now, he  and they is/are everything...

I know this is a clunky, terrible analogy...

Rather, than say meeting someone and then getting to know slowly and it develops...it just simply goes from me and us, straight into a heavy love thing with him and her...as if her love simply transferred energy to another outlet at the click of the fingers...

That is something that I am thinking about, hurting about...and I am seeing the exact same beginning as we had play out, only with another...the total overevaluation, the love bombing, the total belief...as if she is simply under a spell...and it is not that I want to stop her at this point...but that leaves me feeling...well, not sure how that leaves me feeling exactly...

I of course don't work that way...and not judging morally...but I don't...when something ends, I can't think of another for quite a while ...that sort of in the blink of an eye and energy transference isn't possible with me. I know that is a good thing of course for myself...but still, it leaves me feeling confused about even what our reality was... I guess that it is that that idealized version of me she gave me is breaking down entirely when I see it transferred so quickly onto another...now he is the idealized one...and I am nothing in her eyes...perhaps that is a good thing that that is breaking down and that I face the truth of that..but god, it is painful...

[grumpydonut]

Cash, not the worst analogy I've read  

I'm sorry if this comes across as condescending (I have no idea what level of knowledge you have on BPD), but I'll try my best to explain - in my opinion - what you are seeing.

BPD is an attachment disorder, where a person suffering from said disorder feels they cannot survive on their own. They rely on an attachment to give them a sense of self, and their attachment is based completely on need and fantasy.

The reason she can instantly take her water full of emotions and put them into a new glass so quickly is because their attachment is shallow and based on fantasy. In her mind, the new person is a saviour (a good parent) - the one to deliver her from her emotional turmoil and undo her childhood trauma - while you are seen as the oppressor and cause of her emotional turmoil (you are her bad parent). When that fantasy fades, she may return to you to provide the fantasy (a reunion fantasy is a powerful emotional drug). Rinse, repeat. BPDs don't fall in love with who we are, but who they want us to be. Then reality appears (you and I aren't perfect people who can deliver them from emptiness and fear) and they find someone else to hide from their core wounds.

The reason it's difficult for you to comprehend is, likely, because you're healthy and  thus need time to recover from a relationship. BPDs do not need to recover, as recovery would require introspection and loneliness, and that is death to a BPD. Instead, they jump from relationship to relationship, telling themselves that the next attachment will be the one to make everything "right" in the world, only to follow the same pattern of failure and destruction.

[cash05458]

Grouchy...no, not condescending at all and thank you...yes, have been reading much much here...but that was a clear and succinct explanation and helps so much...might print out and put on fridge...(just kidding)...but great, thank you...

I am new here and have gotten noticed my topic is closed as it has hit limit...and this is archived I guess..could anyone advise proper protocol on if I wish to continue to speak with others here and also express things? simply leave this here? Is that the normal manner? I hope I havent posted too much adn that might be the reason they closed thread...

[cash05458]

oops...did not mean to start a new thread...not even sure how that happened...could anyone advise? Really want to follow protocol here and as as what is proper...thank you...

[Gemsforeyes]

You’re fine Cash.  The mods needed to split the thread because it got so long.  You can look at your original thread and see the little lock symbol. That tells you.  But you can continue to discuss as you wish!

Warmly,
Gems

[cash05458]

Thanks Gems... I saw the lock and prolly triggered abandonment issues yet again...joking of course...but new here...

wondering if me understanding this more...leads to me wanting to to "explain" to her what is maybe going on with her...it's there, as a last "chance" to save (for myself and weakness...)

That is wrong as I don't need to explain anything to her...she is going to do what she is going to do no matter the insight suggested...there is my hero thing popping out in a way to save myself from dealing with the harsh reality ...so will not do that...I will not be doing that.

