Help undoing lies told by STBX to S7

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

As I navigate the new life with my S while going through a divorce with uBPDW I am struggling to know how to approach some of what is going on in my S head. Earlier today I was talking to my S after he was acting out during a visit from my brother and his kids. The behavior wasn’t too concerning, but I know he has some underlying anger over our new situation. As we talked I asked him about this anger. He acknowledged it and said he wished that we could be a family again. He wishes he could be with his mom and doesn’t understand why the visits are to be supervised. All of this is to be expected. Then he started to echo some of the things his mom says about me, including saying that this is my fault. He said I was a liar. When I asked him why he thinks I’m a liar, he couldn’t come up with an explanation. He then said it was because of the times I said I would do something for STBX but didn’t. This was an ongoing complaint of hers. Most of the time the things I didn’t do were complicated by another factor, which she never wanted to hear or accept. Now getting back to my S parroting the things STBX says or has said about me. I don’t know if there’s much to be done about that now. He’s 7 so he doesn’t quite understand the complexities that got us here. Also, I think he’s trying to think back to what he saw and heard; usually her mad at me for something I did or didn’t do. Her words were frequent as was her anger. So I think he is trying to make sense of this situation right now, and it may be easier to correlate her anger at me (indicating that I must have done something to anger her) with me following the rules of the NC and keeping him from being with her, factor in the times she has made comments about this being my fault and it’s easy to see why he might agree with that point of view.
I hope I’m not rambling too much.

Basically, I know that he will feel many emotions throughout the divorce process and for some time afterwards. I encourage him to share his feelings and not to try and hold them back. And he may express them as anger, which at times may be directed towards me. But I don’t want her to poison his thoughts of me. I make sure not to disparage her, and it appears she’s not sticking to that part of the NC. I will continue to work with my T as will he. But do any of you have any tips on handling this? Any tips on how to talk to my S about these lies?

[RestlessWanderer]

As I navigate the new life with my S while going through a divorce with uBPDW I am struggling to know how to approach some of what is going on in my S head. Earlier today I was talking to my S after he was acting out during a visit from my brother and his kids. The behavior wasn’t too concerning, but I know he has some underlying anger over our new situation. As we talked I asked him about this anger. He acknowledged it and said he wished that we could be a family again. He wishes he could be with his mom and doesn’t understand why the visits are to be supervised. All of this is to be expected. Then he started to echo some of the things his mom says about me, including saying that this is my fault. He said I was a liar. When I asked him why he thinks I’m a liar, he couldn’t come up with an explanation. He then said it was because of the times I said I would do something for STBX but didn’t. This was an ongoing complaint of hers. Most of the time the things I didn’t do were complicated by another factor, which she never wanted to hear or accept. Now getting back to my S parroting the things STBX says or has said about me. I don’t know if there’s much to be done about that now. He’s 7 so he doesn’t quite understand the complexities that got us here. Also, I think he’s trying to think back to what he saw and heard; usually her mad at me for something I did or didn’t do. Her words were frequent as was her anger. So I think he is trying to make sense of this situation right now, and it may be easier to correlate her anger at me (indicating that I must have done something to anger her) with me following the rules of the NC and keeping him from being with her, factor in the times she has made comments about this being my fault and it’s easy to see why he might agree with that point of view.
I hope I’m not rambling too much.

Basically, I know that he will feel many emotions throughout the divorce process and for some time afterwards. I encourage him to share his feelings and not to try and hold them back. And he may express them as anger, which at times may be directed towards me. But I don’t want her to poison his thoughts of me. I make sure not to disparage her, and it appears she’s not sticking to that part of the NC. I will continue to work with my T as will he. But do any of you have any tips on handling this? Any tips on how to talk to my S about these lies?

[I Am Redeemed]

I know that LNL and Kells frequently recommend a few resources her relating to this, including Divorce Poison by Warshak, Don't Alienate the Kids by Eddy, and anything by Dr. Craig Childress.

Divorce Poison

Don't Alienate the Kids

https://bpdfamily.com/content/parental-alienation.

[RestlessWanderer]

Thanks you Redeemed. I had a rough day yesterday. I think I’m experiencing some BPD overload. I have to take a break from reading and thinking about this situation. It’s really bringing me down. Thankfully my T and L help bring me out of my funk.