Your talk of that "voice"...hit me...in a good way of course Gems...it may still be there and be less...but realize for now, I need to override it...almost deal with it like is some "other" if that makes sense...i.e. not act or respond...and trust via the long term that that voice will quiet down or even go away and I get my own feedback o fself via all this...the quiet...that I can have moods or impulses and they are ok and part of this and god knows, I have taken some heavy heavy shots to self here at end via her things...but not to listen or how shall I say? maybe make executive decisions for self to ignore... override...and work on self and give self chance to understand and not simply respond to moods or that voice...none of that prolly makes any sense and comes off like inner babble maybe...but I do know I want something DIFFERENT with myself and these dynamics...and I realize I cant click my fingers and make it that way...but I want, I desire that...me trying to take care of her, or US...had been terrible for me...it bled me out and that isnt even her fault...it was our dynamic...and she has found a new one to repeat her pain and loss...a new hero...it was my not looking at my own self for so long and going into my hero stuff and repetitions...I want to take care of me...I want something other than this...

[cash05458]

thoughts to self here for anyone...trying to process...am processing actually I hope...

let it go down...let it go down in flames if need be...it is needed...but let it go down...'Be" in flames if you can...don't try to fix, dont try to give advice to the other even tho you do see the real "truth" that is playing out into endless repetition and failure for all involved...you can be intelligent and know everything going on, every angle and how it will play out...but "knowing" doesn't change anything...knowing can get in the way of things and leads sometimes to more failures as it is control...knowing isn't understanding sometimes via the real things...you know you are extremely intelligent and everyone has told you that your whole life...but that hasn't gotten you anywhere in the important things to you...but that that  that is going down now via her isn't your business...nor should it have been ever...that it was, led to this...you didn't help via your own dynamics... as they were inherently faulty as well from your own past...and when it finally has been burned down entirely on every level for self...don't try to build anything like a little beautiful  sculpture from those embers, even in memory...brush the embers away and move forward or even backwards if need be...but move and change and deal and be in flames...

[crushedagain]

BPDs don't fall in love with who we are, but who they want us to be. Then reality appears (you and I aren't perfect people who can deliver them from emptiness and fear) and they find someone else to hide from their core wounds.

This is a very succinct way to put it, and something I'd like to say to my BPDexgf if she ever tried to recycle me again (doubtful). I think there could be no greater satisfaction and closure than telling her this:

"You never loved me, you loved the idea of what you thought I could provide you to help you to escape your emptiness. Never once were my needs even so much as a thought to you. It was ALL ABOUT YOU. You consumed everything you could from me and then you discarded me like a used paper plate. It's goodbye forever from me, because you are not a person who offers me anything. When I think of the kind of woman I am looking for, you are at the bottom of the list."

That would feel amazing.

[cash05458]

Crushed...I agree...not that it even needs to be said as it brings up more crap...maybe we need to say that to self for now...and then maybe later when they try to return?  But I for one am so exhausted and tired of trying to understand their side...that side has been a dead end (for me)...a  cul de sac that cirles back to the same old stuff...us being obsessed with them...its time now and enough I hope...this will sound harsh, but F++k them and their "feelings"...we have feelings as well and at a certain angle for us, those are more important...I'm really done with being a good guy and mr. understanding...with her...I can be a good guy in right thing...or alone...actually I was a good guy while alone..and have been many times for years...but I am tired of being the nice guy...period...I will be a nice guy when it is warranted and real ...and that will be up to her...not just me...it will be because she needs  that in a real way and not from her pain...I am sick now from the pain of the last...and tired and hopefully done... sure, I had my hand in it...and my own failures via self...but f===k it...I am really done with undertaking the other for now...

[crushedagain]

Yeah, no more Mr. Nice Guy from me either. During the 2 years she lived with me I never once confronted her about her issues. Only once during one of her meltdowns did I suggest going to therapy. I essentially "went with it," meaning I just tried to navigate the thing and accept she had flaws and was an overly emotional person.

It's good she has not contacted me or run into me, because it's a different man she'd get now. The gloves are off, so to speak, and I don't hold a high opinion of her. I was always kind, compassionate and caring. That ship sailed. I'd look at her with pity and a small dose of contempt. If there was any person in the world I'd like to, just once, make a snide comment to, it's her. It probably sounds petty, but I am just being honest.

[cash05458]

Crushed...I dont think there is anything petty at all about speaking your mind...and when done...defending self and hurt and letting them know...PLEASE READ it...why not...we took enough...I am done with understanding the other side...I am not interested in that ...if I did feel that way I would want her back...I don't...you don't either...you can only justify so much via the giving one...or the I am here for you thing...it becomes self  abuse to be too kind... mine wrote me tonight asking how I am...I told her: PLEASE READ you, I dont need this and your bs...here is what I think...you are going to fail yet again...that is your game...via us, I won't...I am tired of everything about your problems...I have my own and via you and us, I didn't do well...it didnt help you at all...and it PLEASE READed me up...I lost myself...you are lost and keep going if that is your only move...perhaps that is the only thing you can do...but I am done...and I am tired of being the bad guy, hen i am not...period...enough of this PLEASE READ...take it to another and she has...

[cash05458]

sorry for the garbled note...me speaking aloud to her in my head etc...apologies...

[brighter future]

Cash,

I'm glad to hear that you stood up to her and all of that nonsense. It's too bad that it had to come to that, but a person can only take so much abuse. Even after that, I bet you haven't heard the last from her.

I really liked the reply that grumpydonut wrote you yesterday. Even though my breakup occurred 8.5 months ago, reading posts like that helps put things into perspective and keeps me on track. I also liked your statement/analogy  about how these people can move on immediately at the end of a relationship with someone new like nothing ever happened. When I asked my ex how she could do that after telling me I was the "man of her dreams", "the best man I've ever dated", etc. she told me "I don't know. I can't answer that. I don't have the energy for any questions. I've got nothing left to say." BPD behavior is so bizarre. For instance, the day after our split, she went into a lengthy public tirade on Facebook about her ex-husband that she divorced just over a year earlier. I found it odd that her anger was directed towards him that day when she and I had broken up the day before. Her ex-husband remarried a few months ago. A mutual friend told me that my ex has become Facebook friends with her ex-husband's new wife. The mutual friend told me that my ex has been posting rude and obnoxious things about her ex-husband on the new wife's page. How disrespectful and what terrible boundaries. What the h#ll?

Part of me really wanted to let her have it much like you did with your ex because her responses to me were so cold and showed me that she ultimately didn't give a PLEASE READ about my feelings. The only reason I didn't do that is because her parents have been neighbors and friends of mine for over 20 years. I didn't want any trouble with them. A few days after our breakup, her mother told me "__________ wouldn't have survived these last couple of years with out you. Her dad and I hoped that you two could work things out." Now more than likely, she's sucking the life out of this other guy. 

[cash05458]

Brighter...thanks...yes, I too found Grumpy's post so helpful...just very precise and spot on.

Well, no matter my words to her, I know they won't have any effect...it really is like she is under a spell...just in one ear and out the proverbial other...in fact, got an email from her this morning "hope you are doing ok"...ect...Gems is right: they don't want to hear what they have done to us and the repercussions of their acts...they don't want to hear about the pain they caused.

Today marks one month from the time she took off...it's been quite a month I have to say...I think back to right after she roared out of here and  then noticing on the computer a tab left there..."a virtual tour of cornwall"...

[brighter future]

Well, no matter my words to her, I know they won't have any effect...it really is like she is under a spell...just in one ear and out the proverbial other...in fact, got an email from her this morning "hope you are doing ok"...ect...Gems is right: they don't want to hear what they have done to us and the repercussions of their acts...they don't want to hear about the pain they caused.

It's sad, but they don't have the emotional capacity to care about anyone but themselves. Isn't it funny though how they want to stay in touch after wreaking all of this havoc on us?  Keeping us on the hook just gives them another attachment/host if we allow it. Attachments can be anyone: a spouse, significant other, family member, a child, neighbor,  and even health care providers and and therapists. Both my ex-wife and ex-g/f were (and still are) obsessed with having more children even though they don't have the mental capacity or financial ability to take care of any additional children. I recall something my ex-wife said to me shortly before we separated. She was laying in a hospital bed with a feeding tube down her throat emaciated from Anorexia and Bulimia. Our child was barely one year old at the time. My ex-wife said to me, "I want to start having more children as soon as possible." Her healthcare providers told me at that time that if she couldn't get her illness under control that "this will kill her". As I told you the other day, my daughter said my ex-wife was throwing up blood a few months ago, no doubt from all the years of the eating disorder and abusing her body. It's just total madness.