[formflier]

For now...validate the emotions, listen and be there for your kid...

I can't imagine "countering" the lies without a specifically trained child therapist involved.  Just too many minefields to do it yourself...

And really...the purpose of therapy isn't to counter the lies...it's to help him process this in a healthy...age appropriate way.  That the lies get countered is just a bonus.

Hang in there...

Best,

FF

[worriedStepmom]

Is your son in counseling?  It might really help him to have someone neutral.

It's hard to hear the bad stuff come from your kid.  Really hard.  It's critical, though, to focus on validation of his emotions and not engage with the content of what he's saying.  "Sounds like you are really mad right now."   "Wow, how does it make you feel when you hear stuff like X?"  etc.

Validation doesn't come naturally to most of us.  It takes a lot of work.
And, for 7 year olds, identifying emotions doesn't come naturally either.  It takes work to teach them the names of what they are feeling and help redirect it in a healthy way (so that not all bad feelings are anger).

You might ask your lawyer to make sure there is a "no disparagement" clause in your final custody agreement.  Since she has supervised visitation, it might also be worth asking if the lawyer can instruct the supervisors to put a stop to that kind of language.  It's abusive.

[CoherentMoose]

RW,
"Put your mask on first" is used a lot in here.  As part of navigating your new world, please make time for self care so you can be your best for your son as much a humanly possible.  It's OK to have down days, it happens to all of us.  Be well.  CoMo

[RestlessWanderer]

I spoke with my T about this situation and he reminded me that validation can be the most powerful response. I also spoke with his T and she wasn’t too concerned. She looked at it this way, he is expressing his feelings, which is very important, and talking to me about them, also very important. He’s angry about what’s happening, which is totally expected. Despite the fact that he echoed what his mom has said he also shows self-awareness and does seem to consider his experience in how he’s processing this. What I mean by that is he has also talked about what he has seen and how it contradicts her words. For example he has seen me work hard to take care of the family, which contradicts her saying that I don’t care about anyone but myself.
Last night I was talking to him about how he’s been treating my mom lately. He’s been a little disrespectful and impatient with her. It’s been happening frequently and he hasn’t been showing her much love. As we were talking I tried to get him to tap into his empathy, which he’s in touch with. In one example, he had been responding to my mom in a way that showed his impatience with her if she was asking about something that he’s interested in. He would talk to her like she was stupid for not knowing anything about the thing. So last night I asked him if he knew what it feels like to be talked to that way, and if anyone had ever talked to him like that. He said he knew what it felt like because he had heard his mom talk to me like that.

That immediately changed the tone of the conversation. The power of that correlation was a bit staggering. We weren’t talking about his moms behavior at all. I made sure not to lead him in any way either. In fact I haven’t talked about her behavior at all since we have been staying with my mom. But on his own he was able to find an example of that type of condescension from his personal experience. I thought he would come up with an example from school, a bigger kid or something. I didn’t expect him to say that.

That moment really reminded me that I am absolutely doing the right thing. It’s been more than a month since he’s had to listen to his mom berate me. Every day without that is rebuilding his understanding of how people are supposed to behave.

[mart555]

doesn’t understand why the visits are to be supervised.

Definitely document all of this somewhere, and by a 3rd party would be even better (therapist?).  That definitely seems like stuff that the mom would say, I doubt that he really cares if the visits are supervised or not..

[Waddams]

I had a few discussions with my now S16 (he was 4 at the time) after getting coached thru it by both my T and his play therapist. Basically, empathy and then asking questions about why he feels what he feels, and also asking what did he feel i could have done differently then, and then what could i do differently now.

in every circumstance, he realized there really wasn't much. he very quickly softened and stopped paying attention to his mom's lies and distortions. then i coached him how to react when she started saying those things again, which was non-response, don't fight her, don't challenge her, not his role to protect me.

before too long, she gave up her campaign with him, and him and i are rather tight today. he still does 50/50 time, but i fear i might have been "too effective" as when he talks about his mother, his comments are usually directed at how full BS she usually is. he disregards her a lot these days and i wonder how much devaluing is happening there. but at the same time, his mom really is a waif type BPD, manipulator, and liar, and is always simply full of BS.  It's hard to tell him he's got to take her more seriously, respect her more, and not disregard when she genuinely has earned the way he considers her.