Like another member here told me last year, "BDP's love attachments. The more the merrier, and all are invited to play."  My ex-g/f asked if we could be friends and stay in touch after she unleashed all of her BS on me. I never even acknowledged that when she said it. A month later is when I went NC, then she started contacting me 4.5 months later. They just don't get it.

[cash05458]

Brighter, I am sorry to hear about the eating disorder..that is terrible and must have made it much harder on you to split with her. I can imagine the protective part of you wanted to do anything to save her...I would think the protective part of you would be very ramped up...what strength you  showed in not allowing that to bring her back into your life. I really admire that.

I get frightened that even now, after all she has done, and it was extreme...I find the feeling floating thru me: maybe just write her and try to talk...try to work this out...I miss her very much.

But I don't allow myself and won't...and I try not to beat myself up for  having those thoughts once in a bit and am just trying to see it as part of the process I must go through...I do miss her I am ashamed to say...but I don't want her back...and I know I have to hold to that no matter what...otherwise I will never heal or change for myself...if I took her back I would be agreeing to endless repetitions on both our parts...   

[cash05458]

ack...I can't tell you how much I hate facebook...and what she is doing there...I live in a very small town in Vermont...a neighbor just drove me down to our little grocery store to pick up some items...now my ex was a school teacher here in town and everyone knows her and me...it's a small place...and I swear she has a half of the town as friends on facebook...

Anyhow, in the store three separate people came up to me (all women, which was interesting in their responses...) "Christ, are you ok? What on earth is going on...I have been thinking about you...it is just incredible what she is doing on facebook...England? Please...she has obviously snapped and had a mental breakdown...she has completely lost her mind... "

All three said around this same thing more or less...also interesting, all three of these women are very kind souls...but tough country folk...and all three basically told me that they hoped I would never let her return and to move on...and that they would never give her the time of day if she did return or respond to anything she says again to them on facebook... two actually defriended her already they told me...they were scathing...

Not only did she figuratively set me and our house on fire and take off...it seems like she burned down any chance of being accepted back here by many in our little village...

As I have not been out hardly at all...I have to admit I liked the backup I received in a manner of sorts...or hearing their impressions...

That said, that they even all know because she is playing this out in front of everyone really gets to me...I would never thrash these sorta things out in public...about us or if I had a new relationship...never...I guess it's just another instance of her exploding boundaries...

[grumpydonut]

"You never loved me, you loved the idea of what you thought I could provide you to help you to escape your emptiness. Never once were my needs even so much as a thought to you. It was ALL ABOUT YOU. You consumed everything you could from me and then you discarded me like a used paper plate. It's goodbye forever from me, because you are not a person who offers me anything. When I think of the kind of woman I am looking for, you are at the bottom of the list."

Crushed,

From what I have read, that would play into the disorder and only make her feel more justified in everything she has done - it allows you to be the oppressor, making her the victim. You're being mean to "poor old" her because you're a bad man.

Don't get me wrong, I have had similar fantasies should my ex return to me, but if she ever does I'm going to react in opposite fashion.

If they come back, and we act nicely and politely turn them down / create a boundary, their disorder must wrestle with the fact that they are the problem. They can't feel like a victim if you don't victimise them, and thus they feel shame and guilt at what your goodness to someone who treated them so poorly shows THEM to be.

[grumpydonut]

Not only did she figuratively set me and our house on fire and take off...it seems like she burned down any chance of being accepted back here by many in our little village...

Cash, you have just summarised the tragedy that is BPD. Wanting to be loved and accepted, only to have their instability cause them to be hated and abandoned.

[cash05458]

Grumpy, thanks...Yes, she loved our little town and the folks here...they really accepted her when she arrived 6 years ago...everyone adored her as a local teacher...it was surprising to hear how scathing these women were over her facebook stuff and the whole moving to england stuff and all of her behaviors she herself put right out on facebook for all to see...and the thing  is, I would never have told any of these folks about this stuff...I am just not like that...these are private things between a couple...but as she did it so publicly on facebook they knew it all and made their judgements...that was entirely her own doing...she won't be coming back...but lets say she wanted to...she even burned those kinda of small town bridges she seemed to cherish so much...it almost seems like she did it purposefully...

[cash05458]

I posted this on another page but wanted it here just to keep it a little more confined...

Grumpy, thank you...

Yes, even the tone of her voice changed I noticed...and it wasn't like I had even mentioned going to england or brought it up...it just came out of her...and then "you will never stop me" etc...I merely said, I am not trying to stop you...you have to do what you want...but you have to also realize your actions will have serious repercussions via our relationship"...to which she responded the same thing as above...more forcefully... it was almost as if she were having a conversation with some other...again, I had the feeling she was speaking to me like a Father as the angry rebellious teen... as if "you can never stop me from seeing him daddy..." etc...

And this fits. the very start of this whole recent depression began about 3 months ago...her older cousin died suddenly...just dropped dead of a heart attack...had been seemingly healthy...but this was not just any cousin...the was a man who knew her father when he was young and was like a brother to him, adored her father (who died when she was 5 and then Mom ran off and disappeared to be a junkie and she was put in an orphanage)...so this cousin had in real life become like a father surrogate...he was her last and only remaining tie to her long dead father... she changed right at that moment...even the look in her eyes...adn this cousin did in fact act like a father to her, helping her very greatly at various times in her life, even as an adult...they were very very close...

And then three weeks later, the work conflict occurred...which I have described...charging her school publicly on facebook about covid things...it was terrible...writing privately to parents, getting fired and then a no trespassing notice arrived via the police from her former school...and that fits as well, she always described her work mates as "family" and behaved that way...and she treated the Directors especially like parent figures...even tho they were younger than she...and that become a huge betrayal to her...one going far beyond losing a job...

And then of course, three weeks after that and her leaving me for this other and completely destroying everything and me in her wake...even abandoning her own cats here as well (a small thing...but again, she described them as "family")...likewise, destroying her small community bonds she had here which she described as "family" as well.

The "split"...is me becoming the "bad father" and the new man as being the Good one, the Savoir for a new life and redemption...of course, that is all fantasy...but it explains to me how this all took place, literally, "in the blink of an eye"...

It is all starting to make much more sense to me now...the Cousin's sudden death was the trigger...and not only is this a reaction to father issues...I also think there is something going on via her Mother, who ran off and abandoned her...much as she is now abandoning everything from her past life here...

I wonder if any of this insight would ever be of use to a BDP going thru this at the time...or even later...if that would even be possible for them to take in while it is occurring or if the fantasy stemming from the original trauma has taken such strong hold that they MUST stay under it's spell and merely let it play out til its inevitable ending...that leaves out my drive that providing such insight would just be another part of my own drive to save..to be the one who provides the guiding insight...that is my pattern I know...

[brighter future]

I get frightened that even now, after all she has done, and it was extreme...I find the feeling floating thru me: maybe just write her and try to talk...try to work this out...I miss her very much.

But I don't allow myself and won't...and I try not to beat myself up for  having those thoughts once in a bit and am just trying to see it as part of the process I must go through...I do miss her I am ashamed to say...but I don't want her back...and I know I have to hold to that no matter what...otherwise I will never heal or change for myself...if I took her back I would be agreeing to endless repetitions on both our parts...   

Please don't be ashamed to admit that you miss her. This is a very common emotion. I still miss my ex-g/f terribly some days, but those days are becoming less and less frequent. I know as time passes, you will experience this as well.   Like you, I know if I ever allowed her back into my life, that would mean an endless cycle of unhealthy behavior.

You've seen me post a lot about the contact I've had from her since last September and how it's affected me in a negative way. I'll admit that there is a small part of me that was glad about hearing from her. After her abrupt and irrational departure from my life, this contact showed that she still thinks about me even though I know her motives are unhealthy. When she left me, she gave me the impression that she didn't care any longer by her choice of words.

When I left my ex-wife 7.5 years ago, I did it to protect our child from my ex's eating disorders and suicidal behavior. Not only was my ex-wife obsessed with food and what she ate, she carried this over to our child. When I left my ex-wife, our child was in the 5th percentile in regards to her weight. It was an awful situation.  My attorney recommended that I also file for divorce in addition to sole temporary custody. I told the attorney just to file for temporary custody and to hold off on the divorce in hopes that my ex-wife would improve after inpatient therapy. She never improved (still is in and out of treatment to this day) and filed for divorce on me after I filed the petition for sole custody. Between the divorce and custody matter, it dragged out in court from 2013 until Summer of 2019. I was drained financially and emotionally during that time, but at least my child stayed safe. Fortunately, I still have majority custody to this day.  She is a happy and healthy child that makes straight A's in school.

I saw you speak further down about your ex's over the top and irrational social media posts. I have also experienced this with my ex-wife and ex-g/f. A while back, I spoke to my therapist about this, and she said this type of behavior is the mental illness coming out, which is  all part of the BPD self-loathing complex.


I hope you have a peaceful and productive day today.

[cash05458]

Brighter, thank you for that note...I am so glad to hear the things with the child...a 6 year drain on that shows incredible courage and strenght...and that it turned out best for the child in the end...well, that is so deeply important. I admire you for that very very much...

Interesting comment as well that you passed on from your therapist about the social media behaviors...makes perfect sense to my situation...to me, her facebook posts are double edged...on the one hand to bulwark the new fantasy she has become submerged inside of and also to destroy the past and its ties...in this instance to the little village she lived in here for so long and had become so important to her...another instance of "family" as I said... 

Brighter, I hope you as well have a good and productive day...thank you for our talks here...they have helped...

[brighter future]

Interesting comment as well that you passed on from your therapist about the social media behaviors...makes perfect sense to my situation...to me, her facebook posts are double edged...on the one hand to bulwark the new fantasy she has become submerged inside of and also to destroy the past and its ties...in this instance to the little village she lived in here for so long and had become so important to her...another instance of "family" as I said... 

Brighter, I hope you as well have a good and productive day...thank you for our talks here...they have helped...

You're welcome. I'm glad to hear that our conversation has helped you. It helps me as well being able to share my experiences and keeps me on track.

Yes, I thought the statements that my therapist made about the BPD social media posts was very insightful. From both of my exes, I have seen social media posts of rage and also posts like they were straight out of fantasy land.

For instance, about 5  months ago a mutual friend of my ex-g/f and I made a post about sticking with the people that will "cross an ocean for you" and leaving behind those that won't "jump a puddle for you." Of course my ex had to reply to the mutual friend's post by saying that she, after all of these years, "Has finally found the person that will cross an ocean for me" referring to her newfound love. Keep in mind, this is the person that told me a couple of years prior that this same guy was a "drunk with no job, no car, and was just left by his wife. Our quick relationship was a rebound for me and meant nothing. He was one of four guys that contacted me after my separation from ________, and all four tried to talk me into things that made me uncomfortable. My relationship with him was unhealthy for both of us. You are one of only two guys that I've ever dated that's never asked me to do anything like that." For now the roles have changed, and this guy is her new savior. I never did buy into all of what she said because she consented to sex with him. She was a willing participant and was taking full advantage of it until I came along a while later. It's interesting because as I am typing this to you I just noticed something about her.  I looked out my kitchen window a few minutes ago and saw she's next door visiting at her parent's house. My employer has me and other fellow employees working remotely at home due to the virus at this.

My ex-wife would sometimes go into rages on Facebook while we were in the middle of the legal battles for custody and divorce (they were heard separately). One particular incident I remember was a day or two prior to one of the custody hearings. She never named me by name in her post, but she alleged that the devil was working through me because I took legal action because of how her illnesses were affecting our child. During this rant, she quoted several verses of scripture to back up her madness. Those are days that I'd like to erase from my memory. It was a struggle some days just to get up and go into work.

[cash05458]

one of the last things I will add to reading what occurred here with her...the cousin I mentioned who had become a father to her and the past, who died a few months ago...his name was RIchard...well, the new man's name is the same...Richard...

[once removed]

i locked and split your thread. threads are normally locked at two pages or around 30 posts. some get past us. i think your thread was five pages when i split it.

That is something that I am thinking about, hurting about...and I am seeing the exact same beginning as we had play out, only with another...the total overevaluation, the love bombing, the total belief...as if she is simply under a spell...and it is not that I want to stop her at this point...but that leaves me feeling...well, not sure how that leaves me feeling exactly...

part of detaching, for me, was realizing that "i was special, but not that special".

and then putting perspective behind it.

my ex was looking for someone new for, im pretty positive, a good two or three months before we broke up. the writing was on the wall for our relationship for longer than that. i was very unaware of that at the time, and, at the time, breaking up was the last thing i wanted to. it almost always is, for the person on the receiving end.

my ex and i were together for nearly (not quite) 3 years. we were special to each other. i havent spoken to her since, but i suspect she would agree. she was my first real adult relationship. we shared many firsts. i was her longest relationship at the time, and she was mine, by FAR. the way she ended it and jumped into another relationship wouldnt suggest that, at all. and that, obviously, made me feel pretty lousy for a very long time. i dont think anyone goes through your circumstances cash, and doesnt feel that way.

at the same time, we were young and dumb. we had more problems than i had the maturity to see at the time. we said lots of nice, loving words. i dont think we had the maturity to mean them till death did us part, as much as we meant them at the time.

but we said them, at the time, and they meant something to us, at the time. in my detaching process, i made them mean less, but ultimately, with no pain any longer associated, they do mean something to me to this day. it was an important, and special relationship. it was not my last, not even close. ive said a lot of special, sincere words to the women that have been in my life. id also be lying if i didnt admit, ive used some good lines on multiple girlfriends.

one of the hardest parts of breaking up is letting go of the words, and letting go of what we, at one time, meant to the other person, because, at the end of the day, if a breakup happens, and frankly even if it doesnt, that changes. and that really hurts to do, but you must realize at the end of the day, you werent just the greatest most wonderful man in the world (to her), you were also the worst (to her), and detaching is about letting go of and grieving both, and finding the truth in the middle.

[cash05458]

thanks Once...yeah, it's been tough...and being older, feel like I should know better...but hopefully will get there as you have...god, I hate this...

[brighter future]

one of the last things I will add to reading what occurred here with her...the cousin I mentioned who had become a father to her and the past, who died a few months ago...his name was RIchard...well, the new man's name is the same...Richard...

That is odd. I can't remember if you mentioned his age before, but is his age similar to your ex, or is he older?

The guy that my ex-g/f went to right after she left me (and before me) is the identical twin brother of her high school sweetheart.  They dated 18-20 years ago. She described the high school sweetheart to me as her "first love" and the fist guy she was with intimately. The mutual friends that she and I have tell me that it's like she is living in a high school fantasy with the twin brother in the present tense. Now she's had both brothers, and I think this feeds her ego to some degree. I would think that this would create an awkward situation at least from my perspective.

When I told you the other day about some BPD insight that therapist gave me, I forgot to include this. She told me that she has a female client with BPD that she's been working with on and off. If I remember correctly, she said this woman is in her late 20's or 30's. My therapist tells me that her BPD is pretty severe, and she will not stay consistent with her therapy and constantly cancels appointments. At times a month or two will go by before she sees her again. During one particular appointment, this woman broke down and said, I hate myself for doing the things I do. Why do I do  these awful things to people and myself?  My therapist told her, You can get better if you truly want have the desire to. First and foremost, you need to be consistent with your treatment and show up to therapy regularly. She said that she hasn't seen her since. This sounds kind of like my ex-g/f. My ex-wife, on the other hand, loves therapy and shows up regularly. However, her behavior never changes. The psychologist that did the forensic evaluation said she has done years of therapy but has made no significant changes in her life. He said it was his belief that she enjoyed being a patient because that role gives her consistent attention and more attachments.